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CLS Attack: Slash Aggresive: Slash Controlled: Stab Defensive: Slash Crapier Attack: Stab Nobody uses anything else because they need the increased accuracy on chickens. Not a loaded post at all. Not at all...

They didn't prove to us botting was a problem nor have they proved that they can't limit bots. Seeing bots is not what this update is about, it's their impact, and i have not seen proof of yew botting directly changing the game in any special way. If the bots don't make an impact, they have little reason to make them a priority, meanwhile, they are still keeping up their policy of mostly banning money buyers. The other thing, as we know, is that we really need to look at ourselves. If we don't use our money to get an advantage in game, rwt will certainly not increase. I have yet to see any huge rwt protest by those worrying about the increasing amount of rwt-ing they expect this update to deliver.

But why did you trust jagex when they said the removal of free trade was necessary 3 years ago, but totally dismiss their claims now? Sure, rwt will increase, but if they've added extra detection for rwt, free trade will allow for MUCH easier detection of free money transfer(currently all trades are ''balanced''). Additionally they may have done some research into how to keep people away from the game if they get banned for continuous botting- we can't just factually claim rwt/botting will run rampant, but it's lilkely it will increase slightly. For all the trouble with bots, the amount of high level content that will be released is HUGE(pking, staking and trading expensive items).

You'll cry about anything, won't ya? It's not as though only the supporters are the only ones against can vote on all accounts, everyone can vote on every account they have, so it's fair. Otherwise you'd just be dismissing people who have taken the time to make and train multiple accounts. Why should some of my accounts get a premium over the others when they were all created many years before the change(i realize that new accounts shouldn't be able to vote, but that's about really the only restriction).

It's not really about weather it's hard to not get scammed or not. The newschool people have been spoon-fed for so long that they can't even imagine picking up the spoon and shoving food down their throats. That's basically what all the whining is about.

Voted yes on 8 accounts(all pre 2007, by the way). Gud stuffs. It's funny that every pker has many(and usually alot of) accounts as you pk-ed at different levels and so on. How many accounts do skillers have? Yeah, they should definitely keep PVP worlds. I've always loved the idea of them. Wasn't very popular and it wasn't there for a long time in classic. In classic, for a short while at the start, every world was essentially a pvp world.

Jebrim, you don't have to train it all the time, you can fill the horn and empty it, and then wait for others to have completed theirs while you do other things. The goal is 200m in all skills, not 1b agility.

i guess when his friends/supporters who are pretty much merchers and most of them are quite rich donate 100m each per month he can do the most expensive methods easily, i mean he wont care even if its blood money ;-) Well, i think you could categorize a top player dungeoneering with a great keyer a similar unfair advantage, but on a smaller scale. Having friends means something too, particularly on a multiplayer online game.

Free trade I don't care one way or the other about it. The "old" Wilderness, otoh, I don't want back and here's my reason: I never died to a PKer who *wasn't* looking for an easy kill. I know I'm risking death out there and that's fine. I accepted it, took only minimum clue items (lined up ready to drop when attacked) or a knife if I was running agility. PKers looking for a actual fight never found me; always the ones who wanted to kill someone for the sake of killing. Pkers always used to kill no itemers because of the chance of receiving something good. There were alot of occasions when people made a fortune doing that, even a few phat kills and so on(some people even open tt caskets in the wildy...). I doubt any of those pkers were really out to kill no itemers, but when they spot them, there is no reason not to attack. It's not as though revs work any differently. I'm sure if most of them met another pker/team, they would have fought, but it's your assumption which makes them cheap.

Second that. How the f does this belong in GD? I put it in Off topic first, but it was moved here because it had to do with runescape. As for Madara being much beyond 85 slayer, I know that, I was just saying 85 slayer could deal with his teleportation. His other skills? Good luck RS character! The basilisk is a good example from other movies. 40 slayer, lol, HP must be higher by now. I think the problem lies in taking some information for granted. I, and i believe atleast some others, have no clue about what Madara or something else is, thus the point of the topic mostly gets lost.

What? who proved that? as far as i've seen proof of a multi-weaponed team equations, maul, warhammer and dagger are always obsolete no matter what, while spear and longsword are usually obsolete aswell. Basically, what you want is a weapon with two attack styles being able to use berserker, and that can only be achieved by 2h, battleaxe and rapier.

Fix'd. Honestly this vote is perhaps the worst thing to happen. It has split the community directly in 2. Those PKers and old school people with rose tinted specs who think they want it back, and those that are crying out for fairness and a No vote. Tbh I love it how when I made a topic on RSOF the other day about the vote being pathetic that all the PKers tried to justify it by saying they never get updates and are basically JaGeX's [female dogs]. Maybe they are and the PVM community do get the better deal out of it all. But this is a completely game changing decision that only works backwards from where they are now. Personally I never played old wildy, I didn't even have the internet until 2 years ago as parents didn't want it, or need it. But from everything I hear from my friends who played with old wildy and free trade and from here I can only see it being bad and quite frankly as someone said in one of the very early pages - being the death knell for runescape showing that JaGeX have lost the war against bots and RWTers. I also find it funny that so far even though there's been perhaps every 7 out of 10 topics on the RSOF against it, no one and I repeat NO ONE has gone so far to say - We pay we say, unlike the PKers who continually tell us to shut up. Free trade yes, I'd be fine with, it'd be nice. Old Wildy? Get stuffed. I lose all shreds of respect for JaGeX if this vote goes through. You realize that you are just making a huge case for why the vote should be one-sided only? Basically you are hating pk-ers just because, which is disgraceful. As we can see from the tipit vote, again, it's not as though a clear majority is against this.

If it isn't good for you, you are against it. That's basically what he is saying.

There is no realistic way of determining if the played did use those features weather they vote yes or no, but there is a way of saying this person may have been using those features and that another person couldn't have been. In any case, looking at the tip it vote(primarily a skiling community), we have a pretty good outlook of how the big picture would pan out, thus it'd be stupid to argue that if there were equal yes and no options, the no option would lead. That's what i'm thinking. People are basically being inconsistent in their opinions in that they trusted jagex when they canned free trade(and most of the high level content at the time), but doubt jagex now when they may change it back. It'd rather make sense if those people agreed that the removal of free trade wasn't the answer in combating rwt-ing, thus it should be brought back and other means should be introduced to prevent botting/rwt. Another thing people should be looking at is themselves. Money doesn't buy itself, as we all know. If we want the game to be better, we have to be better ourselves(and not blame everything on jagex).

They can still vote on the account created before 2007 so i can't see a problem there...

1 year plus would be useless. If there was a real vote it'd only make sense if people who REALLY used those features and know what they were about could vote- set the limit at account created before 1. january 2007. Right now, most of the people voting no just didn't know what those features were about, thus there are reasons the current voting system makes sense. It is not a strict vote to determine the next prime minister, rather a popularity vote to see how many people find the page and put their name in the hat to support the idea, and if there is alot of buzz around the idea(as we can all see there is) the vote is a success.

You can buy money too. It's quite easy. Buy a crashing merch item for min at the GE, sell to RWTer for trade price. Repeat until you have the cash you bought. Switch to another item if necessary. The way the GE stubbornly sticks to its trade price regardless of demand makes this form of RWT laughably easy. Actually it's even easier. Firstly, there are loads of bug to abuse(some examples include poisoned c. morrigan spears and (4)->(3) dosing potions) that allow very fast cash transfer. Secondly, for every ge min or ge max item you know you can transfer 5% of starting money every 4 hour. If you know 20 different items you can transfer 265% of the starting money.

You obviously seem oblivious to junk trading. Junk has a value. 10b of junk is worth 7,5-9b market price, so you wouldn't actually be trading disk for ely. After trade restrictions are gone, junk will be.... junk(without any real monetary value). Likewise, you're obviously oblivious to the question I'm trying to ask. What I said was, since junk is going to literally be junk shortly, it would be in someone's best interest to get rid of their currently high street priced items, with their junk, and buy items currently potential junk (read: Ely), since by doing that, when the update hits, you'll have an ely that you bought with all your junk, and whoever was dense enough to take it now has all your old junk, and you have an actual sellable item. Why don't you think a little before you start to brandish the assumption hammer. It still doesn't make any sense. If the price is right now, it should be about right then. Basically, you can trade a disk and a bunch of junk for ely, but it would be the same as doing the same trade after the update, only that junk will lose ~50% of it's price, disk will gain ~100% and ely will lose a fair portion of it's value. It's impossible to predict how the prices change exactly, but the bottom line is that the trade would pan out in the same way. Why? because, again, junk has a value. The idea is pointless as it assumes that you'd be creating junk, which is not possible anymore(not enough time to manipulate an item enough).

Which explains why i mentioned almost half the xp rate for the lower rune, but not experience rates going far north of 60k. For fast-free-laws i was able to get around 35k xp an hour running out of altar 20% of the time. It'd doubtful that we'd have a far better system than the one at law altar for zmi, and zmi really suffers from the multiple rune types(having to drop ~10 different piles of runes before each trade).

Why do i somehow remember laws maxing out at around 40k rc xp(free-fast-laws)? I doubt zmi will be any better, furthermore getting alot of runes every time, so i doubt even 100k xp an hour is possible. The best nature running(the kind larryr had) was maybe about 60k rc xp an hour too, probably less.

Fairly uneducated post but well just have to live with that. You just have to think- do these people want to junk trade? in all likelyhood, no. But why, then, were they doing it? I think the answer lies i that question.

This reply would be a very good one IF free trade and pking was removed because of PK-ers. Unfortunately... It wasn't. And you know who suffered because of it? The change took place for a reason, and if the reason doesn't apply anymore(as stated by jagex), why not bring it back? Because the re-change? As for your speculation on the update(which you so elegantly put into the form of facts), they are speculation. The change wasn't very worrisome, and as we are not going into a new system, the change-back shouldn't be aswell. There are no clear signs of how this will turn up in the long run so it's just silly to factually state that a hundred thousand yew bots will be back just because. So yes, this update might delay some new quests and such, but when you compare it to the rebirth of pking and staking, it's really nothing. People will be RETURNING to play this game, and that says alot. There aren't many updates with that sort of impact. This update would matter, and that's saying alot. As for you dismissing the game as it was in 06-07, it was better. Why? Because there were different communities working as one. None of the problems you named about the 07 is what the update is looking to solve or are not present nowadays. If jagex says that they can deal with rwt/botting, why is everyone completely dismissing them? The update is supposed to fix the rare item community, reintroduce pking(which used to be >60% of all high level content) and staking(another 10% of high level content), and as far as i can tell, it'll achieve just that. PK-ers were the ones that got shafted because of the change, and now they are responsible for this turnback? I think what you mean is that it isn't all about combat ANYMORE. It used to be mostly about combat in the past. And thanks for the compliment :shades:

The thing that's wrong is that the abyss was DESIGNED to be dangerous. If you buy a car you want it to be able to drive, not swim. The reintroduction of wilderness will only reinstate that original design, so there is really nothing to cry about. Why am i taking this seriously? Because me playing the game or not largely depends on this. It's not about me not being able to runecraft, complete clues or do a few quests, it's about 70-90% of my gaming experience. How would the skillers feel if 90% of the content available to them was removed? Is it really so hard to make small sacrifices for the good of others, others that have been playing this game much longer and have alot more experience. PKing was what this game used to be about, and if you don't like it, there is really little reason to hate people who do like it. I think it's very consistent to want opposite gaming communities to respect one another and for me to answer silly uneducated claims with some of my own. Not to mention taking quotes out of context...

I swear I've heard this before... Yeah, but this really is about us. And i don't mean the community here. <3: Oh, did you want to represent your opinion on this gol?

Don't mention this to the newschool skillers. Still, i wonder, why do you get skulled and lose all prayer points when you enter the abyss? Or why clue locations are located at places like the axe hut or rune rocks? Very strange...