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I realize the 1 action per 1 reaction. But who said that the one action had to be made with your hand rather then your lips? While this may be against the rules, I find it hard to classify people who use hotkey scripts like this (which Jagex should just develop and release, like WoW) in the same category as botters who run a script and go to bed for the night. I still don't want to pvp against someone using an item switch bot... reason number 481 to not pvp. Seeing as in both occasions people are doing it for personal benefit, i wouldn't draw a line between those who bot.

The goal is to have fun. To quantify success, you turn to profit. As for what the ancient said, that's the whole point of it. If you are going to risk half your bank, you pretty damn sure know that you are not going to die. I myself have pked with a partyhat, and i must say, it's alot of fun(and no, it wasn't solo pking). No risk means there isn't anything on the line. And as for quantifying superiority in 1 vs 1 dm's- the game isn't only single combat, thus the fact that pking allows for a wild variety of different situations as well as the difficulty of getting away to show how good you really are.

How is that honest? Someone who can afford better gear should have an advantage, right? Not if they're unwilling to risk it. Why is that? Doesn't make any sense to me you should be willing to lose the gear you are using. Yes, better gear and a bigger bank gives you an advantage in a one on one fight, but not in a situation where you are fighting for profit(thus the term successful solo pker). And well, someone who has a bigger bank shouldn't have an advantage, but someone who can afford to risk more should have. If you risk alot while getting alot of kills, all while not making a profit, you aren't a good pker in my book.

It doesn't, but most of the people in the world like to show superiority in something material. As for the risk, it's what keeps things honest. You can only risk what you dare lose, not use everything you want and have no worries about losing. Being put into a perfect situation is not a natural way of besting each-other. That's why i think being a great solo pker really brings out the best abilities in a player good at combat- they are not limited by money(30m bank is more than enough) and have to take every possibility into account, and they don't only have to face one person at a time, they can face a team of 30 people and have to show that they can not only kill but also get away. Much more skill than just switching prayers/armor and eating food/drinking pots.

Currently, i'd just conclude that there is no number one showing of combat ability. When wilderness comes back, it will, again, dominate. Safe pvp really shows nothing of pvp ability because of the lack of risk. Risk is what separates the children from the grownups.

Safe pvp is newschool, pking is oldschool. The whole question of who is better at combat came from pking as the goal-line. The way you perceive combat is a direct result of the removal of the wilderness, my view is from what it has been for most of the time this game has existed. Also, as another note of how some people perceive combat, namely duellers, is nothing of what you or me think of it. Adding newschool dueling to that(where the best of brids go to show their superiority for partyhats, etc), there are many ways to perceive combat. For pking, not using protection prayers is an important part of it(as far as i know, best brids only use soul split while staking for rares, or just ban overheads).

Most of my pking days were from 2004 to the second quarter of 2007(i was a member of Di for 8 months in 2006) and i haven't very actively mb pk-ed during pvp times as it's complete bs because of loot. Edge pking is actually more fun for the current pvp system. I know that my perception of mb pking is quite a bit different from what i've experienced, but it's likely mb pking will be reinstated more like it was in the old days, though. The current pking system is very much bs. Ancient, that's your opinion. For pkers, there is more to think about than to just winning the fight- if you win the fight with no food left, good luck surviving a 5 minute TB, and good luck using all your best equipment when you know you can lose them. Thus, because pking is more diverse and has alot more factors to it, i regard it as a better show of combat ability. The best pk i've ever gotten is KOing a member of DI in front of mage bank for a whip and then surviving a 2,5 minute tb while a team of 5+ people were trying to tag me. Situations like that make pking oh so much better than safe pvp... I regard someone successful at solo mb pking as the best at combat. Not many can do that.

But why do you class a 1 vs 1 dm as the true show of combat ability? I haven't seen that it's the number one unanimous way to show being better at combat, thus you shouldn't regard of it that way. However much you want to take this topic away from pking, only place where praying matters is, as we have seen pking. This thread is about pking. As for your view, it's only your view. Not everyone looks at combat the same way. You might be good at safe pvp, but it doesn't make you good at pking. We don't really have an unanimous way of showing who is better at combat as a whole. Safe pvp really can't be it, mostly, because it's safe. A good pker wants to be good at pking, not combat. What you think pking should be is meaningless. A good pker doesn't have to be good at safe pvp- it's mostly intelligence and experience that matters while pking, not just pure clicking power. Pkers are an honorable kind that have rules between them to benefit them all. I see nothing wrong with that. You have the right of pking the way you want, but as i've said a number of times, there are consequences.

If you didn't know that pking and safe pvp were drastically different from the getgo, i'm sorry, but you must have really been stupid to think that way. There is a reason pkers completely disregard of safe pvp of any kind. And really, most of the thread is trying to show that pkers are wusses who want people to play their way, and even you can't deny that, all while trying to convince us your way is best. For you to have a clear and educated view on this, you'd atleast need to have pked somewhat.

Sure seems like a topic from your perspective. But in any case, the most important thing you seem to be forgetting is that pking isn't about death matches- as dieing matters, you need to kill other people, not survive their attacks. Thus, as being able to KO your opponent is the most important factor in determining the winner, protection prayers will more or less kill any KO potential. If you can't KO, you can't pk. Like I've already said, this perspective fully admits that PKing is more KO/kill focused than who is good at combat. I'm fine with that, I just disagree with the perspective. You're willing to admit the "kill" part but are you willing to admit the "good at combat" part? In the old days, being good at combat was the same as being good at KOing your opponent. It's mostly the newschool notion that these things differ. And really, i'm not bitter about pking or anything, i'm just baffled at your perception of pking, even though you know little about it. What you need is to pk, being good and experienced at safe pvp doesn't fully translate to success while pking, and vice versa. You practically call pkers cheap, not knowing much about pking, and expect not to be criticized for it? Being able to anticipate your opponents next move and not playing it safe when it matters, i'd say.

Sure seems like a topic from your perspective. But in any case, the most important thing you seem to be forgetting is that pking isn't about death matches- as dieing matters, you need to kill other people, not survive their attacks. Thus, as being able to KO your opponent is the most important factor in determining the winner, protection prayers will more or less kill any KO potential. If you can't KO, you can't pk.

I think your post are mostly about you not thinking like a pk-er. I've always despised safe pvp for being soft and stupid, and you really show why. The calculation is done very one sided and is a BS, but if you consider factors impartially, praying adds around 10% clicking, which isn't that significant. As for cheap shots, it's common knowledge that people pray after getting kills, and there being a huge crowd is highly unlikely(but you wouldn't know these things...uhh...). And yes, being a good pker has NEVER been about being good at DMs. To get kills while pking you need either to KO your opponent or TB them and chase after for 5 minutes. Agreeing to death matches is rare and mostly pointless as people don't value the skill of wasting others food. If you can't understand that notion, there is no point in pking(and remember, pking isn't safe pvp- there is something on the line, thus it would be stupid to let yourself be killed for no reason). If you think you are that good and badass, i'd really love to see you record some dangerous clan wars vids of bridding. Unless you can do that, all you talk about is thin air.

just as i said, a safe pvp prod talking about pking. The whole point of edge pking is to fight one style against another and all of the pkers there know that. They don't even pretend they are doing anything else. Real pking, usually done in high level wilderness or with a team is all about hybriding, and every hybrid pker will be against praying too, as it practically eliminates KO potential, therefor drastically lowering the number of kills you get. You'd be stupid to think praying doesn't decrease damage against a hybrid as changing combat styles takes alot more clicks than changing prayers.

If you want to see which option is better you need as much samples as you can get. In this situation they are fighting to see who's better, so a prolonged fight is a good idea. Well if one of them has an ADHD or doesn't have time - it's his problem. A prolonged fight, as said, usually doesn't end in a winner. Fights in the wilderness end because one fighter gets KO's, not because one runs out of food. Bedman, that's just another save pvp prod cliche. Nobody in high level wildy(mb/hut area) uses only one style. There is nothing to love about praying even if you hybrid.

Ancient, nobody is really claiming that prayer makes you worse at combat- it does make you better, but it doesn't make the game better. It's your own choice to pray or not, but as it goes under a code of honor, don't expect people to fight you fairly either(as said, your opponents will likely safe, run with food and tag you because of it). With that said, i don't at all agree with your notion that pking is about killing- what you understand about being the best at combat might be true in a safe pvp environment where nobody really cares about anything, but it's certainly not true in a real pking environment. As said, your approach of 'do not die' does not work in a pvp situation, and more often than not, you will be making much less money and having alot less fun. Most pkers, however, go for the 'I'll kill you'' approach, and it's not really possible with protection prayers- death matches are rare, thus to kill someone you either need to TB first or KO, neither of which works with protection prayers. As said, the best hybrid will win about the same percentage of fights either way, so all he does by agreeing to prayers is ensuring everyone gets less kills(has less fun) and makes less money(will be using more supplies). It's a lose-lose situation. And to add to your calculation, all it shows is that prayers are very insignificant in a good hybrids arsenal. If he is good, he will win a fight with of without prayers, so why use them?

Why not? What skills are involved in pvp then? Will a hybrid that uses prayers well really have the same win/loss ratio as someone who doesn't? If I can extrapolate correctly, PKers knowingly give their opponents a chance to win the chance to win in return. This is the PKer mentality and why Pkers find it dishonorable to safe. I disagree with this mentality because I think there are things that you can do in RS combat that make luck less important of a factor. If that's your philosophy, you can go to grave with it, but don't expect to be fought fairly if you do. I'd be very much content running on full food and safing(in addition to praying, ofcource) every time i see you in wilderness if you insist on praying. There is no need to waste my time and money on someone who fights not to die. I fight to win. I am not sure if they will have the same win:loss ratio, but i'm 100% sure a better skilled pker will be making more money if they don't pray(mostly because they use less supplies). If you don't give your opponent a chance to win, there is no reason to expect others to give you a chance, and if everyone uses cheap tactics on you, pking will be very boring. People pk mostly because of fun, and long fight that end with no winner are the least enjoyable, and praying really creates all those situations. Really, the best skiller analogy i can make to praying in nonmulty is people crashing you in a nonmulty training spot- it doesn't benefit either player and makes training more frustrating. People do it out of convenience, just as people would pray in order to not die. If everyone played to not die, wilderness would be very boring.

In all likelyhood, a fight like that would take place at mb, and particularly not multy(soloers don't really venture into multy). Also, there would be TONS of good hybrid fights that would all end in one player bolting if prayers were allowed, but if they weren't, fights would actually end in KO's quite frequently, which is a skill that will be nerfed by prayers. Overall, i don't think praying makes good hybriding in real pvp any more skillful(praying takes some skill, but some skill will be lost with using prayers). Praying doesn't significantly add skill to a fight(and might actually lessen the skill needed) while making pvp much more boring/less beneficial. A good hybrid will have success no matter if they use prayers or not, so why use them? It's both a fun and efficiency issue. Praying is bad for both(unless you are a scrub and cry in a pillow every time you die).

happy to watch a ten minute fight where neither player goes below 500 lp and one bolts after? sure... It sure used to be fun to chase scum in the pirates bar with ten people, only to have them teleport.

The difference is very minute compared to the disadvantages that come from it. Eating full every time you get hit isn't hard, but it does take skill, and not everybody can be equally good at it, so it too can be considered a legit tactic in your book of honor. Realistically, if you are a good enough hybrid, you will excell one way of the other, so there is no reason really to phantomly make wilderness boring by allowing prayers for everyone. Just think, would anyone even bother fighting someone with a divine(protected by prayers) using protection prayers and a full yak of brews? in all likelyhood, no.

Because, as you said, when everyone knows how to prayer switch perfectly(and people will learn in a giffie), it doesn't benefit anyone. Why would we all agree upon something that doesn't benefit anyone? sounds stupid. And not as though it doesn't benefit anyone, it will make pking much more costly and make getting kills much harder. Do you want an empty wilderness? The dishonor of prayers really needs a real pker to know. If you aren't a pker, it's seemingly hard to understand the honor behind not praying in nonmulty.

How and why is prayer switching cheap? It only prolongs the fight if both people know how to do it well. But that's not true. If it were deemed honorable, trust me, everyone would be an ace in prayer switching. It's not really a divine skill, even though you might think you are divine for mastering it.

I am very sad to see such a dimwitted comment from you, particularly knowing you are a SAFE pvp prod. Really sad. And really, praying doesn't require that much skill(and you'll only be praying against two styles, not three, as two way hybriding is much better/realistic in real pvp), and, as sayd by red eyed, there is a reason people look down upon safing aswell- there is no reason to pk if neither player wants to risk losing. Praying eliminates a big part of the risk in pvp. wait... what? i said that people don't like it when other people use protect prayers because they don't want to bother hybriding. i didn't say I don't like it when other people use protect prayers because I don't want to bother hybriding. i have no problem when someone uses protect prayers :unsure: I'm referring more to the part that any safe pvp prod would disregard hybrid pking- when i still used to team/solo pk at mb/hut, no pker had less than two styles of combat with them. Hybriding has nothing to do with prayers being disallowed. It's usually a clan rule of honor. If you aren't honorable and have a need to prolong a fight for no apparent reason, look for your enemies to pray against you and use cheap tactics on you aswell(running on full food, safing, etc). If you still think praying gives you the best chance to win, go for it. There should e a reason behind honor, and the reason behind not praying for hybrids is dubious in my opinion There is- there is no reason to pointlessly prolong fights by something that takes little skill in order to decrease the risk. Safing is looked down upon aswell, and the reasoning is exactly the same as why praying is dishounoable. If nobody uses prayers, the best player will still win, with the exception that there will be more kills between players.

I am very sad to see such a dimwitted comment from you, particularly knowing you are a SAFE pvp prod. Really sad. And really, praying doesn't require that much skill(and you'll only be praying against two styles, not three, as two way hybriding is much better/realistic in real pvp), and, as sayd by red eyed, there is a reason people look down upon safing aswell- there is no reason to pk if neither player wants to risk losing. Praying eliminates a big part of the risk in pvp. Also, i think you are disregarding the honor part of it- for alot of people, it was a rule not to pray in nonmulty, just as it's a law not to kill people in real life.

Because it cheapens combat- for a pathetic price of 44 prayer you get a 40% damage reduction, which is just way too large for the price(many people don't fight divines in pvp for a reason). It also doesn't really take that much skill to use and only really lengthens fights and makes them less attractive, thus any honorable clan bans them from being used in 1 on 1 combat situations. Only using SS/smite assures that the fight isn't pointlessly prolonged and that the best player usually wins- protection prayers don't improve in any way upon that. It is true that the problem nowadays is somewhat different, and if it turns out that KOing/killing in 2,5 minutes(half tb) time is easily possible with people praying, praying might get legit considerations from new clans. Atleast in the old days, even when hybriding, assuming your opponent prayed, KOing or killing your opponent before they were out of food used to be impossible, thus many honorable clans(like DI) banned nonmulty praying. Nobody needs a wilderness where getting kills is next to impossible and real skill doesn't translate in success. If you pray, you more than likely aren't there to pk(praying is completely fine by non-pkers, remember).

I'm not entirely sure if this post is serious or why you decided to post it on this thread but the answer is 100%, it's pretty doable you just have to lure the monster you're currently fighting in between hitting it with your weapon. Has any of you(referring to this and another answer) tested this or is it just a vague guess? As far as i've seen and heard, the maximum is around 3450 seconds in combat(according to the number of hits), with anything above 3300 considered good. Auto retaliate in auto-attack situations gets between 3150 to 3300 seconds of combat.