xpx

I meant... 99 Attack vs Black Dragon, obviously 99 Attack should kill the monster first rather than 60 Attack. However, if you did the same against a player, it's more random, maybe to do with if armour is worn or not. any proof of that? as far as any clear minded person is concerned, attack works the same way for both occasions. Also, what you might be forgetting is that dragons have a static lp, where as players eat. dragons will die when their lp runs out where as players will die when they get comboed or their food runs out, so it's not a fair comparison. Your accuracy is still the same on a player or monster of the same defense max hit. Attack isn't as important for pvp because it's not your average dp that kills people, it's the maximum dp you can attain in small bursts.

I'm not questioning his intent on what he wanted to explain, but the fact that he posted a picture to show taking no damage is just stupid. I could just aswell post a picture of me at corp, not taking damage, and claim the same things.

The year of downgrade. So they can look back at previous updates and make them work(and yes, i'm going by the logic that if upgrading makes things worse, downgrading should...).

No, they're just much higher. They who? There is something called common courtesy that when you write, not only you but others too should understand what you write. Also, the formula works perfectly for both players and monsters.

Why wouldn't jagex just create some money and put it on different accounts for cash... One of the worst conspiracy theories ever...

Well then you go down there. I took that picture also to highlight the bad part of this update as well. They removed the zeros. I like the zeros. I like to see my character bathed in zeros. Now I get a stupid shield with an arrow bouncing off it. And we all know that Jagex did this because they know that nubile minds are greatly offended by zeros and hitting a zero is obviously a sign of impotence. :roll: Wait, let me get this straight, you took the picture in order to show us the lack of something? How exactly are we to see it when it doesn't exist? You are a strange person... On a serious note, i agree that the picture you took shows nothing at all.

Constancy getting hit 200+? you must be doing something wrong then, as most of the 200+ hits come from bosses(which they had no intention on making easier) and skill doors(same thing). Before you say you are disappointing about an update, you have to be smart enough to set your expectations at a realistic level. This update was introduced to reduce damage in pvp, thus it'd been stupid to assume dungeoneering would be affected.

I've been real busy in real life, meaning i can't be bothered with playing the game much less researching information. As there hasn't been alot of important updates the guide is still mostly up to date, but the only real areas of concern are more accurate kill-rates and so on, which i'm planning to research once i get rigour. In my opinion, ccbow is not worth it.

Oh yes, get a divine. I'd so love to. If it wasn't 1 BILLION gp. And yeah, they probably did the "herpderp over 200 thing" because they're afraid if they make soaking actually useful divine owners will rage. Just like they made barrows degrade because dragon armor owners raged. Or maybe they did it because it made sense? They explicitly said the update was to benefit pvp, not pvm, thus why we have the 200 lp thing. The update accomplishes most of what it was set out to do without unbalancing things and making high priority items useless.

Do you even know the absolute melee max hit in f2p? It's 365. assuming the absolute maximum melee soak is 10%(as far as i know, that's about right), the absolute MAXIMUM soak for f2p is 4,5%, with the average soak against that max hit under 2%, thus the soaking is last think to look for in f2p. For ranged and mage, the soaking is a joke for f2p.

So, who else expected Jagex to do something crappy like this? All this does is mess PvP up some more, and maybe save a brew dose or two on boss trips. WHOOP DE FRICKIN' DO. Yes, I am madbro. I was actually hoping they wouldn't do the "herpderp over 200" thing again... but I expected them to anyways. The point of the update was mainly to reduce KO potential, and this update manages that perfectly. If you want better protection, get a divine.

Neither farseer nor eagle eye shields got shafted much as they are still the only shields to offer those specific soaks. Chaotic kite, however....ouch.

Just got to thinking, as the only real monster that suffers from this update is corp and his attack is ridiculously high, wouldn't wearing a mixture of soaking equipment or mage armor be the best now? The most significant damage corp does is melee and mage, while using only karils will not soak melee and only using bandos will not soak magic, where as using bcp+karil skirt would fix some of that, or even better, wearing ahrims skirt+top would help tremendously, aswell. Any idea on how to estimate this impact?

Unfortunately i'm not currently p2p(haven't been a member for a few months now) so it's hard to arrange. I will be getting members back in a month(when i'll actually have time to play) so that's really the best i can do :oops:

You can't blatantly say: 'This is always better' for any of these items. To get a fair comparison you need to give a situation and the max hit, as without this information, it's impossible to give an accurate comparison. Overall, as this update doesn't significantly change anything, the shield order is more or less the same. The soak on obby shield isn't that great either when you consider already having 20% soak and the fact that range doesn't have a terribly high max hit(other than dragonfire, which may or not actually be soaked as range).

Actually, this update made arcane slightly better as you'll have a higher base soak the damage you receive will be already lowered by other armors, thus making the soak on farseer kite less significant. Other than that, arcane isn't frequently used in situations where you get damaged by alot of 200+ hits, so the defense rarely matters, and where you do get hit for 200+, ely or divine are better than farseer/arcane.

Unfortunately some people are decent enough to follow forum rules and post threads where they actually belong. I'm actually very interested in the subject aswell and would gladly help out if we can get enough systematic data for it(max hits with no boosts, different level boosts, different equipment boosts etc).

+1 gol, learn what is talked about and try to understand it. If you don't, there is no reason to post and troll about it. Overall damage soak and damage soak at max hit are two different things- one shows how much damage is soaked overall(like divine soaks 30% and ely 17,5%, for soaks over 200 lp this is dependent on max hit) and the other shows how much the max hit is lowered.

This update is quite pointless for f2p anyway as all max hits are so low(ranged and mage are uneffected while melee is slightly affected(max around 2% total reduction). The soak stats on the KB seem mildly screwed up for some cases, however 3rd vambs seem to be the biggest winner of this update(only gloves that soak).

Seems VERY strange that spirit shields and dragonfire shield are given no soak at all, or perhaps jagex is compensating for the fact that the chaotic shields suck...

It was deducted based on the theory that not only strength has a max hit, but both attack and defense do aswell. Then, by knowing the max hits of both attack and defense and testing the accuracy on another player it is easy to prove how the formula works(and a dice roll system has always been the most likely theory anyway). For monster defense, it's easy to calculate them if you know your attack max hit and test around 1000 hits for accuracy, but as noone has bothered to do it we have to go by approximates.

Not bad- full rune(4 items) soaks 20% range 9% melee, interested to see what the max soaks for different classes are, and particularly soaks on spirit shields.

I don't know of a good mathematical way of representing it but... if random(between(0;attack max hit)) > random(between(0;defense max hit)) then result = 'hit' else result = 'miss' not entirely sure if it's bewteen 0 and max or 1 and max, but it matters little. Also not entirely sure what happens when the numbers are equal, but that maters even less. Max hits are calculated the same way as strength max hits are(using equipment attack/defense bonuses instead of equipment strength bonus).

Could you direct me to Grimy's theory? Please and thanks. Just click the picture in my signature :). And while I agree with xpx in that we do know, for example, that strength > accuracy in most cases, it'd still be nice to know the formula. I like formulas. But we do have the formula, it's just not easy enough to use for every small detail. The only hard part about the formula is figuring out monster defense, which we have very little information about.

Very uneducated post and not much discussion value here. Other than us already having a VERY good understanding of accuracy in general, jagex has never and likely will never release important game information, if you want to know, you have to work for it. For your information, both attack and defense work just like strength, producing a max hit. A random number is then generated for attack(between 0 and max or 1 and max, not entirely sure) and the same for defense. If the attack 'roll' is higher, the attack 'hits'(hitting doesn't necessarily mean doing damage, atleast not until the next game update), and if the defense roll is higher, the attack 'misses'. It's then a matter of probability theory to figure out the accuracy.