TheAncient

That's the point. They're overpowered. I've gotten about 20 from TD's, WF's, and Frosties.

What about for DK's? Is it worth it to sacrifice DPS when you get 13 square range? I'm doing DK's right now and I can hit prime whereever I want.

That's a big assumption. Though, I could try it when I get the chance. DDS's are what, level 60 weapons? under the right circumstances they are the highest DPS of any weapon. Have you tried it yourself?

use your DPS equation and take the limit as target defense approaches infinity. Then see if the magic longbow (s) surpasses the rune crossbow in any circumstances so if DPS(Max Accuracy Roll - Resolution) of the bow is less than DPS * (Max Accuracy Roll - Resolution) of a rune crossbow. Then there exists no situations where the magic longbow (S) > Rune crossbow Unfortunately, I don't know how ranged accuracy works.

It's been used at arma (pretty unsuccessfully) - If i had vidding equipment I could show the comparison between it and RXB at TD's. It's so much more accurate. Hmm. What makes it unsuccessful at arma? I know it would have a really low max, but you'd think that the accuracy (which is huge there) would at least sort of make up for it. I'll go look for a video of that now I suppose. I've only seen one vid, and I wasn't really impressed by it. But it just seemed like the lack of a shield was the major problem there.

It's been used at arma (pretty unsuccessfully) - If i had vidding equipment I could show the comparison between it and RXB at TD's. It's so much more accurate.

Magic Longbow (Sighted) has the highest ranged attack in the game, making it the most accurate range weapon. It also has several other benefits: -- 13-square range, giving it more range than Crystal bow and equal range as DBow -- 5-Speed (6-Speed on rapid), making it as fast as a Crystal bow (and faster than a normal longbow) -- Special attack -- Relatively cheap (10K tokens you can get in 2 hours) It really shines at TD's with steel titan - since it never hits over 300, the titan spec will always work when timed properly. If you use a crossbow, sometimes the crossbow hits above 300 and the TD will switch to range prayer, ignoring your titan's spec. It also can be very useful at DK's against Prime because of its 13 square range. As far as DPS against 0 defense -- assuming Extreme pot, 5% Range prayer (if on curses; who uses prayers anymore?): Rune Crossbow w/ Broad Bolts (5 speed on rapid): 350 Max = 58 average DPS Rune Crossbow w/ Diamond(e) (5 speed on rapid): 360 Max/414 Spec = 60-69 average DPS MLS w/ Rune Arrows (6speed on rapid): 240 Max = 50 average DPS MLS w/ Broad Arrows (6 speed on rapid): 200 Max = 41 average DPS Maxed Crystal bow (6 speed on rapid): 280 Max = 58 average DPS The DPS with MLS(rune Arrows) is about 75% the DPS with RXBow(Diamond e). Would you think there are situations where the added accuracy compensates for this DPS loss? Certainly the RXB is a better all-round weapon. I'm only arguing that MLS is a better alternative in special scenarios.

I think it's a lot easier to snipe an ely than a div on GE

Kind of off topic, but I was reading that thread and lol'd:

Losing, that's why you do bankable (fletching, crafting, etc.) skills while waiting for a team :thumbsup: Proteams are slowing down. A lot of 80+ are terrible nowadays.

C1-C4 Here's why. No one does C6 X:1 rushes. W117 people usually do C6 5:5, which takes WAY too long. If you're doing C6 5:5 smalls, L2DG. The pros do C1-C4 5:1 rushes. Now, whether or not C6 5:1 is better XP (which it probably is) is almost irrelevant. No one does C6 5:1's. All of the extra XP you get will be for naught, because YOU WILL SPEND TOO MUCH EXTRA TIME LOOKING FOR TEAMMATES. The main advantage of C1-C4 is not only to finish those floors quickly - it's to finish them all in one sitting, and not having to find teammates. Granted, if you have friends to do C6 5:1, or even C6 3:1 or 2:1, it may be worth it.

The best way to test which weapon is better at Bandos is just to have 2 people evenly matched in stats use each weapon and see who gets more kills. This test was done with CR vs CLS and CLS won. More tests need to be done to be sure of this conclusion.

By the way, just used maul at Bandos. It's pretty lolworthy. I'm pretty sure it outclasses (DPS) CR by a significant amount, and likely CLS too - at least for crashing. The slight problem with using it for crashing is that its hits have such high variance - if you want to consistently beat out a weaker opponent, CLS may or may not be better. But if you want to hold your own against someone just as strong as you, CM is going to be better. You'll lose the fights where CM misses/hits low, but the slight majority of the time you'll beat the opponent by a large margin. This is something we're not entirely sure of. While CM will be more powerful than CLS against all defended opponents (that don't have a slash weakness), we don't know whether or not that DPS bonus outweighs the loss of the shield. All we can say with a good degree of certainty is that the DPS will be higher. We can't say it'll be better. REASONS TO BUY A CLS Previously I downplayed the advantages of CLS. While I still think CR and CMaul are the better choices (in all cases) for DPS, CLS is BETTER SITUATIONALLY. The key word here is SITUATIONAL. When you may or may not need a shield, CLS is better. - For High defense PvP without eating (i.e. clan wars, castle wars since food doesn't take an attack turn there), CLS is marginally better than CR but CM should be used (as a sidearm) anyway for KO's/melee rushes. - For High defense PvM, CLS is slightly better than CR. This almost only applies to Bandos (in Sara, CM will be better because of the lag between hits from running) - CLS may or may not be the best weapon for TD's - CLS will benefit from a dragon defender more than CM, obviously.

only if you own a divine or ely or ck DFS, spectral, and even BSS are all very good shields and should be used in most tough PvM situations. Arcane is also good for PvP. The key here is not to be reductionist. Even though I agree CR > CM > CLS, the weapons are pretty finely balanced and have situational uses.

I wouldn't say CLS is useless, just not as useful. The severe downside of 2-handedness makes CLS situationally better than maul.

Rapier 530 / 2.4 = 221 DPS CLS 590 / 3 = 197 DPS At maximum accuracy, rapier is TEN PERCENT better than CLS. thats huge. it's the difference between the strength of piety and the strength of turmoil, arguably more. Rapier is also very accurate if you have ex/turm in pvp, you can eat twice for every CLS swing, but only once for every rapier swing.

Jay Kay nevermind. Just got unlucky those first hits... Barrage til Karil's up, Blitz, and Maul/2Claws is crazy

I just got a maul and have been playing with it. It's actually not very accurate against anything with defense - even TD's. Granted, I haven't tried it in dangerous PvP but in safe PvP it never got the KO's I needed when I switched to it. Against TD's, it misses like 20% of the time. Maybe because TD's have a really high crush defense - I don't know. But it's just not as accurate as I hoped. Also, I have yet to hit above 700 :ohnoes:' I'm thinking of getting a CLS :shock:

CCCCCCOMBO BREAKER

False. Using maul gives you the time to decide (after the titan spec) whether you need to switch to crossbow or stay on melee.

Based on my observations, no. Rapier misses a noticeable amount of the time. Plus switches with a 6Speed are just too hectic compared to a 4Speed/5Speed CLS and Maul are better for TD's.

Yup I wish i had photographic memory , it would be so useful for dung. Square who was your keyer? and 12 minutes?on a large? You don't need photographic memory, you just need Notepad open when you key & be able to write in shorthand 12min large is pretty amazing... I've run with Neo/Fred and they run in like 25-30...

Fastest is about 25 It really boils down to: -- Does your keyer know where all doors are? -- Does your keyer effectively gate all of the doors? -- Does the rest of your team help your keyer gate things and update him? -- Do your DPS kill things effectively? My fastest keys is around 40 min, but I should get higher once my computer is repaired and doesn't freeze at every door :blink:

beautiful. when people do research on efficiency, they generally spend like an hour to save 20 minutes for themselves. but most RS gamers are too selfish to realize that this also saves 20 minutes for everybody else that is into efficiency. the researcher effectively spent 40 minutes of his time for the greater good. then he goes on forums and posts his research and he gets crap from idiots who talk about "playing for fun" and "aesthetics" or what not. with absolutely no regard that the researcher was just trying to help. caring about how a CLS looks is just shallow and selfish. If the world researched more about efficiency, it would be a kinder more charitable place. Don't forget that utility - the ultimate point of increasing efficiency - is completely up to personal preference. :grin: Don't get me wrong - I agree with you. But we can't speak for everyone OT: In the long run (scale of 2-3 years), CLS may be better than the maul because of the dragon defender, and potentially better shields.

Yo dawg I herd u liek balance so I balanced ur balance so you can balance while you balance I'm guessing rapier isn't the best because of its low accuracy. Most monsters have high defense so you need good accuracy. I'm thinking Prom BAxe is a viable option - it's same speed and almost same strength bonus as spear, is 1 handed, and has crush and slash attacks. Hailstorm + defender is terrible just because of the fact that you have to unbind your hood. Even if you have 3 binds, the other bind should be melee plate or range body.