TheAncient

It's more like 2M - 2.5M. I have the best possible stats, equipment, etc. and I'm maxing at about 120 bones/hr. Oh. I realized, I haven't tried using cannon yet. I'll see how that goes.

[/hide] I wonder, depending how quick you are, wuld solo medium be > ALL other ways to train? I'm going to be doing rushes to 1-20 on 1-3, then c6 smalls for 20-25 and then 25-30 solo medium c6s That's the best exp for me imo. Soloing at least. Solo meds are apparently 40-50K xp/hr at maxed prestige However, larges are now probably consistently 20 minutes with pro teams and 40 with average teams

Even though I make more at TD's, right now I'm doing frost dragons just because the money is so easy. If i were doing TD's, or DK's, I couldnt not be typing this at the same time. But frost dragons are almost as afkable as training slayer. I'm anticipating I'm spending about 200K/hr in pots (ppots + extremes + superantifires), and gross profit is steady at 2.5M/hr --> 2.2M/hr net I'm pretty sure this won't last long.... 85 Dg isn't hard to get.

Couldn't you just test the dual dice roll theory? (each player rolls a value based on the strength formula, except with defense and attack stats/values; if the attacker has the higher value the attack hits)

9001st to 99 Summoning. Over 9000. Time to tear up some TD's.

Hi kota, its Ancient anyway, OT: as long as you know what youre doing & aren't stupid, it's okay to have 75ish Dg and Dg with us.

I would advise you to Dungeoneer more, get more experience with Keys, and get a reputable (80+) Dg level. Then look for clans.

You mean it's the only activity (as in the general term) that requires skills (which refers to teamwork) to get good payout. It's much like team-based activities like castle wars and stealing creation. Of course, if those had actual level system I can say the same thing too. :rolleyes: Yes, and I would argue good CW'ers are more skilled than people who have a lot of grind-99's like cooking etc. It's not only teamwork - you need a good memory, be able to prioritize kill order, have a large knowledge base (eg crush on skeles, etc), etc. I think there's nothing wrong with saying this "minigame" is a skill, just because it has so much breadth. I think it's a refreshing change, and requires at least some intelligence to train properly, unlike most RS skills. It's silly to say it fits the normal model as a "skill", but I don't see what the harm is by calling it one. It actually incentivises playing it more too.

Started DGing with pros. 35-40 minute larges are considered slow; most of the time we're within the 30 minute range. Both are frontpagers, I think Fred is #2 right now

The ironic thing is that Dungeoneering is probably one of the only skills that actually requires skill to be good at. XP Rate with good Dungeoneers = 1Large/30mins XP Rate with bad W117ers = 1Large/90mins

I'm still a little surprised this post is going on... I'm not pulling these numbers out of nowhere. Check my other post on CLS/CR/Maul DPS. 0 Def: CR > CLS by 15% PvM/PvP: CLS > CR by 2-3%

Rapier + Maul is best combination Otherwise, go for Long Slayer: Rapier > CLS > Maul PvP: Maul > Rapier = CLS but you lose shield with maul PvM: Maul > Rapier = CLS but you lose shield with maul

It's still possible (and easy) to flick SS, as well as flick between SS & Prot pray

When Barraging, does your magic damage boost apply to all 9 of the things you attack or just one target?

3A will drop in price over time because more people will be doing TT Same with Rangers Set

How much mage bonus do you really need? What if you're only around +50? The reason I ask is because I'm considering combat robes as an alterative to battle robes. Combat robes save 20% of runes, but have very low mage attack bonus.

What's the equivalent crims per HOUR (not per 1k barrage)? Is it slower than CT WF w/ Iron Titan? Does arcane stream's boost work on all lobs in a pile or only one? Same logic for wolpertinger boost?

Does the seed give you more than 1 Edicap mushroom per harvest (in Dungeoneering) Thanks.

http://forum.tip.it/topic/270021-maul-vs-cls-vs-cr/ Get Rapier then Maul.

What.

Those are a bunch more calculations. I'm too lazy to do those :grin: But, if you're curious, here is the file I've been using to calculate everything. You can input values for those setups if you'd like. As far as I know, my computer doesn't have any viruses, and I hope you'd be able to trust me :P DPS Calculator on Mediafire

Nothing more to say than that you should propably report it as a bug. At least for slayer, it doesn't make a big differance because the 10 hours isn't true anyway. I also think that it's a bug. I've never heard of this before, and I'm sure people would have whined about it... but then again I don't have any experience with chaotics yet. The numbers are to an extent arbitrary, but if you assume that the DPS calculator works then it's a fairly good approximation. Yes, veng is a large downside to the maul that I didn't account for. Still, there are workarounds for that such as the ones you mentioned, and using it as a pseudo-spec weapon only after your opponent's veng has been taken down. This is really hard to say because we don't know WF defense. But if we assume WF has 0 defense against crush (which isn't entirely true): Assumptions: Turmoil(@23%+ Str boost) + OL + standard WF gear SS DPS: 91.25 ZS DPS: 87.29 CMaul DPS: 87.5 Now, let's assume WF's have about 100 defense (which is true because we know WF's boost turmoil to 29%. 14% of 100 is about 29% - 15%.). Let's also assume They have about 50 crush defense. I picked 50 because it calibrated the ZS accuracy to be about 95% which is roughly true with experience. Assumptions: Turmoil(@23%+ Str boost) + OL + standard WF gear; WF has 100 defense level and 50 crush defense bonus SS DPS: 84.5 ZS DPS: 83.6 CMaul DPS: 87.5 (~100% accuracy!) If these assumptions are accurate, then CMaul's DPS is about 5% higher than ZS/SS, which are about the same. It's really arguable whether or not CMaul's DPS is really higher for WF. I can't say for sure, but it definitely isn't an obvious improvement. In reality, since WF doesn't have 0 defense, CMaul's DPS is slightly higher. However, you also have to take into account the death-loss effect (you often don't hit your max hit as a killing blow, wasting time and DPS. this affects slow weapons more than fast weapons). Where can I get the stats for the proposed chaotic weapons :blink: Are you talking about the Dg-specific Prom and Primal gear? Cause those weapons will only be available in Daemonheim and we have no idea of the stats of any Daemonheim foes.

DISCLAIMER: Yes, I realize there is another post about this. However, it doesn't discuss the maul as much. Also, I'd like to bring in actual numbers instead of just speculation. Thought this was relevant in light of the DPS calculator I made (see other post on GenDis). It's not entirely accurate but it gives a reasonable estimate for DPS. Before I begin, let's start with some basic intuition about the Dungeoneering weapon choices. These weapons are very acutely balanced, with no clear winner among the three. The best weapon is highly situational. Rapier is fast, but less accurate. It is better for situations in which you hit most of the time. Maul is slow, but accurate and has KO potential. It is better for situations in which you want accuracy or to surprise an opponent with a large hit. The longsword is a balance between the two. LOW-DEFENSE First, let's compare the DPS (damage per second) of the weapons against 0 defense, to get a sense of Low-Defense situations. These values are calculated assuming Turmoil, Ex Str Pots, Max Str, regular strength gear (bandos etc), which is the typical gear when fighting things with low defense (i.e. slayer) CRapier w/ Def: 115 DPS (100% Acc) CLS w/ Def: 100.7 DPS (100% Acc) CMaul: 95.4 DPS (100% Acc) Whip w/ Def: 101.25 DPS (100% Acc) Rapier is the clear winner by roughly 15%. What is surprising is that Cmaul and CLS have comparable DPS. However, CMaul's actual DPS is slightly lower than the DPS listed because of the death-loss effect (you can't hit your max hit when your opponent has less hitpoints than your max hit). Maul and CLS are both worse than whip. MEDIUM-DEFENSE Now, let's consider Medium defense situations. These apply to cases such as dangerous PvP, where most people are wearing rune, or when your opponent is wearing low-defense armor such as Karil's or Ahrim's. I assumed the defense value was around 225, and that the opponent is praying turmoil. Regular and not extreme potions were used for these calculations. Also assume max stats for both players. You are wearing rune and neitiznot. CRapier w/ Shield: 32 DPS (30.8% Acc) CRapier w/ Def: 36.6 DPS (34.36% Acc) CLS w/ Shield: 33 DPS (36.14% Acc) CLS w/ Def: 37 DPS (39.5% Acc) CMaul: 38.95 DPS (43.75% Acc) Whip w/ Shield: 26.82 DPS (28.73% Acc) Whip w/ Def: 30.82 DPS (32.1% Acc) Assuming the results are accurate, CMaul is the winner (marginally) for DPS in dangerous PvP situations. Furthermore, it has the highest variance in its hits, making it a better KO weapon. Of course, these data neglect the 1-hand vs 2-hand benefit of having a shield, which may or may not be neglible in PKing, especially when defenders are annoying to lose and KO potential is the name of the game. Also, I didn't take into account vengeance. Veng is extremely powerful against the CMaul. CLS appears to be about the same DPS as the rapier. However, the CLS is worse for combo's since its speed is a problem (2 eats instead of 1). HIGH-DEFENSE Finally, let's investigate safe PvP situations in which your opponent is tanked out. Let's assume he has maximum stats, extreme pots, turmoil, and tank gear (at ~350 Melee defense). You are also wearing tank gear, and thus non-strength boosting gear. You have turmoil and extremes. CRapier w/ Shield: 23.7 DPS (21.4% Acc) CRapier w/ Def: 26.15 DPS (23.8% Acc) CLS w/ Shield: 24.4 DPS (25.0% Acc) CLS w/ Def: 26.44 DPS (27.4% Acc) CMaul: 27.9 DPS (30.35% Acc) Whip w/ Shield: 19.87 DPS (47.7% Acc) Whip w/ Def: 22.00 DPS (22.3% Acc)) CMaul comes out as a winner, but again only marginally, and the cost of losing the shield slot which is more important in safe PvP (because that's where you see Spirit shields and DFS's). CLS appears to be about the same DPS as the rapier. However, the CLS is much worse for KOing due to its speed (2 eats instead of 1). I would say CLS is slightly better for hybriding if you switch often. SITUATION-SPECIFIC WATERFIENDS [hide] This is really hard to say because we don't know WF defense. But if we assume WF has 0 defense against crush (which isn't entirely true): Assumptions: Turmoil(@23%+ Str boost) + OL + standard WF gear SS DPS: 91.25 ZS DPS: 87.29 CMaul DPS: 87.5 Now, let's assume WF's have about 100 defense (which is true because we know WF's boost turmoil to 29%. 14% of 100 is about 29% - 15%.). Let's also assume They have about 50 crush defense. I picked 50 because it calibrated the ZS accuracy to be about 95% which is roughly true with experience. Assumptions: Turmoil(@23%+ Str boost) + OL + standard WF gear; WF has 100 defense level and 50 crush defense bonus SS DPS: 84.5 ZS DPS: 83.6 CMaul DPS: 87.5 (~100% accuracy!) If these assumptions are accurate, then CMaul's DPS is about 5% higher than ZS/SS, which are about the same. It's really arguable whether or not CMaul's DPS is really higher for WF. I can't say for sure, but it definitely isn't an obvious improvement. In reality, since WF doesn't have 0 defense, CMaul's DPS is slightly higher. However, you also have to take into account the death-loss effect (you often don't hit your max hit as a killing blow, wasting time and DPS. this affects slow weapons more than fast weapons). [/hide] BOSS HUNTING [hide] From the Medium Defense Numbers: CRapier w/ Shield: 32 DPS (30.8% Acc) CRapier w/ Def: 36.6 DPS (34.36% Acc) CLS w/ Shield: 33 DPS (36.14% Acc) CLS w/ Def: 37 DPS (39.5% Acc) CMaul: 38.95 DPS (43.75% Acc) Whip w/ Shield: 26.82 DPS (28.73% Acc) Whip w/ Def: 30.82 DPS (32.1% Acc) A note can be made here about PvM. Examine the accuracy values. They are, on a rough estimate, about the same (if not, slightly less) the accuracy against Graardor and Kril. It is hard to say for sure the exact rank order against these bosses, since exact defense values for them are unknown. Either way, all of them are better than whip and approximately the same. Against TD's, the DPS rank is also more or less the same, but marginally, Rapier > Long > Maul. Rapier is best in this situation because the TD's defense is so low (assumed 70% accuracy of Rapier - 85% accuracy of maul). However, your weapon of choice should depend on play style. The main concern against TD's is the lag time between switching attacks. This lag time slows down faster weapons more than slower weapons, since switching with a slow weapon doesn't require as quick reaction times and thus involves less lag. Because of this lag, Thus, if you want to take your time and not have to switch as often and as quickly, but sacrifice some DPS, I'd go with the Maul. For balance, go with Long. For maximum DPS (but only marginally), go with Rapier.[/hide] CONCLUSIONS The best weapon is SITUATIONAL. No weapon is the best in all contexts. You must decide which context fits best for you. This was our original intuition, and the calculations support this. For Slayer/Training: Rapier is ~15% better than Whip, CLS, or Maul. Whip is marginally better than CLS is marginally better than maul. For PKing(Med-Def): Maul is the best, by about 5%. Rapier and CLS are about the same. Whip is worst. For Safe PvP(High-Def): Maul is the best, by about 5%, at the cost of losing shield slot. Rapier and CLS are about the same. Whip is worst. For PvM (GWD): CLS, Maul, and CR are roughly the same. They are all better than the whip. For PvM (TD's): Depends on playstyle and willingness to switch weapons quickly. Rapier is the best for raw DPS (marginally), but may be impractical due to switches. Longsword is the best balance. For PvM (WF's): No clear winner, among ZS, SS, and CMaul. General Rank Order (for PvPers): Maul > Rapier >= CLS. DEPENDS ON WHAT PVP YOU DO. General Rank Order (for MHers): No clear winner. General Rank Order (for Training): Rapier is clearly the best. Suggestion for General Use: First, Rapier. Second, Maul. Third (if at all) CLS. These calculations are not 100% correct. These conclusions may be invalid should my DPS calculator (which is explained in another post) be highly inaccurate.

That's exactly what I meant earlier. I think it'd be useful to do, too. We could get more or less conclusive evidence as to which weapons we should be using. I used to have a program that records accuracy, but it was on my old computer which crashed. I could write it again, but I've forgotten most of my Java and would prefer not to.

Actually, all you need is basic algebra, and the ability to calculate the area of triangles/rectangles ;) I explained it in a previous thread: but it boils down to this your accuracy is the area of the red triangle, divided by the area of the red triangle + the area of the blue shape the length of one edge(not hypotenuse) of the red triangle is approximately equal to your max accuracy. The length of the longest edge of the blue shape is approximately equal to the target's max defense. ^ This. My formula is a little bit convoluted, and requires extra calculations, but arrives at the same conclusion.