Should JAGEX Intervene?

[kam42705]

Well, one of the biggest issues today seems to be the fact that high level alchemy has caused mass-inflation in RuneScape. Well the question is, should Jagex do something to help this dire situation, since from the way things appear to be goings, Armegeddon seems to be in a few years, with coal being worth 12k each, and phats being worth 2.1 billion coins..... What do YOUthink Jagex should do?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally, I think they should just implement a new skill that unlocks High-Level Alchemy at level 99 or 100, which would enable us to keep it, while lowering the amount of inflation. \

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Last time I checked coals isn't 12k a piece, and a partyhat isn't 2.1B

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All I'm stating is that the prices MAY rise that high due to inflation, and and simply asking for feedback on ways that this can be fixed.

[aaron1120]

Bud, you need to get your facts straight. First off, high alchemy doesn't cause any inflation, it keeps the market in check. No item is blown out of proportion. Last time I checked coals isn't 12k a piece, and a partyhat isn't 2.1B.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Items like coal would go up maybe because at any current time it is in higher demand, and items like partyhats go up because new ones will never be introduced into the game.

[MPM]

A very well thought out argument. There would be no repercussions from that at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex just needs more money drains, and they keep adding them. Their keeping up with inflation.

 

 

 

In the 5 years I've played, standard items(coal, runes) have not increased dramaticly. Coal use to be 200 gp each, nature runes(before runecrafting even) costed 300 each. With the measures that jagex takes, 12k/coal is silly.

[kam42705]

Last time I checked coals isn't 12k a piece, and a partyhat isn't 2.1B

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who said that coal is 12k a piece? All I am stating is that the end is near, that in the near future, inflation MAY cause prices to rise that high.

[Evil_Sabre]

i think your blowing this waaaay out of proportion, dont mean to break your heart but i dont think rs will be around long enough for prices to inflate too dramatically. And like another poster said there constantly creating money drains. Notice the construction requirements for all the new quest? I think jagex has the checks and balances working well enough.

[Alg]

A very well thought out argument. There would be no repercussions from that at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex just needs more money drains, and they keep adding them. Their keeping up with inflation.

 

 

 

the recent money drain was construction...sadly, even the rich rant about how expensive it is, and claim that it is useless. before it was released (before april 2006), people were complaining how a money drain was needed. as soon as it came, they deemed it to be "too expensive".

 

 

 

random theory: without high alchemy, magic is a lot more expensive to max out.

[Solidus_77]

First of all I would like to know why you assume prices will rise by 600% when most of them havn't budged much in the past few years (except discontinued items, they are a special case)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is no freakin hyperinflation and there has never been any in runescape, that's a very very extreme case. In fact there is no acctuall proof of inflation, everyone is basing themselves on specific goods. To find out inflation you need to get the PRICE INDEX (that's like the average of all prices) and compare it to the previous year (or month, which ever works better for runescape) so no price index recorded = no proof.

[Gin_and_Tonic]

Inflation is a universal problem... You're talking about this in the Discontiuned items market, not the whole of Runescape.

 

 

 

People high alch their rares, which force prices up...

 

 

 

I'd personally say the largest contributer to inflation in rare prices is the banning of idiotic real-life item traders with mass amounts of rares and gp... Because of them, hundreads of rares are being lifted out of the game, and never being replaced... This is turn, provided demand is still high, forces a rise in the price of rares so people with the money can buy them still if they wish...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, without high alchemy about 50% of the items in Runescape would not have a price... Yew longs, yew longs, mage longs, mage logs, D hides, d hide produce, bow strings, flax etc... So, in my opinion, high-alch is the basis for Runescape... Without it, what would all the items be used for? You can only wear one of each set at a time...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

High alch does NOTHING to the rise in prices in practially ALL of the Runescape items, just those which once gone, cannot be replaced -Rares...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The REAL cause of inflation is SKILL CAPES... Rich players have decided to sell out their rares, for less than before capes were about, reducing inflation in the rares market, and are now buying ALL the raw materials to get 99 Skills... Note how yews are not 350ea, strings back up to 200, gold nearly 550ea, and raw lobbies at nearly 275ea... This is because supply is not meeting the demand, so the price is getting increased massively... If skill capes were never released, there would be little incentive for players to get these skills, thus keeping about 99% of the items in Runescape at a low rate, and the rares market, (which only concerns about 4% of Runescape), going out-of-control...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally, i really do not see how high alchemy is effecting inflation outside of the rares market...

[kam42705]

Although I may be exxagerating a great deal with the price of coal, the fact remains that High-alchemy is one of the largest money-creators in the game. As Duke_freedom has said, about 800 billion coins has been brought it by alchemy alone (420 billion from yew longs, 200 billion from steel plates, 100 billion from blue dragonhide bodies, up to 100 billion from combat, plus money from the alching of other items)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

800 billion coins is a lot of money, and with over 5 million active accounts, we can assume an average of 160k gp per person brought in by alchemy (Note:This figure is probably much higher, as alching 1k steel plates yields 1.2 million coins, something many smithers do.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If each person uses their share of 160k, and since people have different interests, demand for most items would remain relative steady, since aupply and demand should cancel one another out. The issue however is, that some people have more money than others, and soon enough, there is an imbalance, because since they have more money, they can spend their money on whichever material they prefer. They then place a mass order for the item, which increases demand for it. If suppliers cannot cope with the demand, prices rise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The increased demand, in essence, is directly a result of rich merchants attempting to buy-out a skill, so they get the famed skill cape. However, the problem is that this money came as a result of merchanting mostly, and this money was probably based off of high level alchemy. It is safe to assume that about half of the money was based on high-level alchemy, and all I ask is feedback on whether or not JAGEX ought to intervene, and alter requirements for alchemy, or if they should have an entirely different approach to this viable aspect of the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DISCLAIMER: I am NOT asking to remove alchemy, just to alter its requirements, in order lower the overall money brought into the game. Also, adding more money drains is not a way to combat this, as they would be optional, and may not have the full effect intended.

[Solidus_77]

Although I may be exxagerating a great deal with the price of coal, the fact remains that High-alchemy is one of the largest money-creators in the game. As Duke_freedom has said, about 800 billion coins has been brought it by alchemy alone (420 billion from yew longs, 200 billion from steel plates, 100 billion from blue dragonhide bodies, up to 100 billion from combat, plus money from the alching of other items)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Duke_freedom was also carefull to specify that the calculating had a gigantic error margin in it too. He could be off by 300 bill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

800 billion coins is a lot of money, and with over 5 million active accounts, we can assume an average of 160k gp per person brought in by alchemy (Note:This figure is probably much higher, as alching 1k steel plates yields 1.2 million coins, something many smithers do.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But there are also tons and tons of way the money is removed. Anything related to construction, anything bought in shops etc........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If each person uses their share of 160k, and since people have different interests, demand for most items would remain relative steady, since aupply and demand should cancel one another out. The issue however is, that some people have more money than others, and soon enough, there is an imbalance, because since they have more money, they can spend their money on whichever material they prefer. They then place a mass order for the item, which increases demand for it. If suppliers cannot cope with the demand, prices rise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's all theoritical, basically saying that with the increase in the supply of money, it will take more money to buy stuff therefore prices rise. Yes that would be inflation, but where is the increase in price? It's been less than 10% for almost all raw materials. It has significantly decreased for barrows armor and weapons. The only thing with a significant increase in price is the discontinued items. There is no way to say for sure until someone does a price index calculation but there is seriously no evidence of inflation, let alone hyperinflation of prices raising by 600%.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The increased demand, in essence, is directly a result of rich merchants attempting to buy-out a skill, so they get the famed skill cape. However, the problem is that this money came as a result of merchanting mostly, and this money was probably based off of high level alchemy. It is safe to assume that about half of the money was based on high-level alchemy, and all I ask is feedback on whether or not JAGEX ought to intervene, and alter requirements for alchemy, or if they should have an entirely different approach to this viable aspect of the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

not just rich merchants, but rich people. And how is this a problem anyways? Do you want to incrase the value of the currency? Make whips and everything else even more cheap than they already were? There really is no need for that kind of intervention.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This increase in demand is a very different factor which contributes to increase in price. In fact that helps explain any increase in price therefore showing that the increase was NOT due to inflation. And there's one key thing that happens if you harm alchemy in any way shape or form. The people who depend on it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is known as the unnemployment vs inflation debate in the real world and, although I am not a fan of using macroeconomic theories in runescape, I think this one fits to describe the problem to some degree. Basically, with inflation, lots of money is being produced, more is being produced than is being removed therefore leading to the imballance. But that's not a bad thing, in fact it has a huge advantage: It provides jobs for all the people who use alchemy and not only that but also all the runecrafters and woodcutters who help get the supply. If you harm alchemy, you harm 60 wc as a way to sell yews, you harm runecrafting as a profitable skill and you harm alchemy all of that in the name of solving a n unproven myth of dangerous inflation. Inflation is only dangerous if it is NOT controlled in the real world. In runescape, jagex have a lot more control, so it's very, very easy for them to create a leakage (or money sink, I just dislike that term) to ballance. This is done in the real world but in very different ways. Basically this keeps the inflation in check.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finally, I'm pretty sure people have no clue what dangerous inflation is as opposed to controlled inflation. If the prices of coal rise from 150-200 to 170 - 220, do we have to scream apocalype? No, because the economy is still standing. Hyperinflation would be coal rising from 150 to 30000 in the space of a day. In germany, during the cases of hyperinflation, the value of the paper had exeeded the value of money it represented. It caused tremendous problems, if you didn't get to the bank in time the money would be worthless the next morning. This was a terrible problem and was a very bad case of hyperinflation. Alchemy has been a job for a while now, and we have never in any way had any severe cases like this. The greatest increase in price was caused by pure ess, making ess go from 25-40 to 100-120 and even if that is more than double and caused some damage, the economy still stands. Harming alchemy would be just like pure ess all over again. Is that really something we want?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DISCLAIMER: I am NOT asking to remove alchemy, just to alter its requirements, in order lower the overall money brought into the game. Also, adding more money drains is not a way to combat this, as they would be optional, and may not have the full effect intended.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Destroying it will destroy a lot of ballance in the game, harming it will thus harm the ballance in the game. There is NO proven case of inflation yet, and the people who proclaim inflation as the end of the world all blame it on the increase in price of rares. Rares are very different cases which don't exactly follow the laws of supply and demand, so it's irrelevant to base a price average on them and use that to show a sustained rise in the price of everything.

[curmudgeony]

 

 

 

(Note:This figure is probably much higher, as alching 1k steel plates yields 1.2 million coins, something many smithers do.).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However to alch that amount of plates requires 1k natures, 5k iron ore and 10k coal. The costs of which--assuming you don't mine and craft your wares--works out to a little over 2.3million. Even if you craft 1k nats and mine all that iron, you're still 300k in the hole.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now you might mention the blast furnace, and yes that does reduce the cost of coal by half (still 750k for all that coal), however the cost for noting and unnoting coal and iron ore is a significant drain. Smithing as a moneymaker, like the hyperinflation in RS is a myth.

[x_bow80]

Once coal is 12k, then i will support autoers. Untill then, alching is fine, and should be kept that way.

[Ginger_Warrior]

As far as I know, alching does affect the RS economy because it magically creates heaps and heaps of money. Therefore, the worth of each GP becomes less and less, increasing inflation. But I don't know anything about economics - messes my head up :roll:

[kirbybeam]

As far as I know, alching does affect the RS economy because it magically creates heaps and heaps of money. Therefore, the worth of each GP becomes less and less, increasing inflation. But I don't know anything about economics - messes my head up :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For every alcher, there is someone recharging their crystal bow, repairing their barrows armor, buying mind runes in bulk from aubury, paying Sanbioch 875gp to get into Brimhaven dungeon \ , etc. etc. etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's money disappearing from the game.

[Agunimon979]

Many people don't realise but alching has a bigger impact on the game then we could ever imagine. It's just making money magically coming in to the game (Ha! Agunimon979 made a pun) and ALOT of people doing it.

[Solidus_77]

 

As far as I know, alching does affect the RS economy because it magically creates heaps and heaps of money. Therefore, the worth of each GP becomes less and less, increasing inflation. But I don't know anything about economics - messes my head up :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For every alcher, there is someone recharging their crystal bow, repairing their barrows armor, buying mind runes in bulk from aubury, paying Sanbioch 875gp to get into Brimhaven dungeon \ , etc. etc. etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's money disappearing from the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Correct, the ballance is between injections and leakages. The injections are things like alching, pickpocketing and the leakages (often called "money skings") are anything related to construction, and the shops.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many argue that the massive injections are off-setting the ballance.

[mchainmail]

 

 

 

 

(Note:This figure is probably much higher, as alching 1k steel plates yields 1.2 million coins, something many smithers do.).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However to alch that amount of plates requires 1k natures, 5k iron ore and 10k coal. The costs of which--assuming you don't mine and craft your wares--works out to a little over 2.3million. Even if you craft 1k nats and mine all that iron, you're still 300k in the hole.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now you might mention the blast furnace, and yes that does reduce the cost of coal by half (still 750k for all that coal), however the cost for noting and unnoting coal and iron ore is a significant drain. Smithing as a moneymaker, like the hyperinflation in RS is a myth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

while the smither loses 300k, the money he spent will stay in the economy, it just changes hands. however, the smither will also bring 1.2 million brand new gp into the economy.

[curmudgeony]

Well for one thing, the game needs more moneysinks. I don't quite understand why certain shop are always empty of products. If you have a product in a shop always at zero, why even have it sold in the firstplace?

 

 

 

Many of the big ticket items are thus, b/c you can only get them from other players.

[Solidus_77]

Well for one thing, the game needs more moneysinks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

stop. Why do we need more leakages? What danger are we facing? What might happen if nothing happens? and most importantly, why hasn't anything happened yet?

[willyhenriksen]

All games dies after a while, there will come to a point where Jagex abandons RS and lets the players reign. They will ignore RS and turn towards another project.

[Waffleh]

 

 

 

 

 

(Note:This figure is probably much higher, as alching 1k steel plates yields 1.2 million coins, something many smithers do.).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However to alch that amount of plates requires 1k natures, 5k iron ore and 10k coal. The costs of which--assuming you don't mine and craft your wares--works out to a little over 2.3million. Even if you craft 1k nats and mine all that iron, you're still 300k in the hole.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now you might mention the blast furnace, and yes that does reduce the cost of coal by half (still 750k for all that coal), however the cost for noting and unnoting coal and iron ore is a significant drain. Smithing as a moneymaker, like the hyperinflation in RS is a myth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

while the smither loses 300k, the money he spent will stay in the economy, it just changes hands. however, the smither will also bring 1.2 million brand new gp into the economy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hadn't thought of that before. All these calculations and figures hurt my small 8th grade mind. @_@

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, I think there should be some sort of quest or something to be able to high alch. OR maybe you need to have a Philosopher's Stone in your inventory to be able to do it. ^^ Just and idea...

[Ginger_Warrior]

There is an article from the Tip.It Times regarding inflation:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Inflation and the Runescape Economy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Been a while since I've read it, but I think I remember it being relevent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, we're not analysing causation here. We're looking for answers. I presonally don't know much about economics... they whole system confuses me. For example, why can't countries (in RL) just chop down heaps and heaps of trees, and then just print lots and lots of money? Then they'd be stinking rich? I know it's got something to do with the amount of real gold a country has but... who the heck notices these things? Economics confuses me so much! #-o

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Having said that, I do know of one way to reduce inflation in the economy. I look at the German post-Versailles Treaty for inspiration here. We all know about the situation then... prices literally doubled every 3 hours. At its worst time, the hyperinflation meant that one egg would cost 80,000,000 German Marks, and that's no exageration.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So how did Germany relieve itself from such a dire situation? Well one way I know that they used was an increase in taxation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If a government takes in money though taxation, it can ultimetely destroy this money. This leads to less money in the economy, so the worth of each unit of currency goes up. People have more faith that their currency is worth more, so they sell items for cheaper, and thus inflation is reduced. Indeed, Germany managed to solve this massive issue of inflation by nine months of it being at its worst.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now RS is obviously a lot different from the Real world, but inflation still ulitimetely runs the same. If Jagex were to put more ways of taking money out of the game, then each GP would become worth more, and inflation is reduced. There's a lot of talk about a 80/85/09+ armour sets. Maybe you could make these sets adequetely easy to get, but put an obscenely high price for each set. This is just one example of a money drain Jagex can use to reduce inflation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In answer to your question, the problem of inflation cannot be solved by players - the people in charge of RS, Jagex, need to intervene to actually physically take money away from players.

[themage173]

prices are going up because of more people playing the game andtons more money being introduced to the game (alching....which would eventually lower prices..)

[RpgGamer]

jagex has the inflation thing under control - what do you think construction was for? has no one else noticed that construction was basically a bottomless pit with a sign that said "put money here"? (feel free to quote that :wink:) hi alching is the only thing keeping runescapes economy from going bankrupt. well besides merchants, but technically merching doesn't add money to the game it just moves it around. yes more money is coming in the game then going, but im sure that will be solved somehow. perhaps a new money eating skill?

[darkforaster]

After reading the first and second pages, I am hoping that Solidus Hasn't left this thread.

 

 

 

As far as I know, alching does affect the RS economy because it magically creates heaps and heaps of money. Therefore, the worth of each GP becomes less and less, increasing inflation. But I don't know anything about economics - messes my head up :roll:

 

 

 

For every alcher, there is someone recharging their crystal bow, repairing their barrows armor, buying mind runes in bulk from aubury, paying Sanbioch 875gp to get into Brimhaven dungeon \ , etc. etc. etc.

 

 

 

That's money disappearing from the game.

 

 

 

Correct, the ballance is between injections and leakages. The injections are things like alching, pickpocketing and the leakages (often called "money skings") are anything related to construction, and the shops.

 

 

 

Many argue that the massive injections are off-setting the ballance.

 

 

 

Pretty much ANYTHING can be made using skills. and construction is optional. Does everyone do construction? No. does everyone buy the things they need. No. Sure, there are those who do it. But what about those who don't. Who make thier own items needed and didn't do construction. They can make masses of profit from alching.