Tradeable vs. Non-Tradeable

[Mordendravid]

I'm sure most people have noticed this already, but there seems to be a growing trend towards new items being untradeable. Recent updates have included:

 

 

 

• Lumberjack outfit
   
   
   
  Anchor
   
   
   
  Fighter Torso
   
   
   
  "winged helmet thing" - [edit] The Helm Of Neitziznot - thanks skully

 

 

 

I'm sure there are others as well, added to existing non-tradeables such as barrows gloves etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally I've got no issue with there being a quest requirement to equip certain items - Barrows gloves being a really good example. However, why not stick with the precedent made with dragon weapons? In other words you can buy, sell, drop or pick up a dragon weapon, but until you've completed the relevant quest you can't equip it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not a pker, so this isn't a whinge about the lack of profit I now get after I've "pwned j00", ahem. More a question as to why people who choose to play Barbarian Assault shouldn't be rewarded with a tradeable fighter torso, that they can sell for profit to reflect the 4 or so hours it takes to get the thing!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Equally, I have no intention of rambling anywhere near Burgh de Rott escorting the helpless/hapless wherever it is they have the urge to visit, BUT, I wouldn't mind having a lumberjack's outfit sat in my wardrobe doing not a lot. Why wouldn't this be tradeable as an incentive to play the game?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure if Jagex think "well if they have to do game X to get item Y then everyone will play game X" - they might, but they won't come back and do it again. Players want reward for the time spent in game, new items are great but one of the best bonuses about owning such an item first is you can sell it for a heap of cash (e.g. D2H etc).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So long as the item is desirable - such as the fighter torso, people will return to get another/multiple since they can see a value in terms of GP. In the long run this will lead to a greater population and longevity of mini games - see Barrows as the perfect example of this. Imagine if Barrows sets were untradeable! How many people would be playing there now?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thoughts?

[Rudyaard]

good point there...

 

 

 

as for the barrows armour, I think I'd camp there anyway... it would be a little more status with all barrows sets then :twisted:

[armadillo48]

The "winged helmet thing" from fremmenik trials is tradable now i believe...

[Skully]

The "winged helmet thing" from fremmenik trials is tradable now i believe...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, The Helm Of Neitziznot is tradable. #-o

[rft]

I agree particularly with respect to the fighter torso on this one. BA is a minigame that is quite a lot of fun, but after spending hours trying to get the fighter torso, you have earned precicely zero xp, and people would feel that doing something else is much more preferable (i.e. they can see a tangible improvement in their character after doing a minigame/skill). The fact that you cant even earn money from this minigame makes it pretty dire too, I think that the granite plate is an exception to this.

 

 

 

Hence, making the torso tradeable is a pretty good idea and makes it worthwhile getting. In this case you could argue that you cant wear/wield it until you have defeated the queen at least once.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, I think that I have to disagree in general with your thoughts though. Some things shouldnt just be available to the rich. Being able to wear a non-tradeable earnable item is a status symbol (like a chompy hat). Similarly, some things that give direct skilling benefits such as the lumberjack gear imo should be also be earned (I'm thinking of doing the ramble myself just to earn this gear - I wouldnt go near it otherwise). For weapons and armour that are likely to be taken into the wildy should all be treadeable as there has to be some risk vs reward for all parties involved (skillcapes excepted).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Generally I think that the balance is pretty good between tradeable and non-tradeable items. People make a huge fuss over the torso, but hardly anyone wears it (esp in wildy) as the defence bonuses are pretty lame, and dont really offset the +4 str that it gives you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is in fact a viable 'wildy inv' consisting of boots of lightness, penance gloves, skillcape, skillcape hood, fighter torso, barrows gloves, camo/mime/lumberjack trousers. I can't think of anything untradeable in the necklace or ring slot though. (maybe a quest item like glarials amulet and ring of charos). Imagine the pker killing you just to get bones lol!

[Mordendravid]

 

 

 

However, I think that I have to disagree in general with your thoughts though. Some things shouldnt just be available to the rich. Being able to wear a non-tradeable earnable item is a status symbol (like a chompy hat). Similarly, some things that give direct skilling benefits such as the lumberjack gear imo should be also be earned (I'm thinking of doing the ramble myself just to earn this gear - I wouldnt go near it otherwise). For weapons and armour that are likely to be taken into the wildy should all be treadeable as there has to be some risk vs reward for all parties involved (skillcapes excepted).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do agree that there should be non-tradeable items such as the chompy hat which is indeed a status symbol, equally gold castle wars armour is correctly non-tradeable. However, I can buy fishing potions, a slayer mask, gloves of silence, dwarven stouts and spottier capes all of which give bonuses to certain skills - why shouldn't I be able to buy lumberjack clothes?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll also bet that you don't go back for a ramble in Burgh de Rott once you've got your lumberjack kit! If you could sell "full lumberjack" for 50k, 100k, 200k (or whatever the price might be) I'm sure you'd be much more tempted!

[Huta]

 

 

 

 

However, I think that I have to disagree in general with your thoughts though. Some things shouldnt just be available to the rich. Being able to wear a non-tradeable earnable item is a status symbol (like a chompy hat). Similarly, some things that give direct skilling benefits such as the lumberjack gear imo should be also be earned (I'm thinking of doing the ramble myself just to earn this gear - I wouldnt go near it otherwise). For weapons and armour that are likely to be taken into the wildy should all be treadeable as there has to be some risk vs reward for all parties involved (skillcapes excepted).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do agree that there should be non-tradeable items such as the chompy hat which is indeed a status symbol, equally gold castle wars armour is correctly non-tradeable. However, I can buy fishing potions, a slayer mask, gloves of silence, dwarven stouts and spottier capes all of which give bonuses to certain skills - why shouldn't I be able to buy lumberjack clothes?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll also bet that you don't go back for a ramble in Burgh de Rott once you've got your lumberjack kit! If you could sell "full lumberjack" for 50k, 100k, 200k (or whatever the price might be) I'm sure you'd be much more tempted!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And making that 200k takes two or three hours? If it was tradeable nobody would earn it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you don't believe me, look at the mage training arena. Not very populated. As a result of infinity being tradeable nobody does the training arena, and there isn't very much infinity in circulation. People can make better money other ways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If lumberjack was tradeable, it would be the same situation. Barely any around, and nobody ends up earning it themselves.

[arkwelded]

i like the idea of the anchor thing. it is an untradable item that now drops coins if you pk the person using it. there is no reason other items such as fire capes, skill capes, penance gear, recipe gloves, and even items like excalibur and silver light should not do this. the only items that need to be an exculded are ones that are free like family crest gloves, ring of charos and flight hat/jacket.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ huta,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

no one does the mage arena because it is a very intensive and laborious thing to do, not to mention the nerfed the mage xp :roll: .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the reason infinity has not gone down in price is the same reason fury amulets are stable. that is the price of runes and time to get that item. until something changes the price of runes, those items will be very rigid in the cost and availibility.

[rft]

Well you do make an interesting few points there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem that I have is that Jagex have to encourage people to try out their new minigames once in a while. Too many people will look at them and assess a) rewards, B) financial gain c) xp gain. If these are not sufficient, then people simply wont do the minigame. Now this is where untradeable items come in. Giving a unique reward which people have to earn if they want to wield it is a good incentive for people to play the minigame.

 

 

 

The counter-argument of course is that more people will play it if the reward is tradeable, thus giving people the opportunity to earn decent money. However, if the item is too easy to get, then everyone will get it, then it becomes a worthless money-maker, and still no-one does the minigame.

 

 

 

rewards such as the lumberjack kit should stay untradeable along with the fighter torso as it represents a considerable effort to get. Compare this with the gloves of silence (or spottier cape). These are very easy to get, either from getting the required hunter level or just buying them from other players, and as such, dont really represent an effort to acquire.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll also bet that you don't go back for a ramble in Burgh de Rott once you've got your lumberjack kit! If you could sell "full lumberjack" for 50k, 100k, 200k (or whatever the price might be) I'm sure you'd be much more tempted!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you are absolutely right here. Of course if the gear was tradeable, then I would just pick up a set on the market and save myself a couple of hours. But I reckon that Jagex feel that they have put a lot of time and effort into their minigames and want to see people playing them, not leaving them all barren, given the investment in time and resources they have put in.

 

 

 

Now, I admit that when I saw the Temple Trekking update (never bothered with the first one either) I had no interest in doing it. However, I might actually find that I enjoy doing it, or that the other rewards (not lumberjack gear) are pretty decent and offer a nice variation in gameplay. How else am I ever going to find any of this out unless I actually give it a try, and I have incentive because there are decent rewards on offer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is why intermediate-long minigames such as BA and Temple Trekking should have untradeable items as a reward. Quest items and skill-made items should be tradeable, and like you say, wieldable only once the person you have traded/lost to has completed the quest/is a certain skill level.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just to add to the comment Huta made, I do the mage training area. I do often see people around there, the main reason being that infinity is worth several million a piece, and it is not a bad way of training your magic skills either. Because infinity is so hard to get(10+ hours per piece?), if it wasnt tradeable, then nobody would ever do the minigame as each piece takes far too long to acquire. I think that the lumberjack gear is slightly different as it is much easier to get (in terms of the length of time taken). Interesting analogy though.

[Mordendravid]

 

 

 

 

I do agree that there should be non-tradeable items such as the chompy hat which is indeed a status symbol, equally gold castle wars armour is correctly non-tradeable. However, I can buy fishing potions, a slayer mask, gloves of silence, dwarven stouts and spottier capes all of which give bonuses to certain skills - why shouldn't I be able to buy lumberjack clothes?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll also bet that you don't go back for a ramble in Burgh de Rott once you've got your lumberjack kit! If you could sell "full lumberjack" for 50k, 100k, 200k (or whatever the price might be) I'm sure you'd be much more tempted!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And making that 200k takes two or three hours? If it was tradeable nobody would earn it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you don't believe me, look at the mage training arena. Not very populated. As a result of infinity being tradeable nobody does the training arena, and there isn't very much infinity in circulation. People can make better money other ways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If lumberjack was tradeable, it would be the same situation. Barely any around, and nobody ends up earning it themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fair point huta, but that's when it comes down to desirability of the item vs. the amount of time it takes to get it. Would I spend 10hours completing a quest/mini game to get full Guthans if it weren't tradeable? Yes because of the massive benefits. Do I want a set of rainbow-coloured robes that give only an additional +10 bonus over mystic that I couldn't possibly wear anywhere I was afraid to lose them due to the cost? Not really. [edit] PS don't let Laikrob see this bit!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is a really tough balance though, because as you say, there is always the opportunity cost of obtaining tradeable items. If something takes a set amount of time, say 2hrs then unless the item is worth 400-600k+ people won't do it as they can make better money elsewhere. That's why barrows works so well, and also why I don't mine my own pure ess :D

[Wachtwoord]

I think the best compromis is to make the item tradeble, but only weareble after you achieved X. A bit like the dragon items, but it shouldn't be sold in a shop. (Some things, like the torso, would need a bit harder to achieve though) This would keep people interested in the game and you will still need to achieve something to get it.

[mojo477]

i like the idea of the anchor thing. it is an untradable item that now drops coins if you pk the person using it. there is no reason other items such as fire capes, skill capes, penance gear, recipe gloves, and even items like excalibur and silver light should not do this. the only items that need to be an exculded are ones that are free like family crest gloves, ring of charos and flight hat/jacket.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ huta,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

no one does the mage arena because it is a very intensive and laborious thing to do, not to mention the nerfed the mage xp :roll: .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the reason infinity has not gone down in price is the same reason fury amulets are stable. that is the price of runes and time to get that item. until something changes the price of runes, those items will be very rigid in the cost and availibility.

 

 

 

well i agree with some but not with things you can get for free because that means you can basicly get free cash but barrows gloves which cost 130k is ok to drop it high alch value which is like 60k maybe 40k as shop value

[atestarossa]

i would really say about the same as what was said earlier, the lumberjack clothes, if they where trade-able, then i would probably just buy them, instead of doing the minigame again. because you have to see, some people doing a mini-game one day, to get an item, is better than that no-one goes there, because they can buy it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

also, the price on them would be pretty low, as the xp boost from these is really low (6xp per mage log, that's the most) and price would go down, demand would go down a lot, and bring the prices down too, then supply goes down, because no-one sees it worth the hassle to get them, and therefore it again get's impossible to buy. (like, err, say a addy warhammer, no-one uses it, no-one makes it, not counting the addy warhammer i'm going to alch, that i just got from a troll)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if it keeps this way though, it will be more people getting it, yes a lot of people won't see it worth it, but quite many will get it, as it will show the achievement of having done the mini-game enough to get those clothes, even if the useness of the item is poor

[Smapla]

The helmet of neitzoit is tradable now... isn't it? Or atleast you can claim it from your dead victims when you kill them.

[Celt23]

I can agree with making them tradeable and having a quest requirement, but just letting people buy them with no quest requirement would be stupid.

[blouinator]

now i could be wrong but alot of stuff starts out untradbel then go trable few examples(i think these used to be non trabele)

 

 

 

death tally

 

 

 

elemental tally

 

 

 

nature ammy

[n64jive]

I think jagex is trying to get rid of the play the update as fast as you can to try and get the new item to sell it for a load of cash and then later have the prices of that item fall dramastically method. Just think, all recent decent armour and weapons are untradable, the tradeable armour in the new treasure trails is so rare that they won't fall very fast...I dunno what jagex's ordeal is.

[Hevendor_Guy]

IMO Jagex should do to Fighter Torso, Rune defender (and all of them for that matter), and Barrows Gloves what they did to the anchor. Each should, when dropped by death, equal a certain amount of cash. This would please pkers, and up the wild's popularity, which it needs desperately.

[Freesia]

BUT, I wouldn't mind having a lumberjack's outfit sat in my wardrobe doing not a lot. Why wouldn't this be tradeable as an incentive to play the game?

All the more people would not play the game this way. People are lazy and they will just buy it. The people that can offer more gets it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure if Jagex think "well if they have to do game X to get item Y then everyone will play game X" - they might, but they won't come back and do it again. Players want reward for the time spent in game, new items are great but one of the best bonuses about owning such an item first is you can sell it for a heap of cash (e.g. D2H etc).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So long as the item is desirable - such as the fighter torso, people will return to get another/multiple since they can see a value in terms of GP. In the long run this will lead to a greater population and longevity of mini games - see Barrows as the perfect example of this. Imagine if Barrows sets were untradeable! How many people would be playing there now?

I believe players only play a boring minigame if it presents a reward they desire so much and I don't think they will make such a way their way of moneymaking. Face it, there are tons better ways to make money in P2P and they don't have to keep doing this