Runescape Exposed - Article

[supercanon14]

how much more do you want to make this game more babyier?! if you miss type 1 word it gets bleeped out yes you can get hacked/lyed to /scamed but thats your falt for playing if you are five years of age it clearley says that you need to be at least 13 years old if you want me to spell it for you here it is thirteen ok this guy that wrote that is a idiet

[qeltar]

it clearley says that you need to be at least 13 years old if you want me to spell it for you here it is thirteen ok this guy that wrote that is a idiet

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The word is "idiot". :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And if it's for those over thirteen, why is it being marketed towards pre-teens?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

[supercanon14]

ok sorry if i duble posted but i have CS:S in my house and even thow i'm not 17+ i still play it my parent don't care expacely my dad ...mom pays a little more attention as long as it don't have nudety lauange and vilance thay realy couldn't care less but this author does have a point in the 2 artacal still got to read it all...

[supercanon14]

 

it clearley says that you need to be at least 13 years old if you want me to spell it for you here it is thirteen ok this guy that wrote that is a idiet

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The word is "idiot". :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And if it's for those over thirteen, why is it being marketed towards pre-teens?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

fear my bad spelling and grammar :twisted:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hmm jagex is realy loseing it i see the artacal 2 realy makes senence then number 1

[trunksrs]

 

People really need to stop pointing fingers and step up and take responsibility for their own mistakes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes.. Jagex needs to do thiis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I really don't see Jagex pointing any fingers. And if you mean they need to take responsibilties for their actions:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Admitting that they were wrong to allow luring and changing their rules to consider it a scam was being responsible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Putting more and more warning signs on the wilderness was being responsible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Making updates like the stronghold of security to teach people how to protect their accounts was being responsible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Loosing ad revenue by replacing some ads with security tips was being responsible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Changing the terms of service saying to say you shouldn't play unless you are 13 was being responsible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, in my last post, I made several arguments as to why people need to stop pointing fingers at Jagex, and your only rebuttal was "Well, Jagex are the ones that need to be responsible"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the second page, the author clearly states that this book is by Jagex LTD. It's really not an official copy, and it's not even close to complete from what I've heard -- mostly goes over freeplay and things that 90% of the players didn't already know. I want to know how you can take that source and deem it as credible. Since I can see that this source did not come from Jagex themselves, why would anything that they say be taken literally? (Okay, so the book says the game's for all ages. So what?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you have the book?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is official. It was produced by Jagex, they are the copyright holder. And they are marketing it to kids and pre-teens.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This book is not by Jagex. First of all, if it were, they surely would try to sell the members version of the game, not just go through the free version. Second, the author describes the game as "the medieval world of RuneScape". Jagex has stated several times that their game does not take place in a medieval time period, and I highly doubt they would refer to it as such here. Third, it is published by Scholastic, and I'm pretty sure Jagex would find a publisher more suited to their product. Also, if they were the ones making the book, then it would be extra profit for them, and you can bet they would be advertising it on their site. Finally, the author is Tracey West. The Jagex corporate site lists all people working on RuneScape, and West is nowhere mentioned. Not only that, but West has also written several other books, including a nice heaping pile of Pokemon books. I don't think someone could officially work for 2 different game companies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you need more evidence, look at the book cover.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is clearly derived from this wallpaper image.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Notice the differences. If it was made by Jagex, they would have just used their own copyrighted picture. However, since it is not by Jagex, A new cover image had to be made.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A kid and their parents do need to be aware of what they're getting into, but you make it seem like murder, [assault] and pillaging are taking place all over the game when it's honestly just a handful of misbehaving children.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a lot more than a "handful".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again dodging the argument brought up, by focusing on one word that was not the best suited choice. The arguments against Jagex are severly exhadurated(sp?) while only a small percentage are misbehaving. Walk through Varrock, out of the hundreds of people on any one server, how many of them are actually going out of there way to scam and cause problems?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Same thing with the Player Moderator subject. I'll somewhat agree with you on the Jagex Moderator issue -- their presence isn't felt much, and I've only seen about three in four years of playing -- but the player moderators that you say are not setting the example are the select minority -- and the ones that are quite severe on the matter are usually terminated as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The player moderators were mentioned only peripherally. My main point was not criticizing them but simply pointing out that they are effectively powerless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex needs to manage its own game, not push the job off on players who can't do much of anything anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You say they don't do anything to make the game better, then criticize one of the steps they took. RuneScape is a community. It is the duty of the members of the community to make sure things are running smoothly. The fact that they were invited as a mod is proof that they have helped rulebreakers get caught, and are therefore given a bit more power. Player mods are completely voluntary positions taken by people who have done more than their fair share to help clean up. Should a government use military to keep order instead of a police force with a great deal less authority?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure that Jagex is working on a way to resolve the Customer Support issues. And I'm also sure that they're trying to work on that Construction bug.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, it's only been resulting in people getting scammed for what, 10 months now?

They have warned people about scams with player owned houses, and have told people to be careful what to take into other people's houses. Yes, more could be done, and they are taking steps to resolve the problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. Do you know how complex that module alone is to maintain, let alone build?

 

 

 

 

 

 

How much work does it take to post an announcement warning people not to take expensive items into others' houses -- compared to writing an Easter event or overhauling the poll system?

Again, they have posted warnings about this. They have even made it their policy to not allow people to announce events that take place outside of the party house in seers village. The do periodically, for no real apparent reason, post security reminders.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. Do you have *any* experience with programming Java and/or C++?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Only regular C. Again -- relevance? Am I taking in 50 million clams a year and telling people that I value stopping scams as a priority?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are saying they are not trying to fix problems with the game. If you have no experiance, how do you know how hard it is to fix these problems. They have to search lines upon lines of code, sometimes looking for nothing more than a misplaced period or a ( instead or a {

[elishot]

I think all that needs to be said has been said already.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex clearly states that you should not be playing the game if you are under 13, and if the parents plays with their >13 child, then there wouldn't have to be any worry about anything in that article because the parent is there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the parent neglects to do that, it is their own fault and it is irresponsible of them to point fingers at Jagex. Its the same idea if a mother lets her 5 year old go play outside and shes in the house ignoring it, what happens when it falls down and gets a boo-boo?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are worse things on TV and most kids I know below age 13 have their own TV in their room, is this person pointing fingers at FX when the child sees Nip/Tuck and wants to copy the naughty scenes that they do in it? or repeat the cuss words? No. If the parent does not want the child seeing something like this, they put on the V-chip or block out the station using other devices.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whats the difference from if a child finds inappropriate pictures while surfing the net unsupervised?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IMO it all comes down to that one word *unsupervised*.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As much as I'm against parents smothering their kids from the real world (for the most part, please do not pick apart my words and think that I mean extremely drastic things.), if a parent is going to [bleep] then they need to DO SOMETHING, not try to ruin it for others who are mature and can handle things.

 

 

 

_

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Qeltar, isn't it a bit rude to correct someones spelling because you can not think of a counter argument?

[trunksrs]

Well, I have began reading part 2, and have found several problems with you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're being very loyal with these apologetics, but you don't have the facts on your side.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's see what facts are on your side.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps the most irritating aspect of the scams in RuneScape is that Jagex could eliminate many of the most common ones with easy, quick code changes. Dedicated players who want Jagex to safeguard newer, younger players from scams watch month after month as the changes never take place, while the company devotes its resources to enhancements that have no real impact on gameplay, or seem designed only to make the company more money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For example, a large number of scammers make last-second changes to item quantities or types in the trade interface. Jagex could program the trade window to impose a mandatory five-second pause before the user can hit "Accept" any time a change is made, which would eliminate most of those scams.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hence the second trade window, where it is impossible to change your offers. I quick look at the list will tell you exactly what you are getting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, many items in the game look like each other, which could easily be rectified. Countless players have asked for these changes, and they are still waiting while thousands fall victim to these and other scams every day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many items? How many high demand items in the game "look like each other" The ones that have in the past, such as dragon and bronze weapons, have had graphic changes. And, again, there is a very handy second trade window that writes out what the item is instead of using a picture.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Likewise, many scams occur because players unwittingly go into the Wilderness and get attacked by other players. Jagex has been given dozens of suggestions for how to fix this, but has not implemented them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I big pop-up window that makes your character stop moving, and clearly tells you if you go any further north, you can get attacked by other players gives no warning that you can be attacked by other platers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another common scam involved sellers substituting a cheap spear for a high-level warspear that was worth over six-million gold. It took over a year of requests, complaints and outright begging before Jagex finally removed this scam by making the cheaper spear untradeable - even though the change required only a few minutes' work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First of all, how much programming does the author know for them to be able to state that said change only requires a few minutes? And again, there is a second trade screen, where you cannot make a switch, and it had clearly written out the name of the spear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

....Consider player-owned houses, in which players are supposed to be able to engage in safe combat. Jagex claims that, and I quote, "you cannot die in your house or a friend's house. If you die you will respawn safely and retain all items."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reality is that bugs in this feature make it possible for scammers to kill players in houses and take their items from them. People have been falling victim to this scam for ages, yet Jagex still hasn't fixed it. Even worse, the company leaves the quote about "respawning safely" above on its site, and refuses to warn players about the problem. Why?....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see any evidence here that the poster has any clue at all as to how this bug works. And, as I have stated, they have warned about this bug, though, I admit, they should be sure to have a reminder so newer players are aware of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

his Parent's Guide does a disservice to parents trying to decide if this game is appropriate for their kids. I've made references to some of its inconsistencies and omissions elsewhere in the article; here is a summary of some of the most important issues:....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is no warning that the game is unsuitable for children under the age of 13; instead, there are three references to the game being for "all ages."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

we only recommend the game for players aged 13+ (i.e. if you wouldn't want your kids to watch "Lord of the Rings", you probably wouldn't want them to play RuneScape).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The game is portrayed as being "educational" but doesn't cover all the negative things that kids learn, as described in Part 1 of this article.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I said early, it is a very drastic stretch to say that a game is actually teaching people that it is ok to steal and murder. It would be one thing if it actually taught you how to pick locks and pockets, but it doesn't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex plays up the abuse reporting function, even though it is in many cases nearly useless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The author downplays the report system several times. It isn't that bad. They have already changed the way 0s appear so they don't look like Os, and I know a good bit of players who didn't like the way the 0s looked. And it has never taken me so long to figure out how many spaces I needed that I could not longer report someone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The chat filter is portrayed as being very effective when it is anything but.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd like to see the author right up a better chat system. I feel the one they have in place does a great job of blocking inappropriate language, if not a bit overzealous.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is no specific information on how new players can avoid popular scams, or how to deal with the rampant verbal abuse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe a good solution would be to provide a link in the parents guide to another guide about avoiding scams.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, we would like to draw your attention to our Scamming Prevention guide and Security Information pages.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And some information about how to report people for verbal attacks, as well as a warning that when playing with thousands of other players, there is a possibility that someone could verbally attack you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The mention of staff moderators implies active supervision in the game by Jagex employees, which is in fact close to non-existent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the parents guide has a link to get more information about player mods, where it goes into alot more detail about what they do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see how the facts are on your side.

[Sly_Wizard]

I'm pretty sure I said this one page 7, but there are a tons of much worse things that you child could be doing than playing Runescape; Such as watching TV. If you don't want your child to play Runescape, then there's a really simple solution. It's called pressing the 'X' at the top right of the screen :thumbsup:

[ChickyBee32]

The main thing that struck me about the article was the comment about 'reasonable playing time' and the complaint that Jagex doesn't tell you what is a reasonable amount of time to play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is reasonable for one, isn't for another. I have played Runescape on and off for many years and the amount of time I played depended on which stage of life I was at. As a highschool student, 2 hours on weekends if my assignments were done. As an unemployed, unmotivated, 20 years old, six hours a day - usually between 10pm & 4am. As a full time worker? A few hours most evenings, depending on what time my partner finished work. As a full time mother? Three hours on the evening my partner works when my son has gone to bed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like a lot of other complaints in the article, time spent playing is at player or parental discretion. Perhaps if parents tried actually parenting their children now days instead of leaving it up electronic baby sitters, there'd be a lot less complaining about avoidable situations.

[InsaneChef]

Rubbish. My 8 year old brother (played before the age rules) used to play, and nothing bad happened to him. A 18 year old is just as easily scammed as a 8 year old, younger usually have an advantage as they're usually obilivious to stuff around them. (he got insult for like half an hour before, but I put chat off and laughed my [wagon] of as he ignored him). :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyone can enjoy it as long as someone older makes it safe for them. I never let him out of my site, etc. It's not hard to make sure they're safe.

[qeltar]

 

 

 

Admitting that they were wrong to allow luring and changing their rules to consider it a scam was being responsible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes.. but they did this only after first trying to ABDICATE that responsibility, which was theirs all along. They only changed due to pressure by people like myself who were outraged that they did what was convenient for them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Making updates like the stronghold of security to teach people how to protect their accounts was being responsible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I give full credit to Jagex for their efforts on preventing account scamming. It's one area they do well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Loosing ad revenue by replacing some ads with security tips was being responsible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not really. Nobody pays attention to those ads, and they likely did that because a huge percentage of the people who want to advertise on a place like Runescape are trying to run ads to get people to break the game's rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Changing the terms of service saying to say you shouldn't play unless you are 13 was being responsible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, they did that because they were forced to by US law.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, in my last post, I made several arguments as to why people need to stop pointing fingers at Jagex, and your only rebuttal was "Well, Jagex are the ones that need to be responsible"

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason is simple: it's Jagex's game and only they can fix many of the problems. Only Jagex can educate people better, fix bugs, prevent scams, and stop advertising the game to kids, for example.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This book is not by Jagex.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is. It was confirmed in a thread in the RS forums by a forum mod. It was also discussed at length here, and several people talked to J mods who confirmed their involvement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most importantly, the copyright notice credits the book to Jagex Limited.

 

 

 

 

 

 

First of all, if it were, they surely would try to sell the members version of the game, not just go through the free version.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This has been addressed in discussions -- they didn't because the members world changes too much and would have made the book too large.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And gee, "coincidentally", the free game is the version most played by kids.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Second, the author describes the game as "the medieval world of RuneScape". Jagex has stated several times that their game does not take place in a medieval time period, and I highly doubt they would refer to it as such here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are references to Runescape being medieval right on the Runescape site.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Third, it is published by Scholastic, and I'm pretty sure Jagex would find a publisher more suited to their product.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, but they didn't -- and that's precisely the problem. They chose a publisher known for kids books, and the book is being marketed towards kids.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, if they were the ones making the book, then it would be extra profit for them, and you can bet they would be advertising it on their site.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They might, if they didn't want it to be patently obvious that they are being hypocrites in marketing the game to people whom they officially claim are not allowed to make accounts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finally, the author is Tracey West. The Jagex corporate site lists all people working on RuneScape, and West is nowhere mentioned. Not only that, but West has also written several other books, including a nice heaping pile of Pokemon books. I don't think someone could officially work for 2 different game companies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's not the way book authoring works, especially in this market. Tracey West doesn't work for any one game company, she is a freelance author, who specializes in taking cartoons and games and writing books about them under license.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you need more evidence, look at the book cover.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is clearly derived from this wallpaper image.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Notice the differences. If it was made by Jagex, they would have just used their own copyrighted picture. However, since it is not by Jagex, A new cover image had to be made.

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the contrary -- the fact that they are nearly identical goes against your argument. Copyright law covers clearly derivative works, which the cover certainly is. If it had been used without permission, the author of the book would be wide open to a lawsuit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And you can be sure that Scholastic's lawyers wouldn't let any images be used without permission.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finally, do you own the book? I bet not, or you wouldn't be making these foolish arguments. It is filled with pictures and descriptions taken from the game and KB.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again dodging the argument brought up, by focusing on one word that was not the best suited choice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not dodging anything, just trying to avoid wasting time on repeated arguments, which nobody ever responds to. I've agreed since the start that parents need to be responsible for what their kids do, but they can't do a good job when Jagex doesn't provide them with the information they need, and then markets the game direct to their kids.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The arguments against Jagex are severly exhadurated(sp?) while only a small percentage are misbehaving. Walk through Varrock, out of the hundreds of people on any one server, how many of them are actually going out of there way to scam and cause problems?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Depends on the server.. on some it is quite a few.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You say they don't do anything to make the game better, then criticize one of the steps they took.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did not say that. Don't misquote me, it certainly doesn't help anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is the duty of the members of the community to make sure things are running smoothly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, it is not -- it is Jagex's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Should a government use military to keep order instead of a police force with a great deal less authority?

 

 

 

 

 

 

The police are Jagex. Player mods are like unarmed security guards that people ignore as they see fit. Go to world 2 sometime and you'll see tons of player mods happily buying and selling next to people autotyping, trying bone swap scams and more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex needs to enforce its rules, not cop out with player mods who really cannot do anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They have warned people about scams with player owned houses, and have told people to be careful what to take into other people's houses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not that I've seen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To this day the KB says that they are safe and that you cannot lose items in them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, they have posted warnings about this. They have even made it their policy to not allow people to announce events that take place outside of the party house in seers village.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're kidding, right? They undid that decision months ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Go to the RS forums and search for "house", and you'll find dozens of them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, you can try to defend them all you want, but nothing changes the facts that the bugs are still there months after they should have been corrected, and Jagex refuses to warn people properly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are saying they are not trying to fix problems with the game. If you have no experiance, how do you know how hard it is to fix these problems. They have to search lines upon lines of code, sometimes looking for nothing more than a misplaced period or a ( instead or a {

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a bachelor's degree in computer engineering, a master's degree in electrical engineering/computer science and another in management. I started programming in 1980 and have been a manager on several projects. I have a pretty good idea what I am talking about.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

[qeltar]

 

 

 

Hence the second trade window, where it is impossible to change your offers. I quick look at the list will tell you exactly what you are getting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not enough, and the proof is the thousands of people who fall victim to trade window scams every day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many items? How many high demand items in the game "look like each other"

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are quite a few common ones, which I describe at my site. I'm not going to list them here as I don't know it is allowed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Point being, they could be fixed with a few minutes' work, but apparently Jagex doesn't consider this important enough to bother with. (But redesigning chickens and cows? Very important!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I big pop-up window that makes your character stop moving, and clearly tells you if you go any further north, you can get attacked by other players gives no warning that you can be attacked by other platers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's insufficient for numerous reasons that have been discussed at length in numerous threads.

 

 

 

 

 

 

First of all, how much programming does the author know for them to be able to state that said change only requires a few minutes? And again, there is a second trade screen, where you cannot make a switch, and it had clearly written out the name of the spear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whether an item is tradeable or not is a single flag in the item's description.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally take credit for getting this one fixed, by the way. Not that others hadn't tried for months only to be ignored by Jagex -- but every time I saw Paul on the forums I started a thread about it and finally he noticed and responded. Two weeks later the problem was fixed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's no excuse for not fixing scams that are easily resolvable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see any evidence here that the poster has any clue at all as to how this bug works. And, as I have stated, they have warned about this bug, though, I admit, they should be sure to have a reminder so newer players are aware of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, where is this warning? I certainly have not seen it, and if I haven't, neither have a lot of others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the KB it says houses are safe. They aren't. Why?

 

 

 

 

 

 

we only recommend the game for players aged 13+ (i.e. if you wouldn't want your kids to watch "Lord of the Rings", you probably wouldn't want them to play RuneScape).

 

 

 

 

 

 

:mrgreen: They just added that page.... maybe today or yesterday. It wasn't there when I wrote my articles.. I again have a feeling Jagex is paying attention to what I'm doing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At any rate, talk is cheap. They (or their lawyers) can say whatever they wish, but things like the Handbook speak otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I said early, it is a very drastic stretch to say that a game is actually teaching people that it is ok to steal and murder. It would be one thing if it actually taught you how to pick locks and pockets, but it doesn't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't want to rehash part 1, but I was referring more to the behavior that the game teaches.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The author downplays the report system several times. It isn't that bad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally have reported someone for item scamming 8 times over the course of a week and even asked a player mod to report them, only to see the person there day after day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd like to see the author right up a better chat system. I feel the one they have in place does a great job of blocking inappropriate language, if not a bit overzealous.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I probably couldn't write a better one. I just wouldn't tell parents that it does more than it can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe a good solution would be to provide a link in the parents guide to another guide about avoiding scams.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But they won't do that -- it's why I wrote http://www.truthscape.com . They also cover up discussions of scams on the forums.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the parents guide has a link to get more information about player mods, where it goes into alot more detail about what they do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Player mods are a cop out. It's Jagex's game, and Jagex says that its staff are present in the game. They aren't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

[Greedom1]

 

 

 

 

we only recommend the game for players aged 13+ (i.e. if you wouldn't want your kids to watch "Lord of the Rings", you probably wouldn't want them to play RuneScape).

 

 

 

 

 

 

:mrgreen: They just added that page.... maybe today or yesterday. It wasn't there when I wrote my articles.. I again have a feeling Jagex is paying attention to what I'm doing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At any rate, talk is cheap. They (or their lawyers) can say whatever they wish, but things like the Handbook speak otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I get the sense that Jagex's lawyers really aren't earning their pay. Yes, gaming is supposed to be a GAME but given the status of their game and their company, I have been consistently disappointed with the professionalism of their company.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know I'm straying a bit off-topic with this... Though as much as I know many appreciate Jagex's efforts to have a handle on the pulse of the gaming community (and fan sites as well), some of their communications (posts on forums, notices of new quests/content) are horribly unprofessional.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I know it's a game and so the developers are allowed to be a bit loopy. However, there should be a big difference between the natural loopiness of the developers and the communication they have with their customers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you think I'm splitting hairs, consider the absurdity of "official" Jagex policy being listed on the forums rather than being posted in the main game screen. Jagex is remarkable in their efforts to let us in on a lot of what they are doing. However, sometimes I'd rather be left in the dark and see more mature/professional communications from them. (In forums or otherwise.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kudos to qeltar for pointing out in part 2 the problem about luring and their (initial) attempt to hide their official policy. Fine, Jagex may be filled with avid gamers, but they need to realize that they have responsibilities for even the youngest and stupidest of us, no matter how much they want to believe otherwise.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

 

 

 

 

On the second page, the author clearly states that this book is by Jagex LTD. It's really not an official copy, and it's not even close to complete from what I've heard -- mostly goes over freeplay and things that 90% of the players didn't already know. I want to know how you can take that source and deem it as credible. Since I can see that this source did not come from Jagex themselves, why would anything that they say be taken literally? (Okay, so the book says the game's for all ages. So what?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you have the book?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is official. It was produced by Jagex, they are the copyright holder. And they are marketing it to kids and pre-teens.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, I don't have the book. I'd consider it a waste of money since this is an online game, and 99% of its information can easily be found online...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And as another person pointed out, it's not an official copy. That someone else has indeed made books for other games.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A kid and their parents do need to be aware of what they're getting into, but you make it seem like murder, [assault] and pillaging are taking place all over the game when it's honestly just a handful of misbehaving children.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a lot more than a "handful".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a lot less than you think. Honestly. Out of an average 1,000 players on any given server, only 7-9% of them are actually acting up. And out of that 7-9%, at least 80% of them are punished. Don't dismiss the entire community by just a handful of players -- that's akin to throwing the entire wheat harvest away because of the chaff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Same thing with the Player Moderator subject. I'll somewhat agree with you on the Jagex Moderator issue -- their presence isn't felt much, and I've only seen about three in four years of playing -- but the player moderators that you say are not setting the example are the select minority -- and the ones that are quite severe on the matter are usually terminated as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The player moderators were mentioned only peripherally. My main point was not criticizing them but simply pointing out that they are effectively powerless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex needs to manage its own game, not push the job off on players who can't do much of anything anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Priority report queries, the ability to chat directly with Jagex staff, muting priviledges...I think that these are a bit more powerful than the normal player, don't you think? Sure, more should live up to the title of Player Moderator, but it's not like they're not entirely doing their job. I refer you to the previous statement of throwing the harvest away because of the chaff...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure that Jagex is working on a way to resolve the Customer Support issues. And I'm also sure that they're trying to work on that Construction bug.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, it's only been resulting in people getting scammed for what, 10 months now?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In C, have you ever tried to maintenance (and I'm estimating here -- Andrew did say once that there were over 1 million lines of code in the game) anywhere from 25,000 to 45,000 lines of code? And out of that, at least 60% is in Java? Have you ever taken that kind of mammoth project on before? If you have you'd know how hard it would be to tackle, let alone finish. Don't think that they can magically point to line 7786 of their script and say, "Oh! That bug has been fixed!"; they have to rewrite, compile, run, test, analyze, rewrite, compile, run, test...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Do you know how long it took for them to get Construction/Carpentry done in the first place?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Relevance?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Plenty. Construction/Carpentry was the largest update ever done to RS (the reason behind RS2 and RS2 v.1.1, or that little under-the-hood update about a month before release), and it's still a major work in progress. Had you known a time hierarchy, then perhaps you'd have some sort of idea how hard it would be to manage it. They have honestly been planning that skill since Classic!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. Do you know how complex that module alone is to maintain, let alone build?

 

 

 

 

 

 

How much work does it take to post an announcement warning people not to take expensive items into others' houses -- compared to writing an Easter event or overhauling the poll system?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't dodge the question. I asked if you had any idea how complex that module was to maintain. My guess, since you did beg this question, would be that you don't. It mostly boils down to common sense on the valuables as well -- don't take what you can't lose. Why should Jagex have to baby you about that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh. Before I forget -- managing Java or C++ modules is something totally different from managing a CGI poll on the website. One of them is significantly easier.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. Do you have *any* experience with programming Java and/or C++?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Only regular C. Again -- relevance? Am I taking in 50 million clams a year and telling people that I value stopping scams as a priority?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The relevance is that if you knew anything about these two languages, you'd understand how complex they can get -- imagine something as complex as over a million lines to manage and maintain. They honestly are trying to stop some scams; bugs are another issue. For the most part, they've upheld their part of the deal with scamming and what-not. Bugs are another factor altogether, but like I said, that massive module of code that is involved with other parts of the game...now that'll take a while to fix. Sit tight and don't chastise them if you don't know what they have to put up with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Instead of nitpicking, how about you report some of these bugs so that development could get to fixing them faster? And don't try to play it off like, "Oh they're well known, so why don't they know?". They have other jobs in different parts of the game too, you know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've reported many myself. Others I know have been reporting them for months.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're being very loyal with these apologetics, but you don't have the facts on your side.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's see what facts you have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Instead of complaining that not much is being done, take the active side and do something about it instead of nitpick and moan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Do something". Such as?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but I did do something -- I did more than anyone else I know ever has.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't toot your own horn -- you're just nitpicking right now. Also, from what I can tell, you're not really doing a very decent job at it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One more thing, why should Jagex really have to baby their members? Gambling, thieving, death, and lying...you honestly make it sound like it's a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah when it's nothing that a quick tap of the Report Abuse button can't fix. If you honestly feel so strongly about these things, why don't you pick up a game where such elements don't exist?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Besides that, if the parents of the younger children really didn't want their kids messing with this, they wouldn't go any further with it and would definitely block the site out. Quit putting the parental responsibilities on Jagex and put them where they belong.

[Greedom1]

Ugh. Clearly the debate forum isn't for me. Filled with posts that both entice, inspire, annoy, and overall frustrate me beyond belief.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Focus on only a couple of points at a time folks! I enjoy lurking, and would like to comment but don't want to do so for a post that covers the bases about 4 times over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That said, all of you have your facts wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's springtime outside, and most likely the weather will be nice in the next week. Take a step or two out the door, take a breath. Ahhhhhhh. Then come back in and you can feel free to debate the hell out of each other. At least you'll be refreshed. :wink:

[qeltar]

 

 

 

No, I don't have the book. I'd consider it a waste of money since this is an online game, and 99% of its information can easily be found online...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Correct, it's a waste of money from that standpoint.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I bought it specifically so that I could check it out and speak about it from first-hand knowledge, not because I needed the content.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And it is most certainly an official book with Jagex Limited as the copyright holder.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And as another person pointed out, it's not an official copy. That someone else has indeed made books for other games.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You, like that other person, simply have no idea what you are talking about. See my post at the top of this page which addresses this "not an official copy" apologetics falsehood.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Out of an average 1,000 players on any given server, only 7-9% of them are actually acting up. And out of that 7-9%, at least 80% of them are punished.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those sound like numbers you made up. Even so, it's a LOT of people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for being punished, I see the same scammers active day after day after day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Priority report queries, the ability to chat directly with Jagex staff, muting priviledges...I think that these are a bit more powerful than the normal player, don't you think?

 

 

 

 

 

 

A "bit" more powerful? Yes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A substitute for the company actually doing what it claims and patrolling its own game? Definitely not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In C, have you ever tried to maintenance (and I'm estimating here -- Andrew did say once that there were over 1 million lines of code in the game) anywhere from 25,000 to 45,000 lines of code? And out of that, at least 60% is in Java?

 

 

 

 

 

 

How long does it take to put up a new entry saying "There are ongoing bugs with POHs that we have not yet resolved, so do not take valuable items into other people's houses".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5 minutes?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stop obfuscating. They have implemented humongous amounts of code while letting bugs sit for long periods of time, not fixing them and not warning about them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Plenty.

 

 

 

 

 

 

None.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It mostly boils down to common sense on the valuables as well -- don't take what you can't lose. Why should Jagex have to baby you about that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because they claim that POHs are safe. They aren't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's see what facts you have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They're in the thread and in my articles.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Instead of complaining that not much is being done, take the active side and do something about it instead of nitpick and moan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Do something". Such as?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but I did do something -- I did more than anyone else I know ever has.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't toot your own horn -- you're just nitpicking right now. Also, from what I can tell, you're not really doing a very decent job at it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the peurile insults, but I notice you didn't answer my question about what it is you think I should do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, if anyone is doing more than I am, please tell me who they are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

One more thing, why should Jagex really have to baby their members?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because their game is filled with little kids, because they promise a safe gaming environment, and they are marketing their game at pre-teens in schools. That's why.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you honestly feel so strongly about these things, why don't you pick up a game where such elements don't exist?

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is as nonsensical as someone who criticizes a government's policies being told he should leave the country. Don't waste your time, I won't fall for such gibberish.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quit putting the parental responsibilities on Jagex and put them where they belong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I only insist that Jagex actually follow through with the responsibilities that they themselves have said are theirs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Greedom1, I appreciated your post even if nobody else did. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

[Soulfire21]

but players also get a broad education in the negative aspects of online gaming, including cheating, scamming, lying, taunting, bullying, gambling and addiction.

While this may be true - what do you think exists out there in the real world? Granted, the younger players may not need to be exposed to the cheating, scamming, lying, etc. but it is the responsibility of the parent to educate themselves and the children about the game, and then assess whether or not the child is old/mature enough to play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, some of these activities happen to one extent or another in all online games. But RuneScape is child-oriented, with some players as young as five online. The reputation of the game is that it is safe for kids, but they are in fact exposed to all sorts of very negative influences without them, or their parents, realizing it. So what are our children learning on RuneScape? And what is Jagex doing - or not doing - about it?

Again I would like to reiterate that children as young as five playing are playing because their parents allow it - the responsibility falls on the parent. And, in my opinion, Jagex has been greatly increasing security measures - almost too much in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've seen first-hand the impact on children who have been betrayed, cheated, verbally abused or killed by another player - the negative consequences can have a lasting impact. Players and parents of players alike need to take these issues seriously.

Yeah, you get angry, but like I said earlier - these are things we'll be exposed to out "in the real world." And as for killed by another player, that's just part of the game - sorry about your luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In RuneScape, however, the phrase has taken on a life of its own as a generic insult - you can be called a "noob" for doing almost anything, which really annoys younger players.

Sorry, but I don't see how "noob" is psychologically damaging to younger players (that seems to be the aim of this article).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As they proceed through the game, they discover that insulting and degrading other players is very common. Not all players are rude and nasty but a large percentage is, especially in the free version of the game where most kids play. The incidence of abuse has risen so much that it is now hard to ignore, and new players are the most common targets. This ensures that they "learn" this behavior and pass it on to new players that come after them.

So some kids run into bad people - we must now say "a large percentage" are bad? I wonder where this person is coming up with their "facts." And as for kids learning it, I was only 11 when I played RuneScape... I've been scammed many a time, and I haven't learned that behavior.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is routine to hear kids calling each other "gaye" and making taunting sexual references to each others' mothers.

And that's different in any way to a normal day in school?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Female players in RuneScape are subjected to nearly continuous harassment by the testosterone-overloaded teenaged hornballs who comprise the bulk of the game's players. This includes lewd comments, and being constantly asked if they "want a boyfriend." Many girls resort to playing as male characters just to keep their sanity

More stupid generalizations... I think I'm going to be repeating myself here on, they've sort of beat the dog dead... their points are redundant and not solid, to say the least.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"lol nub i gawet scammed 5.4m but i aint cryin so stfu"

 

 

 

"ha you lost stuff!!! lmao noob in your face"

 

 

 

("Nub" is an alternate form of "noob"; "lmao" means "laugh my [wagon] off".)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Heart-warming, isn't it? Just what kids need to learn about how to deal with others.

 

 

 

*scratches head* so this makes it a bad environment?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, I can't read anymore. I had planned on writing a critical analysis of every objectionable (by my standards) piece within this article, but this person is continually making the same points over and over again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So here it is folks, the bottom line:

 

 

 

You as the player are responsible to educate yourself about the game, and make a decision on whether you are mature or old enough to play it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you are not able to make that decision, then it is your parents' responsibility.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you can't handle it, don't play... It's as simple as that.

[Sly_Wizard]

Well, Qeltar, you've officially provoked me to respond (Albeit not on the RSOF, as the forum Nazis would undoubtedly ban me).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyone who read your article would be led to believe that Runescape is a Hellhole filled with delinquent, amoral, psychotic, sociopaths. I know that other people have pointed this out to you, but I'd just like to reiterate the fact that you're stating the actions of a small minority of Runescape to be the actions of the majority. If you truly, truly believe that the majority of Runescape are scammers and the like, then there's no use in even attempting to debate with you because you're already delusional

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anywho, I feel as if I must ask you what happened to your parental responsibilities? If you don't feel as if Runescape is suitable for your child, then don't let him/her play or let them play while you keep a watchful eye over their shoulder. It ain't that hard. Even though I'm not a parent per se, my girlfriend is. The only time she allows her son (8) to play Runescape is when she can supervise him. The aforementioned seems to be common sense (Though, common sense doesn't seem to be all that common anymore). Contrary to what some people believe, Jagex doesn't owe you anything aside from access to member features (Assuming you pay). It's not their job to baby their customers; Rather, it's the players responsibility to protect themselves (Or if the player is too young, then it's the parent's responsibility to protect his/her child).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To take a quote out of your book, Qeltar, if you don't like the Runescape community then go find another game to play. Or, better yet, why don't you create your own game?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As a side note, I have to say that I find your attitude on PVP to be laughable, at best. At least you're given a choice of whether or not to participate in PVP on Runescape. Most popular MMORPG's don't give you such a choice and as soon as you leave town or enter enemy territory, then you are free to be attacked by whomever.

[King_Peter18]

I've been looking over the tomshardware forums and I found this post..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Ok, for sake of argument. JaGeX is listed in the copyright list. Ok? No need to continue that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. JaGeX advertises to kids? I'm sorry, but we cannot ever have complete confirmation that JaGeX asked the author of that book to publish it with Scholastic inc. She wrote it, with or without their help, and had full permission to write it. We cannot know with full confirmation they even asked her to publish is with Scholastic. I cannot understand how everyone here is operating on that assumption. About the site "miniclip". Just because JaGeX has a link to their game on a website doesn't mean they are neccissarily advertising to children. Anyone can go anywhere on the Internet and say they are advertising to children. Everyone has accsess to every single web page there is. Don't go operating on that assumption either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2.Kids under the age of 13 that lie about their age to play, are not entitled to the rights and protections that Runescape' T&C have to provide. End of story. Fact is, if they sign up without parental consent, they aren't entitled to anything and are in void of the T&C.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3.JaGeX does state that some content is not suitable to children under the age of 13. Yet parents still sign their kids up knowing about that. It is stated in the T&C and they accept that. Everyone here that has a paying Runescape account has accepted that. JaGeX has it clearly stated in their T&C.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. The articles on Scamming on Charles site are amazing, I commend him for that. But some of the things on that site contradict what MMORPGS are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope this post has been a productive one"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This guy obviously knows what he is talking about. I agree with him, all the way.

[qeltar]

I had planned on writing a critical analysis of every objectionable (by my standards) piece within this article, but this person is continually making the same points over and over again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Funny that you say that... because as I was reading your reply, I was thinking that you were making the same comments others had made and I had already responded to a week ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The thread has stagnated since it was placed in this low-traffic area. I see no purpose in repeating what I've already said several times, so unless some new material is raised, I'm done here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, the question of why Jagex is marketing its game directly to pre-teens remains, but I will pursue that in more productive environments.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

[Sly_Wizard]

The thread has stagnated since it was placed in this low-traffic area. I see no purpose in repeating what I've already said several times, so unless some new material is raised, I'm done here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I took the liberty of translating this into English: "You all raise very valid points which I can't refute, therefore I'll simply ignore them all together."

[ekim]

Some of the replies seem like you're debating your egos instead of points :)

 

 

 

So, punks, why won't you just accept the fact that everyone is entitled to his opinion? Why do you deem it so important to prove that your opinion is the magna charta, the only right one? Especially when you have not a single piece of any evidence, any actual proof to back up your claims?

 

 

 

What did I do to Larry and Sergey that they popped up this page on me - again? Well, since I'm here, I might shortly add a few comments, eh?

 

 

 

but players also get a broad education in the negative aspects of online gaming, including cheating, scamming, lying, taunting, bullying, gambling and addiction.

While this may be true - what do you think exists out there in the real world?

 

 

 

Laws and guaranteed punishment if you break them. Unlike in RS with its laughable rule enforcing efforts.

 

 

 

Sure, some of these activities happen to one extent or another in all online games. But RuneScape is child-oriented, with some players as young as five online. The reputation of the game is that it is safe for kids, but they are in fact exposed to all sorts of very negative influences without them, or their parents, realizing it. So what are our children learning on RuneScape? And what is Jagex doing - or not doing - about it?

Again I would like to reiterate that children as young as five playing are playing because their parents allow it - the responsibility falls on the parent. And, in my opinion, Jagex has been greatly increasing security measures - almost too much in my opinion.

 

 

 

Jagex increasing measures - wouldn't it be understandable since their main target future gamers audience will be nine to twelve years olds? They need to work hard on their parent's guide still - at least, thanks to Charles, they included the 13+ part now.

 

 

 

I've seen first-hand the impact on children who have been betrayed, cheated, verbally abused or killed by another player - the negative consequences can have a lasting impact. Players and parents of players alike need to take these issues seriously.

Yeah, you get angry, but like I said earlier - these are things we'll be exposed to out "in the real world." And as for killed by another player, that's just part of the game - sorry about your luck.

 

 

 

So, tell me, have you been raped in real life? Tell me, is it the few-seconds physical hurt or the aftermath mental issues that haunt you for years that make such an experience so painful? It's the feelings of being helpless, abused victim that greatly surpass any physical pain, pal. Same applies to any such experience, and as you confessed yourself, it doesn't matter if it is ingame or real life.

 

 

 

To a young kid's psyche, being betrayed, cheated or abused verbally or in any other way, especially in a suposefully safe enviroment of a preteen-targeted game might prove disastrous.

 

 

 

...

 

Lovely to see so many tipit kids being Jagex's Yesmen, lol. There's really no point to reply, worse try to reason against kids with such attitude :) After all, even the owners of this web seemed to s**t themselves seeing a thread debating negative points of the Runescape game, backed up by credible evidence presented by adults.

 

...

 

 

 

Female players in RuneScape are subjected to nearly continuous harassment by the testosterone-overloaded teenaged hornballs who comprise the bulk of the game's players. This includes lewd comments, and being constantly asked if they "want a boyfriend." Many girls resort to playing as male characters just to keep their sanity

More stupid generalizations... I think I'm going to be repeating myself here on, they've sort of beat the dog dead... their points are redundant and not solid, to say the least.

 

 

 

So, will you gain a few levels on a tipit community ladder every time your post count rises, even though you have absolutely nothing to say, no points made, s**t, not having even basic understanding of the subject debated? As I previously stated, on a ego infested kiddy boards? Oh yes you will :\

 

 

 

The female-targeted abuse, even in members worlds, are way beyond extreme. Every single female player on my friends list who quit did so because of the unbearable community issues. It's not only the idiotic remarks, gf-issues, people following you for, well, for as long until you log out or teleport , and way more unethical abuses. Just how many times had I have to witness some idiot purposefully standing in front of a female player cooking on a fire. (I hope I don't need to be more specific)

 

 

 

The other day I got a PM from another female player saying that she finally managed to grow up her first cat. I congratulated her, saying that "it is some achievement". Instead of expected "ty", however, I've been flooded by several lines of text explaining that it took her a great deal of care and that she does not need to take such an abuse from me... She's got so much abuse that she automatically assumed that even my "it is some achievement" was just another agressive, in my case ironical comment pushed on her...

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you are not able to make that decision, then it is your parents' responsibility.

 

 

 

So, what would you do as a parent? You see the scholastic leaflet, the book that says the game is OK for even 9 year olds, if you care to read the Parent's guide PR... As Paulyts50 mentioned earlier, everything in Lumbridge, even the home teleport, free-stuff tutors, the game manual - all's been done specifically to decieve the parents of minors, to lure them into the belief that the game is as safe as Volvo and to let them ride on.

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

Oh and, even if the company had no backup files, not even in text forms; even if the game file was one big, already compiled file no-one could find a bug in - which really touched my lungs, kudos to whoever made up that funny comment - there's nothing to stop the game developer to change the few lines of text in manual (changing safe to unsafe) and find -just- one employee who knows how to write in full sentences to post the warnings about the bug on the forums :)

 

 

 

In closing, once again, thank you Charles, you are one of the very few who chose deeds over words, which I applaud to and always will.

[qeltar]

Thanks ekim, I very much appreciate your post.

 

 

 

For those who are at all interested, I have cleaned up and formally launched my RuneScape-related site, which is linked in my signature. Even if you disagree with my views you will likely find a lot of useful information on avoiding item scams, account hacking and lures, which I don't believe has been gathered into one place before.

 

 

 

~q

[King_Peter18]

Don't you or Sly bring that argument over here.

[trunksrs]

The thread has stagnated since it was placed in this low-traffic area. I see no purpose in repeating what I've already said several times, so unless some new material is raised, I'm done here.

 

 

 

I took the liberty of translating this into English: "You all raise very valid points which I can't refute, therefore I'll simply ignore them all together."

 

 

 

No, I don't think that's what he's saying. It's the same reason I stopped posting, both sides where bringing the same thing up over and over, and the argument wasn't going anywhere. Well, that and I got Sims Pets, and RuneScape fell out of my radar.

 

 

 

I was writing one last post, arguing a couple last points, and saying qeltar made some very good points, but I still believed it was parents not doing their jobs. I was almost done and accidentally closed the wrong tab, so I said screw it.