Wrong? That wasn't up for debate...It's a fact? lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or are you saying Christian's who want religion taught in school are NOT nut-jobs, but you omitted Muslims' from my statement because you agree that they are, infact, nut-jobs?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, it's just that you worded it as if all Christians are nut jobs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Extremists seem like your average Muslim nowadays, so I don't even want to comment on it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No...I said ones who want the Bible taught as science and stuff.

 

I wonder if they realise you can't just stop being gay..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually all it takes is one homosexual to stop being gay to disprove that statement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The subject of changing sexual orientation is an issue Throckmorton emphasizes in his counseling and teaching. "I've seen people change, people I've interviewed and even my own clients," Throckmorton told AFA Journal. "I remember one of my clients, who is no longer gay, said to me, 'Tell them that I exist.'"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And that's exactly what Throckmorton has been doing. He recently released a new video, I Do Exist!, which tells the stories of five ex-homosexuals who now boldly proclaim that people can change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I Do Exist! opens with "man-on-the-street" interviews, as average Americans answer the question, "Can homosexuals change?" Former "gay" man Noe Gutierrez, Jr., then begins explaining how he began the process of change. Gutierrez is so sincere and transparent that he draws the viewer into his story.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In 1973, Spitzer was one of the men who was instrumental in getting the American Psychiatric Association to officially remove homosexuality from its catalog of mental illnesses. He has since come to the conclusion that some homosexuals can change their sexual orientation, and last year released the results of a study to that effect.

 

 

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1207729/posts

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not to say this study isn't perfectly legitimate, but have they ever gone back and examined the people that they "cured" of their homosexuality maybe 15 or 20 years after. To my understanding, even if it isn't biological and it is rooted in childhood trauma (which is a theory I reject myself seeing as I was never sexually abused/molested) why try to change something that is so deeply a part of one's identity as sexual orientation. My best guess is that the best they can do is repress those desires, not change them, and ultimately repressed feelings/desires will come out one way or another. For all we know this "treatment" will turn all of its success stories into serial rapists 15-20 years down the line. Furthermore, for ever success they have, there are probably at least 10-20 failures. How are those men and women supposed to feel. What if someone truly does think that God hates them, and when they cannot change they end up committing suicide? Their death is on the hands of those who tried to change them...I bet the family could even ein a wrongful death lawsuit against the people who made them hate what they are. All I am saying is that even if they can change some of us to make us heterosexual, the risks to the others are too great. And who says all gays want to become straight? I would like to have a "normal" relationship, but if I have to go through years of psychotherapy, then I'd just as soon stay the way God made me.

Hell, with enough work you could turn a black man white, you can turn a guy into girl, you can give a kidney to someone who needs it.

 

 

 

This statement has nothing to do with the discussion. You cannot turn a black man white, you cannot turn a guy into a girl. What you can do is disguise them as such but genetically they are still a black man and a guy. I also fail to see the relevance a kidney transplant has on the topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With enough psychology someone can stop having a mental disorder, but then scientists have still proven it to be an uncontrollable fact that mental illness is something you have no choice over getting or not.

 

 

 

So what exactly is your point? I was saying there were homosexuals that had stopped being homosexual and you responded with this. Does this mean you think homosexuality is a mental disorder(since it can be changed) because you then go on to say we should praise it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Saying a person should be praised for something you say they have no control over is a funny thing to me. I always thought praise should be reserved for something that at least took a LITTLE effort... :P

To my understanding, even if it isn't biological and it is rooted in childhood trauma (which is a theory I reject myself seeing as I was never sexually abused/molested) why try to change something that is so deeply a part of one's identity as sexual orientation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To get an answer to this you would have to ask one of those people that isn't homosexual anymore and ask them if they are happy about it or if it causes them pain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think saying they *might* become rapists while having no facts to prove such is kind of using scare tactics to further your side. You gave a mature and respectful response otherwise so you probably didn't realize what you were conveying with that comment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess what I would say in response to your post would be to find some hard data to support your position instead of just throwing out a lot of "what if's".

 

Hell, with enough work you could turn a black man white, you can turn a guy into girl, you can give a kidney to someone who needs it.

 

 

 

This statement has nothing to do with the discussion. You cannot turn a black man white, you cannot turn a guy into a girl. What you can do is disguise them as such but genetically they are still a black man and a guy. I also fail to see the relevance a kidney transplant has on the topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Saying a person should be praised for something you say they have no control over is a funny thing to me. I always thought praise should be reserved for something that at least took a LITTLE effort... :P

 

 

 

Oddly enough, most studies suggest that homosexual tendencies are mostly biological.

 

 

 

And on the praise thing, I think when people say that homosexuals should be praised, they don't mean just for being gay, but for being able to face all the negative light on homosexuality from fundamentalist Christians and the far right (odd for a conservative to say this). I personally don't want any praise just because I have the courage to openly say that I'm gay. (Gifts and donations will suffice in place of praise. :D )

I will reply with what Nitramosma said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was implying that you can change anything with a little work, homosexuality is no different, you can make a straight person gay if you want. But why do we need more straight couples? They make up far more than 98% of the world if not more, and this is causing our resources to die down due to overpopulation. Not to say having kids is bad, as it is vital to our survival, but I see no reason to turn gay people straight. Let them live their life, we don't need anymore straight people as it is already, we could actually do with more gays to be honest.

I will reply with what Nitramosma said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was implying that you can change anything with a little work, homosexuality is no different, you can make a straight person gay if you want. But why do we need more straight couples? They make up far more than 98% of the world if not more, and this is causing our resources to die down due to overpopulation. Not to say having kids is bad, as it is vital to our survival, but I see no reason to turn gay people straight. Let them live their life, we don't need anymore straight people as it is already, we could actually do with more gays to be honest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thomas Maltus would be proud if he were here today. :XD:

 

To my understanding, even if it isn't biological and it is rooted in childhood trauma (which is a theory I reject myself seeing as I was never sexually abused/molested) why try to change something that is so deeply a part of one's identity as sexual orientation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To get an answer to this you would have to ask one of those people that isn't homosexual anymore and ask them if they are happy about it or if it causes them pain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think saying they *might* become rapists while having no facts to prove such is kind of using scare tactics to further your side. You gave a mature and respectful response otherwise so you probably didn't realize what you were conveying with that comment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess what I would say in response to your post would be to find some hard data to support your position instead of just throwing out a lot of "what if's".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the studies just haven't been done to support my position. It's very possible, that every ex-gay goes on to become a wonderful contribution to the community, but I don't believe its true mainly because in the cases in which it is genetic (there is very strong evidence in favor of this, so I'll assume just for this situation that its true) and someone is changed that would be the equivalent of a heterosexual person living life as a homosexual. They will not be happy and they will not lead a fulfilling life. True they may not become rapists or they may not even have any problems whatsoever, but to me it seems like unless the person is genuinely unhappy with their current lifestyle and they are not harming anyone, then there is no immediate need for change so why risk the possibility that it could cause long-term psyoilogical damage? I think that if it is a voluntary program, then people may do as they please. The main ones I have problems with is the camps that parents of gay children are strongly encouraged to send their kids to. Forcing a sexual identity on someone is the same as any other kind of abuse to a person's mind, only this time it can be "justified" by the owners of these camps because it is a religious practice.

I will reply with what Nitramosma said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was implying that you can change anything with a little work, homosexuality is no different, you can make a straight person gay if you want. But why do we need more straight couples? They make up far more than 98% of the world if not more, and this is causing our resources to die down due to overpopulation. Not to say having kids is bad, as it is vital to our survival, but I see no reason to turn gay people straight. Let them live their life, we don't need anymore straight people as it is already, we could actually do with more gays to be honest.

 

 

 

One poll I read (can't remember where) claimed that 1.8% of men claim to be completely homosexual (not bisexual) and 2.6% of women. I didn't really have a response to your comment, I just wanted to get those numbers out there.

 

Didn't you know. God loves homosexuals. And if you didn't know, I'll inform you, this might be a shocker: God is homosexual himself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats pretty tight..saying that it could be true

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Im not homophobic...I like homosexuals..I love homosexuals....and do you know why

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

More girls for me \

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then they go to a gay camp and commit suicide because they couldn't "pray the gay away." (Southpark)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If that's true, more die and more straight men respawn and then the chicks get taken up. Or they become lesbos and then they hate guys and try to set up traps in the Amazon and kill men with spears.

I will reply with what Nitramosma said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was implying that you can change anything with a little work, homosexuality is no different, you can make a straight person gay if you want. But why do we need more straight couples? They make up far more than 98% of the world if not more, and this is causing our resources to die down due to overpopulation. Not to say having kids is bad, as it is vital to our survival, but I see no reason to turn gay people straight. Let them live their life, we don't need anymore straight people as it is already, we could actually do with more gays to be honest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ever heard of condoms and birth control?

God loves homosexuals. He finds it cute when they call shampoo a "product".

And God said, "Be fruitful and multiply."

 

 

 

And the Church said, "Holy crap, God must hate homosexuals!"

 

 

 

And everyone else said [to the Church leaders], "Holy crap, you're all morons!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thus it is written.

And God said, "Be fruitful and multiply."

 

 

 

And the Church said, "Holy crap, God must hate homosexuals!"

 

 

 

And everyone else said [to the Church leaders], "Holy crap, you're all morons!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thus it is written.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*cricket chirping*

 

And God said, "Be fruitful and multiply."

 

 

 

And the Church said, "Holy crap, God must hate homosexuals!"

 

 

 

And everyone else said [to the Church leaders], "Holy crap, you're all morons!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thus it is written.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*cricket chirping*

 

 

 

1:30AM, not surprising.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's basically how the Church goes through the thought process though. They read something in the Bible, pull some crazy non sequitur out of it, and thus gain the belief that God hates homosexuals. It's a good thing pretty much no churches or pastors that I know of actually agree with that opinion of the Catholic Church...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the other hand, it's kind of a safety procedure for the Church. Thay can say God hates homosexuals, and then later decide that God doesn't- everyone would definitely be fine with that. But if they started out by saying that God loves homosexuals, and then switch over to God hating them, well, that's not going to go over well for church attendance...

Actually I believe it is taught in the Bible that God loves them, but not their sin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways 'night.

And God said, "Be fruitful and multiply."

 

 

 

And the Church said, "Holy crap, God must hate homosexuals!"

 

 

 

And everyone else said [to the Church leaders], "Holy crap, you're all morons!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thus it is written.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

100% correct. No joke. Most of those verses do not directly say that God hates homosexuals. And that same phrase "God hates homosexuals" goes against alot of Christian doctrine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Knives gets 2 cookies for this post:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

God loves homosexuals. He finds it cute when they call shampoo a "product".

I guess I am the first Christian to post on this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, you weren't. I was.

On the other hand, it's kind of a safety procedure for the Church. Thay can say God hates homosexuals,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And someone hasn't read the thread...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(note the part concerning who these people saying this statement and how their "Church" which is just their family was kicked booted by the Baptists) Pretty much every person claiming to be a Christian has all agreed that God loves homosexuals but hates the sin. Don't be throwing big blanket statement around like most Christians believe the garbage these people are spewing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, you weren't. I was.

 

 

 

My bad

Ever heard of condoms and birth control?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah because they'll really have access to that in rural Africa. (Incidentally, part of the reason AIDS is so rife in Africa is because the Catholic missions refused to spread birth control, but whatever.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In response to that report Ambassadar brought up, regardless of the results, why were people trying to suppress them anyway? Who on Earth has the right to try and change who they are?

 

Ever heard of condoms and birth control?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah because they'll really have access to that in rural Africa. (Incidentally, part of the reason AIDS is so rife in Africa is because the Catholic missions refused to spread birth control, but whatever.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In response to that report Ambassadar brought up, regardless of the results, why were people trying to suppress them anyway? Who on Earth has the right to try and change who they are?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Forgive me if that was a rethorical question, but how about their parents?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, parents have been teaching alot of things to their children even before the bible, or written history for that matter. :-k

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Well its 3 AM and I didnt fully read ambassador's post... (Meaning im too sleepy to understand...)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So please disregard this reply. ^^;

 

 

Ever heard of condoms and birth control?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah because they'll really have access to that in rural Africa. (Incidentally, part of the reason AIDS is so rife in Africa is because the Catholic missions refused to spread birth control, but whatever.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In response to that report Ambassadar brought up, regardless of the results, why were people trying to suppress them anyway? Who on Earth has the right to try and change who they are?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Forgive me if that was a rethorical question, but how about their parents?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, parents have been teaching alot of things to their children even before the bible, or written history for that matter. :-k

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Any parent worth their salt would be proud of and encourage their child's sexuality, whatever it was. It's parents who were ashamed of their children being homosexuals that are resposible for a lot of problems associated with it.

For the record, 5% of people are openly gay. the actual figure is probably sloightly higher. Claims that 98%+ of people are straight are false.

Ok this is just all pathetic. God doesn't hate homosexuals (he loves everyone and died on the cross for everyones sins so that we may be forgiven -- well thats what the Christian faith is about [everyone has their own personal views and beliefs]). He hates what they do and thats what its written in the bible. Thus thats how it should be perceived - not that he hates the actual people but the act.

Taken from s.com]http://www.godhates[bleep]s.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SODOMY IS AN ABOMINABLE SIN, WORTHY OF DEATH.

 

 

 

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13. "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Romans 1:32.

 

 

 

See also Leviticus 18:22, Genesis 19, Romans 1:18-32, I Corinthians 6:9-11, I Timothy 1:10, and Jude 7.

 

 

 

GOD HATES ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY.

 

 

 

"The foolish shall not stand in thy sight, thou hatest all workers of iniquity." Psalm 5:5.

 

 

 

See also Leviticus 20:23, Leviticus 26:30, Deuteronomy 32:19, Psalm 5:6, Psalm 11:5, Malachi 1:3, Matthew 7:23, and Romans 9:13.

 

 

 

JESUS CHRIST DIED ONLY FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE.

 

 

 

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.

 

 

 

See also John 13:1, John 17:9, Ephesians 5:25, etc.

 

 

 

ONLY GOD'S ELECT HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO BELIEVE.

 

 

 

"Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." John 12:39,40.

 

 

 

See also John 10:11,26, Matthew 11:25,26, Acts 13:48, Romans 9:19-24, etc.

 

 

 

SODOMITES ARE PROUD OF THEIR SIN ("GAY PRIDE"), AND IN THAT PRIDEFUL STATE THEY CANNOT REPENT - YOU CANNOT REPENT OF SOMETHING YOU'RE PROUD OF.

 

 

 

"Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD." Jeremiah 6:15.

 

 

 

See also Jeremiah 13:23, Romans 1:24-32, Ezekiel 16:49-50, etc.

 

 

 

THE SODOMITES' ONLY HOPE IS TO HAVE THE UNAMBIGUOUS TRUTH PREACHED TO THEM, AND PERHAPS GOD WILL SOFTEN THEIR HEARTS AND GRANT THEM REPENTANCE TO DEPART FROM THEIR SIN AND NAME THE NAME OF CHRIST. NOT VERY LIKELY, THOUGH, SINCE GOD HAS GIVEN THEM UP.

 

 

 

"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." II Timothy 2:19. "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness...unto vile affections...to a reprobate mind." Romans 1:24-28.

 

 

 

See also II Timothy 2:24-26, Psalm 5:5, I Corinthians 6:9-11, Acts 17:30, Jude 22,23, etc.

 

 

 

THERE IS A HELL WHERE ALL IMPENITENT SINNERS WILL RESIDE FOR ALL ETERNITY. THAT INCLUDES SODOMITES (CALLED "DOGS").

 

 

 

"And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh." Isaiah 66:24. "For without are dogs..." Revelation 22:15.

 

 

 

See also Mark 9:44, Luke 16:23, Revelation 20:15.