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Pre-marital sex--


Kashi

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That's quite amusing Tigra, you're sat there preaching to me that I'm a sexist zealot and there you are saying that I'm an "oppressive" Muslim. Which is worse, racism or sexism? Well I know what has killed more in the history of the world. But you're easily to ignorant to contemplate what you're saying.

 

 

 

I thought Muslims were part of a religion, not a race.

 

 

 

So instead of being racist he was being religionist? Now I'm confused! :P

 

 

 

The point is that I couldn't see where Tigra was racist. It's a strong accusation so you'd like to think he'd get it right.

 

 

 

Haha Yeah I knew what you were on about. :wink:

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That's quite amusing Tigra, you're sat there preaching to me that I'm a sexist zealot and there you are saying that I'm an "oppressive" Muslim. Which is worse, racism or sexism? Well I know what has killed more in the history of the world. But you're easily to ignorant to contemplate what you're saying.

 

 

 

I thought Muslims were part of a religion, not a race.

 

 

 

So instead of being racist he was being religionist? Now I'm confused! :P

 

 

 

The point is that I couldn't see where Tigra was racist. It's a strong accusation so you'd like to think he'd get it right.

 

 

 

Haha Yeah I knew what you were on about. :wink:

 

 

 

Bah, sorry, I'm in a overly serious mood. I totally by-passed the smily. :lol: :wall: :P

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Haha Yeah I knew what you were on about. :wink:

 

 

 

Bah, sorry, I'm in a overly serious mood. I totally by-passed the smily. :lol: :wall: :P

 

 

 

 

 

Haha I can understand, there's some very good flame wars going on in some serious topics on OT. Its actually quite entertaining to be apart of! :P

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[hide]

This thread has copious amounts of win.

 

 

 

Anyway some things which may be of some food for thought for Korskin in particular.

 

 

 

Bible Belt leads U.S. In divorce rate.

 

 

 

The Christian South leads U.S. In aids rates by region.

 

 

 

Gonorrhea, Syphilis and Chlamydia at high rates in the Christian South.

 

 

 

Abortion rate lower among bible belt states (a little math needed).

 

 

 

Abortion rate lower among bible belt states (a little math needed).

 

 

 

Rape rates in bible belt slightly higher than national average (a little math needed).

 

 

 

This comparison is to show you that in the more Christian portion of the U.S., where the values of abstinence until marriage are prevalant, there still seem to be notable rates of STDs, rape and divorce. To be fair, it seems you were right about abortion rates. I'll have a dig around for prostitution stats later.

 

 

 

The point I'm making is that you shouldn't make assumptions based off of what you believe. You could be proven wrong.

 

I'm not sure if statistics can convince me that my opinions and moral values are wrong. With my statements come a lot of assumptions as you and others pointed out. If people waited with sex until marriage and took their wedding vows seriously, I don't think we would see much STD's, rapes, abortions, prostitution etc. However, I'm aware that it's not always the case.

 

 

 

The high divorce rates might be because of people marrying to soon and perhaps for the wrong reasons. I don't think people (who's against premarital sex) marry primarily in order to have sex, but it could be a factor leading towards a premature marriage. Other than that I don't have much to say really, I suppose I could find statistics favoring the bible belt but I don't see the point.

 

 

 

Maybe I'm being too hypothetical and perhaps not realistic but I believe that the Bible's stand on sexuality is the right one.

 

 

 

If I can't use stats to sway your opinion then there's no point really. I value that you see the bible as the way to live your life and values on marriage, but we need to be realistic about this. It's not a bandaid that heals all wounds. It works for some but for others not so much. If you can use the bible's morals and get no STDs, have a loving and healthy marriage, then all the power in the world to you. I just wanted to point out to you that people following the bible for a moral life isn't as foolproof as it's cracked up to be and that one can avoid all those nasties while not following the ethics as dictated by the bible.

[/hide]

 

 

 

However, I doubt that such polls take into account how consistently people follow their beliefs. In my experience, most people in the West have forgotten how to carry their beliefs to their logical conclusions, whatever those beliefs may be. We tend to have large discrepencies between our beliefs, thoughts, and actions.

 

 

 

If that is the case, then it does not damage Korskin's point at all, since his hypothesis would say that those people's sexual practices were not consistent with Biblical views of sexuality.

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"In so far as I am Man I am the chief of creatures. In so far as I am a man I am the chief of sinners." - G.K. Chesterton

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z0mg guyz th3 B!bl3 !5 b4d!!1! it m4k35 b4d th1n65 h4pp3n!!! 1t m4k35 p30pl3 r4p3 4nd d1v0rc3!!!11!

 

 

 

It seems to me thats what I see alot, but if people actually opened the book a crack instead of cursing it without even knowing anything other name then umm whats that guy... Je..Jesus!, the Bible speaks agaisnt raping people and divorce and all what not.

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Nobody said that the Bible promoted those things, although as far as I'm concerned, it does promote incest, retributive genocide and homophobia.

 

 

 

Of course, people may want to argue that the Old Testament isn't part of modern Christianity, but that's like saying Hirohito isn't a part of modern Japanese culture.

 

 

 

That's not the subject of the debate, however.

 

 

 

The problem with consistent faith that Astralinre points out is that if one were to draw up an opinion poll and restrict it to only people whose beliefs are strictly consistent with the Bible's is that it skews the data towards that demographic. By leaving it open, you get a broader sample of people from a region with identifiable norms, rather than surveying a tiny percentage of the population.

 

 

 

Even if you just surveyed Christians, you would still get a broad sample, as it is inevitable that people have differing interpretations of the Bible. However, the common factor with these people is that they do base at least part of their moral compass in scripture, and thus you can draw solid statistics. If you restrict even these to just people who are strictly orthodox, then you won't get many, if any, statistics that would suggest anyone is deviating.

 

 

 

This might all be a little confusing to some, but since I work in the market research industry - we do this sort of thing - it makes perfect sense to me.

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I just wanted to point out to you that people following the bible for a moral life isn't as foolproof as it's cracked up to be

 

 

 

What do you mean? You think rapists are following the Bible? I don't think so. All your study shows is that some people that say they follow the Bible actually don't.

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[hide]
This thread has copious amounts of win.

 

 

 

Anyway some things which may be of some food for thought for Korskin in particular.

 

 

 

Bible Belt leads U.S. In divorce rate.

 

 

 

The Christian South leads U.S. In aids rates by region.

 

 

 

Gonorrhea, Syphilis and Chlamydia at high rates in the Christian South.

 

 

 

Abortion rate lower among bible belt states (a little math needed).

 

 

 

Abortion rate lower among bible belt states (a little math needed).

 

 

 

Rape rates in bible belt slightly higher than national average (a little math needed).

 

 

 

This comparison is to show you that in the more Christian portion of the U.S., where the values of abstinence until marriage are prevalant, there still seem to be notable rates of STDs, rape and divorce. To be fair, it seems you were right about abortion rates. I'll have a dig around for prostitution stats later.

 

 

 

The point I'm making is that you shouldn't make assumptions based off of what you believe. You could be proven wrong.

 

I'm not sure if statistics can convince me that my opinions and moral values are wrong. With my statements come a lot of assumptions as you and others pointed out. If people waited with sex until marriage and took their wedding vows seriously, I don't think we would see much STD's, rapes, abortions, prostitution etc. However, I'm aware that it's not always the case.

 

 

 

The high divorce rates might be because of people marrying to soon and perhaps for the wrong reasons. I don't think people (who's against premarital sex) marry primarily in order to have sex, but it could be a factor leading towards a premature marriage. Other than that I don't have much to say really, I suppose I could find statistics favoring the bible belt but I don't see the point.

 

 

 

Maybe I'm being too hypothetical and perhaps not realistic but I believe that the Bible's stand on sexuality is the right one.

 

 

 

If I can't use stats to sway your opinion then there's no point really. I value that you see the bible as the way to live your life and values on marriage, but we need to be realistic about this. It's not a bandaid that heals all wounds. It works for some but for others not so much. If you can use the bible's morals and get no STDs, have a loving and healthy marriage, then all the power in the world to you. I just wanted to point out to you that people following the bible for a moral life isn't as foolproof as it's cracked up to be and that one can avoid all those nasties while not following the ethics as dictated by the bible.

[/hide]

 

 

 

However, I doubt that such polls take into account how consistently people follow their beliefs. In my experience, most people in the West have forgotten how to carry their beliefs to their logical conclusions, whatever those beliefs may be. We tend to have large discrepencies between our beliefs, thoughts, and actions.

 

 

 

If that is the case, then it does not damage Korskin's point at all, since his hypothesis would say that those people's sexual practices were not consistent with Biblical views of sexuality.

 

 

 

Point conceded. The point I was making is that following the bible does not automatically mean you'll end up avoiding all the nasties. It's not a balck and white issue (as Korskins pre-marital = STDs, rape, prostitution, abortion comment suggested) yet a very grey one as is the case with following any other system of morals to achieve a goal. Humans don't often follow a system of morals how they were intended to be followed and nor would you expect them to when they are imperfect. Irrespective of them being followed correctly or not, those populations who follow christian morals rarely have a better report card when it comes to STDs, rape, divorce and some others, it seems. Of course, I'd need to do more thorough study to come to a more definative conclusion but from what I originally posted, I'm sure you'll see where I'm coming from.

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I just wanted to point out to you that people following the bible for a moral life isn't as foolproof as it's cracked up to be

 

 

 

What do you mean? You think rapists are following the Bible? I don't think so. All your study shows is that some people that say they follow the Bible actually don't.

 

 

 

:| ... I don't think so either (well, some probably do, I suppose but... that's not what I was getting at).

 

 

 

As for them not following the bible correctly, I'd concede that. See above.

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live your life like a free bird. I pity you.

 

 

 

You pity a life that is happy every day and positive? Well that explains why you're so morbid. I would have to say that I don't pity you and neither would anyone else :D in fact, I counsel people like you, ironic much?

 

 

 

Goddess I hope you realise people are lining up on my side of the argument over you, I recieved this pm just this morning:

 

 

 

Quote her and ask "Are you afraid of needles because you're afraid to deflate your humongous ego?"

 

 

 

I remember seeing her post on the Phobias thread, so she is actually afraid of needles. Haha.

 

 

 

People even want to insult you THROUGH me, that's hilarious don't you think?

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Quite possible because they're too chicken [cabbage] to do it themself - and since you have nothing left to loose, fighting for someone else seems right up your alley.

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I can't see a problem with having sex before marriage at all. Actually, I think it's lame to wait that long. Sex is a fantastic thing between two people (mostly) and I feel sorry for those who doesn't have sex before there are late in their 20's and married (normal age to get married :? )

 

 

 

I might offend someone with this but I think that it's totally insane with those Christian societies that literally brainwashes the youngsters and make them wear a ring and tells them that protection is against God's will. Seriously wtf. (I got nothing against religious people in general - not at all, I just think that this case is insane)

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I just wanted to point out to you that people following the bible for a moral life isn't as foolproof as it's cracked up to be

 

 

 

What do you mean? You think rapists are following the Bible? I don't think so. All your study shows is that some people that say they follow the Bible actually don't.

 

 

 

No one follows the Bible 100%...To say you do is to say you're without sin, which is blasphemy. :P

The popularity of any given religion today depends on the victories of the wars they fought in the past.

- Me!

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live your life like a free bird. I pity you.

 

 

 

You pity a life that is happy every day and positive? Well that explains why you're so morbid. I would have to say that I don't pity you and neither would anyone else :D in fact, I counsel people like you, ironic much?

 

 

 

Goddess I hope you realise people are lining up on my side of the argument over you, I recieved this pm just this morning:

 

 

 

Quote her and ask "Are you afraid of needles because you're afraid to deflate your humongous ego?"

 

 

 

I remember seeing her post on the Phobias thread, so she is actually afraid of needles. Haha.

 

 

 

People even want to insult you THROUGH me, that's hilarious don't you think?

 

 

 

Hilariously pathetic.

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I might offend someone with this but I think that it's totally insane with those Christian societies that literally brainwashes the youngsters and make them wear a ring and tells them that protection is against God's will. Seriously wtf. (I got nothing against religious people in general - not at all, I just think that this case is insane)

 

 

 

For the sake of all Christians out there! Can people stop quoting CATHOLIC DOCTRINE as the way in which a Christian lives his or her life! The catholic doctrine is created by man and has nothing to do with the Bible. Protestant Christians do not follow the Catholic Doctrine but believe it or not the Bible! I for one couldn't care less what some old man tells me what is write and what is wrong and what we should do and what we shouldn't. We follow what was written down for us in the Bible, not laws or a doctrine created by man.

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Goddess I hope you realise people are lining up on my side of the argument over you, I recieved this pm just this morning:

 

 

 

Quote her and ask "Are you afraid of needles because you're afraid to deflate your humongous ego?"

 

 

 

I remember seeing her post on the Phobias thread, so she is actually afraid of needles. Haha.

 

 

 

People even want to insult you THROUGH me, that's hilarious don't you think?

 

 

 

So, because you can't actually maintain a position in an intelligent debate, you fall back to the good old ad hominem attacks?

 

 

 

Hilarious.

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Goddess I hope you realise people are lining up on my side of the argument over you, I recieved this pm just this morning:

 

 

 

Quote her and ask "Are you afraid of needles because you're afraid to deflate your humongous ego?"

 

 

 

I remember seeing her post on the Phobias thread, so she is actually afraid of needles. Haha.

 

 

 

People even want to insult you THROUGH me, that's hilarious don't you think?

 

 

 

Argument? The attacking seems to be coming from one side only - that's not an argument in my eyes. You tried to goad me into one and failed, so now you're trying it with Mel. The fact that you have to resort to insults says a lot about you, and none of it's good. You have a lot to learn about women if you're ever planning on there being a Mrs Striker.

 

 

 

Why are you getting so wound up about the fact that Mel and I have had sex anyway? What effect does it have on you? We've both stated in a round-about way that while we have chosen to have sex out of wedlock, we respect those who make the decision to wait until marriage. I don't see what the problem is.

 

 

 

Now, please stop your silliness before I keel over from laughing at you.

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The attacking seems to be coming from one side only

 

 

 

Guessing you didn't Goddess' post towards me, heh it was worse than being called a "[bleep]", trust me it was very hate filled. Nice, you're going to "laugh" at me, is that supposed to make me feel insecure or something? It's obvious this has progressed from the debate as people are getting personal.

 

 

 

So, because you can't actually maintain a position in an intelligent debate, you fall back to the good old ad hominem attacks?

 

 

 

Hilarious.

 

 

 

Says the guy who takes one line of text out of context in several paragraphs of writing. I'm not talking about this thread though.

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So, because you can't actually maintain a position in an intelligent debate, you fall back to the good old ad hominem attacks?

 

 

 

Hilarious.

 

Says the guy who takes one line of text out of context in several paragraphs of writing. I'm not talking about this thread though.

 

Then don't bring that up in this one? Stay on topic maybe?

 

 

 

Goddess I hope you realise people are lining up on my side of the argument over you, I recieved this pm just this morning:

 

Lining up eh? That looks like one person. I don't exactly call that lining up; whereas your opposition contains several people, such as Zonorhc, Suzi, and Goddess, all of whom are quite respected members of this forum. You're not. Also, Serephus looks like he was more making a joke than actually trying to insult someone. Also you spelled "received" wrong.

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Point conceded. The point I was making is that following the bible does not automatically mean you'll end up avoiding all the nasties. It's not a balck and white issue (as Korskins pre-marital = STDs, rape, prostitution, abortion comment suggested) yet a very grey one as is the case with following any other system of morals to achieve a goal. Humans don't often follow a system of morals how they were intended to be followed and nor would you expect them to when they are imperfect. Irrespective of them being followed correctly or not, those populations who follow christian morals rarely have a better report card when it comes to STDs, rape, divorce and some others, it seems. Of course, I'd need to do more thorough study to come to a more definative conclusion but from what I originally posted, I'm sure you'll see where I'm coming from.

 

Just because many christians aren't able to live life according to the Bible doesn't it's wrong or that we should disregard it. What you are proving is that not many christians actually live according to the Bible. Although the point of following the Bible is not to avoid nastiness, just look what happened to the only man who was without sin. He ended up dying on a cross.

 

 

 

Maybe I just wish that for once there could be a black and white issue. It's like one time in my religious class. The question was whether you were for or against abortion and my answer was pretty much: "I don't need to have an opinion as I won't ever be facing a decision whether to make an abortion or not." A rather naive answer perhaps and today I wouldn't answer like that but it derives from my values. I thought that if I wouldn't have sex unless I was prepared to face the consequence of a baby, abortion would never be an issue.

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Says the guy who takes one line of text out of context in several paragraphs of writing. I'm not talking about this thread though.

 

 

 

And so what if I wanted to point out a glaring flaw without needing to pick apart every inane statement in that paragraph? Some of us have better things to do, most of the time.

 

 

 

Like have premarital sex.

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so, Korskin, let me get this straight: because people have pre-marital sex, they hire prostitutes....wouldn;t people who don;t get any hire the prostitutes since the people having pre-marital sex are getting some, and don;t need "extra"? same with rape. So actually, doesn;t pre-marital sex (and marital sex) actually prevent prostitution and rape?

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Says the guy who takes one line of text out of context in several paragraphs of writing. I'm not talking about this thread though.

 

 

 

And so what if I wanted to point out a glaring flaw without needing to pick apart every inane statement in that paragraph? Some of us have better things to do, most of the time.

 

 

 

Like have premarital sex.

 

 

 

z0mg i'm calling the gestapo

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Maybe I just wish that for once there could be a black and white issue. It's like one time in my religious class. The question was whether you were for or against abortion and my answer was pretty much: "I don't need to have an opinion as I won't ever be facing a decision whether to make an abortion or not." A rather naive answer perhaps and today I wouldn't answer like that but it derives from my values. I thought that if I wouldn't have sex unless I was prepared to face the consequence of a baby, abortion would never be an issue.

 

 

 

You do understand you may have to make the choice someday? Some pregnancies threaten the life of the mother, and they have to choose to have an abortion to increase their chances of living, or not have one and possibly they and the baby could die. You do have an opinion, and this closed minded 'well I will never have to make that decision' crap doesn't work. You may have to.

 

 

 

On the subject of sex before marriage, who cares? It's not your choice to be calling people [bleep] or prudes depending on their views.having sex before marriage doesn't increase the chances of abortion, prostitution, STDs or any of that if you use proper protection, most of the 'I'm against' it views are flawed or biased. Probably the lack of sex before marriage would lead to prostitution rater than having sex. :lol:

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