Well, you guys have CGS (Championship Gaming Series)

 

 

 

They play; FIFA 2007, DOA4 male and female, PGR and CS:Source.

 

 

 

A shame they play source tho :x

[hide]

So? It's like that in American sports too. Every kid under the sun wants to be in the NFL, NBA, MLB (myself included :D ), etc. and their chances are slim to none. They play sports everyday for 8 hours, thinking the same thing that the Korean gamers think, with the same results as the Korean gamers. Sure, their may be the difference that playign the sports would make you more physically active, but that's beside the point.

 

Beside the point? Don't try and hide the humongous flaw in your argument- playing sports not only trains the body, but it makes people more dedicated, determined, and persevering. Sure, not everyone goes pro, but they still never lose the valuable lessons they gained from playing the sport.

 

 

 

Gaming... er... no. Just no. You try and go pro, and you fail, and everything you've done trying to go pro was a total waste of time. Trying to be a pro gamer is pathetic, trying to be a pro in a sport is not. Do you have a single coherent argument to the contrary?

 

Does that make it a good thing to aim for, just because it makes you physically active?

 

Hell yes it does.

 

 

 

Don't criticize Korean gamers for having some kind of pro sport that's exactly like every other pro-whatever across the world, just because their's happens to be gaming.

 

Gaming is worthless. It's fun and entertaining, but c'mon, don't bother trying to argue that playing Kingdom Hearts at two in the morning is just as good as training all day at summer Football camp.

 

 

 

:lol:

 

And for the record, gaming doesn't turn people into mindless nerds, that's stupid. I usually game daily, and I KNOW I am smarter because of it.

 

Wrong. You are not smarter because of gaming. You are smarter because of dedication to school and learning.

 

I've been gaming since I was 3, and it's taught me to read, do all sorts of math, learn basics of economy (take a guess at which MMORPG I'm talking about :wink: ), learn little-known facts, the list goes on.

 

That's just pathetic. Gaming doesn't help you, so stop acting like it does, and move on.

 

 

 

Oh, and you think you're learning about economy by playing a certain MMORPG? Think again. The economy in that game is completely and utterly different than the real world economy, i.e. it's absolutely worthless knowledge in the real world.

 

 

 

Unless, of course, you're about to take a trip to the Middle East to go test your haggling skills.

 

And for the record, I'm not talking about those purposefully intelligent games like leapfrog and stuff, I'm talkin' bout games like Super Metroid and Megaman X. Even though I game so much, I'm still fit. I work out and play basketball and baseball. Your view on gaming was very...mainstream (that was the best way for me to put it).

 

You are fit and smart in spite of playing games, not because of playing games, genius.

 

 

 

Ah, now I feel nostalgic of all the arguments with people trying to justify Runescape as educational and good for you... good times, good times.[/hide]

 

 

 

What are you're views on non physical sports ie; bowling, archery, darts, snooker etc. Are they losers because it isn't physical?

 

It depends on the "sport".

 

 

 

When doing something like bowling you don't really have to endure pain (like you do in physical sports) and you don't have to do physical training (though you do for archery), but you still gain life trades. I would say without a doubt that when I'm 40 with kids, I'd rather know that I can bowl a 230 than know I can pwn at Halo. It's just a life trade that you know you're going to use throughout your life, and you know is going to wow people. Archery I'd consider in the same way- how cool would it be to be able to hit a target dead on from 100 meters away? Now, compare that to being able to own with Megaman. It's just better.

 

 

 

Darts though is a little more recreational (I'd consider the pros recreational somewhat as well, but they're hella a good); I wouldn't really consider it a valuable life skill, nor something amazing, but it's kind of cool. I'd probably put that in with video games because it really doesn't take any pain to get good at it, there's no stress involved, and it's just done for fun, just like gaming.

 

 

 

So again, it depends on the "sport".

 

 

 

Also, I'm not saying anyone's a loser dude :lol: . I'm just stating my views of what is valuable time, and I don't consider most gaming valuable spent time. It's entertainment, it's fun, it's relaxing, it's enjoyable- they're games. I mean, it's good to play them to kick back and relax, but it's not exactly time spent for your future; it's time spent for now.

In the same vein, darts doesn't teach you situational awareness or team co-ordination and leadership in the way that a guild battle on Guild Wars does.

 

 

 

So where's your argument going?

Yeah yeah I know bro, I wasn't going on an attack, was just wondering what you thought of the non-physical sports. I do agree, gaming for a career is kinda lame. But if you do make it big, the money that can be had is really good. But if you fail, you haven't really learnt anything valuable to better yourself as a person. Which is exactly the same as doing any sport IMO.

 

 

 

So what, you're healtheir, but you're as dumb as a brick, congratulations. Like trapical brought up, unless you do it through a College/Uni I don't think it will better you as a person that much at all. Teaches you team work, dicipline, yay, I learnt that at kindergarten?

 

 

 

I used to swim competatively. 11 Times a week, 4.30am - 7am Mon - Sat. 5pm - 7pm Mon - Fri. Although it has made me a much healthier person, and being able to swim well is a very good thing to be able to do. It hasn't taught me any of lifes hardships, if I do something well, I don't stop and think "Yeah, it's because I used to swim five years ago". I got a skill out of it, only value I got is I have to put alot of time, and practice into anything I do to become good at it. Which I'm sure a gamer also appreciates.

In the same vein, darts doesn't teach you situational awareness or team co-ordination and leadership in the way that a guild battle on Guild Wars does.

 

 

 

So where's your argument going?

 

I don't play Guild Wars, but in all honesty, do you learn all that much practical information about teamwork playing Guild Wars? Most of what you learn has to do with understanding the game more than real life. Though, again, I don't play, so you'll have to excuse my ignorance for a second. What happens during guild battles, and what about those guild battles (between you in your teammates) helps you in the real world, other than blatantly just saying "teamwork"? How often do people take leadership positions? What else can you tell me about it that would convince me that it's well used time, in comparison to say, soccer?

 

 

 

Oh, and again, I'm already not an advocate for darts (I'm talking about real sports here, or at least getting up to archery please), and when I was putting it in the group with video games, I wasn't just talking about online stuff- I was including Megaman, Zelda, all that stuff that is, in a manner of speaking, totally worthless. Most benefits from games come from multiplayer games (that involve teamwork and coordination), but a vast number, possibly even the majority of games, are pretty much one player, and generally pretty useless.

 

 

 

Massive EDIT:

 

Yeah yeah I know bro, I wasn't going on an attack, was just wondering what you thought of the non-physical sports. I do agree, gaming for a career is kinda lame. But if you do make it big, the money that can be had is really good. But if you fail, you haven't really learnt anything valuable to better yourself as a person. Which is exactly the same as doing any sport IMO.

 

 

 

So what, you're healtheir, but you're as dumb as a brick, congratulations. Like trapical brought up, unless you do it through a College/Uni I don't think it will better you as a person that much at all. Teaches you team work, dicipline, yay, I learnt that at kindergarten?

 

 

 

I used to swim competatively. 11 Times a week, 4.30am - 7am Mon - Sat. 5pm - 7pm Mon - Fri. Although it has made me a much healthier person, and being able to swim well is a very good thing to be able to do. It hasn't taught me any of lifes hardships, if I do something well, I don't stop and think "Yeah, it's because I used to swim five years ago". I got a skill out of it, only value I got is I have to put alot of time, and practice into anything I do to become good at it. Which I'm sure a gamer also appreciates.

 

See, one of the lines I put between gaming and sports is that I play games solely for having fun. If I've had a rough day, or if I just got a C on a test, or if I'm just bored, playing games is a great way to have fun [with friends and family, or just alone]. It's great for relaxing, great for relieving stress, and great for owning that annoying 14 year old across the screen who won't shut up about how much he thinks he rocks at all Xbox live games. Good feeling.

 

 

 

Sports, on the other hand, I do play for fun, but I also play them to get better, which is unlike what my goals are when gaming. When I'm out on the soccer field with ten minutes left in the game, bruised by the 6'5" guy I'm marking, and sucking wind playing outside mid as my asthma starts kicking in, I'm out there not because it's fun to be barely able to breathe, I'm out there to win, to get better, and to beat that mammoth I'm guarding's face into the ground. That's the line I draw between sports and gaming- fun isn't my only goal, it's about getting better, it's about winning.

 

 

 

I don't play a game to win, I just want to have fun. Do you guys play games to have with the sole purpose of having fun, or do you play moreso to get better at the game, even to go pro? If so, that difference in opinion may be the reason why we're having a conflicting reasoning.

In the same vein, darts doesn't teach you situational awareness or team co-ordination and leadership in the way that a guild battle on Guild Wars does.

 

 

 

So where's your argument going?

 

I don't play Guild Wars, but in all honesty, do you learn all that much practical information about teamwork playing Guild Wars? Most of what you learn has to do with understanding the game more than real life. Though, again, I don't play, so you'll have to excuse my ignorance for a second. What happens during guild battles, and what about those guild battles (between you in your teammates) helps you in the real world, other than blatantly just saying "teamwork"? How often do people take leadership positions? What else can you tell me about it that would convince me that it's well used time, in comparison to say, soccer?

 

 

 

Oh, and again, I'm already not an advocate for darts (I'm talking about real sports here, or at least getting up to archery please), and when I was putting it in the group with video games, I wasn't just talking about online stuff- I was including Megaman, Zelda, all that stuff that is, in a manner of speaking, totally worthless. Most benefits from games come from multiplayer games (that involve teamwork and coordination), but a vast number, possibly even the majority of games, are pretty much one player, and generally pretty useless.

 

 

 

Many many times in guild battles I've taken the role of a leader, you have to be organized in the game or you'll lose. Yeah a small part of it is knowing what does what and what kind of team build you're using but a large part of it is teamwork.

I don't play Guild Wars, but in all honesty, do you learn all that much practical information about teamwork playing Guild Wars? Most of what you learn has to do with understanding the game more than real life. Though, again, I don't play, so you'll have to excuse my ignorance for a second. What happens during guild battles, and what about those guild battles (between you in your teammates) helps you in the real world, other than blatantly just saying "teamwork"? How often do people take leadership positions? What else can you tell me about it that would convince me that it's well used time, in comparison to say, soccer?

 

Of course you do.

 

 

 

There's a lot to be learned, first of all, about making sure everyone is doing what they're supposed to be doing at any given moment. If they're not, that's a cue for you to use leadership skills, in this case, the time-honoured, "What the hell are you doing, get back here, do what you're supposed to be doing, jerk," which, unfortunately, is not actually as easy as it seems when you're trying to co-ordinate your own movements and giving orders to the rest of the team.

 

 

 

One person will normally take the lead role in these. The others have to concentrate on other things: namely, following orders that are sometimes counter-intuitive and doing that as soon as the order is given, at the same time as trying to stay alive and do their jobs.

 

 

 

Of course you need to know game mechanics, but there's a lot more to be learned about co-ordination. As a leader, you learn to trust whoever you're in charge of to do their jobs properly. It's all too easy to fall back to checking what everyone's doing every few seconds and making sure everything is perfect. Past a certain point, you just have to trust your team so you can concentrate on the big picture. Even things like forcing the line of battle forward at the flag stand or suppressing the enemy while someone else fires the catapult take much more leadership than would be readily apparent.

 

 

 

It's the difference between the Roman legion and the screaming Gallic hordes.

 

 

 

For people who live too far away from each other to play soccer or whatever, it's a great way to build bonds and kick arse at the same time.

 

 

 

Of course, given that you used single-player games as a reference, that's a bit of a straw man argument because a number of them don't develop much beyond reaction times and hand-eye coordination. Other games like RTSs have much more value than, say, Pong.

Of course, given that you used single-player games as a reference, that's a bit of a straw man argument because a number of them don't develop much beyond reaction times and hand-eye coordination. Other games like RTSs have much more value than, say, Pong.

 

 

 

Likewise I'd consider single player games a lot like just shooting some baskets in basketball or playing catch with a football. It helps you with basic skills but not much beyond that.

Yeah, of course it is a difference in opinion. Single player games, I don't play to get better, they're soley to pass the time.

 

 

 

But multi-player games I would play to improve my general skill. I play CS:S and I am in a clan, and we do play to get better and practice.

 

 

 

But I don't take it to the extreme, I still make an effort to stay active, I still swim, but only recreationally, do weights. I don't spend anymore then two hours a day on gaming during the week. But I still view it as 'getting better'.

 

 

 

EDIT::

 

 

 

But, but, but, but haha sorry for the terrible read.

Before I go into my responses, I'd like to make my stance clear: I believe that certain games definitely be benefitial to oneself in regards to leadership, teamwork, and miscellaneous (sp?) advantages (I mean, I've read Ender's Game, I know how games can help :P ), but I feel that it is not right to say that gaming is just as valuable as sports, or that time spent trying to go pro in a sport is a waste of time. If you don't disagree with that stance, then we don't really have a conflict of opinion at all :P .

 

I don't play Guild Wars, but in all honesty, do you learn all that much practical information about teamwork playing Guild Wars? Most of what you learn has to do with understanding the game more than real life. Though, again, I don't play, so you'll have to excuse my ignorance for a second. What happens during guild battles, and what about those guild battles (between you in your teammates) helps you in the real world, other than blatantly just saying "teamwork"? How often do people take leadership positions? What else can you tell me about it that would convince me that it's well used time, in comparison to say, soccer?

 

Of course you do.

 

Hehe, took me a while to get what you were saying/referring to. Nah, I've never played it, I've heard of it but never played. Not everyone on a Runescape forum has to be an expert on online gaming :P .

 

 

 

[Guild Wars explanation.]

 

 

 

It's the difference between the Roman legion and the screaming Gallic hordes.

 

 

 

For people who live too far away from each other to play soccer or whatever, it's a great way to build bonds and kick arse at the same time.

 

 

 

Of course, given that you used single-player games as a reference, that's a bit of a straw man argument because a number of them don't develop much beyond reaction times and hand-eye coordination. Other games like RTSs have much more value than, say, Pong.

 

It's not really a straw man, as I'm not only not saying that I win the argument with it, but it's more of a reference to Choco's (who I have yet to get a response from :| ) post, which only contained single player mindless games. If we want to talk about video games, we can't rule out the ones that don't help your argument, but including them still doesn't mean that I think I've won, as any example of video games helping one in real life has immeasurable value for your argument. I can see how you think it's a bit of a straw man though, oh well >_<.

 

 

 

I'll concede that games can have real world value (only multiplayer games have any substantial amount of benefit though, I wouldn't exactly think of learning what a battle ax is as something all that substantial),but playing sports is, in my opinion, much more valuable in regards to the future. You get everything that the multiplayer games can offer (teamwork, leadership), and then some, and then some. Dedication, physical training, endurance training, a valuable skill, I mean, there's a reason colleges like to see people passionate and dedicated to a sport. I just don't see how any video games can even begin to compare to being as valuable as playing on the field. Online multiplayer is the only thing that comes anywhere close, but even then...

 

 

 

But again, it's just the difference of opinion that makes it hard for us to understand eachother ^_^".

 

 

 

Yeah, of course it is a difference in opinion. Single player games, I don't play to get better, they're soley to pass the time.

 

 

 

But multi-player games I would play to improve my general skill. I play CS:S and I am in a clan, and we do play to get better and practice.

 

 

 

But I don't take it to the extreme, I still make an effort to stay active, I still swim, but only recreationally, do weights. I don't spend anymore then two hours a day on gaming during the week.

 

 

 

EDIT::

 

 

 

But, but, but, but haha sorry for the terrible read.

 

I don't get it, if you're arguing that gaming is just as valuable as sports (sorry if I'm misinformed, a few people have made that point on this thread), why are you putting gaming in a negative light, while putting sports and athletics in a positive light? That is, could you see yourself saying:

 

 

 

But I don't take my swimming to the extreme, I still make an effort to play games, I still play Halo, but only recreationally, do CS:S. I don't spend anymore then two hours a day on swimming during the week.

 

(gaming<->swimming)

for the record, you guys talking about leadership and how a game can better ones self.

 

i would like to say i think runescape is that game for me.

 

iv learned so much and not just about the game but to be more organized in real life, setting goals for my self that are reasonable, planing ahead, and lol i didn't know what a range was till after i played rs

Gaming all the time is stupid, no matter where you live. I'm not flaming gamers, games do help you with soooo much stuff, such as reflexes, teamwork (check out xbox live), puzzles and problem solving skills, and motor skills(Wii, Guitar Hero, etc.).

 

 

 

I game only on weekends, as all week I'm usually training for wrestling/soccer. But I do believe it helps you, as long as you stay fit and don't camp out in your room gaming nonstop. One of my buddies plays games a lot, and he's the one of the best goalies we've ever had.

 

 

 

There's my 2 cents.

Nah nah, my point is that they're both just as pointless/purposeful as each other. If you put all your eggs in one basket either which way you're going to be incredibly dissapointed and have nothing to fall back on.

 

 

 

My bottom line is they're just as good as each other, but don't go overboard with either, such as what I did (20+ hours of swimming a week, no matter how much 'dicipline' you learn will always hurt your grades, they're not light training sessions either, I would of usually swum 6km by the time I got to school, leaving me incredibly drained for the school day).

 

 

 

All in moderation ya know.

 

 

 

If you don't do anything but game, to become pro, and don't do any study, you suck. If you do nothing but a sport and no study, you also suck equally as much.

It's not really a straw man, as I'm not only not saying that I win the argument with it, but it's more of a reference to Choco's (who I have yet to get a response from :| ) post, which only contained single player mindless games.

 

 

 

You wanna know why I wouldn't respond?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

 

 

 

 

 

..I was too lazy to have to answer the post section by section like you do. :P

 

 

 

Alright, but if you want me to, I'll reply. Gimmie a while though, I got homework. :P

for the record, you guys talking about leadership and how a game can better ones self.

 

i would like to say i think runescape is that game for me.

 

iv learned so much and not just about the game but to be more organized in real life, setting goals for my self that are reasonable, planing ahead, and lol i didn't know what a range was till after i played rs

 

When most people here talk about 'leadership' and 'organization' they refer to being able to manage and organize a team of people to achieve a common goal. Not something you find in a single-player game but more towards your team/party based games.

hmmmm......youre right, but its not only korea.

 

 

 

in the netherlands youre no longer a "nerd" when you play games and have a lot of electronics, ....

 

 

 

 

 

i read an article that if you game in the netherlands youre actually smarter than if you dont.

 

 

 

remember the tip.its article where someone stated that he learned a lot of runescape?

 

for most people is gaming the main reason they speak an language.

 

you can see the difference in the class, people who dont game score lower than people who do.

hmmmm......youre right, but its not only korea.

 

 

 

in the netherlands youre no longer a "nerd" when you play games and have a lot of electronics, ....

 

 

 

i read an article that if you game in the netherlands youre actually smarter than if you dont.

 

 

 

remember the tip.its article where someone stated that he learned a lot of runescape?

 

for most people is gaming the main reason they speak an language.

 

you can see the difference in the class, people who dont game score lower than people who do.

 

 

 

Wow talk about a badly done survey. Any professional survey company should realize that there is a difference between:

 

-two things that go hand in hand

 

-a correlation between these two things

 

 

 

For example, I could release a revolutionary survey that said "A recent study found out that the most of the people who pee standing up are men! Therefore peeing while standing seems to be a primary cause of what determines your gender! If you pee while standing, chances are you will become a male!" :-s

 

 

 

See what I mean? Gaming doesn't make you smarter than the average person anymore that peeing while standing, or using a men's bathroom will make you a male. You reversed the points.

 

-Being a male means you are likely to use a men's bathroom.

 

-Smarter people are more likely to play video games. (Not the other way around)

 

 

 

Smarter people play more games since most of the smarter people spend more times indoors studying or reading when they were a lot younger. Meanwhile the everyone else was spending more times outdoors playing sports/running around. As these kids age the people that played outdoors when they were young grow up to become kids that like being sports and have lots a outdoor friends. Meanwhile the "smart" kids grow up and have friends like themselves, friends that are used to staying indoors. They prefer to play video games or learn computer tricks since they are used to staying inside and reading or watching educational children's videos.

hmmmm......youre right, but its not only korea.

 

 

 

in the netherlands youre no longer a "nerd" when you play games and have a lot of electronics, ....

 

 

 

i read an article that if you game in the netherlands youre actually smarter than if you dont.

 

 

 

remember the tip.its article where someone stated that he learned a lot of runescape?

 

for most people is gaming the main reason they speak an language.

 

you can see the difference in the class, people who dont game score lower than people who do.

 

 

 

Wow talk about a badly done survey. Any professional survey company should realize that there is a difference between:

 

-two things that go hand in hand

 

-a correlation between these two things

 

 

 

For example, I could release a revolutionary survey that said "A recent study found out that the most of the people who pee standing up are men! Therefore peeing while standing seems to be a primary cause of what determines your gender! If you pee while standing, chances are you will become a male!" :-s

 

 

 

See what I mean? Gaming doesn't make you smarter than the average person anymore that peeing while standing, or using a men's bathroom will make you a male. You reversed the points.

 

-Being a male means you are likely to use a men's bathroom.

 

-Smarter people are more likely to play video games. (Not the other way around)

 

 

 

Smarter people play more games since most of the smarter people spend more times indoors studying or reading when they were a lot younger. Meanwhile the everyone else was spending more times outdoors playing sports/running around. As these kids age the people that played outdoors when they were young grow up to become kids that like being sports and have lots a outdoor friends. Meanwhile the "smart" kids grow up and have friends like themselves, friends that are used to staying indoors. They prefer to play video games or learn computer tricks since they are used to staying inside and reading or watching educational children's videos.

 

 

 

 

 

yes but take this:

 

 

 

girls in the netherlands usually play games that are in dutch,

 

but boys(...becaus of runescape and WOW) cant do that, or dont do it that much, becaus then they cant talk to other(foreigned) people.

 

and boys are usually a lot better in english

 

 

 

(note: while girls have been proven to be better at languages, like french and german latin, greek)

let people get on with their own lives.