Wow, this is an impossible battle to partake on a gaming forum.

 

 

 

I never dismissed gaming as something that no one should ever do. Sure people can game on the weekends or after work if they have the time, thats fantastic.

 

 

 

Gaming in the casual context is fine. But I was referring to the OP when I said why would you want to live in Korea, where people have full fledged jobs as professional gamers. Hundreds soon to be thousands of teens drop out of college each year and play games nearly 24/7 with the hopes of "going pro" Perhaps 1 kid every 5 years does 'become pro' and gets sponsors and stars in commercials, much like a celebrity.

 

 

 

The problem is, what about the other thousand kids who dropped out of universities to get better at games. What will they do now? A bigger problem is the fact that the Korean media portrays these professional gamers as heroes and celebrities, thus todays youth in Korea has the connotation that "if I grow up playing video games every possible minute, I can become famous!"

 

 

 

South Korea as we know it is successful because of the generation that grew up during the Korean war became determined to bring success to their war torn country, they wanted to be prove to North Korea that capitalism was better, so they worked tremendously hard and created corporations like Samsung and LG from scratch. The current generation seems hellbent on creating not new electronics giants from scratch, but instead creating a half dozen really popular "professional gamers"

 

 

 

So? It's like that in American sports too. Every kid under the sun wants to be in the NFL, NBA, MLB (myself included :D ), etc. and their chances are slim to none. They play sports everyday for 8 hours, thinking the same thing that the Korean gamers think, with the same results as the Korean gamers. Sure, their may be the difference that playign the sports would make you more physically active, but that's beside the point. Does that make it a good thing to aim for, just because it makes you physically active? Don't criticize Korean gamers for having some kind of pro sport that's exactly like every other pro-whatever across the world, just because their's happens to be gaming.

 

 

 

And for the record, gaming doesn't turn people into mindless nerds, that's stupid. I usually game daily, and I KNOW I am smarter because of it. I've been gaming since I was 3, and it's taught me to read, do all sorts of math, learn basics of economy (take a guess at which MMORPG I'm talking about :wink: ), learn little-known facts, the list goes on. And for the record, I'm not talking about those purposefully intelligent games like leapfrog and stuff, I'm talkin' bout games like Super Metroid and Megaman X. Even though I game so much, I'm still fit. I work out and play basketball and baseball. Your view on gaming was very...mainstream (that was the best way for me to put it).

So? It's like that in American sports too. Every kid under the sun wants to be in the NFL, NBA, MLB (myself included :D ), etc. and their chances are slim to none. They play sports everyday for 8 hours, thinking the same thing that the Korean gamers think, with the same results as the Korean gamers. Sure, their may be the difference that playign the sports would make you more physically active, but that's beside the point.

 

Beside the point? Don't try and hide the humongous flaw in your argument- playing sports not only trains the body, but it makes people more dedicated, determined, and persevering. Sure, not everyone goes pro, but they still never lose the valuable lessons they gained from playing the sport.

 

 

 

Gaming... er... no. Just no. You try and go pro, and you fail, and everything you've done trying to go pro was a total waste of time. Trying to be a pro gamer is pathetic, trying to be a pro in a sport is not. Do you have a single coherent argument to the contrary?

 

Does that make it a good thing to aim for, just because it makes you physically active?

 

Hell yes it does.

 

 

 

Don't criticize Korean gamers for having some kind of pro sport that's exactly like every other pro-whatever across the world, just because their's happens to be gaming.

 

Gaming is worthless. It's fun and entertaining, but c'mon, don't bother trying to argue that playing Kingdom Hearts at two in the morning is just as good as training all day at summer Football camp.

 

 

 

:lol:

 

And for the record, gaming doesn't turn people into mindless nerds, that's stupid. I usually game daily, and I KNOW I am smarter because of it.

 

Wrong. You are not smarter because of gaming. You are smarter because of dedication to school and learning.

 

I've been gaming since I was 3, and it's taught me to read, do all sorts of math, learn basics of economy (take a guess at which MMORPG I'm talking about :wink: ), learn little-known facts, the list goes on.

 

That's just pathetic. Gaming doesn't help you, so stop acting like it does, and move on.

 

 

 

Oh, and you think you're learning about economy by playing a certain MMORPG? Think again. The economy in that game is completely and utterly different than the real world economy, i.e. it's absolutely worthless knowledge in the real world.

 

 

 

Unless, of course, you're about to take a trip to the Middle East to go test your haggling skills.

 

And for the record, I'm not talking about those purposefully intelligent games like leapfrog and stuff, I'm talkin' bout games like Super Metroid and Megaman X. Even though I game so much, I'm still fit. I work out and play basketball and baseball. Your view on gaming was very...mainstream (that was the best way for me to put it).

 

You are fit and smart in spite of playing games, not because of playing games, genius.

 

 

 

Ah, now I feel nostalgic of all the arguments with people trying to justify Runescape as educational and good for you... good times, good times.

Okay, I'll give you guys that, you can pick up a few things from video games... But from MegaManX or Metroid? Lol, right you learn that ice beams are good against fire monsters. Thats handy.

 

 

 

And besides all the actual benefits from sports, let me just point out one quick fact. Let's say you want to go pro in a sport. What do you do? You go to college so you can play for the university team. While in college, you are required to take the classes and maintain a certain GPA to stay on the team. Thus when 99% of the athletes finish college and don't make it pro, they at least have a college diploma in hand.

 

 

 

Meanwhile kids that want to become pro gamers stay at home, don't go to college, and play Halo for days on end. They never make it pro and end up having to work at a GameStop for minimum wage. But at least they learned that rocket launchers are better against helicopters than plasma rifles.

Okay, I'll give you guys that, you can pick up a few things from video games... But from MegaManX or Metroid? Lol, right you learn that ice beams are good against fire monsters. Thats handy.

 

 

 

And besides all the actual benefits from sports, let me just point out one quick fact. Let's say you want to go pro in a sport. What do you do? You go to college so you can play for the university team. While in college, you are required to take the classes and maintain a certain GPA to stay on the team. Thus when 99% of the athletes finish college and don't make it pro, they at least have a college diploma in hand.

 

 

 

Meanwhile kids that want to become pro gamers stay at home, don't go to college, and play Halo for days on end. They never make it pro and end up having to work at a GameStop for minimum wage. But at least they learned that rocket launchers are better against helicopters than plasma rifles.

 

 

 

And in football you learn you need to get the ball to the other side, I don't see your point.

 

 

 

 

 

A stupid person will not go to college. Trying to bring that into this is irrelevant.

 

 

 

Also a football player going into college will most likely choose a phony degree (if you want to do some stereotypes here). When they graduate and don't go pro they are stuck with some random degree that isn't going to help them in the real world.

 

 

 

 

 

Beside the point? Don't try and hide the humongous flaw in your argument- playing sports not only trains the body, but it makes people more dedicated, determined, and persevering. Sure, not everyone goes pro, but they still never lose the valuable lessons they gained from playing the sport.

 

 

 

Gaming... er... no. Just no. You try and go pro, and you fail, and everything you've done trying to go pro was a total waste of time. Trying to be a pro gamer is pathetic, trying to be a pro in a sport is not. Do you have a single coherent argument to the contrary?

 

 

 

Sorry but I have to disagree. Play a game as a team sport, it does teach many of the same things. You have to be dedicated, determined and persevering and have to focus to win with your team. Just like in any game (digitalized or not) teamwork takes several skills, which you listed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pro gaming right now is obviously very small right now. Some people can break through, do good and get companies to sponsor them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I don't get the most is that football is a game. Yet we praise them for all they can do and don't think twice about other games that take skill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, trapical, I agree that obviously everyone shouldn't strive to be a pro gamer. No one ever doubted you on that. However what would you say to Americas huge glamorization of pro sports? Don't you think that those people should do something better, become doctors or layers? I mean all they are doing is playing a silly game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And finally, one (hypothetical question). If a college actually had pro gaming as a sport in it, would you be more supportive of it? Pretty much if gaming turned into more than just a college club and into something like what college football, or hokey is. Would you say that at least they are getting a degree as well then?

So? It's like that in American sports too. Every kid under the sun wants to be in the NFL, NBA, MLB (myself included :D ), etc. and their chances are slim to none. They play sports everyday for 8 hours, thinking the same thing that the Korean gamers think, with the same results as the Korean gamers. Sure, their may be the difference that playign the sports would make you more physically active, but that's beside the point.

 

Beside the point? Don't try and hide the humongous flaw in your argument- playing sports not only trains the body, but it makes people more dedicated, determined, and persevering. Sure, not everyone goes pro, but they still never lose the valuable lessons they gained from playing the sport.

 

 

 

Gaming... er... no. Just no. You try and go pro, and you fail, and everything you've done trying to go pro was a total waste of time. Trying to be a pro gamer is pathetic, trying to be a pro in a sport is not. Do you have a single coherent argument to the contrary?

 

 

 

Nah, you're right, it's wasted time, going for pro-anything is gonna almost always gonna be wasted time. I'm not saying going for a pro-gaming career is smart, it's way too slim a chance.

 

 

 

Does that make it a good thing to aim for, just because it makes you physically active?

 

Hell yes it does.

 

 

 

I think you misunderstood me. Are you saying it's good to aim for being a pro-athlete? Yeah, it keeps you fit, but what if you fail? It's the same situation as you stated with pro-gaming, wasted time. I doubt you could use your amazing battign kills to land a job as a lawyer. :|

 

 

 

Don't criticize Korean gamers for having some kind of pro sport that's exactly like every other pro-whatever across the world, just because their's happens to be gaming.

 

Gaming is worthless. It's fun and entertaining, but c'mon, don't bother trying to argue that playing Kingdom Hearts at two in the morning is just as good as training all day at summer Football camp.

 

 

 

:lol:

 

 

 

Gaming isn't worthless, as I've stated below. It may've been for you, but it wasn't for me.

 

 

 

And for the record, gaming doesn't turn people into mindless nerds, that's stupid. I usually game daily, and I KNOW I am smarter because of it.

 

Wrong. You are not smarter because of gaming. You are smarter because of dedication to school and learning.

 

 

 

Yes, I am. I had basic reading skills before I entered school, and I could add and subtract double and triple digit problems. I don't know why you're telling me gaming didn't make me smarter, I learned stuff from games that I never heard from school (not corny stuff like memorizing how to use the Hadoken fireball, real stuff that I use and still do).

 

 

 

I've been gaming since I was 3, and it's taught me to read, do all sorts of math, learn basics of economy (take a guess at which MMORPG I'm talking about :wink: ), learn little-known facts, the list goes on.

 

That's just pathetic. Gaming doesn't help you, so stop acting like it does, and move on.

 

 

 

Oh, and you think you're learning about economy by playing a certain MMORPG? Think again. The economy in that game is completely and utterly different than the real world economy, i.e. it's absolutely worthless knowledge in the real world.

 

 

 

Unless, of course, you're about to take a trip to the Middle East to go test your haggling skills.

 

 

 

It's pathetic that I learned something while actually enjoying it? Okay. :?

 

 

 

I learned about supply-and-demand, and how sensitive the economy can truely be. Wanna explain how the fudamental ideas of the captialism in RS is different from the fundamental ideas of the capitalism in the USA?

 

 

 

And for the record, I'm not talking about those purposefully intelligent games like leapfrog and stuff, I'm talkin' bout games like Super Metroid and Megaman X. Even though I game so much, I'm still fit. I work out and play basketball and baseball. Your view on gaming was very...mainstream (that was the best way for me to put it).

 

You are fit and smart in spite of playing games, not because of playing games, genius.

 

 

 

Ah, now I feel nostalgic of all the arguments with people trying to justify Runescape as educational and good for you... good times, good times.

 

 

 

I'll admit that me being fit had nothing to do with the games, but it did make me smarter, and I stand by that and will continue to. You didn't give me any proof about how gaming didn't help me get smarter, you were just like "No, it didn't". :?

And in football you learn you need to get the ball to the other side, I don't see your point.

 

 

 

A stupid person will not go to college. Trying to bring that into this is irrelevant.

 

 

 

Also a football player going into college will most likely choose a phony degree (if you want to do some stereotypes here). When they graduate and don't go pro they are stuck with some random degree that isn't going to help them in the real world.

 

I wasn't just referring to football btw, which is sort of a silly sport. I fail to see how learning how to throw a ball or how to run into someone really hard will help you in life. I was referring to sports like track, swimming, etc that give you useful traits. Everyone needs to run someone at some point, having been in track for sometime will give that person a better running ability, and better cardiovascular health for the rest of their life. Same with swimming, you lower blood pressure and improve heart health. But I digress, and I don't really think you meant for your arguments to be that specific :wink:

 

 

 

Sorry but I have to disagree. Play a game as a team sport, it does teach many of the same things. You have to be dedicated, determined and persevering and have to focus to win with your team. Just like in any game (digitalized or not) teamwork takes several skills, which you listed.

 

 

 

What I don't get the most is that football is a game. Yet we praise them for all they can do and don't think twice about other games that take skill.

 

You have a good point here. The answer to your question doesn't make a strong case for me, but it answers your questions.

 

 

 

1) The health argument. People devote a lot of time to their "game" of choice. People also need to devote a substantial amount of time to fitness. Might as well do both at once.

 

 

 

2) People need role models. Athletes are examples of physical perfection, which we all have an evolutionary attractiveness to. Example of a stereotypical gamer vs athlete. Obviously that stereotype doesn't hold true for all gamers and all athletes but it is the general trend. I don't blame Americans for looking up to athletes instead of gamers.

 

 

 

3) Gaming and sports... It's just not the same. I can only describe this in an anecdote that anyone who has ever ran a race can relate to. In practice you run until you are tired and then feel like slowing down so you do. But in a meet with a rival you start out running faster and seeing your competition drives you faster and harder. As you make it to the last 100 yards you have already shattered your time trail record but are still neck and neck with your competitor. 75 yards to go, months of training reward you as the countless muscles in your legs work together with perfection that has been made possible by millions of years of evolution; you are the product of thousands of generations, and you are in your prime. 50 yards to go and you are totally numb with adrenaline running faster than you ever thought you could, you get tunnel vision as you try to pull just a few inches ahead of the guy next to you. 25 yards to go, your rival has managed to pull ahead about half a foot in front of you now, you look to the side and see your classmates and peers cheering your name, lending you their will and hope... the prestige of the entire school is on your will now. How fast can your will yourself to go? This race is no longer physical, it's all mental. You give one final burst of speed and triumphantly cross the finish line a hair ahead of the other guys. You get an endorphin high and everyone around you is saying congratulations. You look at your rival and he smiles at you and says congratulations as well, he knows more than anyone else how hard your performed. You congratulate him back for a great race and then go and talk to your classmates who await you with open arms.

 

Meanwhile an up and coming pro gamer has a really hard Halo 2 match. He memorized all the respawn points and has gotten really good at shooting people in the head with the sniper rifle. He knows its a hard match but that really doesn't change that much. Does he "play harder" than he ever has in the past? Is that even possible? In the end his opponent spawns in a bad spot next to no guns and is easily mowed down. Our hero wins the match, says "LOL, n3wb" and then drinks some Mountain Dew.

 

 

 

This was an exaggeration but I think you can see my point. Physical sports require mental and physical training. Also athletes are able to "push themselves" to perform while gaming only requires knowledge of the game. :|

 

 

 

Also, trapical, I agree that obviously everyone shouldn't strive to be a pro gamer. No one ever doubted you on that. However what would you say to Americas huge glamorization of pro sports? Don't you think that those people should do something better, become doctors or layers? I mean all they are doing is playing a silly game.

 

Bleh, I hate pro sports. And yes it's sad that a baseball player can make 100x as much money as a chief diplomat or the head neuro surgeon at Johns Hopkins But oh well, I can't change that.

 

Still though, I think I would rather have a culture of children who try to emulate athletes than one that has everyone emulating pro gamers. I mean my god, look at how obese the kids are nowadays and thats WITH the huge emphasis on pro athletics! If that emphasis was gone...*whistle* things would not be pretty.

 

 

 

And finally, one (hypothetical question). If a college actually had pro gaming as a sport in it, would you be more supportive of it? Pretty much if gaming turned into more than just a college club and into something like what college football, or hokey is. Would you say that at least they are getting a degree as well then?

 

Very interesting concept. I don't really know for sure, but I think yes, I would be a bit more supportive. Granted if there was a pro gaming league when I have kids, I think I would be more comfortable with them having an interest in say, tennis, than in pro gaming.

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

The thing that really gets me, being a pseudo evolutionary biologist, is the fact that for millions of years physical activity and competition have been around. Look at wolves, they actaully have races with their brothers and there has even been footage of a papa wolf playing Frisbee with his 6 month old son using a thin caribou bone. Physical sports and competition are great things and are part of our culture and our eternal past. Giving them up for competition where two people sit at computers for hours at end simply doesn't seem right to me. Sorry but thats just how I feel about it.

Beside the point? Don't try and hide the humongous flaw in your argument- playing sports not only trains the body, but it makes people more dedicated, determined, and persevering. Sure, not everyone goes pro, but they still never lose the valuable lessons they gained from playing the sport.

 

 

 

Gaming... er... no. Just no. You try and go pro, and you fail, and everything you've done trying to go pro was a total waste of time. Trying to be a pro gamer is pathetic, trying to be a pro in a sport is not. Do you have a single coherent argument to the contrary?

 

 

 

Nah, you're right, it's wasted time, going for pro-anything is gonna almost always gonna be wasted time. I'm not saying going for a pro-gaming career is smart, it's way too slim a chance.

 

For the love of God, going for the pro in a sport doesn't interfere with your life (and if it did, you'd be one hell of a dedicated person), it only makes you stronger. Gaming does not.

 

 

 

So no, going for pro in sports is not wasted time.

 

 

 

Does that make it a good thing to aim for, just because it makes you physically active?

 

Hell yes it does.

 

 

 

I think you misunderstood me. Are you saying it's good to aim for being a pro-athlete? Yeah, it keeps you fit, but what if you fail? It's the same situation as you stated with pro-gaming, wasted time. I doubt you could use your amazing battign kills to land a job as a lawyer. :|

 

Yes, it is good to aim for being a pro-athlete, even if you don't make it (awesome if you do). As I already stated, athletes tend to have higher levels of dedication and determination thanks to all the training and hardships they endure, on top of being fit and tough. You don't endure hardships and pain in video games- you just waste time.

 

 

 

I can't fully understand this, are you seriously saying that time spent gaming is just as valuable as time spent on the field? Give me a frikking argument for that, 'cause I right now I can not percieve it as anything but a risible, ludicrous stance.

 

 

 

Gaming isn't worthless, as I've stated below. It may've been for you, but it wasn't for me.

 

Pertaining to your future, yes it is. You haven't posted a single coherent argument to the contrary.

 

 

 

Stop telling me that you think you've learned something, and tell me what you've learned.

 

Yes, I am. I had basic reading skills before I entered school, and I could add and subtract double and triple digit problems. I don't know why you're telling me gaming didn't make me smarter, I learned stuff from games that I never heard from school (not corny stuff like memorizing how to use the Hadoken fireball, real stuff that I use and still do).

 

Examples please, I haven't seen a single one yet.

 

 

 

It's pathetic that I learned something while actually enjoying it? Okay. :?

 

 

 

I learned about supply-and-demand, and how sensitive the economy can truely be. Wanna explain how the fudamental ideas of the captialism in RS is different from the fundamental ideas of the capitalism in the USA?

 

Supply and demand is common sense. I hate when people talk like they understand economics just because they've heard of supply and demand- a two year old could understand the concept.

 

 

 

You did not learn how sensitive the real world economy could be, both because the real world is unlike the game in every imaginable way, and because the Runescape economy never went under any disturbances that could damage it, ever, just price fluctuations.

 

 

 

And the differences between the two economies are innumerable. You don't see any corporations in Runescape, do you? How 'bout interest rates? A stock market? You can't even begin to compare Runescape to the real world- they're two completely different entities dude.

 

 

 

And for the record, what's pathetic is trying to justify gaming instead of just playing it, not that you got a history lesson from it ("hey, I learned what a battle ax is!").

 

You are fit and smart in spite of playing games, not because of playing games, genius.

 

 

 

Ah, now I feel nostalgic of all the arguments with people trying to justify Runescape as educational and good for you... good times, good times.

 

 

 

I'll admit that me being fit had nothing to do with the games, but it did make me smarter, and I stand by that and will continue to. You didn't give me any proof about how gaming didn't help me get smarter, you were just like "No, it didn't". :?

 

Then, please tell me, put me in my place, what have you learned about life from playing Metroid and Megaman?

I find myself agreeing with Trapical. Yeah, video games are fun. Yeah, it's something fun to do in a few hours of free time. But it can be taken too far. There's better things you can do with your life, after all.

I wasn't just referring to football btw, which is sort of a silly sport. I fail to see how learning how to throw a ball or how to run into someone really hard will help you in life. I was referring to sports like track, swimming, etc that give you useful traits. Everyone needs to run someone at some point, having been in track for sometime will give that person a better running ability, and better cardiovascular health for the rest of their life. Same with swimming, you lower blood pressure and improve heart health. But I digress, and I don't really think you meant for your arguments to be that specific

 

 

 

I see. And yeah I never really meant it that specific, it was mostly just an example. In other games as well you learn what this 'goal' is, be it get to the other side or what.

 

 

 

1) The health argument. People devote a lot of time to their "game" of choice. People also need to devote a substantial amount of time to fitness. Might as well do both at once.

 

 

 

I get what you're saying but I think it would still be fine if you can devote time to both, and shouldn't be a huge factor. The one thing you can factor in too is it is much more dangerous to play a pro sport than it is pro gaming, one injury and your career can be ruined. There is a less chance of injury while gaming.

 

 

 

 

 

2) People need role models. Athletes are examples of physical perfection, which we all have an evolutionary attractiveness to. Example of a stereotypical gamer vs athlete . Obviously that stereotype doesn't hold true for all gamers and all athletes but it is the general trend. I don't blame Americans for looking up to athletes instead of gamers.

 

 

 

Understood, and I don't blame them either with the way society is. However I think it'd be cool for a normal person to watch a 'pro gamer' and think "wow, he's really skilled at that". I do understand your point though.

 

 

 

 

 

3) Gaming and sports... It's just not the same. I can only describe this in an anecdote that anyone who has ever ran a race can relate to. In practice you run until you are tired and then feel like slowing down so you do. But in a meet with a rival you start out running faster and seeing your competition drives you faster and harder. As you make it to the last 100 yards you have already shattered your time trail record but are still neck and neck with your competitor. 75 yards to go, months of training reward you as the countless muscles in your legs work together with perfection that has been made possible by millions of years of evolution; you are the product of thousands of generations, and you are in your prime. 50 yards to go and you are totally numb with adrenaline running faster than you ever thought you could, you get tunnel vision as you try to pull just a few inches ahead of the guy next to you. 25 yards to go, your rival has managed to pull ahead about half a foot in front of you now, you look to the side and see your classmates and peers cheering your name, lending you their will and hope... the prestige of the entire school is on your will now. How fast can your will yourself to go? This race is no longer physical, it's all mental. You give one final burst of speed and triumphantly cross the finish line a hair ahead of the other guys. You get an endorphin high and everyone around you is saying congratulations. You look at your rival and he smiles at you and says congratulations as well, he knows more than anyone else how hard your performed. You congratulate him back for a great race and then go and talk to your classmates who await you with open arms.

 

Meanwhile an up and coming pro gamer has a really hard Halo 2 match. He memorized all the respawn points and has gotten really good at shooting people in the head with the sniper rifle. He knows its a hard match but that really doesn't change that much. Does he "play harder" than he ever has in the past? Is that even possible? In the end his opponent spawns in a bad spot next to no guns and is easily mowed down. Our hero wins the match, says "LOL, n3wb" and then drinks some Mountain Dew.

 

 

 

I have to give my own anecdotal evidence really, to this.

 

 

 

I was playing a 5v5 clan match in an older half life mod called Firearms. In the beginning we were fairly unorganized and were just getting destroyed. The game uses a 'reinforcements' system, which basicly means every death subtracts a reinforcement on your side and vice versa. There also are these supply crates which will give your side reinforcements back.

 

 

 

Anyways we are sitting here in this match and are down really low. We had something like 100 reinforcements and they had 200, it looked hopeless. We were on ventrilo at the time and a lot of us were just giving up. I kept on telling them that we could do it and we came up with a plan.

 

 

 

A good friend of mine would rush them through the backway. We had 3 others camping at our base, guarding the crates and finally we had me sitting midway.

 

 

 

 

 

The plan was working. We ended up evening the score, than finally putting it to 1-1, and we won.

 

 

 

 

 

The only reason we won that match is because we didn't give up to the end and worked on something different.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, another story. We all know what adrenline rushes are, and to be truthful a lot of times it can happen in a game. When the odds are against you (you're at a sliver of health and this thing you're fighting still has half) and its almost as if your reflexes are perfect, and you manage to dodge or block everything and finish it off. There is a video of this somewhere online (can't find it) of a street fighter tournement. Contrary to what you think you can "push" your self to get that extra mile (so to speak) in a game.

 

 

 

 

 

This was an exaggeration but I think you can see my point. Physical sports require mental and physical training. Also athletes are able to "push themselves" to perform while gaming only requires knowledge of the game.

 

 

 

its more than just knowledge of the game, but they need excelent reflexes as well. While a pro track person may work on being able to last longer while running fast, or trying to sprint faster a gamer may be working on his reflexes. How fast can he react to something that happens?

 

 

 

A newer gamer will probably have a slow reaction time. It takes a lot more than just knowing how a game works to win.

 

 

 

Bleh, I hate pro sports. And yes it's sad that a baseball player can make 100x as much money as a chief diplomat or the head neuro surgeon at Johns Hopkins But oh well, I can't change that.

 

Still though, I think I would rather have a culture of children who try to emulate athletes than one that has everyone emulating pro gamers. I mean my god, look at how obese the kids are nowadays and thats WITH the huge emphasis on pro athletics! If that emphasis was gone...*whistle* things would not be pretty.

 

 

 

I would rather see one where children can emulate both and see the good sides of both. Of course thats only in a perfect world.

 

 

 

 

 

The thing that really gets me, being a pseudo evolutionary biologist, is the fact that for millions of years physical activity and competition have been around. Look at wolves, they actaully have races with their brothers and there has even been footage of a papa wolf playing Frisbee with his 6 month old son using a thin caribou bone. Physical sports and competition are great things and are part of our culture and our eternal past. Giving them up for competition where two people sit at computers for hours at end simply doesn't seem right to me. Sorry but thats just how I feel about it.

 

 

 

Well the big thing is no other race has or has had opportunities to technology. Gaming in general is still very new. There is no way we can tell if it was the actual physical activity or just the actual act of being together and doing something together.

Understood Nadril, you do bring several valid points. I think we both agree the truth lies somewhere inbetween us. Thanks for the debate, it was one of the most civil ones I have ever had on tip.it :)

Understood Nadril, you do bring several valid points. I think we both agree the truth lies somewhere inbetween us. Thanks for the debate, it was one of the most civil ones I have ever had on tip.it :)

 

 

 

Agreed. I deffinitly think that the balance is somewhere in the middle, and moderation is the key. :)

Wow, this is an impossible battle to partake on a gaming forum.

 

 

 

I never dismissed gaming as something that no one should ever do. Sure people can game on the weekends or after work if they have the time, thats fantastic.

 

 

 

Gaming in the casual context is fine. But I was referring to the OP when I said why would you want to live in Korea, where people have full fledged jobs as professional gamers. Hundreds soon to be thousands of teens drop out of college each year and play games nearly 24/7 with the hopes of "going pro" Perhaps 1 kid every 5 years does 'become pro' and gets sponsors and stars in commercials, much like a celebrity.

 

 

 

The problem is, what about the other thousand kids who dropped out of universities to get better at games. What will they do now? A bigger problem is the fact that the Korean media portrays these professional gamers as heroes and celebrities, thus todays youth in Korea has the connotation that "if I grow up playing video games every possible minute, I can become famous!"

 

 

 

South Korea as we know it is successful because of the generation that grew up during the Korean war became determined to bring success to their war torn country, they wanted to be prove to North Korea that capitalism was better, so they worked tremendously hard and created corporations like Samsung and LG from scratch. The current generation seems hellbent on creating not new electronics giants from scratch, but instead creating a half dozen really popular "professional gamers"

 

 

 

So? It's like that in American sports too. Every kid under the sun wants to be in the NFL, NBA, MLB (myself included :D ), etc. and their chances are slim to none. They play sports everyday for 8 hours, thinking the same thing that the Korean gamers think, with the same results as the Korean gamers. Sure, their may be the difference that playign the sports would make you more physically active, but that's beside the point. Does that make it a good thing to aim for, just because it makes you physically active? Don't criticize Korean gamers for having some kind of pro sport that's exactly like every other pro-whatever across the world, just because their's happens to be gaming.

 

 

 

And for the record, gaming doesn't turn people into mindless nerds, that's stupid. I usually game daily, and I KNOW I am smarter because of it. I've been gaming since I was 3, and it's taught me to read, do all sorts of math, learn basics of economy (take a guess at which MMORPG I'm talking about :wink: ), learn little-known facts, the list goes on. And for the record, I'm not talking about those purposefully intelligent games like leapfrog and stuff, I'm talkin' bout games like Super Metroid and Megaman X. Even though I game so much, I'm still fit. I work out and play basketball and baseball. Your view on gaming was very...mainstream (that was the best way for me to put it).

 

 

 

i agree with whatshisface, above. I learned toread and math and stuff cuz of japanese games with ppl with wierd names. Like when i was five, went to daycare, was an outcast without a gameboy. got one and pokemon blue, and i fit in. Learned to read...i dont like pokemon anymore im almsto 14

on page 3, some of u guys saying pro sports is useless and stupid and they get overpaid. some get overpaid, but if u watch movies and play some of these sports, you know how many ridiculous(sp?) hours of training and weightlifting they have to do. Football is not useless by they way, it teaches teamwork toughtness and other stuff like dedication. Also, i wouldnt call it a sport, but taekwondoe aint worthless. i do it and its pretty tough to memorize all the stuff.

on page 3, some of u guys saying pro sports is useless and stupid and they get overpaid. some get overpaid, but if u watch movies and play some of these sports, you know how many ridiculous(sp?) hours of training and weightlifting they have to do.

 

And professional gamers don't have their own training regimes? I don't see being able to micro like some of those insane Starcraft players as something you are born with.

 

 

 

Football is not useless by they way, it teaches teamwork toughtness and other stuff like dedication.

 

Oh, and obviously gaming can't possibly teach anything, like leadership, problem solving, organisation and situational awareness skills.

 

 

 

No, not at all.

 

 

 

Also, i wouldnt call it a sport, but taekwondoe aint worthless. i do it and its pretty tough to memorize all the stuff.

 

Tae kwon do is a sport. It is nothing but.

Don't get me into a desire to list off skills you can learn from games.

 

 

 

 

 

Zonorhc is on the ball here, a lot of gamers have skills so fine-tuned which are usefull in the real-world because of how good they are at the games they play. RTS and team/party/squad based FPS/MMO are perhaps the two most benificial games you can possibly play aside from the usual 'problem solving' collection.

the 'dealing with idiots' skills you can learn from an MMO are endless. Also teamwork, Strategy, quick thinking...

At least Americans arnt scared of fan death.

 

 

 

Pssshhh that's nonsense. I have three fans running in here right now, and nothing bad has ha- *dies* :-s

In my school almost everyone plays video games, not like hardcore, but who dosen't love playing burning some time waiting for that party, by playing games. I think its really a waste to play a game for more than like 2 hours. I mean sure, i sometimes go over to a friends house, dish out that new copy of madden, or relax with some halo, its great fun, but if you play too much, your just wasting your life.

but if you play too much, your just wasting your life.

 

 

 

It's also a waste going out every night and getting drunk and all high and stuff. It's a waste to study every single night, spending from the time you get home to the time you go to bed in books.

 

 

 

In a sense, its not a waste to play games. Its a way people want to spend their lives. Dont call people's life styles a waste.

I think its good to play video games, just that when you have nothing to talk about other then video games, thats what begins to wind me up. for instance, kids in my class. There just so goddamn boring!! YES I GET THE FREAKIN' MESSAGE. YOU HAVE A FRICKIN WII. GOOD FOR YOU.

I think its good to play video games, just that when you have nothing to talk about other then video games, thats what begins to wind me up. for instance, kids in my class. There just so goddamn boring!! YES I GET THE FREAKIN' MESSAGE. YOU HAVE A FRICKIN WII. GOOD FOR YOU.

 

 

 

And I find it boring to listen to people who talk about nothing other than sports. Or how much they hate their school/class, or whatever.

 

 

 

 

 

Guess what, different people enjoy different things. Don't talk to them if you don't share their same interests!

but if you play too much, your just wasting your life.

 

 

 

It's also a waste going out every night and getting drunk and all high and stuff. It's a waste to study every single night, spending from the time you get home to the time you go to bed in books.

 

 

 

In a sense, its not a waste to play games. Its a way people want to spend their lives. Dont call people's life styles a waste.

 

I beg to differ Lionheart. I can see your argument with gaming vs getting high, but in comparison to studying?

 

 

 

A good friend of mine, six years my senior, spent his college life studying to become an Astro-physicist. Everyone else was playing PS1 or out drinking and he spent those 4 years in the library. Now he is an engineer at Lockheed Martin. He joined the team of the 100 or so people that are designing and building the replace for the space shuttle. He uses his knowledge of the things he studied and with it is building the ships that will carry men to Mars and beyond.

 

 

 

One of my professors spoke of when he was a 4th year medical student back in the 90s. He was taking the bus back to his apartment and a 35 year old man on the bus collapsed after an apparent heart attack. The Med School taught him CPR two years ago as part of a class. Although they were told they would never be tested on it, my professor had studied it and spent the time to review it every few months with the feeling that one day he might need it. He saved that man's life on the bus that day.

 

 

 

 

 

Let me tell you another true story. My best friend in elementary and middle school was "Joe". Well, Joe was a genius, the smartest guy I knew. He was lazy though, as most geniuses are. He rarely if ever did his homework since he instead preferred to play NES or Gameboy. He averaged C's in middle school despite his intellect but always said "your grades don't matter until High School." He was correct in this point but when High School did roll around, old habits die hard. He became a huge tech nerd and was hired by the school to help out with the network. He knew everything there was to know about Windows, C++, you name it. He graduated with a 1.9 GPA and barly got into a local technical school. He wanted to become a computer programmer but still had a huge fondness for video gaming. He never attended classes and got kicked out of the college.

 

 

 

Joe was, without a doubt, smarter than I am or ever will be in terms of IQ. Hell, he is probably smarter than the aforementioned professor who saved that guys life on the bus. But Joe didn't study, he played games.

 

 

 

Joe now works for Wal-Mart.

 

 

 

 

 

[/100% true story]

There is something wrong in the West when it stigmatises and sometimes demonises gaming, while in places like South Korea, hot chicks will swarm all over you for being good at Starcraft.

 

Don't you have it backwards :-s ?

 

 

 

Eh, whatever floats your boat :-w .

 

 

 

Oh, and thank you trapical for covering Lionheart's post :P . That post was just.... off, but you had far better anecdotal counterpoints than I do :P .

 

 

 

Also, I'm confused, are you guys arguing that video games are just as valuable as playing sports or studying, or are you just expressing that it has at least some real world value (which is kind of a given)? And how much of gaming do you guys consider valuable (i.e., I'd consider a clan vs. clan game of GRAW2 great for building teamwork, reliability, strategizing [under pressure], steadyness, and reflexes, but playing a solo game like Megaman totally worthless)?

[hide]

So? It's like that in American sports too. Every kid under the sun wants to be in the NFL, NBA, MLB (myself included :D ), etc. and their chances are slim to none. They play sports everyday for 8 hours, thinking the same thing that the Korean gamers think, with the same results as the Korean gamers. Sure, their may be the difference that playign the sports would make you more physically active, but that's beside the point.

 

Beside the point? Don't try and hide the humongous flaw in your argument- playing sports not only trains the body, but it makes people more dedicated, determined, and persevering. Sure, not everyone goes pro, but they still never lose the valuable lessons they gained from playing the sport.

 

 

 

Gaming... er... no. Just no. You try and go pro, and you fail, and everything you've done trying to go pro was a total waste of time. Trying to be a pro gamer is pathetic, trying to be a pro in a sport is not. Do you have a single coherent argument to the contrary?

 

Does that make it a good thing to aim for, just because it makes you physically active?

 

Hell yes it does.

 

 

 

Don't criticize Korean gamers for having some kind of pro sport that's exactly like every other pro-whatever across the world, just because their's happens to be gaming.

 

Gaming is worthless. It's fun and entertaining, but c'mon, don't bother trying to argue that playing Kingdom Hearts at two in the morning is just as good as training all day at summer Football camp.

 

 

 

:lol:

 

And for the record, gaming doesn't turn people into mindless nerds, that's stupid. I usually game daily, and I KNOW I am smarter because of it.

 

Wrong. You are not smarter because of gaming. You are smarter because of dedication to school and learning.

 

I've been gaming since I was 3, and it's taught me to read, do all sorts of math, learn basics of economy (take a guess at which MMORPG I'm talking about :wink: ), learn little-known facts, the list goes on.

 

That's just pathetic. Gaming doesn't help you, so stop acting like it does, and move on.

 

 

 

Oh, and you think you're learning about economy by playing a certain MMORPG? Think again. The economy in that game is completely and utterly different than the real world economy, i.e. it's absolutely worthless knowledge in the real world.

 

 

 

Unless, of course, you're about to take a trip to the Middle East to go test your haggling skills.

 

And for the record, I'm not talking about those purposefully intelligent games like leapfrog and stuff, I'm talkin' bout games like Super Metroid and Megaman X. Even though I game so much, I'm still fit. I work out and play basketball and baseball. Your view on gaming was very...mainstream (that was the best way for me to put it).

 

You are fit and smart in spite of playing games, not because of playing games, genius.

 

 

 

Ah, now I feel nostalgic of all the arguments with people trying to justify Runescape as educational and good for you... good times, [/hide]good times.

 

 

 

What are you're views on non physical sports ie; bowling, archery, darts, snooker etc. Are they losers because it isn't physical?

I sometimes wish america was like korea. I mean, there are some korean exchange kids at my school. at a party, me and another guy played some dancing game with arrows (DDR, DDS or something?). well, while i was getting my butt whooped struggling on the easiest level, the other dude played on a higher difficulty, mastering every move! and get this, he was on his CELL PHONE half the time!