Flag-defiling charge ends in fight, arrests

[jokemaster]

Asheville ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ A couple who said they were protesting the state of the country by flying the U.S. flag upside down with signs pinned to it found themselves in jail following a scuffle with a deputy Wednesday morning.

 

 

 

Mark and Deborah Kuhn were arrested on two counts of assault on a government employee, resisting arrest and a rarely used charge, desecrating an American flag, all misdemeanors. The Kuhns were released from custody Wednesday afternoon.

 

 

 

 

 

ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅThis is surreal,ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[Kiriyama]

Nice freedom of speech there.

[Necromagus]

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Un-Americans

As indicated by the name, the Un-Americans differed from previous incarnations of Team Canada in that they were anti-American rather than pro-Canadian. As a result of this, the emblem of the stable was not the Canadian flag, but an American flag flown upside down. This upside down flag was emblazoned on their t-shirts.

Maybe the cop was just a wrasslin' fan?

[Intriguing]

i'm so glad don't live in america.. hope australia doesn't become like that (if it already is, i'm not aware of it)

[Nanosauromo]

Freedom of speech, eh?

[Giordano]

Freedom of Speech? OH YEAH! I 'member when we had that. Good times eh?

 

Seriously, we DONT have Freedom of Friggin Speach anymore! This is an Imperial Government god damnit!

[yomom1919]

I dont get why you guys are surprised, its common knowledge that you get in deep [cabbage] for messing up flags.

[neocrosby]

Disgusting. People have a right to be disgusted with their country. These people have good right. Its a stupid piece of cloth. Do what you please with it. The Officer should be charged with breaking and entering. Kinda ridiculous how the wife called 911. You're calling the problem to fix the problem, ya know... this is a police state, you really think you are going to be saved? Give me a Break. Free Speech is spat upon when things like this happen, even if the couple were to be cited, that isn't fair... you have to go through the court system, just for wanting to publicize this countries problems? This would most likely incur several missed days of work, fines, court fees, all the other BS that united states courts come along with. I fly a flag upside down in my window, and have yet to have any problems. I hope this kind of stuff doesn't happen to me.

[nyyankees588]

Well this is extremely interesting. I live in Asheville and it has been kind of a big deal. Let me give you an idea of what Asheville is really like so you can understand it more :wink:. Asheville is kinda on the wierd side lots of hippies, activists, and also a lot of rich republicans. There is always something weird going on... At one point there was a man downtown who was wearing a bikini and just walking around for a weekend or to. I think this was something that could have related from soldiers who were pissed off at the people for not supporting them. Trust me, about every 1 in 3 cars here has a bumper sticker saying something about bringing the troops home or against the Bush administration. I don't blame them. I also think it was something where the people were being stubborn and the officer overreacted to a certain degree.

[Rose_2_Pure]

Defiling the American Flag is against the law. If you break the law you pay, you people need to stop flaming the government saying you have no free speech, because the fact is you do. But it's simply AGAINST THE LAW do defile the American flag and they had to pay jthe price. Simple.

[das1330]

damn hippies. They were not arrested because of desecrating the flag, and if they just took the citation they probably wouldn't have been convicted, because of free speech protections. They were arrested because the guy punched a police officer in the face. Thats like being pulled over for speeding, then shooting the police officer in the face as hes talking and driving off, then blaming the police because you were not speeding. The issue here isn't the people desecrating the flag, its attacking the police officer over it.

[nyyankees588]

damn hippies. They were not arrested because of desecrating the flag, and if they just took the citation they probably wouldn't have been convicted, because of free speech protections. They were arrested because the guy punched a police officer in the face. Thats like being pulled over for speeding, then shooting the police officer in the face as hes talking and driving off, then blaming the police because you were not speeding. The issue here isn't the people desecrating the flag, its attacking the police officer over it.

 

Mate I live in Asheville and I think you need to shut your mouth. They were not hippies and what the hell do you have against hippies? It is still unclear whether or not they did punch the officer. There were witnesses who claim that they locked the door and went to call the police and the police man then, with force knocked the door down.

[das1330]

damn hippies. They were not arrested because of desecrating the flag, and if they just took the citation they probably wouldn't have been convicted, because of free speech protections. They were arrested because the guy punched a police officer in the face. Thats like being pulled over for speeding, then shooting the police officer in the face as hes talking and driving off, then blaming the police because you were not speeding. The issue here isn't the people desecrating the flag, its attacking the police officer over it.

 

Mate I live in Asheville and I think you need to shut your mouth. They were not hippies and what the hell do you have against hippies? It is still unclear whether or not they did punch the officer. There were witnesses who claim that they locked the door and went to call the police and the police man then, with force knocked the door down.

 

 

 

They perceived the dominant culture as a corrupt, monolithic entity that exercised undue power over their lives, calling this culture "The Establishment", "Big Brother", or "The Man"

 

 

 

from wikipedia. I don't even need opinions to convey my point. Aside from that, all hippies I have ever known have been idiots, and completely worthless people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Scarborough told Mark Kuhn he was going to be issued a citation and asked for identification. Kuhn refused, slammed the door on the deputyÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s hand, breaking the glass pane out of the door and cutting ScarboroughÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s hand, the SheriffÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s Office said.

 

 

 

 

If that actually happened as the sheriff said it, then they assaulted the police officer right there and he therefor has a duty to enter the house to arrest them.

[hellbellz]

i'm so glad don't live in america.. hope australia doesn't become like that (if it already is, i'm not aware of it)

Oh no. Just because one incident means the whole country is like that. :roll:

[insane]

Disgusting. People have a right to be disgusted with their country. These people have good right. Its a stupid piece of cloth. Do what you please with it. The Officer should be charged with breaking and entering. Kinda ridiculous how the wife called 911. You're calling the problem to fix the problem, ya know... this is a police state, you really think you are going to be saved? Give me a Break. Free Speech is spat upon when things like this happen, even if the couple were to be cited, that isn't fair... you have to go through the court system, just for wanting to publicize this countries problems? This would most likely incur several missed days of work, fines, court fees, all the other BS that united states courts come along with. I fly a flag upside down in my window, and have yet to have any problems. I hope this kind of stuff doesn't happen to me.

 

 

 

Since when does defiling a flag constitute as "speech". Your right to free speech ends when you use it to break another law. The person in question here broke a Law; in doing so they forfeit their right to free speech. Why do you think people can sue for libel and slander? Because free speech doesn't mean you can say and express whatever the hell you want; there are conditions attached. You are angry at a police officer for upholding a law; I don't see how you can expect the officer to uphold two contradictory laws (free speech and defiling a flag) simultaneously; it's impossible.

[Tetsuya]

Pretty damn ridiculous that there's still laws banning people doing certain things to the American flag. Such laws are so hypocritical it isn't even funny.

[PaperClipsYaaaar]

Disgusting. People have a right to be disgusted with their country. These people have good right. Its a stupid piece of cloth. Do what you please with it. The Officer should be charged with breaking and entering. Kinda ridiculous how the wife called 911. You're calling the problem to fix the problem, ya know... this is a police state, you really think you are going to be saved? Give me a Break. Free Speech is spat upon when things like this happen, even if the couple were to be cited, that isn't fair... you have to go through the court system, just for wanting to publicize this countries problems? This would most likely incur several missed days of work, fines, court fees, all the other BS that united states courts come along with. I fly a flag upside down in my window, and have yet to have any problems. I hope this kind of stuff doesn't happen to me.

 

 

 

Since when does defiling a flag constitute as "speech". Your right to free speech ends when you use it to break another law. The person in question here broke a Law; in doing so they forfeit their right to free speech. Why do you think people can sue for libel and slander? Because free speech doesn't mean you can say and express whatever the hell you want; there are conditions attached. You are angry at a police officer for upholding a law; I don't see how you can expect the officer to uphold two contradictory laws (free speech and defiling a flag) simultaneously; it's impossible.

 

He's not angry at the police officer. He's angry at the law against flag burning. Like the immigration debate and the slavery debate, this is not about whether people are breaking the law, but whether the law should exist at all.

[llcoolguy972]

Disgusting. People have a right to be disgusted with their country. These people have good right. Its a stupid piece of cloth. Do what you please with it. The Officer should be charged with breaking and entering. Kinda ridiculous how the wife called 911. You're calling the problem to fix the problem, ya know... this is a police state, you really think you are going to be saved? Give me a Break. Free Speech is spat upon when things like this happen, even if the couple were to be cited, that isn't fair... you have to go through the court system, just for wanting to publicize this countries problems? This would most likely incur several missed days of work, fines, court fees, all the other BS that united states courts come along with. I fly a flag upside down in my window, and have yet to have any problems. I hope this kind of stuff doesn't happen to me.

 

 

 

Since when does defiling a flag constitute as "speech". Your right to free speech ends when you use it to break another law. The person in question here broke a Law; in doing so they forfeit their right to free speech. Why do you think people can sue for libel and slander? Because free speech doesn't mean you can say and express whatever the hell you want; there are conditions attached. You are angry at a police officer for upholding a law; I don't see how you can expect the officer to uphold two contradictory laws (free speech and defiling a flag) simultaneously; it's impossible.

 

 

 

It's freedom of expression, and their rights were violated. Whenever someone burns a flag or does something like this they get arrested for "defiling a flag," but what about all the companies that make flag underwear. Peacefully protesting a war is against the law, but wearing the American flag as a thong isn't? It's not a two way street.

 

 

 

Edit: But the couple shouldn't have acted the way they did. Getting behind someone who was practicing civil disobedience is a lot easier than someone who was evading arrest like a drunk on Cops.

[nyyankees588]

damn hippies. They were not arrested because of desecrating the flag, and if they just took the citation they probably wouldn't have been convicted, because of free speech protections. They were arrested because the guy punched a police officer in the face. Thats like being pulled over for speeding, then shooting the police officer in the face as hes talking and driving off, then blaming the police because you were not speeding. The issue here isn't the people desecrating the flag, its attacking the police officer over it.

 

Mate I live in Asheville and I think you need to shut your mouth. They were not hippies and what the hell do you have against hippies? It is still unclear whether or not they did punch the officer. There were witnesses who claim that they locked the door and went to call the police and the police man then, with force knocked the door down.

 

 

 

They perceived the dominant culture as a corrupt, monolithic entity that exercised undue power over their lives, calling this culture "The Establishment", "Big Brother", or "The Man"

 

 

 

from wikipedia. I don't even need opinions to convey my point. Aside from that, all hippies I have ever known have been idiots, and completely worthless people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Scarborough told Mark Kuhn he was going to be issued a citation and asked for identification. Kuhn refused, slammed the door on the deputyÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s hand, breaking the glass pane out of the door and cutting ScarboroughÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s hand, the SheriffÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s Office said.

 

 

 

 

If that actually happened as the sheriff said it, then they assaulted the police officer right there and he therefor has a duty to enter the house to arrest them.

 

 

 

Ok dude.. let me get this straight you go on wikipedia and get a definition of hippies and say that they all are like that?? I happen to know some idiot. They all aren't extremists. And fyi there is freedom of speech so why cant they feel that way. You are way out of your place in saying that they all are that way imo. And I LIVE IN ASHEVILLE there have been developments in the case, and they are still not quite sure whether or not he slammed the door; breaking the glass; or if the deputy broke the glass window and reached in and unlocked the door like several eyewitnesses said. And with the whole hippy thing they were not necessarily hippies I have seen their picture etc and if your going along the biased way of looking at hippies and how they wear tie-die etc they were most certainly not. I think you really are being biased in your saying that they were hippies and saying what you did about hippies... Also I guess your implying that anyone who choses to act out against the government is a hippy? I will check back in the morning.

[das1330]

 

Ok dude.. let me get this straight you go on wikipedia and get a definition of hippies and say that they all are like that?? I happen to know some idiot. They all aren't extremists. And fyi there is freedom of speech so why cant they feel that way. You are way out of your place in saying that they all are that way imo. And I LIVE IN ASHEVILLE there have been developments in the case, and they are still not quite sure whether or not he slammed the door; breaking the glass; or if the deputy broke the glass window and reached in and unlocked the door like several eyewitnesses said. And with the whole hippy thing they were not necessarily hippies I have seen their picture etc and if your going along the biased way of looking at hippies and how they wear tie-die etc they were most certainly not. I think you really are being biased in your saying that they were hippies and saying what you did about hippies... Also I guess your implying that anyone who choses to act out against the government is a hippy? I will check back in the morning.

 

 

 

Not all of them are extremists, in fact, very few of them are extremists, hence the title "extreme". But when you don't fit the definition of a group, you are not usually part of that group. That statement is part of the definition of hippies. What you said would be like calling a yellow orange a banana. It just doesent fit. As far as free speech, I never said I would deny them the right to do whatever the hell they wanted.... as long as it wasnt breaking any laws, which in this case they were, according to that news story they attacked a sheriff, which is a law in my book, and illegal even if you are a hippie.

 

 

 

And with the whole hippy thing they were not necessarily hippies I have seen their picture etc and if your going along the biased way of looking at hippies and how they wear tie-die etc they were most certainly not.

 

 

 

Refresh me again to where I said all hippies where tie-dye shirts

 

 

 

Also I guess your implying that anyone who choses to act out against the government is a hippy?

 

 

 

In this case, yes. If you want to change something, there is much better ways then deliberately annoying your neighbors and attacking the police.

[Nero]

.... as long as it wasnt breaking any laws, which in this case they were, according to that news story they attacked a sheriff, which is a law in my book, and illegal even if you are a hippie.

 

 

 

 

There. Is. No. Conrete. Proof. That. They. Actually. Attacked. Him!

 

 

 

And with the whole hippy thing they were not necessarily hippies I have seen their picture etc and if your going along the biased way of looking at hippies and how they wear tie-die etc they were most certainly not.

 

 

Refresh me again to where I said all hippies where tie-dye shirts

 

 

 

 

--

 

 

 

In this case, yes. If you want to change something, there is much better ways then deliberately annoying your neighbors and attacking the police.

 

 

 

1.) Who's to say the neighboors didn't also agree with their views?

 

2.) There. Is. No. Conrete. Proof. That. They. Actually. Attacked. Him! So the officer said his version of what happened. Should you believe him just because he has a badge? Hell no. There are bad cops and there a good cops and you should always look at both sides of the story before saying that what the cop did was right just because he has the badge.

[insane]

Disgusting. People have a right to be disgusted with their country. These people have good right. Its a stupid piece of cloth. Do what you please with it. The Officer should be charged with breaking and entering. Kinda ridiculous how the wife called 911. You're calling the problem to fix the problem, ya know... this is a police state, you really think you are going to be saved? Give me a Break. Free Speech is spat upon when things like this happen, even if the couple were to be cited, that isn't fair... you have to go through the court system, just for wanting to publicize this countries problems? This would most likely incur several missed days of work, fines, court fees, all the other BS that united states courts come along with. I fly a flag upside down in my window, and have yet to have any problems. I hope this kind of stuff doesn't happen to me.

 

 

 

Since when does defiling a flag constitute as "speech". Your right to free speech ends when you use it to break another law. The person in question here broke a Law; in doing so they forfeit their right to free speech. Why do you think people can sue for libel and slander? Because free speech doesn't mean you can say and express whatever the hell you want; there are conditions attached. You are angry at a police officer for upholding a law; I don't see how you can expect the officer to uphold two contradictory laws (free speech and defiling a flag) simultaneously; it's impossible.

 

 

 

It's freedom of expression, and their rights were violated.

 

 

 

You don't understand; freedom of expression only holds as long as other laws aren't being broken. I can't say "oh, don't arrest me for murder officer, it's just how I express my views!", because I am breaking another law; do not murder. Just like you cannot say "don't arrest me for defiling a flag officer, it's just how I express my views!", because I am breaking another law.

[nyyankees588]

 

Ok dude.. let me get this straight you go on wikipedia and get a definition of hippies and say that they all are like that?? I happen to know some idiot. They all aren't extremists. And fyi there is freedom of speech so why cant they feel that way. You are way out of your place in saying that they all are that way imo. And I LIVE IN ASHEVILLE there have been developments in the case, and they are still not quite sure whether or not he slammed the door; breaking the glass; or if the deputy broke the glass window and reached in and unlocked the door like several eyewitnesses said. And with the whole hippy thing they were not necessarily hippies I have seen their picture etc and if your going along the biased way of looking at hippies and how they wear tie-die etc they were most certainly not. I think you really are being biased in your saying that they were hippies and saying what you did about hippies... Also I guess your implying that anyone who choses to act out against the government is a hippy? I will check back in the morning.

 

 

 

Not all of them are extremists, in fact, very few of them are extremists, hence the title "extreme". But when you don't fit the definition of a group, you are not usually part of that group. That statement is part of the definition of hippies. What you said would be like calling a yellow orange a banana. It just doesent fit. As far as free speech, I never said I would deny them the right to do whatever the hell they wanted.... as long as it wasnt breaking any laws, which in this case they were, according to that news story they attacked a sheriff, which is a law in my book, and illegal even if you are a hippie.

 

Ok well the first thing is that there is not proof that they attacked the officer. Get you facts straight. There are multiple eyewitnesses who claim to have seen the officer breaking the window so that he could get inside their house.

 

 

 

And with the whole hippy thing they were not necessarily hippies I have seen their picture etc and if your going along the biased way of looking at hippies and how they wear tie-die etc they were most certainly not.

 

 

Refresh me again to where I said all hippies where tie-dye shirts

 

Thats not what I said, you went on wikipedia and got the definition of hippy and claimed that they were hippies because of what they did. That is being biased. I was looking at your point of view (one of the many prejudgments of hippies is that they wear tie-die) and simply saying that with your biased way of looking at things it couldn't be true.

 

 

 

 

 

Also I guess your implying that anyone who choses to act out against the government is a hippy?

 

 

 

In this case, yes. If you want to change something, there is much better ways then deliberately annoying your neighbors and attacking the police.

 

Dude... are you kidding me. Everyone who acts out against the government is a hippy... Ever heard of the word activist.. The are hundreds of millions of people in the world who act out against the government in some way. Are you saying that they are all hippies?

[llcoolguy972]

[hide]

Disgusting. People have a right to be disgusted with their country. These people have good right. Its a stupid piece of cloth. Do what you please with it. The Officer should be charged with breaking and entering. Kinda ridiculous how the wife called 911. You're calling the problem to fix the problem, ya know... this is a police state, you really think you are going to be saved? Give me a Break. Free Speech is spat upon when things like this happen, even if the couple were to be cited, that isn't fair... you have to go through the court system, just for wanting to publicize this countries problems? This would most likely incur several missed days of work, fines, court fees, all the other BS that united states courts come along with. I fly a flag upside down in my window, and have yet to have any problems. I hope this kind of stuff doesn't happen to me.

 

 

 

Since when does defiling a flag constitute as "speech". Your right to free speech ends when you use it to break another law. The person in question here broke a Law; in doing so they forfeit their right to free speech. Why do you think people can sue for libel and slander? Because free speech doesn't mean you can say and express whatever the hell you want; there are conditions attached. You are angry at a police officer for upholding a law; I don't see how you can expect the officer to uphold two contradictory laws (free speech and defiling a flag) simultaneously; it's impossible.

 

 

 

It's freedom of expression, and their rights were violated.

 

 

 

You don't understand; freedom of expression only holds as long as other laws aren't being broken. I can't say "oh, don't arrest me for murder officer, it's just how I express my views!", because I am breaking another law; do not murder. Just like you cannot say "don't arrest me for defiling a flag officer, it's just how I express my views!", because I am breaking another law.

[/hide]

 

 

 

The only reason it's against the law to "defile a flag" is so when there are protesters, they can be arrested for "breaking" a law. But, tell me, how is this not breaking the law? Why aren't these people arrested for "defiling the flag"? Because they weren't protesting, that's why.

[PaperClipsYaaaar]

Disgusting. People have a right to be disgusted with their country. These people have good right. Its a stupid piece of cloth. Do what you please with it. The Officer should be charged with breaking and entering. Kinda ridiculous how the wife called 911. You're calling the problem to fix the problem, ya know... this is a police state, you really think you are going to be saved? Give me a Break. Free Speech is spat upon when things like this happen, even if the couple were to be cited, that isn't fair... you have to go through the court system, just for wanting to publicize this countries problems? This would most likely incur several missed days of work, fines, court fees, all the other BS that united states courts come along with. I fly a flag upside down in my window, and have yet to have any problems. I hope this kind of stuff doesn't happen to me.

 

 

 

Since when does defiling a flag constitute as "speech". Your right to free speech ends when you use it to break another law. The person in question here broke a Law; in doing so they forfeit their right to free speech. Why do you think people can sue for libel and slander? Because free speech doesn't mean you can say and express whatever the hell you want; there are conditions attached. You are angry at a police officer for upholding a law; I don't see how you can expect the officer to uphold two contradictory laws (free speech and defiling a flag) simultaneously; it's impossible.

 

 

 

It's freedom of expression, and their rights were violated.

 

 

 

You don't understand; freedom of expression only holds as long as other laws aren't being broken. I can't say "oh, don't arrest me for murder officer, it's just how I express my views!", because I am breaking another law; do not murder. Just like you cannot say "don't arrest me for defiling a flag officer, it's just how I express my views!", because I am breaking another law.

 

Murder is harmful but flag burning is not. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?