Homosexuality: Right or Wrong?

[michel555555]

Sorry for not reading 105 pages of well-constructed arguments, and butting in, but I'm just wondering: Has anyone made the comparison of segregation during the 1900's to gay discrimination today? It's a really good comparison. Being homosexual myself, I support homosexual marriage and all rights. I know it's not a choice. I went through realizing it. And accepting it. Trust me, I didn't wake up one morning during 6th grade and say, "Hmmm.... I feel like being different. I'll be homosexual for the rest of my life!!" And, from what I have read so far, anyone saying that it's a choice has not had a good argument yet...

 

 

 

Also, anyone citing the Bible: Give me a direct quote, and the location of this quote.

 

 

 

I imagine it has to have come up, the problem it always runs into is it immediately shifts into an argument over whether homosexuality is inherent or a choice(people say you cant stop being black).

 

 

 

Just for the fun of it ill dig up the bible quotes(Im for gay marriage, just for fun)

 

 

 

leviticus chap 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

 

 

 

Thats the main one, the bible text I found apparently doesnt have the term homosexual in it so I cant find more without some deep work.

 

 

 

i believe in a kind and loving god. he never mentions anything about girl on girl :thumbsup:

[mmmcannibalism]

i believe in a kind and loving god. he never mentions anything about girl on girl

 

 

 

-.- :shock: :lol:

 

 

 

I was going to make a smart remark, but your actually right.

[Kiriyama]

i believe in a kind and loving god. he never mentions anything about girl on girl

 

 

 

-.- :shock: :lol:

 

 

 

I was going to make a smart remark, but your actually right.

 

 

 

I'll do it.

 

 

 

With that remark, we can pretty much assume God is male.

 

 

 

And like all males, he clearly doesn't mind girl on girl.

[Fwut]

 

I don't really like this argument.

 

 

 

"Wow. Several famous and intelligent people were gay. Thass' cool. That makes it all the more "normal" and "acceptable"

 

 

 

I know you are just trying to explain etcetera but I really don't think it is appropriate in any kind of situation.

 

 

 

I would supply you with a bad analogy but I think you can fill in the blanks.

 

 

 

This has nothing to do with homosexuality, I'm arguing the validity of this reasoning.

 

 

 

I will admit to you that I too questioned the validity of this argument whilst writing it, however I think you'll find my other points sufficent enough to argue with.

 

 

 

I think what I was trying to was show that not all of the gay community are anonoymous, gross, "unnatural" people.

 

 

 

I guess what I wanted to do was give the gays in my argument a face, rather than leave whoever you think of when you think of gays.

 

 

 

A fair argument on your behalf. I think that part of my arguement had a lot less structure than the rest. I left too much room.

 

 

 

However, I'd prefer you to answer my entire argument in a rebuttle rather than nitpicking at things that you think you'll win.

 

 

 

I await for your response.

[Alg]

^

 

It may just be that people don't know any homosexuals closely enough to know better

[Guest]

[hide=]

"You are not the same"

 

 

 

Implies difference, segregation, and marginalization. Like saying -

 

 

 

"Hello neighbor, let's have dinner together. Even though you're a different skin colour to me -- we'll make it appear normal"

 

 

 

Making it appear normal is saying it wasn't acceptable in the first place.

 

 

 

"They will respect that"

 

 

 

Yet another bad explanation; you see it's like a bank balance. You give put some in, you take some out. By acknowledging that they are homosexual and you are creating a "payment deferred" or "bounced check". Saying -- I've got money, but Im sure as hell not paying you. Look man, I know youre gay. I dont have a problem with that. But just dont come near me. Yo respekt my dawg Then you would go to big up yaself because you handled that situation oh so tactfully-

 

 

 

Will not bother you

 

 

 

Now you see, gay people are something to be feared. Just be as liberal minded as you can and stay at least 10 meters away. ;)

 

 

 

Also, read above.

 

 

 

Im not saying I disagree with you. In fact I would have given exactly the same answers as you. Im just trying to expose the underlying prejudice that all our words carry. We can never be fully appreciative or accepting of anything even in a moderate society with a tolerant mindset.

 

 

 

I won't get into all the various clichés and platitudes of buzzwords such as "fear, society, mindset, hostility, contempt -- blah blah blah" You've all heard them before.

 

 

 

So yeah. :|

 

 

 

Who who overkill there ;) let me explain

 

 

 

I see them as living creatures, just as anything else on the planet

 

I see them as human beings, which they are

 

I even consider some of them my friends since I know them so I do treat them with the same respect as anyone else.

 

 

 

I am not saying it wasn't normal in the first place, though people have made it look that way. If you look in the animal kingdom (yeh sorry I am a veterinarian so I know more about animals than humans).

 

 

 

I am sorried I wasn't clear on that first point, I ment to say; we have not the same sexual preference (sorry, I was sleepy then, but should have been mroe carefull with my words).

 

 

 

however I do not fear any of them might fall in love with me, but I would like them to know that I only love girls on the forehand. They can come close to me as I would let any other man get to me. I even been to a gay party in my country - where I must say as a non-homosexual person you are also welcome - and yes I was with my girlfriend. But I don't like to make out with other man for that matters, and there comes the tricky part. I know in a drunk mood I can kiss a girl and I know drunk man that like man in their drunk mood could come onto me. But then I want them also to respect my borders. If you let them know it before doing stupid things, there is really no problem.

 

 

 

i know you are trying to prove a good point and you [bleep] me right in the face with it :P and I know you just have to be carefull with words.

 

 

 

Ok. Cool. I see know what you are trying to say.

 

 

 

Can I point out something else ?

 

 

 

[hide=]I see them as living creatures, just as anything else on the planet[/hide]

 

 

 

What you got to realize Adrenal is that while everyone is different doesn't mean we want it separated. If you want them to be "normal" we're going to go down a road most people hate and call Political Correctness, like Affirmative Action.

 

 

 

What we all need to realize is that yes, we are ALL different. But that difference isn't something of negative value. We strive so hard to have everybody normal when all we need to do is just accept the fact that they are different and be honorable.

 

Different =/= Bad

 

 

 

Yes. That's what I was saying.

 

Im not saying I disagree with you. In fact I would have given exactly the same answers as you. Im just trying to expose the underlying prejudice that all our words carry. We can never be fully appreciative or accepting of anything even in a moderate society with a tolerant mindset.

 

 

 

But, I can see where you are coming from.

 

[/hide]

 

 

 

I see every animal or human as living creatures (We are all animals in my concern :P ) but I think that suits another topic better ;)

[Fwut]

^

 

It may just be that people don't know any homosexuals closely enough to know better

 

 

 

Brilliant point. Can't believe I over looked it myself.

 

 

 

To any of you who read up on Harvey Milk: he had the brilliant idea of asking all of his followers to tell their friends, family, anyone who didn't know them for who they were to tell them.

 

 

 

I have several homosexual friends, and before they told me, I didn't have a clue. One of them even had a girlfriend so he could hide his true self from his peers.

[Shinjula]

Also, anyone citing the Bible: Give me a direct quote, and the location of this quote.

 

I believe the one you actually need is from Corinthians

 

 

 

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (NIV, 1st Corinthians 6:9-11)

 

 

 

Its one of the letters that Paul sent. And here he is in Romans

 

 

 

They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-- who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. (NIV, Romans 1:25-27)

 

 

 

From reading the bible it seems to me the Paul was out and out a homophobe, hes got quite a bee in his bonnet about alsorts of things and so personally I wouldnt trust him further than I could spit him. I'm sure Jesus had to spend an awful lot of time calming him down at parties. 95% of the things people use to outcast homosexuals in the bible are bogus, the stuff in leviticus is all ignorable because when Jesus arrived on the scene that brought about a new compact with god, every other law was over turned.

 

 

 

Jesus himself never mentioned homosexuality although he did condemn sexual immorality in Mark

 

What comes out of you is what defiles you. For from within, out of your hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile you. (TNIV, Mark 7:20-23)

 

 

 

In fact most of the old testament prohibitions on homosexuality are of dubious origin anyway, many times what crops up in early english translations of the bible are translations of the word for child prostitute, prostitute, and several times homosexual is used to refer to someone who sleeps with a man whilst married to a woman.

 

 

 

But on the other hand Paul is kinda quite clear, if you wish to believe that every word in the bible is precisely true and that all the dicsiples spoke only the word of god, then sure with that view homosexuality would be wrong, of course then I would have to ask, with that view point, how come jesus had to teach the disciples anything, if whatever came out of the mouths was gods word?

[mmmcannibalism]

They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-- who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. (NIV, Romans 1:25-27)

 

 

 

Anyone else see the logical flaw in this verse? I might be reading wrong but Id like to see if anyone notices it before I say.

[Rien]

They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-- who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. (NIV, Romans 1:25-27)

 

 

 

Anyone else see the logical flaw in this verse? I might be reading wrong but Id like to see if anyone notices it before I say.

Hmm, that is odd. :lol:

 

 

 

I'm assuming you meant the part where the people turned away from God, and so he caused for them all to become homosexual as punishment, only to punish them once more for committing homosexual acts after having "[given] them over to shameful lusts" in the first place.

[mmmcannibalism]

They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-- who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. (NIV, Romans 1:25-27)

 

 

 

Anyone else see the logical flaw in this verse? I might be reading wrong but Id like to see if anyone notices it before I say.

Hmm, that is odd. :lol:

 

 

 

I'm assuming you meant the part where the people turned away from God, and so he caused for them all to become homosexual as punishment, only to punish them once more for committing homosexual acts after having "[given] them over to shameful lusts" in the first place.

 

 

 

Yep, glad to see im not crazy.

[Serpent Eye]

I realize that this contributes nothing to the, er, discussion here, but wasn't this topic locked a while ago? O_o

[Plugpoint]

^

 

It may just be that people don't know any homosexuals closely enough to know better

 

Shame some people are too narrow-minded to even give homosexuals a chance to be their friend.

 

I'm friends with more gay guys than straight and I'm so used to it that it always shocks me when people are homophobic lol D:

[gummibear95]

i dont thinks that Homosexuality is right or wrong, that it is just a different way of living, and people who are homo, just have a different mindset than the rest of us.

 

 

 

its just a monority, and nothing more,

 

 

 

(but from my mind set, i find it faintly disturbing )

[Zierro]

^

 

It may just be that people don't know any homosexuals closely enough to know better

 

Shame some people are too narrow-minded to even give homosexuals a chance to be their friend.

 

I'm friends with more gay guys than straight and I'm so used to it that it always shocks me when people are homophobic lol D:

 

 

 

They are guys, meaning you don't have to worry about them hitting on you. I got hit on by two gay guys before. Not something I would want to go through again.

[Kiriyama]

Really Zierro, you are full of yourself.

 

 

 

Not every homosexual male wants you. A simple response of "Thank you for the compliment, however, I am not gay." would be enough to stop them.

 

 

 

Plus, if you had a homosexual friend, then chances are, they know of your sexuality, and will not do anything.

 

 

 

Really, responses like yours show one of two things.

 

 

 

You are either:

 

 

 

A) Homophobic

 

 

 

or

 

 

 

B) Insecure in your own sexuality.

[Zierro]

Stop making assumptions about my character. A gay guy flat out told me he liked me. How is that being full of myself? Another one played with my hair. I guess I'm just being optimistic, right?

 

 

 

I never said every gay guy wants me - I only pointed out that some did and I don't want it to happen again. It's not just gays though. I would be pretty turned off if a 80-year-old female hit on me too. Maybe this suggests I'm insecure about my age, huh? So yeah, stop making yourself look like an idiot. Just because I think anime is gay doesn't mean to follow me around and disagree with me on everything. :) That's very childish and sad.

[Kiriyama]

Actually, I follow this thread a lot, and have responded in a similar fashion to others who have said the same.

 

 

 

The thing is, even though many males do not want other guys to hit on them, you can deal with it when it happens.

 

 

 

Really, dealing with it is a simple "Please stop, I am not gay." Which should stop the person doing it again.

[Zierro]

Actually, I follow this thread a lot, and have responded in a similar fashion to others who have said the same.

 

 

 

And I have too. But there's a world of difference between saying you got hit on by someone gay before and saying that all gays like you.

 

 

 

The thing is, even though many males do not want other guys to hit on them, you can deal with it when it happens.

 

 

 

I know that... All I was saying was that I'd rather it not happen again. Should I want it to happen again? Because by telling me I'm full of myself, homophobic, and insecure about my sexuality just because I didn't like getting hit on by gay people, it sure seems like it.

 

 

 

That's fine, but answer me this. How do you feel about me not liking it if an 80-year-old woman hit on me? What am I then? Agephobic?

[Kiriyama]

I'd be more worried if you considered that having an 80 year old hit on you more normal. Kind of a stupid arguement too, since there is a world of difference between a man who considers you might be gay, so takes the first step, and an 80 year old woman who hits on you.

[Zierro]

I'd be more worried if you considered that having an 80 year old hit on you more normal. Kind of a stupid arguement too, since there is a world of difference between a man who considers you might be gay, so takes the first step, and an 80 year old woman who hits on you.

 

 

 

Yes, there is a difference, but the point is that I am not personally interested in either of them, so why should I be expected to want it to happen again? If that example isn't good enough, make her 40 years old then. I'm still less than half her age but relationships like that do exist. It's not like I have any resentment towards the woman or the gay person - I just don't feel comfortable if they were to hit on me.

 

 

 

Some lesbians don't like it when straight guys ask them out. What's the difference? They're allowed to not like it, but I'm not?

[i_love_burritos]

They are guys, meaning you don't have to worry about them hitting on you. I got hit on by two gay guys before.

 

 

 

Really Zierro, you are full of yourself.

 

 

 

Woah, woah. Guys calm down. If it's any consolation I haven't been hit on by anyone before.

[Skull]

They are guys, meaning you don't have to worry about them hitting on you. I got hit on by two gay guys before.

 

 

 

Really Zierro, you are full of yourself.

 

 

 

Woah, woah. Guys calm down. If it's any consolation I haven't been hit on by anyone before.

 

Would it be funny or awkward for me to hit on you right now?

[Kiriyama]

I'd be more worried if you considered that having an 80 year old hit on you more normal. Kind of a stupid arguement too, since there is a world of difference between a man who considers you might be gay, so takes the first step, and an 80 year old woman who hits on you.

 

 

 

Yes, there is a difference, but the point is that I am not personally interested in either of them, so why should I be expected to want it to happen again? If that example isn't good enough, make her 40 years old then. I'm still less than half her age but relationships like that do exist. It's not like I have any resentment towards the woman or the gay person - I just don't feel comfortable if they were to hit on me.

 

 

 

Some lesbians don't like it when straight guys ask them out. What's the difference? They're allowed to not like it, but I'm not?

 

 

 

To be honest, I think lesbians have more of a point, considering some guys who just hope they are actually bi.

 

 

 

Though really, rather than claim how much it annoys you, it's easier to politely decline them.

[Zierro]

Though really, rather than claim how much it annoys you, it's easier to politely decline them.

 

 

 

I know and I already did. How is that relevant though? I got hit on by gay guys, I told them I wasn't interested, and then I said it bothered me on here. Am I like... not allowed to bring that up on the forums or something?