Homosexuality: Right or Wrong?

[sphinxor86]

Thanks pirate_felix :)

 

 

 

Oh and for reference, I was brought up Catholic. And now am an Atheist. Homosexuality and science are two major reasons for renouncing my religion (I'm also a trained Physicist with a degree in Theoretical Physics).

[Pirate_Felix]

Thanks pirate_felix :)

 

 

 

Oh and for reference, I was brought up Catholic. And now am an Atheist. Homosexuality and science are two major reasons for renouncing my religion (I'm also a trained Physicist with a degree in Theoretical Physics).

 

Im not a gay myself so maybe you can answer this question better: Can the community affect your sexual preferences? Making you straight or gay.

[sphinxor86]

The good old nature vs nurture debate.

 

 

 

I honestly think that it has a very strong genetic influence.... I knew since around 9 years old, don't ask me how, I just did. (Am 23 now).

 

 

 

And thinking back to my childhood, I can pinpoint many qualities/events as 'evidence' that I was gay even at a younger age than 9.

 

 

 

I don't think I was made gay by external factors, the main reason being that if that were possible, it could feasibly be undone by appropriate countermeasures, and I don't think it can.

 

 

 

There have been studies attempting to pinpoint physical differences between homosexual and heterosexual men, and apparently there are some (all on average of course):

 

Gay men are more likely to have their hair patterns swirling in the opposite direction to straight men, and (apparently) gay men are more likely to have larger penises than straight men.

 

 

 

I don't know how true that is, but I certainly like the sound of it! :lol:

[Guest]

I think it's not genetic, genetics means it's heredity and that means one of the parents at least should carry a gene that would make people attracted to it's same gender.

 

 

 

I think there is absolutely no difference between me and a gay person other than my sexual preference. There is nothing wrong with their genes or with their head, they just fell in love with the same gender.

[Fwut]

OK, I'm going to try and debunk all of the anti-homosexuality arguments here.

 

 

 

Not natural:

 

 

 

One of the most common and ludicrous arguments is that homosexuality is unnatural.

 

 

 

Wrong. If something can be found all over nature, from insects to mammals, it's natural. Also, homosexuality has been documented all over history. But something else that is "Natural" is murder. It is found all over nature, so therefore it's right?

 

 

 

Also, it's not natural for humans to fly or sail, however no-one objects to boats or air planes, right?

 

 

 

The point I am making here is that:

 

Natural doesn't=Right

 

Un-Natural doesn't=Wrong.

 

 

 

A choice:

 

 

 

Another one of the arguments these homophobic bigots throw at us is that homosexuality is a choice.

 

 

 

No, it's not a choice. Why? Because that's like me waking up one day and saying "You know what? I think I'll screw dudes from now on. Because I want to be discriminated against. Because I want to be deprived of my civil rights. Because I want to be hated by homophobs."

 

 

 

Also, there is no "gay gene" found as of yet, but there also is no heterosexual gene found, or bisexual gene for that matter.

 

 

 

Extra rights exclusively for them:

 

Is isn't true, and you know it. Let's talk about marriage. If gays "got extra rights" to marry one another, you would be able to marry the same sex too. You have the same rights as them, it would just be your choice if you wanted to marry a man or a woman.

 

 

 

God:

 

If you want to have a bible debate with me I just don't want it. As a Catholic turned atheist I know enough about the Bible to hold my own ground. If the Bible condemns homosexuality, and, assuming now that everything the Bible says is right, and true, therefore we must follow Leviticus 20:13:

 

"If a man has sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman, the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves."

 

 

 

Yes, a brutal death for another human being, just for the fact that their lover is the same sex as them.

 

 

 

Do you find this just?

 

 

 

However, lets speak about what the bible allows, namely incest.

 

Let's give our father wine to drink. Then we'll go to bed with him so that we'll be able to preserve our family line through our father."

 

 

 

Being Gay is wrong. Getting your father drunk to have sex with him is AOK! :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

Gay people can't have babies:

 

And how is this a problem? Last time I checked, there were nearly 7 billion people on this planet, and going on 11 Billion by 2050.

 

 

 

And if you won't let gay people marry, how about infertile couples? Or couples who don't want babies?

 

 

 

 

 

Contradicting the definition on marriage:

 

So what? Just change the definition. It has been done before and we can do it again.

 

 

 

 

 

What's next?:

 

Some bible thumpers may argue that if we allow homosexuality, there's going to be an endless list of what will happen next. Namely bestiality, paedophilia ect.

 

 

 

Gay marriage is a consensual choice. It doesn't hurt anyone and it's a choice between two adults as to what they're doing. Bestiality and paedophilia are not consensual acts, where both parties can't agree by their own free will, so therefore they're a long way of the list of stuff to be legalised.

 

 

 

So, allow me to just paste this from my earlier argument:

 

A lot of our great minds were homosexual. Leonardo, Tchaikovsky, Wilde, Barons Corvo and von Gloeden, Robin Maugham, Worsley, "an Englishman", Jean Genet, Cavafy, Montherlant, Roger Peyrefitte, Mary Renault, Michael Campbell, Michael Davies, Angus Stewart, Gore Vidal, John Rechy, William Burroughs, to name but a few. All ultimatly doomed. But they were excellent people.

 

 

 

And allow me to go back to sleep.

[Guest]

Fwut that was brilliant :) good to see that someone thinks the same :)

[Pirate_Felix]

and (apparently) gay men are more likely to have larger penises than straight men.

 

 

 

I don't know how true that is, but I certainly like the sound of it! :lol:

 

D:

 

 

 

And truly well said by Fwut

[Fwut]

Did I kill the topic?

[Fwut]

Did I kill the topic?

 

No, you won the topic with a flawless victory.

 

 

 

Oh.

 

 

 

Then allow me to do some overkill.

 

 

 

I enjoy looking through old newspapers of my fathers, and while I was doing it today I came across an interesting article on the assault of a homosexual male in my neighbouring county.

 

 

 

A man was walking home on his own one day, a winter day, when he was confronted with 3 men blocking his path. He was then shoved to the ground and stabbed as one witness hid in nearby trees in horror. The men proceeded to kick him, wounding him, breaking bones, whilst shouting homophobic slurs at him. The last words this man heard were "Die, die you fat homo f**got c**t, die." before they ran off. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

 

 

 

Totally just, isn't it, homophobs? This happened 5 years ago.

 

 

 

EDIT: a few stars so I can show you what they said to this guy. Random bleeps don't have the same effect on you when reading.

[3rkid]

People like homophobes and the Westboro Baptist Church confuse me.

 

 

 

They hate on homosexuals because of religion... Now if they're right and there is a God, do you think he/she/it would allow them into an eternal afterlife portrayed as heaven? If there isn't a God, then they'll just spend eternity in nothingness like the rest of us, if there is one, then they'll probably be spending eternity in whatever Hell could be...

 

 

 

So those religious fanatics like the WBC and the guys in the above post are in a lose lose situation.

 

 

 

To sum up a small post: They're [developmentally delayed]ed.

[guss]

I hate to break it to you but some people do eat monkeys.

 

Mainly just monkey brains though.

 

 

 

Indiana Jones - Temple of Doom, HEHE

[guss]

Did I kill the topic?

 

No, you won the topic with a flawless victory.

 

 

 

 

 

Best post on this thread!

 

 

 

 

 

Wait was that just 31 post!???!

 

 

 

Also stuff like showing skin wasn't acceptable, until recently (though I don't always agree with the lack of shorts people wear...)!

[guss]

As a gay man, I think homosexuality is neither right nor wrong, it just is.

 

 

 

There's nothing wrong with two men (or two women) who are attracted to one another, and are mutually consenting, to express it through sex. There isn't anything "right" about it either. Just like there's nothing "right" with a man and a woman expressing themselves in the same way.

 

 

 

So long as its safe, and not in public! :lol:

 

 

 

So it might not be what you're used to, and yes its not the convention of the majority of the general public, but that doesn't mean anything, the same could be said for many other aspects of human behaviour.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and before someone starts quoting biblical dogma at me, nowhere in the bible does it say homosexuality is wrong, if you read it carefully, it talks about homosexual rape. Which of course is completely different because one of the parties is NOT consenting. And anyway, in the New Testament Jesus reaches out to and makes friends with prostitutes, tax collectors, and other members of the societal 'underclass' including homosexuals. There is a reference somewhere to a man with a slave, and the term they use in describing this slave, is just like the male equivalent of 'concubine' (essentially a sex slave).

 

 

 

I agree, I love your statement about public!! Wright more, because our generation will be the people to change the future!

[Fwut]

Did I kill the topic?

 

No, you won the topic with a flawless victory.

 

 

 

 

 

Best post on this thread!

 

 

 

 

 

Wait was that just 31 post!???!

 

 

 

Also stuff like showing skin wasn't acceptable, until recently (though I don't always agree with the lack of shorts people wear...)!

 

 

 

Y' see? Post counts are meaningless. Suggestions such as this:

 

I think there needs to be a requirement of at least 100 posts on TIF before entering this thread.

 

 

 

Too many

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are meaningless, and you could be alienating out people with a genuinely good post or point to make.

[Howlin0001]

Nowhere in the bible does it say homosexuality is wrong, if you read it carefully, it talks about homosexual rape. Which of course is completely different because one of the parties is NOT consenting. And anyway, in the New Testament Jesus reaches out to and makes friends with prostitutes, tax collectors, and other members of the societal 'underclass' including homosexuals. There is a reference somewhere to a man with a slave, and the term they use in describing this slave, is just like the male equivalent of 'concubine' (essentially a sex slave).

 

 

 

 

 

Lev. 18:22, "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

 

 

 

Lev. 20:13, "'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

 

 

 

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

 

 

 

Rom. 1:26-28, "26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

 

 

 

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done."

 

 

 

 

Seems like there was something about it in the bible....

[Fwut]

Seems like there was something about it in the bible....

 

 

 

And? The Bible does not under any circumstances have to dictate every single aspect of your life, whether it be major, such as your view on brutally killing homosexuals or minuscule ones. Make your own opinions, you do not have to be part of the flock. "Sheep" of the bible.

 

 

 

Besides, the Bible's maybe a tad slightly out of date, now. Maybe 2000 years ago population was a problem, but now it isn't.

[Fwut]

Besides, the Bible's maybe a tad slightly out of date, now. Maybe 2000 years ago population was a problem, but now it isn't.

 

ROFLWUT?

 

 

 

Population (if you mean world population) has never been a bigger problem.

 

 

 

If that's the case then why was the Bible against it... #-o

 

 

 

Maybe in the area the people wrote the Bible in, population was a problem.

[Fwut]

Besides, the Bible's maybe a tad slightly out of date, now. Maybe 2000 years ago population was a problem, but now it isn't.

 

ROFLWUT?

 

 

 

Population (if you mean world population) has never been a bigger problem.

 

 

 

If that's the case then why was the Bible against it... #-o

 

 

 

Maybe in the area the people wrote the Bible in, population was a problem.

 

No, no, I meant it is now, what with urban sprawl taking over the world. Back then it was probably a problem in cities, but theoretically 90% of the world was uninhabited.

 

 

 

Ah, I see what you mean now.

 

 

 

What I meant was that there was probably very few people in the world back then and since then our numbers have soared.

 

 

 

But yes, it was come to the point where overpopulation is a problem in a way.

[Howlin0001]

Seems like there was something about it in the bible....

 

 

 

And? The Bible does not under any circumstances have to dictate every single aspect of your life, whether it be major, such as your view on brutally killing homosexuals or minuscule ones. Make your own opinions, you do not have to be part of the flock. "Sheep" of the bible.

 

 

 

Besides, the Bible's maybe a tad slightly out of date, now. Maybe 2000 years ago population was a problem, but now it isn't.

 

 

 

I never said anything about that being my view did I?

 

Sphinxor86 said

 

Nowhere in the bible does it say homosexuality is wrong

and I was responding to that.

 

 

 

(Btw I have nothing against homosexuals.)

[ThurinEthir]

I'm not saying that homosexuality is wrong (quite the opposite, really), but I'll make my arguments for why the Bible does not dictate homosexuality as wrong for us today.

 

 

 

Lev. 18:22, "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

 

 

 

Lev. 20:13, "'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

 

 

A page or two back, someone posted one of these. Leviticus really was meant for the Israelites as they were entering the Promised Land. Not for us, in modern day America or wherever you live.

 

 

 

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

 

About 30 (?) pages ago, this was brought up. The phrase "homosexual offenders" might not mean homosexuality is wrong. It could mean something like "gay rape", which I hope we can agree is wrong. I interpret it with the "homosexual" describing the "offenders", not the "offending" describing the "homosexuals."

 

 

 

 

 

Rom. 1:26-28, "26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

 

 

 

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done."

 

 

Same as the last one, basically. Indecent acts could mean rape, or over-the-top sex. (Since, you know, the Bible also teaches about sex and it's purposes...) Though it does imply that homosexuality is unnatural, that doesn't necessarily mean homosexuality is wrong.

 

 

 

It's all down to the interpretation. Of course people interpret these passages as "HOMOSEXUALITY IS WRONG AND GAYS SHOULD BE KILLED." But that's not what it definitely says.

[3rkid]

Did I kill the topic?

 

No, you won the topic with a flawless victory.

 

 

 

 

 

Best post on this thread!

 

 

 

 

 

Wait was that just 31 post!???!

 

 

 

Also stuff like showing skin wasn't acceptable, until recently (though I don't always agree with the lack of shorts people wear...)!

 

 

 

Y' see? Post counts are meaningless. Suggestions such as this:

 

I think there needs to be a requirement of at least 100 posts on TIF before entering this thread.

 

 

 

Too many

 

 

 

[hide=The funny troll image][/hide]

 

 

 

Are meaningless, and you could be alienating out people with a genuinely good post or point to make.

 

 

 

I said that because of posts like these:

 

 

 

You can tell homosexuality is wrong because of the way females are created. If guys were made to "Do It" with other guys then there would be no point in giving women well um...a certain thing. :lol: The two "Things" are made for eachother. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

 

I have my reasons and maybe I am homophobic, but meh, it doesn't bother me. I've been raised anti-homo and that's how I'll continue to carry on with my life.

 

 

 

If someone can show me proof that two men can NATURALLY produce a child, then I'll start showing some respect to gay people.

 

 

 

My personal opinion is that its wrong

 

As a Muslim (no im not a terrorist -.- ) my beliefs tell me its wrong so thats jus what i follow

 

But i know many homosexuals and i get on fine with them

 

 

 

Right. I doubt choice 3 is true. Its a choice, and a bad one. You could get HIV/AIDS if you... you know. Two guys :-X :ohnoes:

[Omar]

That's not because those people had low post counts, it'd because they're stupid.

[3rkid]

That's not because those people had low post counts, it'd because they're stupid.

 

 

 

People with low post counts are much more likely to be trolls (if they're in Off-topic). And you do not want trolls on these kinds of topics (homosexuality related). They just don't mix.

[Alg]

That's not because those people had low post counts, it'd because they're stupid.

 

 

 

People with low post counts are much more likely to be trolls (if they're in Off-topic). And you do not want trolls on these kinds of topics (homosexuality related). They just don't mix.

 

There is a difference between trolling and ignorance though

[sandycat0]

Nowhere in the bible does it say homosexuality is wrong, if you read it carefully, it talks about homosexual rape. Which of course is completely different because one of the parties is NOT consenting. And anyway, in the New Testament Jesus reaches out to and makes friends with prostitutes, tax collectors, and other members of the societal 'underclass' including homosexuals. There is a reference somewhere to a man with a slave, and the term they use in describing this slave, is just like the male equivalent of 'concubine' (essentially a sex slave).

 

 

 

 

 

Lev. 18:22, "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

 

 

 

Lev. 20:13, "'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

 

 

 

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

 

 

 

Rom. 1:26-28, "26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

 

 

 

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done."

 

 

 

 

Seems like there was something about it in the bible....

 

leviticus is optional, and the other ones arent actually saying homosexuality is a sin, but that being sexually immoral is.

 

The Rom 1:26-28 part seems like its about homosexuality, but if i remember right it was actually about sodomy and polygamy