Is it really a problem? (MP3 piracy)

[warri0r45]

I can definately go with the youtube sentiment for checking out artists. Myspace is a pretty killer place to check out a bands music too IMO. In fact looking through myspace pages is exactly what led me to buy:

 

 

 

Meshuggah's 'Catch 33'

 

Ion Dissonance's 'Minus the Herd'

 

A Life Once Lost's 'Hunter'

 

 

 

Youtube no doubt led me to by:

 

 

 

Bill Hicks' 'Rant in E'Minor'

 

Bill Hicks' 'Salvation: Live at Oxford, 1992'

 

 

 

No doubt said wesites will lead me to more purchases in the future.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Interestingly enough, I had to get rid of LimeWire after all the stuff I'd downloaded (most music, some film) came up as viruses during my security check. :anxious:

 

 

 

As for your comments about Independant bands, I disagree. If you actually go to MySpace or any decent music download site such as 7digital, you'd actually find from time to time they offer you a bootleg - a demo for that bands music. They also let you preview about a 30 second sample before buying the music. To actually buy the music for your own personal use costs me about 80p ($1.65 abouts). This is hardly damaging to Indie bands, when they had absolutely nothing except word of mouth and Indie magazines such as the NME. Considering bands can have a free (I think) account from MySpace to host their band, and then post a feed for their music onto that page for absolutely free, I think it's unfair to say this crackdown is doing Indie bands any real harm, and it's definitely more better now than it was 10 years ago for the Indie scene.

 

 

 

The fact is when you use these "file-sharing" software you do two things:

 

 

 

A) Most likely download a nice lovely virus. LimeWire Firewall didn't help me, nor did Avast! or the Windows firewalls working in conjuction with it.

 

B) Steal from those bands. If it was you in their position, I can't imagine you'd be condoning this "file-sharing" from there.

 

 

 

The only problem I have is that when you buy a single, it doesn't let you put them onto an MP3 player since it's protected. I can understand why they'd do that, but surely they can make a license that actually works on my player as well as my computer?

 

 

 

But for 80p, I can avoid the above two problems, and have a high-quality audio that's actually come straight from the band? I say that's a bargain.

[kelem_ryu]

Downloading music and buying an album are two different things two different experiences. I doubt i'd ever pay for a song i download, but i buy an album every now and then at the store. Neither my Mp3 nor my CD collections are big though.

 

 

 

Before the internet and before the CD, there were Music Casettes that got copied all the time. Obviously the music industry and the artists survied nevertheless.

 

 

 

To me stealing is when you take something away from somebody with the result that you now have the item in question and the previous owner doesn't have it anymore. Downloading is just making a copy, hence copyright infringment.

 

 

 

I have to make a comparsion to runescape. I saw somebody in Skeletal Chest and legs and offered him/her a pair of Skeletal gloves. He/she declined, but when i gave them to him/her for free, he/she seemed to be grateful and enjoyed them. From an artists point of view downloading music still shows appreciation. Buying the album or going to a concert are also displays of appreciation. Let's say if i were an artist, appreciation would mean very much to me and as long as i got enough money in the end to live a good life, i'd be fine (and wouldn't mind criminals, who steal my music... They do so, because they want to hear what i did.)

[DaN]

Stealing is when you take something from someone and they no longer have it.

 

 

 

Downloading is simply taking a copy of the file in question.

[BlueLancer]

Stealing is when you take something from someone and they no longer have it.

 

 

 

Downloading is simply taking a copy of the file in question.

 

 

 

Which is exactly why by legal definition 'downloading' MP3's isn't a persecutable offense in most countries of the world. A 'download' is just the file transfer of certain bytes from one location to another.

 

 

 

You can't 'download' a car for example. You can borrow it, but then your friend will no longer have it. If you borrow a MP3, both the artist, your friend, and you have the MP3. You just copied an amount of bytes.

 

 

 

I don't download much MP3's, and why should I lie about it and be hypocritical, I didn't pay. I got maybe 100-200 songs max. But guess what: Some of those songs were awesome so I bought a physical copy of the album they were on. Without a 'trial' version I'd never even touched an unknown album in a shop.

 

 

 

You can't own a song. You can just own the copyrights to it. Even without MP3's, people were recording songs off radio on audio cassettes, then copying those to their friends. Were they stealing? .. No, the song on the radio was free in the first place. Anyone tuning in could've heard it. They were just passing on their audio experience to their friends that weren't tuned in.

[Sir_Alex85]

For me a lot of times buying a CD is just a pain. I like to listen to a lot of bands that I can't find in local shops. I don't find my self really downloading as much lately though, really can't during school.

 

 

 

 

 

Most of the money the actual bands make at any rate is through concerts and other sales, not CD sales.

 

 

 

Yeah, for sure. That's a pain in the [wagon] when you can't find some groups.. The AB Sound by me (Canadian music store) doesn't stock Iced Earth or Death. Not even Blind Guardian. And alot of other groups. So it's annoying when you go there to look for something, and can't find it.

 

 

 

I should order off Amazon or something... Ever heard of a metal group called Grim Reaper? They were awesome, and only had 3 albums.. Amazon has their first two for like, five dollars together.

[hohto]

I personally find it really funny how people even now can still cry about their local store not having album X and justify their piracy that way. If you can't find an album from a trustable netstore, the album most likely isn't either worth even dowloading.

[Brandon_7]

BlueLancer summed it up very well. I already have most of the music I want anyway but if I really do like an artist, I'll buy the CD. I don't honestly consider downloading the mp3's all that big of a deal. :-k

[Achilleus]

I enjoy downloading from the dodgy sites which tell me its completely legal. Denial is good. :P

:XD:

 

 

 

LIMEWIRE FTW

[indy500fan]

So if I go get my friends CD and put the songs on my computer I'm stealing?

 

 

 

This is what also confuses me, and if that is the case, wouldn't borrowing a book off a friend, or even a magazine be illegal?

 

 

 

First to answer cyco's quote, no that is not stealing. That is copyright infringement. It is still illegal, it is not prosecuted as harshly though. That's why the MPAA an RIAA are propagandizing that copy movies/music is stealing, so they can get more out of it or something.

 

 

 

Now for Led's, your analogy doesn't work. If you borrow a book from a friend, the friend no longer has access to it. If you borrow a CD, your friend doesn't have access to it. If you borrow a CD and then copy the songs to your computer, then give the CD back without deleting the songs from your computer, you have committed copyright infringement, which is illegal.

 

 

 

A few people so far have explained it pretty well. Copying music is NOT stealing. It is still illegal and (from my subjective viewpoint) morally wrong.

[insane]

Stealing is when you take something from someone and they no longer have it.

 

 

 

Downloading is simply taking a copy of the file in question.

 

 

 

Who cares what you define stealing as, you're still ripping an artist off. Using a technical definition of stealing to justify your actions is pretty cowardly.

[Bubsa]

There are plenty of ways to expand and divulge your love for music without having to resort to theft. It's as simple as that.

[BlueLancer]

Stealing is when you take something from someone and they no longer have it.

 

 

 

Downloading is simply taking a copy of the file in question.

 

 

 

Who cares what you define stealing as, you're still ripping an artist off. Using a technical definition of stealing to justify your actions is pretty cowardly.

 

 

 

Are the millions of people, possibly including your parents, thieves too because they recorded audio cassettes from the radio back in the 1980's, copied them forward to their friends and they copied it onwards?

 

 

 

If you want to get technical, an artist isn't getting ripped off when you download an MP3. The label company loses out about $0.10 dollars, and they've already turned a huge profit before you downloaded that MP3.

 

 

 

Why is it ok to record songs off the radio but not off the internet?

[Tbfgraphx14]

If iTunes is able to get one song and sell it for millions, then why can't we get something. I still think they make enough money though. My friends iPod has over 4,000 songs and he bought every last one :-w

[insane]

Stealing is when you take something from someone and they no longer have it.

 

 

 

Downloading is simply taking a copy of the file in question.

 

 

 

Who cares what you define stealing as, you're still ripping an artist off. Using a technical definition of stealing to justify your actions is pretty cowardly.

 

 

 

Are the millions of people, possibly including your parents, thieves too because they recorded audio cassettes from the radio back in the 1980's, copied them forward to their friends and they copied it onwards?

 

 

 

When did I use the word thief? You're throwing an emotional term onto my parents to try and bolster your argument. In spite of that, I see no difference. The artist is still getting ripped off, no?

 

 

 

If you want to get technical, an artist isn't getting ripped off when you download an MP3.

 

 

 

If it takes the place of you buying a CD, then yes, the artist is getting ripped off. If you aren't willing to pay for intellectual property being sold, then I don't see how you can possibly claim to have the right to enjoy it.

 

 

 

And for the record, an artist typically makes around a dollar per CD sold.

 

[Source]

 

 

 

 

 

Why is it ok to record songs off the radio but not off the internet?

 

 

 

When did I say it was okay to record songs off the radio? Even if I did say it was okay, it's a false analogy. Artists choose to release songs onto radio airwaves; they don't choose to release their songs onto internet servers...

[assassin_696]

Why is it ok to record songs off the radio but not off the internet?

 

 

 

When did I say it was okay to record songs off the radio? Even if I did say it was okay, it's a false analogy. Artists choose to release songs onto radio airwaves; they don't choose to release their songs onto internet servers...

 

 

 

But artists don't choose to release their songs onto the radio to have them copied. It's still taking the place of a bought CD if you copy all your music off the radio, no? So the analogy still works, and highlights the problem with a blanket statement like yours.

[Nadril]

I personally find it really funny how people even now can still cry about their local store not having album X and justify their piracy that way. If you can't find an album from a trustable netstore, the album most likely isn't either worth even dowloading.

 

 

 

You obviously don't live in america mate. I can't even find bands such as mayhem or venom in local stores. A lot of bands that are worth listening to I can't find anywhere. :roll:

[DaN]

The truth is you can make far more money by sueing someone than you can selling a CD.

 

 

 

The RIAA put the price per song as $750 or something stupid like that.

 

 

 

 

 

When you download a song no one loses anything in fact being able to sample music encourages people to buy the CD.

 

 

 

If a consumer pays for music they shouldn't have rootkits installed on their systems or be unable to transfer that music to their ipod so why would they pay for a CD full of malware when I can send them a DRM free copy (I have 57GB of music)

[look_its_rob]

I do not think i have ever bought a cd in my entire life. i only d/l the songs. honestly, i don't feel like spending the money on music because i rather buy shoes. if i could get shoes for free and not music, it would be the other way around. I go to a bunch of shows so i guess the bands get money from me then. but then again if there was a way to get in free, i probably would.

 

 

 

 

 

i guess i just don't really care if the band makes the extra buck or not if it means i lose it=/

[insane]

Why is it ok to record songs off the radio but not off the internet?

 

 

 

When did I say it was okay to record songs off the radio? Even if I did say it was okay, it's a false analogy. Artists choose to release songs onto radio airwaves; they don't choose to release their songs onto internet servers...

 

 

 

But artists don't choose to release their songs onto the radio to have them copied. It's still taking the place of a bought CD if you copy all your music off the radio, no? So the analogy still works, and highlights the problem with a blanket statement like yours.

 

 

 

What's the problem with the blanket statement that I made?

 

Secondly, what is the blanket statement that I made?

 

Thirdly, I don't agree with the logic you used to attempt to piece back together BlueLancer's analogy. What kind of radio station plays all the songs from an album? Usually an album has just one single on the radio. These are songs that the artists put on their myspace accounts and such because they want that song out there to promote the album. The problem begins when people use the internet to steal the entire album and defeat the purpose of the artist's single radio song.

[kelem_ryu]

I say it again. If i were a musician, i would feel appreciation from people going to my concert, from people buying my albums and from people downloading my songs. As long as the money is okay at the end of the day, i'd be fine. Appreciation > Money

 

 

 

As a customer i don't care if there are peple out there who never buy a CD. I do sometimes, others do as well. Some may buy a T-shirt and some may go to a concert. All that adds up to something the musician can live off.

 

 

 

I do think that all this persecution and lobbying against file sharing comes from greedy peple, who don't ask themselves: "Do i have enough? but "Could i have more?", rather then from musicians who have to starve.

[cyco]

So if I go get my friends CD and put the songs on my computer I'm stealing?

 

 

 

This is what also confuses me, and if that is the case, wouldn't borrowing a book off a friend, or even a magazine be illegal?

 

 

 

First to answer cyco's quote, no that is not stealing. That is copyright infringement. It is still illegal, it is not prosecuted as harshly though. That's why the MPAA an RIAA are propagandizing that copy movies/music is stealing, so they can get more out of it or something.

 

 

 

Now for Led's, your analogy doesn't work. If you borrow a book from a friend, the friend no longer has access to it. If you borrow a CD, your friend doesn't have access to it. If you borrow a CD and then copy the songs to your computer, then give the CD back without deleting the songs from your computer, you have committed copyright infringement, which is illegal.

 

 

 

A few people so far have explained it pretty well. Copying music is NOT stealing. It is still illegal and (from my subjective viewpoint) morally wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah lol, forgot about that, works the same way as roms and iso's.

[hohto]

I personally find it really funny how people even now can still cry about their local store not having album X and justify their piracy that way. If you can't find an album from a trustable netstore, the album most likely isn't either worth even dowloading.

 

 

 

You obviously don't live in america mate. I can't even find bands such as mayhem or venom in local stores. A lot of bands that are worth listening to I can't find anywhere. :roll:

 

 

 

With that comment I mean internet stores. If you can't order it from the internet, it most likely isn't worth even downloading. Few exceptions of course are. Amazon for example has a lot of stuff from Mayhem and at least I trust Amazon more than Microsoft.

[Zonorhc]

I was under the impression that recording studios, rather than artists, are the ones who actually profit from CD sales.

 

 

 

I support my favoured artists by attending their performances and buying the T-shirts.

[assassin_696]

Why is it ok to record songs off the radio but not off the internet?

 

 

 

When did I say it was okay to record songs off the radio? Even if I did say it was okay, it's a false analogy. Artists choose to release songs onto radio airwaves; they don't choose to release their songs onto internet servers...

 

 

 

But artists don't choose to release their songs onto the radio to have them copied. It's still taking the place of a bought CD if you copy all your music off the radio, no? So the analogy still works, and highlights the problem with a blanket statement like yours.

 

 

 

What's the problem with the blanket statement that I made?

 

Secondly, what is the blanket statement that I made?

 

Thirdly, I don't agree with the logic you used to attempt to piece back together BlueLancer's analogy. What kind of radio station plays all the songs from an album? Usually an album has just one single on the radio. These are songs that the artists put on their myspace accounts and such because they want that song out there to promote the album. The problem begins when people use the internet to steal the entire album and defeat the purpose of the artist's single radio song.

 

 

 

Although you didn't make a blanket statement, you implied that every form of music copying, be it borrowing a friend's CD, recording stuff off the radio or downloading music was morally equivalent and equally wrong. Which I disagree with.

 

 

 

Granted, most radio stations don't play an album all the way through, but some certainly do, especially if it's an eagerly anticipated album they might have an "exclusive playing", with breaks yeah, but it's been done.

 

 

 

I said the analogy works because copying a song/single off a radio still in effect "replaces" the purchase of that physical single in a shop, which still counts as sales.