Words Can Kill (Mods, Please Lock)

[qeltar]

Pathetic. All around the world, there are people dying of starvation,AIDs and god knows what else. This girl kills herself because of the words of morons like those, while at the same time, there are hundreds of people suffering sexual abuse, or who have lost their families etc, those people are the ones who have a reason for suicide. (although imo, suicide is wrong) Look, it's the internet, like chess said, the little red x makes everything go away.

 

 

 

Once again, those of you who are hand-waving this issue away by effectively blaming the victim do not understand what depression does.

 

alas we agree, it was the depression and not the intrawebz

 

 

 

That is not what I said, and we do not agree.

 

 

 

Depression is treatable, and she was being treated. Megan Meier was pushed into suicide as a direct result of Internet abuse.

[ego_scorpion]

Pathetic. All around the world, there are people dying of starvation,AIDs and god knows what else. This girl kills herself because of the words of morons like those, while at the same time, there are hundreds of people suffering sexual abuse, or who have lost their families etc, those people are the ones who have a reason for suicide. (although imo, suicide is wrong) Look, it's the internet, like chess said, the little red x makes everything go away.

 

 

 

Once again, those of you who are hand-waving this issue away by effectively blaming the victim do not understand what depression does.

 

alas we agree, it was the depression and not the intrawebz

 

 

 

That is not what I said, and we do not agree.

 

 

 

Depression is treatable, and she was being treated. Megan Meier was pushed into suicide as a direct result of Internet abuse.

 

 

 

How can you blame the internet for suisadal tendancies?

[lord_british]

He's not blaming the internet for suisadal [sic], tendencies.

 

 

 

He's blaming adults creating a fake person online, and using it to "spy" on someone else. Then using that same fake person to start little better than a "hate campaign" against a vulnerable person.

 

 

 

The same attitudes that "allowed" these adults to perform these vile acts are also prevalent in many online communities, including Runescape (and other games, yes).

[ego_scorpion]

He's not blaming the internet for suisadal [sic], tendencies.

 

 

 

He's blaming adults creating a fake person online, and using it to "spy" on someone else. Then using that same fake person to start little better than a "hate campaign" against a vulnerable person.

 

 

 

The same attitudes that "allowed" these adults to perform these vile acts are also prevalent in many online communities, including Runescape (and other games, yes).

 

What you said can be rephrased into i"lets not blame the gun that killed the victim, lets blame the bullet"

[lord_british]

He's not blaming the internet for suisadal [sic], tendencies.

 

 

 

He's blaming adults creating a fake person online, and using it to "spy" on someone else. Then using that same fake person to start little better than a "hate campaign" against a vulnerable person.

 

 

 

The same attitudes that "allowed" these adults to perform these vile acts are also prevalent in many online communities, including Runescape (and other games, yes).

 

What you said can be rephrased into i"lets not blame the gun that killed the victim, lets blame the bullet"

 

 

 

Again, you're missing the point. Whether intentional or not...

 

 

 

To borrow your analogy, it's neither the gun nor the bullet he's blaming, but the person pulling the trigger...

 

 

 

or are you still so self-centred, or intent on creating a fuss about pedantry, that you can't or won't see that?

[ego_scorpion]

He's not blaming the internet for suisadal [sic], tendencies.

 

 

 

He's blaming adults creating a fake person online, and using it to "spy" on someone else. Then using that same fake person to start little better than a "hate campaign" against a vulnerable person.

 

 

 

The same attitudes that "allowed" these adults to perform these vile acts are also prevalent in many online communities, including Runescape (and other games, yes).

 

What you said can be rephrased into i"lets not blame the gun that killed the victim, lets blame the bullet"

 

 

 

Again, you're missing the point. Whether intentional or not...

 

 

 

To borrow your analogy, it's neither the gun nor the bullet he's blaming, but the person pulling the trigger...

 

 

 

or are you still so self-centred, or intent on creating a fuss about pedantry, that you can't or won't see that?

 

 

 

Notice how instead of making a valid point you resort to insults? Analogy in this case = comparing the sourse and the method.

 

 

 

bullet through the gun and cruelty through the internet.

 

ps. I dont consier you important enough to insult, but hopefuly this statement gets the point accross :)

[lord_british]

you're still blaming the "tool", not the "workman".

 

 

 

It's the responsibility of the person using the "tool" to use it properly and in a safe manner.

 

 

 

The "tool" is without conscience, will, or motive. That lies in the "user"

[NJE03]

Makes one think twice before being rude online. (that article)

[ego_scorpion]

you're still blaming the "tool", not the "workman".

 

 

 

It's the responsibility of the person using the "tool" to use it properly and in a safe manner.

 

 

 

The "tool" is without conscience, will, or motive. That lies in the "user"

 

 

 

There will always be someone ready and willing to use the tools.

 

 

 

I do find it ironic that you are behaving exactly in the manner that you are condeming.

[usahellyes]

you're still blaming the "tool", not the "workman".

 

 

 

It's the responsibility of the person using the "tool" to use it properly and in a safe manner.

 

 

 

The "tool" is without conscience, will, or motive. That lies in the "user"

 

 

 

There will always be someone ready and willing to use the tools.

 

 

 

I do find it ironic that you are behaving exactly in the manner that you are condeming.

 

So you're saying that it's Megan's fault for being depressed in the first place, and that she should have simply stayed off the internet?

[ego_scorpion]

you're still blaming the "tool", not the "workman".

 

 

 

It's the responsibility of the person using the "tool" to use it properly and in a safe manner.

 

 

 

The "tool" is without conscience, will, or motive. That lies in the "user"

 

 

 

There will always be someone ready and willing to use the tools.

 

 

 

I do find it ironic that you are behaving exactly in the manner that you are condeming.

 

So you're saying that it's Megan's fault for being depressed in the first place, and that she should have simply stayed off the internet?

 

 

 

no more like you cant blame the internet for her being suisadal

[qeltar]

 

no more like you cant blame the internet for her being suisadal

 

 

This was already answered. Nobody is "blaming the Internet for her being suicidal". That comment is just silly.

 

 

 

ego_scorpion, you have posted over 25 times on this thread in under 7 hours. Mostly making personal attacks -- including one particularly nasty and off-topic post that was deleted -- and repeating the same comments over and over and over again.

 

 

 

You are disrupting what had been a rather good conversation. I would appreciate it if you would stop, or if there's a moderator reading this thread, if something could be done before the thread is killed off completely. Thank you.

[chris1216]

 

 

 

no more like you cant blame the internet for her being suisadal

 

 

 

The whole discussion about where blame lies is irrelevant because it is true that many things probably contributed to her death.

 

 

 

However, that does NOT discredit his claim that "you should be nicer on the internet because there's a chance that it could hurt someone". What exactly is WRONG about that statement?

 

 

 

Saying something like "well she should have been tough enough to take it" is an attempt to absolve the person doing the abuse of ANY responsibility. I'm not saying it was ALL the fault of the friend's parents, but even you can't make the claim that they didn't make things worse.

[ego_scorpion]

Actualy, wouldnt you agree that a person that just needed a push to drive them over the edge may have eventualy received that push anywhere?

 

 

 

Not that I dont feel bad for the poor girl, but granted that there is no 100% way of knowing exactly what transpired you cant realy play the blame game.

[qeltar]

Actualy, wouldnt you agree that a person that just needed a push to drive them over the edge may have eventualy received that push anywhere?

 

 

 

 

No, I wouldn't. And this claim, too, was already discussed a couple of pages back.

[mrpez]

Shouldn't this be in Off-Topic?

[ego_scorpion]

Actualy, wouldnt you agree that a person that just needed a push to drive them over the edge may have eventualy received that push anywhere?

 

 

 

 

No, I wouldn't. And this claim, too, was already discussed a couple of pages back.

 

 

 

I was responding to someone else, sorry to have misguided you I am no longer debating the matter iwth you, your point of view is as clear as ever.

[shotdown12]

Very very true words, I always enjoy reading your work. Its true that behind the pixels on the screen there are real people who have real feelings. People with problems in real life may escape to a virtual world to find friends who may not base their opinions on looks and wealth etc. But when people insult them in this haven there is no where to turn in their minds. Thus things like this can happen, always be careful what you say even if your just being sarcastic.

 

 

 

Well said Game. =D>

[Quelch]

The cool thing about the internet is that there's this convenient little red X in the corner of your window that makes everything go away.

 

 

 

I know, I know, it would be nice if we could all be respectful towards each other, but the reality is that in the outside world everything is hardly so hunky-dory and the internet is always going to reflect this. The only thing you can do is learn to deal with this. The internet is not a nice, safe place, an I'd go as far as to say I'm glad that it isn't, to some extent. The only way we can have a real, interesting, and ultimately engaging experience is if we are free to love and to hate as in the real world. If you can't take this, the fantastic thing is you don't have to - log out and go outside. The extent of sensationalism played up by the media over "cyber bullying" really grinds my gears - yes, it's a rough web of communication out there, but unlike real bullying, no one's forcing you to sit and take it - whenever you feel belittled or oppressed, there's always that friendly little red X that can make it go away.

 

 

 

Yes, words can hurt. Words can drive people to do unimaginable things out of pain. But when the only way you can receive these words is by reading text on a computer screen, when you can't see, hear, smell, touch, or even sense the sender, these words only have the effect that you choose them to have.

 

 

 

Yes, it's sad that someone had to die over such a ridiculous thing as Myspace, but it's also sad that stories like this one are only encouraging the thought that the internet needs to be regulated, needs to be censored, or needs to be overseen. One of the beauties of the internet is that in a world full of rules and codes and ethics and responsibilities, we can come on here and be allowed to say, do, or post whatever we please without having to fear punishment from people who disagree. Another beauty is that you don't have to sit here and take anything you don't want to. We have the options to speak our minds freely and to log out whenever we begin to feel uncomfortable. And when the former is in danger and the latter is being ignored, well, to me that makes for just as sad a story as the one you provided.

 

 

 

Well said, this is probably the only sensible post in this whole thread.

[Lacrosse_fan]

This reminds me of something from the RSC tutorial (not sure if it's still there) where my character said something along the lines of; "Are there rules to what I can say and do?" and the tutorial....person...said, "Yes, remember the people you will meet are REAL people with REAL feelings."

 

 

 

Sad story.

[Shahrazad]

What a sad story and has a strong meaning at the same time.

 

When I first read the story i knew it was kind of directed to Runescape.

 

 

 

Actually, I agree with it. Very true that people might get hurt because of what others would say to them. It's obvious that young teenagers are likely to commit suicide because their feelings get extremly hurt. They haven't developed confidence in themselves yet, and they're likely to accept the care of others.

 

 

 

People should be careful about their degree of harshness at others because at the end something sadly might happen.

 

 

 

So what if someone was overweight? and what's the problem if someone was ugly? he/she is still a human. People shouldn't start saying such abusive words at others so that they wouldn't be depressed. Those kind of people will feel they're not acceptable by the society because of some useless negative outcomes they have.

 

 

 

I know some people in this world would think "oh yeah it is online so no one would know who we actually are" and then start to hurt feelings of others which is completely wrong. People should care about others, even if it was online, because a fault might be caused by them.

 

 

 

Seriously, this story is a very good example to warn people about their harsh, disrespectful and careless attitudes towards others.

 

 

 

Thank you for the story.

 

 

 

 

 

Kind Regards

[Bobbington]

Ok I was with you until the "sound familiar" section but I will talk about that later.

 

 

 

First of all thanks for posting this, I hope it will reach a few of the tip.it community members who are obnoxious to the effects their actions can have. Sadly you have hit the nail on the head... people cant understand that this is not just a game.... it is a game in the real world.

 

 

 

This is not like tomb raider where we run around killing tigers and occasionally through insults in the direction of the screen.... this is the real world with real people. There is no difference between saying offensive things here than their would be in sending offensive letters in your community.

 

 

 

coming back to the sound familiar section: I think Myspace let down their community, I personally won't use it as it has drastically moved away from it's intention. It sadly draws huge negative attention and seems incapable of managing it's user base. I once have a myspace account.... know how many friends requests i got that where in breach of the sexual content rule?

 

 

 

I think however it is an issue that Jagex are very good at, apart form the 13+ rule which is virtually impossible to keep (although they do take action when there is evidence). The report function is our friend, sadly allot of people won't use it as they think it's "grassing somebody up" or they wont use it as the player might get banned for breaking a rule....

 

 

 

Well heres the thing..... JAGEX CARE if you bring abuse to their attention they will investigate and take any action that will help, but they need to know about it first.

 

 

 

If you are being bullied in game you need to tell Jagex either through the report function or through a query. if you see another player being abused report them.... even if it's not you being abused. Jagex need to know so they can prevent disasters like the described one.

 

 

 

If you know a friend or anybody in game who is suffering from abuse it is your responsibility to help. this is a community game, try to act like one.

 

 

 

everything we do and say can effect somebody... I try my best to see that effect is a good one.

 

 

 

On another note I think you are taking that handbook thing a bit far... i have seen you mention it before. From what I understand whilst it is an official handbook, apart from providing a bit of information it is not actually under direct control of Jagex, as is made and produced under license. (I also think it predates the 13+ laws existence)

 

 

 

Thanks for the article though

[Dragonlordjl]

Ok I was with you until the "sound familiar" section but I will talk about that later.

 

 

 

First of all thanks for posting this, I hope it will reach a few of the tip.it community members who are obnoxious to the effects their actions can have. Sadly you have hit the nail on the head... people cant understand that this is not just a game.... it is a game in the real world.

 

 

 

This is not like tomb raider where we run around killing tigers and occasionally through insults in the direction of the screen.... this is the real world with real people. There is no difference between saying offensive things here than their would be in sending offensive letters in your community.

 

 

 

coming back to the sound familiar section: I think Myspace let down their community, I personally won't use it as it has drastically moved away from it's intention. It sadly draws huge negative attention and seems incapable of managing it's user base. I once have a myspace account.... know how many friends requests i got that where in breach of the sexual content rule?

 

 

 

I think however it is an issue that Jagex are very good at, apart form the 13+ rule which is virtually impossible to keep (although they do take action when there is evidence). The report function is our friend, sadly allot of people won't use it as they think it's "grassing somebody up" or they wont use it as the player might get banned for breaking a rule....

 

 

 

Well heres the thing..... JAGEX CARE if you bring abuse to their attention they will investigate and take any action that will help, but they need to know about it first.

 

 

 

If you are being bullied in game you need to tell Jagex either through the report function or through a query. if you see another player being abused report them.... even if it's not you being abused. Jagex need to know so they can prevent disasters like the described one.

 

 

 

If you know a friend or anybody in game who is suffering from abuse it is your responsibility to help. this is a community game, try to act like one.

 

 

 

everything we do and say can effect somebody... I try my best to see that effect is a good one.

 

 

 

On another note I think you are taking that handbook thing a bit far... i have seen you mention it before. From what I understand whilst it is an official handbook, apart from providing a bit of information it is not actually under direct control of Jagex, as is made and produced under license. (I also think it predates the 13+ laws existence)

 

 

 

Thanks for the article though

 

 

 

Jagex cares? That's why I reported the same person for three consecutive days at Pest Control, who was using an auto-typer to scam people, only to find them there a week later, doing the exact same thing?

[DarkVincent]

To the main point of this topic:

 

I feel sorry for that girl, especially as she had my age and I know what she felt. She was suffering from depression, got her mind weaker and weaker, and finally succumbed to death. I feel quite the same way. I've felt depression for a year now, and I may think of suicide to escape this suffering but it's still a destiny far, really far away. She was discriminated, quite rejected, on-off relationships, and whatever. Same with me.

 

The discrimination or judging of a person greatly affects their mind. And it gets worser when your personality is changing (I started getting depressed in mid-puberty= NOT GOOD, as I lost interest in many things and got angrier or sad easier, and some other stuff). The person would have suffered so much, they'd try to end the torment by ending their own lives, as then they would be gone from the society that irritates them, the people that ignore them, the unloyal friends and the unrequisited love...

 

Words do hurt, emotionally. Especially if it's too much. It can make you go mad, or become something like a killer or something.

 

I'm so pissed of living, so with music, I can make a living, and wear a TUNIC!... whatever.

[qeltar]

Shahrazad -- thank you. I've noticed that women seem to respond to these issues much more reasonably than some men. Doesn't surprise me since on the whole they tend to be more empathetic.

 

 

 

 

coming back to the sound familiar section: I think Myspace let down their community, I personally won't use it as it has drastically moved away from it's intention. It sadly draws huge negative attention and seems incapable of managing it's user base.

 

 

Are you truly unaware of just how many people say similar things about RuneScape?

 

 

Well heres the thing..... JAGEX CARE if you bring abuse to their attention they will investigate and take any action that will help, but they need to know about it first.

 

 

Well, it's good that they will take action if you bring abuse to their attention. At the same time, there is much more they could do in terms of being proactive to stop the abuse, and to keep kids out of their game.

 

 

 

They apparently don't care enough to do them, however.

 

 

On another note I think you are taking that handbook thing a bit far... i have seen you mention it before. From what I understand whilst it is an official handbook, apart from providing a bit of information it is not actually under direct control of Jagex, as is made and produced under license. (I also think it predates the 13+ laws existence)

 

 

How am I "taking it a bit far"? By continuing to talk about it? I don't see why I shouldn't, when the situation persists. Jagex clearly isn't going to stop marketing to kids. If the few people like myself who try to bring the issue to light stop, then what?

 

 

 

As has already been mentioned several times, the book was written at Jagex's behest and with input from Jagex employees (including, if I am not mistaken, at least one of the Gowers.)

 

 

 

Jagex chose to have this book written at a level appropriate for pre-teens. Jagex chose to publish it with Scholastic, a company that specifically puts out kids books and sells them in schools.

 

 

 

Why?

 

 

 

Bobbington2, you're clearly an intelligent person, but I have to wonder if your status as a moderator has affected your ability to be impartial. (Frankly, I think that using players as moderators is not only a way that Jagex gets free "slave labor", but it's also an instrument of control.)

 

 

 

Be honest with yourself. Is it reasonable or appropriate for Jagex to have a RuneScape book that gets kids excited about playing the game, being marketed to 10 to 12 year olds?