Naivety...Again.

[snake6man]

heh, this wouldnt stop rwt. they could just sell their supplys at the grand exchange and then... oh hang on it would! it would eliminate the transfer of a large amount of money from one person to the other for free, or for any price under what is worth it. plus, they added another tab thing (the assist tab, below the trade tab) which is a bit anoying. they're probably going to take out the trade tab to make as many options as there were before.

 

 

 

I hope they dont get rid of the drop system, i just think they should only make it possible for you to see your drop. after the time, it dissapears instead of apearing to everyone else. because many people drop itums because they dont have room, but later they eat food or watever and have enough room to pick it up.

[jessy87]

usually I sceptical of speculation on the forums. But this unnerves me a little.... I just hope you are wrong (No offence :P )

 

 

 

I hope i'm wrong too :oops: :ohnoes: :uhh:

 

 

 

You'll be happy to know that you are.

 

 

 

TRADING WILL NOT BE REMOVED.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i dont want trading to be removed, but when you say it like that... i hope it is so i can rub it in your face, thats just how i am.

 

 

 

 

 

seriously, stay open to ideas. if not its called narrow mindedness. honestly, this is possible but i dont want it to be done.

[snake6man]

Well, I didn't read everything, so someone may have said this.

 

 

 

But hypothetically, if I were to buy gold, and direct trading was eliminated, I would just go on the grand exchange, put up some ashes, for a price of X millions of dollars, that the RWT would then purchase, I got my money, they got theres.

 

 

 

As someone who has no experience in such activities, I came up with that idea in a matter of seconds, think of people who do it consistently, they know of many ways, they won't be hard pressed to come up with new ones.

 

 

 

Just some opinions.

 

 

 

 

 

~ Jay

 

 

 

i highly dout thats how its going to work. there is going to be a price set for each itum based on prices right now, and you cant sell for any more or less than that. you dont get to set watever price you want. that would never work, there would be tons of people in there trying to sell anything for 500m or watever just to take up space.

[mr_invisable]

I got scared and nervous after reading this. :P

 

If what you said became true, i could see runescape in 7 years.

 

 

 

it made me more scared. :ohnoes:

[kdb148]

 

 

 

I agree, you would not always want to go to the GE to buy something. There are times when a single trade is required. For example - how many times have you desparately required a spade, or a single law and traded on the spot. As I said previously stopping these sort of player-player trades would cause the biggest exodus ever seen on RS.

 

 

 

Remember how they mentioned identifying item value by how much players are selling it for? And now they've capped non-tourney stakes. They will never eliminate player-to-player trading, but they may very well cap giving at a certain amount, like maybe 5k or 10k or so, so you can still get a spade or buy a law when necessary. Or make it so that trades must be even on both sides, using the player value and requiring that each side be within 5 or 10% of the other.

 

 

 

Normally, speculation like this is annoying, but it really does seem that Jagex has realized they can't get rid of autoers by banning, and are redesigning the game to remove the ability to trade directly. However, I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing - IF the grand exchange is widely accessible from all or most banks. Jagex really needs to think long and hard to ensure that trading is not made even the slightest bit more inconvenient. Otherwise, the inevitabe outcry will actually be justified.

[brave]

Well, I didn't read everything, so someone may have said this.

 

 

 

But hypothetically, if I were to buy gold, and direct trading was eliminated, I would just go on the grand exchange, put up some ashes, for a price of X millions of dollars, that the RWT would then purchase, I got my money, they got theres.

 

 

 

As someone who has no experience in such activities, I came up with that idea in a matter of seconds, think of people who do it consistently, they know of many ways, they won't be hard pressed to come up with new ones.

 

 

 

Just some opinions.

 

 

 

 

 

~ Jay

 

 

 

i highly dout thats how its going to work. there is going to be a price set for each itum based on prices right now, and you cant sell for any more or less than that. you dont get to set watever price you want. that would never work, there would be tons of people in there trying to sell anything for 500m or watever just to take up space.

 

 

 

Again people are speculating on how the GE would work. However, I wouldn't expect Jagex to set maximum prices for items. Merket forces will set the prices of items. You may try to sell your yew logs for something ridiculous like 1M each, but no-one is going to buy at that price. Additionally I would expect a time limit to each sale, eg after say 24hrs with the item not sold it is returned to your bank, otherwise the GE would soon get full with rubbish items and perhaps even being used as a second bank by players.

[blackrazor]

There's been a lot of great speculation here. It's been a fun read. I'd like to add, that Jagex isn't a traditional business model; they are very different from traditional companies (ex: SOE). They didn't get into this business as a bunch of "suits" solely to earn money for their investors. It started as a labour of love and curiosity by two quirky Gower brothers and some of their pals, and morphed into some freakishly successful thing.

 

 

 

This is both a bad and good thing. Runescape, as the brainchild of successful creator/entreprenneurs, doesn't conform to other popular games or stick to a standard marketing mold. Instead, it goes its own way, marches to the beat of its own drum. That can be lots of fun, for both players and designers.

 

 

 

But this also means that if the Gowers have an unhealthy obsession with nit-picky rules and RWT, then it may be reflected in the game, as well. Even if it's to a point that isn't profitable or even fun to honest players. It's their baby. Remember that.

 

 

 

Okay, now for my predictions:

 

 

 

1) GE. They are going to make this as easy to use as possible. No fees to use, I am predicting. It may even be a standard part of the character interface, so that you can use it any time, instead of having to travel to specific NPCs.

 

 

 

The main benefit of the GE for Jagex will be savings on customer support costs, from less claims against scammers in player-to-player trades, and a developing database of true cash values of every item in the game. It's hard to get that true cash value from player-to-player trades, since bartering, scamming, lending, and gifting will skew the results.

 

 

 

In order to thwart RWT, Jagex may do any of these for the GE:

 

 

 

a) Make trades anonymous, so if someone puts ashes for 5M, the person on the other end of the RWT (buying the ashes) won't know for sure that he is giving his 5M to the correct player.

 

 

 

B) Make trades only variable in the most significant digit. So, you could sell ashes for 1M, or 2M, or 9M, or 20M ... but not 1,000,312 gp, so you wouldn't be able to uniquely identify it with trailing insignificant digits (the 312gp part in the above example).

 

 

 

c) Once enough data is collected, make all trades "locked in" within an acceptable price range. This would replace (B) as a more effective control, once the raw data is in place. For example, if through data collection, coal is determined to have an average price of 192 gp, then you would allow it vary up or down by 20% of that value. A new average would be recalculated regularly, so that normal, large-scale market trends would be allowed.

 

 

 

2) Drop trades (and drops upon deaths)

 

 

 

a) I think that items will be made to vanish upon log out. That should kill mule-based drop trading and pure-twinking, but not RWT much.

 

 

 

B) You won't be able to drop gp, or if you can, it will be limited to small amounts, like 500 gp.

 

 

 

c) You won't be able to drop any item or pile worth more than 50K (the value will be taken from the GE data collection)

 

 

 

Jagex will put a positive spin on this, as cracking down on twinking pures, and also as more flexible rules allowing you to keep more of your items and gold when you die. If you think about it, these limits won't affect drop parties, much. It's mostly addy and runite finished products, and assorted other cheap things that are dropped at most events.

 

 

 

3) Player-to-player (direct) trading

 

 

 

Once the GE raw data is available, each side of a trade will be given a certain cash value (based on GE average values), and you won't be able to have it vary by more than 5K or 5%, whichever is larger.

 

 

 

Jagex may also limit trades to 5 trades every hour, or something like that.

 

 

 

Yes, this will totally kill generous acts of friendship, family and friends helping each other, etc.

 

 

 

It will also stop not only RWT, but many common scams, trust trades, etc. Jagex will put a positive spin on this, claiming that they need to cut the customer service load from scam complaints, so that they can serve the rest of our needs better and faster. And make the game safer, with less players angry about scams.

 

 

 

===

 

 

 

Well those are my predictions. That's all they are. Nothing more. Have fun. :)

 

 

 

Please don't think that I approve of these ideas; they are only my predictions, nothing more. I think that the Jagex culture has an unhealthy obsession with nit-picky rules and punishing cheaters (even at everyone else's expense), and that this is how it might play out. That is all.

[das]

What happens with borrowing items from friends? giving christmas gifts to friends and birthday presents?

 

 

 

I will say I am nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs over trading and I think this is an issue that the tip.it times needs to jump on asap. If you remove trading this game will go down into the [cabbage]s...I am nervous no doubt

[Lakitsym_Rose]

Jagex will never remove direct trading..

 

 

 

Contrary to popular belief, they're not trying to upset players, and the Grand Exchange is an attempt to help people. :)

 

 

 

If you're wrong and all your brown nosing Jagex has gone to waste may I shove it in your face?

 

 

 

I hope they won't, I think the Duel Arena tournament, after much thought, is good. It will help the economy, as it has already, I want my 5m to be worth something again.

 

Oh and I think it will improve my post pointing this out, I am a level 70 pure, I lost 68m staking two days before the update.

[salim123]

Well, now jagex can move to their bigger plan and take out all the trees to stop tree autoers...

 

seriously... are they stupid?

 

this wont stop it at all only halt it by 30seconds...

[Randox]

There dise seem to be a pattern of lowerign our dependance on trades. Aside from the list in teh first post lootshare can be added.

 

 

 

But I dont think theyll stop it, and they do recognise that people borrow money.

 

 

 

I think if direct trading were removed, possibly half (or more) of the merchants would quit on the spot just to send Jagex a big [bleep] you.

 

 

 

Its what all the stakers should have done (should do) is stop renewing their membership.

[Y2g2003]

Yesterday, apart from reading one of the bravest posts on this forum about the new update from R2 Pleasant about his remorse...

 

 

 

Brave? What was brave about that? It was pretty obvious YEARS ago that he was a price manipulator. God knows I had my fair share of arguements with him about his manipulative ways, only to eventually be ignored because he knew I was right.

 

 

 

Granted, I wouldn't have pinned him as selling his GP back then, but now it makes sense as to why he was so hell bent on trying to manipulate the rares market.

 

 

 

It's people like him that are destroying the game, not Jagex. Jagex has to do what they think they need to do. No matter how that effects the game. And when you get pseudo-intellects like R2 trying to make real money on a game... then yeah... you're going to have conflicts of intrest.

 

 

 

The scary thing about it is, there really isn't a way around real world trading. Even if you completely eliminate the trade system. Jagex has to at least try and cut it back though.

[Lakitsym_Rose]

Yesterday, apart from reading one of the bravest posts on this forum about the new update from R2 Pleasant about his remorse...

 

 

 

Brave? What was brave about that? It was pretty obvious YEARS ago that he was a price manipulator. God knows I had my fair share of arguements with him about his manipulative ways, only to eventually be ignored because he knew I was right.

 

 

 

Granted, I wouldn't have pinned him as selling his GP back then, but now it makes sense as to why he was so hell bent on trying to manipulate the rares market.

 

 

 

It's people like him that are destroying the game, not Jagex. Jagex has to do what they think they need to do. No matter how that effects the game. And when you get pseudo-intellects like R2 trying to make real money on a game... then yeah... you're going to have conflicts of intrest.

 

 

 

The scary thing about it is, there really isn't a way around real world trading. Even if you completely eliminate the trade system. Jagex has to at least try and cut it back though.

 

 

 

 

 

Just because he manipulated prices didn't make him.. *not brave*.

 

And actually, if Jagex limits how much you can PK with, takes away dropping, takes away trading, then there is no way people can give items to another.

[monkeyboo2]

After reading some of the posts i was reminded about Drops from death

 

 

 

If Jagex want to complete the whole lot-stopping all methods of RWIT trade includes:

 

Duel (done)

 

Trading (coming soon)

 

Drop

 

Regular Death

 

PK?

 

 

 

I may be thinking into it abit far but if Jagex truly wanted to stamp out all forms of unbalanced transfer, wouldn't these be included?

 

 

 

Sounds like a scary thought, and but if i'm wrong about trading i'm wrong about those 2 aswell (thank god). :anxious:

 

 

 

Yesterday, apart from reading one of the bravest posts on this forum about the new update from R2 Pleasant about his remorse...

 

 

 

Brave? What was brave about that? It was pretty obvious YEARS ago that he was a price manipulator. God knows I had my fair share of arguements with him about his manipulative ways, only to eventually be ignored because he knew I was right.

 

 

 

Granted, I wouldn't have pinned him as selling his GP back then, but now it makes sense as to why he was so hell bent on trying to manipulate the rares market.

 

 

 

It's people like him that are destroying the game, not Jagex. Jagex has to do what they think they need to do. No matter how that effects the game. And when you get pseudo-intellects like R2 trying to make real money on a game... then yeah... you're going to have conflicts of intrest.

 

 

 

The scary thing about it is, there really isn't a way around real world trading. Even if you completely eliminate the trade system. Jagex has to at least try and cut it back though.

 

 

 

 

 

Just because he manipulated prices didn't make him.. *not brave*.

 

And actually, if Jagex limits how much you can PK with, takes away dropping, takes away trading, then there is no way people can give items to another.

 

Yeah, you can't judge him on one thing that he used to do. And besides if he can justify why he did it to me, then i'll leave it at that.

 

Brave because he owned up- atlast perhaps but nevertheless; and he faced the consequences.

 

 

 

Anyway the thread isn't really about that (although i thought it deserved a bravery mention) its about the possibility of GE replacing normal trade in one way or another. R2 Pleasant just happened to remind me of that in his post and i thnought he deserved a little credit.

[Y2g2003]

It isn't brave when it should've been painfully obvious as to what he was doing.

 

 

 

Think about it... a guy... investing in rares and does absolutely nothing on the game besides trade. Pop on forums such as this and get people to believe that prices are on the increase/decrease. Make a ton of GP, rinse, repeat.

 

 

 

Nothing brave about it. And admitting to doing it does nothing. Especially if he was done with the game.

 

 

 

The point in which I was getting at, and I think it was missed or maybe not completely spelled out... is Jagex lost control thanks to people like R2. Jagex needs to try and maybe get some control back in their own market. Grand Exchange will more then likely do that. And if Direct trading is limited or put to a complete end... you only have people like R2 to thank. Praise is the last thing you should be giving creeps like him.

[Dario]

You are writing good points, and the thing that scares me the most is that it could happen, and I bet there is a big catch to GEX. Let's wait another week and see..

[Lakitsym_Rose]

It isn't brave when it should've been painfully obvious as to what he was doing.

 

 

 

Think about it... a guy... investing in rares and does absolutely nothing on the game besides trade. Pop on forums such as this and get people to believe that prices are on the increase/decrease. Make a ton of GP, rinse, repeat.

 

 

 

Nothing brave about it. And admitting to doing it does nothing. Especially if he was done with the game.

 

 

 

The point in which I was getting at, and I think it was missed or maybe not completely spelled out... is Jagex lost control thanks to people like R2. Jagex needs to try and maybe get some control back in their own market. Grand Exchange will more then likely do that. And if Direct trading is limited or put to a complete end... you only have people like R2 to thank. Praise is the last thing you should be giving creeps like him.

 

 

 

I can say in complete honesty with confidence I would prefer RS with people manipulating prices as opposed to an RS with no trading, PK'Ing, or Staking.

[snake6man]

Yesterday, apart from reading one of the bravest posts on this forum about the new update from R2 Pleasant about his remorse...

 

 

 

Brave? What was brave about that? It was pretty obvious YEARS ago that he was a price manipulator. God knows I had my fair share of arguements with him about his manipulative ways, only to eventually be ignored because he knew I was right.

 

 

 

Granted, I wouldn't have pinned him as selling his GP back then, but now it makes sense as to why he was so hell bent on trying to manipulate the rares market.

 

 

 

It's people like him that are destroying the game, not Jagex. Jagex has to do what they think they need to do. No matter how that effects the game. And when you get pseudo-intellects like R2 trying to make real money on a game... then yeah... you're going to have conflicts of intrest.

 

 

 

The scary thing about it is, there really isn't a way around real world trading. Even if you completely eliminate the trade system. Jagex has to at least try and cut it back though.

 

 

 

 

 

Just because he manipulated prices didn't make him.. *not brave*.

 

And actually, if Jagex limits how much you can PK with, takes away dropping, takes away trading, then there is no way people can give items to another.

 

 

 

yes there is... they can just sell the bots themselves. I'd bet that people would pay for acounts with 10m on them and 70 wcing or whatever. it would still emiminate a huge portion of RWT tho because most of the people who buy are people who want the money on their own acounts.

[berbatovsky]

It isn't brave when it should've been painfully obvious as to what he was doing.

 

 

 

Think about it... a guy... investing in rares and does absolutely nothing on the game besides trade. Pop on forums such as this and get people to believe that prices are on the increase/decrease. Make a ton of GP, rinse, repeat.

 

 

 

Nothing brave about it. And admitting to doing it does nothing. Especially if he was done with the game.

 

 

 

The point in which I was getting at, and I think it was missed or maybe not completely spelled out... is Jagex lost control thanks to people like R2. Jagex needs to try and maybe get some control back in their own market. Grand Exchange will more then likely do that. And if Direct trading is limited or put to a complete end... you only have people like R2 to thank. Praise is the last thing you should be giving creeps like him.

 

 

 

I can say in complete honesty with confidence I would prefer RS with people manipulating prices as opposed to an RS with no trading, PK'Ing, or Staking.

 

 

 

You would prefer a game with people manipulating the game so that they can sell the geepee for real life money being unpunished and hailed as brave for admitting it (there was no remorse in the post shown) to a game without staking/Pk'ing/or trade. Fair enough, but what if you took the negatives away?

 

There still is staking there still is trade and there still is pking. Just because Jagex nurfed staking doesn't mean they'll remove pking/trading you are all making huge leaps in logic here.

 

 

 

Also [bleep] R2 Pleasant.

[Mithril_Max]

It sounds stupid at first but it does make a lot of sense... With all the new features removing trading really wouldnt destroy anything (other than making it annoying/impossible to gift your friends)

[soulegleon]

hey guys i came out with the most brilliant plan to fix autoers!

 

 

 

remove woodcutting fishing and mining skills, then they cant make money! woo hoo :thumbsup:

 

 

 

Don't give Jagex any ideas. :roll:

 

 

 

I personally do not believe Jagex would ever take away direct trading. But Jagex really needs to loosen up. I appreciate their hard work with trying to stop rule-breakers, but, as someone said earlier, they seem to be focusing more on that than their loyal fan base.

 

 

 

I LOLed at that one.

 

 

 

But there is a way to stop autoers and the supposed "sweatshops" in China, and that solution lies in tutorial island.

 

 

 

I have done all the calculating and have concluded that there would be only 2 ways to make autoer accounts:

 

 

 

Do it by human means, as in those gold farmers will actually have to complete an extended tutorial island to use the account.

 

 

 

Or make an extravagant autoer to do it.

 

 

 

Think of it this way: how many ways can you say/imply "yes" in the human language?

[monkeyboo2]

It isn't brave when it should've been painfully obvious as to what he was doing.

 

 

 

Think about it... a guy... investing in rares and does absolutely nothing on the game besides trade. Pop on forums such as this and get people to believe that prices are on the increase/decrease. Make a ton of GP, rinse, repeat.

 

 

 

Nothing brave about it. And admitting to doing it does nothing. Especially if he was done with the game.

 

 

 

The point in which I was getting at, and I think it was missed or maybe not completely spelled out... is Jagex lost control thanks to people like R2. Jagex needs to try and maybe get some control back in their own market. Grand Exchange will more then likely do that. And if Direct trading is limited or put to a complete end... you only have people like R2 to thank. Praise is the last thing you should be giving creeps like him.

 

 

 

Well i think your missing my point a little; 'i'm encouraging this kind of 'i'll never do it again, i'm sorry'. R2 could have just posted as his last post '%"$ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã! Jagex' or similar in a giant thread of hate, like some of these so called 'creeps' do. Some 'creeps' carry on RWITing and others, when they are banned, slink off without remorse.

 

I'm comparing his bravery to that of other such 'creeps', and compared to the rest of them, R2 is admirable, very admirable. :anxious:

[Etta]

Yes i smell it too, the end of runescape is 'nigh.

 

 

 

I wonder what i'll do with my life after Jagex have wrecked it so badly it cant be repaired :-k

[tameelf]

and the npc player poll winner for this months makeover is ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,wait for it .................................party pete.

[WingedFish]

Trading is not going to be removed. It'll just be f-ed up like duel arena. Let's say you could trade 100k worth items in 15 minutes.

 

 

 

I can see it now...

 

 

 

"In our fight against RWTers, you may now only trade 3k worth of goods per 15 minutes. This may seem like an attack against you, but removing RWTers is for your own good"

 

 

 

RS started going down the toilet after Lootshare and the assist system came out... I wonder how many dedicated members they're going to scare away before they finally feel they've beaten the RWTers.