Is God real post your thoughts!

[mrpez]

I think he means that reality is shaped by our actions, not by the actions of a supreme being.

[The Dark Lord]

Reality is only human-defined after all.

 

 

 

What do you mean?

 

 

 

It's complicated, but here's an example. To a Christian, Yahweh is "real." To a Muslim, Allah is "real." To an atheist, the lack of a god is just as "real" as the existence of a god is as "real" to a theist.

[Rebdragon]

It's complicated, but here's an example. To a Christian, Yahweh is "real." To a Muslim, Allah is "real." To an atheist, the lack of a god is just as "real" as the existence of a god is as "real" to a theist.

 

Your words baffle and confuse me.

[warri0r45]

Reality is only human-defined after all.

 

 

 

What do you mean?

 

 

 

It's complicated, but here's an example. To a Christian, Yahweh is "real." To a Muslim, Allah is "real." To an atheist, the lack of a god is just as "real" as the existence of a god is as "real" to a theist.

 

 

 

Out of the 28 or so pages of this thread, this would be the only one I can rememebr that really attmepts to answer the question of the thread directly...

 

 

 

I think I understand, but of course not everyone's 'reality' is true. Case in point is that two monotheisms existing can't be true. Everyone has their own perception (which they consider 'real') of god, but only one can be true, if theism is true.

[vilageidiotx]

It is impossible to know. To assume you can know is foolish. After that, it is all up to what you want, or at least which possibility is the most comfortable to you.

[wildernessfreelancer]

He even said I was racist for not liking his religion! SO SMART!

 

 

 

Nice sarcasm... not. You're racist 'cause you're putting another religion in a bad light. Aka INCITING RELIGIOUS HATRED? It's fine if you don't like someone's religion, really. Just don't talk bad about it.

 

 

 

Therefore, how is it "racist" to dislike your religion? Here, I'll answer for you - IT ISN'T.

 

 

 

Ooooookay? How about being "religist" then? Being racist doesn't apply to races only. It can be against any form of group.

 

 

 

In short, you're a fool.

 

 

 

Yeah? Well right back at ya!

 

 

 

And I'm telling "baseless lies" by saying Muhammed had seizures and displayed other signs of possession?

 

 

 

Dude, Muhammed isn't possessed by a demon. Tell that to all the other Muslims in this world and they'll say the same thing.

 

 

 

Muslims know this happened, and completely ignore the fact that Satan made Muhammed utter these things, meaning that Muhammed was not a prophet of God. No other prophet of God has ever uttered anything from Satan - they were protected by God himself from this.

 

 

 

Satan tempted Muhammed to say it, but Gabriel corrected him.

 

 

 

THAT is why Muslims LOVE to point out the fact that Muhammed was illiterate, because his illiteracy would make that impossible.

 

 

 

Muhammed was illiterate. Period.

 

 

 

And a threat from the Muslim poster! YAY! I care not if some extremist loser kills me, and I care not of your silly "out-cries".

 

 

 

Lol, was I threatening you? No. That outcry was due to the fact that what you're saying is BLASPHEMY.

 

 

 

Yet here are Muslims, saying the Bible is corrupted.

 

 

 

Well, yeah. The Bible is corrupted as it has been edited numerous times by humans. Little bit of editing, here. There. Looks like it never changed at all.

 

 

 

Muhammed is not a prophet of God, but a pawn of Satan.

 

which means Muhammed was - like all of us - touched by Satan, and a sinner.

 

Muslims are deceived greatly, and many of them know it but they do not care because they have an agenda

 

 

 

 

Yeah.... the crap that you've mentioned definitely counts as BLASPHEMY. If this leaked to the papers/media, it'll create a storm bigger than the "Teddy-bear" thing.

 

 

 

I'll give you one thing, though. Jews and Muslims are at war with each other, from the ancient times till now. Right now it's pretty much Palestine, Iran, Iraq versus Israel and the U.S.

 

 

 

Hey, you think Muslims are doing bad things against Jews. What you don't know is that Jews are doing bad things against Muslims too. You should go to Jerusalem, then you'll see Jews destroying mosques and killing Muslims.

 

 

 

On top of that, Jews use the Internet to create Islamic websites, thinking that they can fool us into believing what they wrote.

 

Such as:

 

http://www.answering-islam.org

 

http://www.thequran.com

 

http://www.thekoran.com/imk

[BlueLancer]

 

I'll give you one thing, though. Jews and Muslims are at war with each other, from the ancient times till now. Right now it's pretty much Palestine, Iran, Iraq versus Israel and the U.S.

 

 

 

 

That's funny because my father has quite a few Jewish friends, he visits them and doesn't condemn their practices, he eats their food... Why does it matter? Does it make him less of a muslim?

 

 

 

You're just as bad as the bible belt christians or the KKK if you really believe everything your bigoted father or the Koran told you. No people are at war with each other at birth.

 

 

 

Also, sure, USA is against Palestine. That's why they have paid them hundreds of millions in foreign aid & support the forming of a palestinian state and the withdrawal of Israel from the occupied territories gained in the 1960's wars?

 

 

 

On top of that, Jews use the Internet to create Islamic websites, thinking that they can fool us into believing what they wrote.

 

Such as:

 

http://www.answering-islam.org

 

http://www.thequran.com

 

http://www.thekoran.com/imk

 

 

 

How is, say thequran.com any different from skepticsannotatedbible.com? They both view the books from a purely objective viewpoint, they have no inaccuracies whatsoever. Sounds like you have a conspiracy theory about 'jews' being behind everything from world wars to 9/11.

 

 

 

lol, was I threatening you? No. That outcry was due to the fact that what you're saying is BLASPHEMY.

 

 

 

A text which possibly shows your views/beliefs critically is "blasphemy" just in your reality. You're implying islam is the correct religion, but you forget over 75% of the world isn't islamic (and the great majority of the world isn't christian either for that matter). What is "blasphemy" to you, is an observation to another.

 

 

 

Don't you think it's blasphemy to the jews when you show them how inaccurate "their" religion is? After all, they have the Talmud, you have the Koran. It's just your word against theirs.

[wildernessfreelancer]

Don't you think it's blasphemy to the jews when you show them how inaccurate "their" religion is? After all, they have the Talmud, you have the Koran. It's just your word against theirs.

 

 

 

Yeah. Tell that to Schmo0zle here. That's what he had been implying as well. If I knew any better you should have said the same thing to him in the first place. Talk about a one-sided Mod....

[BlueLancer]

Don't you think it's blasphemy to the jews when you show them how inaccurate "their" religion is? After all, they have the Talmud, you have the Koran. It's just your word against theirs.

 

 

 

Yeah. Tell that to Schmo0zle here. That's what he had been implying as well. If I knew any better you should have said the same thing to him in the first place. Talk about a one-sided Mod....

 

 

 

Since you ignored the rest of my post I'll reply anyways...

 

 

 

Why is it one-sided? Isn't it correct to view every religion at least objectively, if not critically.. Since not all people have a similar religion?

 

 

 

For example, it's quite correct to say both christianity and islam were spread by brutal violence. Regardless of their good messages or intentions, those religions were always spread by crusades against heathens in Europe/Middle East/slaughtering indigenous populations in the americas, jihads against leaders unwilling to embrace islam or sharia as a form of government...

 

 

 

It's not "blasphemy", it's what historically happened. Perhaps the teachings in those religions prohibit the killing of civilians, looting cities or committing murder (actually, both the Bible and Koran have multiple verses supporting the killing of another person), but that's what those followers represented their religion with.

 

 

 

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Behold! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

 

 

 

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death

 

 

 

Of course, muslims will often say "well that's just what people believed back then" and christians will say "that's not relevant anymore" or "that was in the Old Testament".

 

 

 

But those things are in your holy books, and some people in the world are still using those verses to justify killing other human beings and every other barbaric act imaginable.

 

 

 

Out of all world religions and sacred texts, the Bible and Qur'an are particularly, and exceptionally rich with rhetoric of killing 'infidels' or 'heathens', advocating death for crimes, using religion as law, etc.

[warri0r45]

From verses like those you presented, BlueLancer, I suppose the question is would these religions have spread the way they did if these verses weren't present in their holy books? Did they give the believers of old (and Muslim extremists of now) credence to do the horrific things they did/do? I think that's an obvious yes.

 

 

 

Thank god the social Zeitgeist has moved on from past times and people can actually look at their holy books (for the most part) and realise stoning the unbelievers or killing your disobediant children isn't acceptable any more, because the holy books sure as hell aint' gonna change.

[Schmo0zle]

He even said I was racist for not liking his religion! SO SMART!

 

 

 

Nice sarcasm... not. You're racist 'cause you're putting another religion in a bad light. Aka INCITING RELIGIOUS HATRED? It's fine if you don't like someone's religion, really. Just don't talk bad about it.

 

 

 

Therefore, how is it "racist" to dislike your religion? Here, I'll answer for you - IT ISN'T.

 

 

 

Ooooookay? How about being "religist" then? Being racist doesn't apply to races only. It can be against any form of group.

 

 

 

In short, you're a fool.

 

 

 

Yeah? Well right back at ya!

 

 

 

And I'm telling "baseless lies" by saying Muhammed had seizures and displayed other signs of possession?

 

 

 

Dude, Muhammed isn't possessed by a demon. Tell that to all the other Muslims in this world and they'll say the same thing.

 

 

 

Muslims know this happened, and completely ignore the fact that Satan made Muhammed utter these things, meaning that Muhammed was not a prophet of God. No other prophet of God has ever uttered anything from Satan - they were protected by God himself from this.

 

 

 

Satan tempted Muhammed to say it, but Gabriel corrected him.

 

 

 

THAT is why Muslims LOVE to point out the fact that Muhammed was illiterate, because his illiteracy would make that impossible.

 

 

 

Muhammed was illiterate. Period.

 

 

 

And a threat from the Muslim poster! YAY! I care not if some extremist loser kills me, and I care not of your silly "out-cries".

 

 

 

Lol, was I threatening you? No. That outcry was due to the fact that what you're saying is BLASPHEMY.

 

 

 

Yet here are Muslims, saying the Bible is corrupted.

 

 

 

Well, yeah. The Bible is corrupted as it has been edited numerous times by humans. Little bit of editing, here. There. Looks like it never changed at all.

 

 

 

Muhammed is not a prophet of God, but a pawn of Satan.

 

which means Muhammed was - like all of us - touched by Satan, and a sinner.

 

Muslims are deceived greatly, and many of them know it but they do not care because they have an agenda

 

 

 

 

Yeah.... the crap that you've mentioned definitely counts as BLASPHEMY. If this leaked to the papers/media, it'll create a storm bigger than the "Teddy-bear" thing.

 

 

 

I'll give you one thing, though. Jews and Muslims are at war with each other, from the ancient times till now. Right now it's pretty much Palestine, Iran, Iraq versus Israel and the U.S.

 

 

 

Hey, you think Muslims are doing bad things against Jews. What you don't know is that Jews are doing bad things against Muslims too. You should go to Jerusalem, then you'll see Jews destroying mosques and killing Muslims.

 

 

 

On top of that, Jews use the Internet to create Islamic websites, thinking that they can fool us into believing what they wrote.

 

Such as:

 

http://www.answering-islam.org

 

http://www.thequran.com

 

http://www.thekoran.com/imk

 

 

 

Go to dictionary.com...Look up "racism". Tell me where you see that religion is bolstered under racism? You will see it no where, because it isn't racist to hate a religion. Hating a religion is like disagreeing with someone on ANYTHING in life. Your religion is an "idea". If I disagree with someone's idea, I'm a racist? Again - You're foolish. Grasping for straws only helps if you're making sense, my friend.

 

 

 

Inciting religious hatred? Please. Muslims are the only ones who incite religious hatred. They'll talk freely about Christians being corrupted idolaters (LOL! Muslims bow to a big black box in a city and go there to kiss a black meteorite! IDOLATRY ANYONE?!) just because they pray in front of a cross, and Jews being apes and pigs because the Qu'ran says they are...And those two groups basically just go "Umm, okay? Whatever.", but if one person in the group lashes out at Muslims (me, for example), they are "inciting religious hatred" and Muslims rally in the streets, whining and complaining and calling for heads to roll. If you don't want to be incited to hatred - IGNORE ME.

 

 

 

I'd ignore me if I were you. You've presented nothing to counter my arguments, you've just called me a "liar". You know what? I am presenting facts, you are presenting uneducated opinions. PERIOD.

 

 

 

Oh, and I'll talk about your religion all I wish, because people need to know it is a farce. If you don't want to believe in Judaism or Christianity or whatever, FINE! But do not fall for Islam's "peaceful religion" BS. If everyone in the world was a Muslim, every woman in the world would live in terror - and don't you think for a second that they wouldn't. The Qu'ran says you can beat your wives, and in Eastern countries - they take it much farther than a slap on the head for discipline. They BEAT their wives and treat them like dogs. And the women stay with them because they believe it to be Allah's will. Ridiculous. And how many women would get lashings for being raped if the whole world were Muslims? All of them? Apparently, according to Islamic law, if a woman is raped, it is her fault for not covering up enough! STUUUUPIDITY!

 

 

 

"Religist" isn't a word, by the way. Lol.

 

 

 

Again, you bring no argument. I say Muhammed may have been possessed by a demon, you say "Dude, no he wasn't." Umm, prove it? Of COURSE all other Muslims in the world will say he was not, but if you want to play a biased numbers game - Ask all the Christians! There are more Christians, and they'll say that he WAS! Oh dear, what now? If you're going to try to disprove my claims, BACK THEM UP. You said Muhammed's heart was cleansed by Allah so that he could not be touched by Satan, but then Satan made him utter things? HELLO? Dude, contradiction in the QU'RAN!!

 

 

 

And yes, I know you love to say how illiterate Muhammed was. It's actually the strongest argument for Islam - which is REALLY sad. It's just too bad that he surrounded himself with people who WERE literate. Whoops. Is it any wonder why the Qu'ran and Bible are so similar as far as the Old Testament goes? It isn't because Muhammed was a prophet, it's because Muhammed was a THIEF. He stole the Qu'ran from the Jewish Torah, and please don't say that is impossible, because Jews were living in Mecca at the time, and all over the freakin' place. It's possible. It's also possible that Christians were there too, in fact I'm sure they were...And he heard of the Trinity and of Jesus being the savior and he didn't get it, so he made up his own religion. TO THIS DAY Muslims do not "get" the Trinity. They do not understand it. That is why they do not believe it. Look up any Muslim speaking about it. "It just doesn't make sense" is what you will hear. IT ISN'T THAT COMPLICATED, PEOPLE!

 

 

 

...But, good for Christians, the Trinity doesn't even have to be CORRECT in order for Jesus to be Lord and Savior. Ever heard of Jehovah's Witnesses? Many Christians call them a "cult" because they don't believe in the Trinity. See, though? They still accept Jesus and Lord and Savior, they just don't accept him as literally God in the flesh.

 

 

 

Which is it? I don't know, not the point - the point is that Muslims are ignorant of the Trinity and of Jesus. They deny Jesus ever DIED. Are you kidding me? This is WELL DOCUMENTED BY THE ROMANS. Ugh. More Satan deceiving people. If you deny Jesus' death, you are denying Jesus' sacrifice, and thus denying Jesus as Lord. YOU ARE DECEIVED. The Torah even speaks of the Messiah being killed and that they would "pierce his side" and that his heel would be bruised and that his sacrifice would crush Satan's head - which it will, in due time. Or maybe it already has in a non-literal sense, I don't know, lol. But any any rate - WOW. That is just how Jesus died.

 

 

 

Jews are also deceived. They believe that Jesus was not the Messiah even though he fulfilled something like 300 prophecies. Why do they deny him? because a few were not fulfilled, like world peace...Umm, hello...When Jesus returns, world peace is promised. Geeez, Jews are being silly too. The Torah says that when the Messiah dies, Solomon's Temple will be destroyed. It was destroyed, so, it's either Jesus, or it's NO ONE.

 

 

 

What I'm saying is Blasphemy? To whom? You? Well, that's fine and dandy, but I do not acknowledge the Qu'ran as anything but lies. I am not being blasphemous, YOU ARE. That's fine, though, because if the Bible is true, then when Jesus comes back, you will bow to him like everyone else. And make no mistake! You cannot deny the Bible and say the Qu'ran is truth. It's either the Bible or nothing. There are SO MANY Biblical passages that warn of the Qu'ran, warn of false prophets, and say very simply, "This is the word of God, I will never change it. Ever. This is it. Boom. Done."

 

 

 

Yet you deny the Bible like a fool? DUDE, look up the DEAD SEA SCROLLS. They were found and PROVED that the Bible hadn't been changed. Yes, there are certain versions TODAY that have been changed a bit (numbers of X or Y thing, etc), but no Christian worth their salt acknowledges them. They're as fake to us as the Qu'ran. The King James Version is the one that hasn't been changed. The Dead Sea Scrolls were made before 100 AD, AKA, they were made VERY close to Jesus' death, AKA, the Bible today coincides with the Dead Sea Scrolls - IT IS NOT CORRUPTED. Your Imam LIED to you, as have ALL Muslims been lied to and are lying when they say it is! WE HAVE PROOF THAT IT IS NOT CORRUPTED. PERIOD.

 

 

 

However, the Qu'ran is different! They were doing construction on a Mosque somewhere and found the Qu'ran, which was different from today's, and they found statues of "Allah" which coincide with the "Moon God" from the Pagan Meccan days! OH SNAP.

 

 

 

But of course, you'll deny those completely, right? Even though they're both well documented? I'm sure you will. The Bible says those who disbelieve will be willingly ignorant, and you are willingly ignorant...It's almost like I don't NEED faith, because you're proving the Bible to me, Lol.

 

 

 

Also, I am aware jews do bad things to Muslims. I am not a wacked-out Zionist, I do acknowledge these things. However, Muslims started this all thousands of years ago - you can't make Muslims out to be an innocent party here.

 

 

 

Jews use the internet to create anti-Islamic websites? Well, I'm sure some may do that...But Muslims do it to Jews as well, so what is your POINT? Stop trying to make Muslims look like victims. You and I both know they are not victims. Also, who the hell said those websites are run by Jews? Your hatred of Jews is showing now! Blaming everything on the Jews, I see. Just like any Muslims or White Supremacist does. Nicely done, my friend.

 

 

 

I am part Jewish, and you're not even able to defend against what I am saying, because you cannot make my facts look like lies when you can find these facts ANYWHERE. Saying "That is a lie." and not backing it up IS NOT convincing to anyone. So, how does it feel to have a Jew spreading the word about your false religion? Bet that sucks, huh...Oh well.

 

 

 

Maybe you can pray to your Moon God to smite me...But...Since Islam is a religion of Satan...That would mean that Satan would have to harm me...And he can't, because I know Jesus is Lord, and Satan can't touch me! BAWWWWWW. Poor baby.

 

 

 

Hebrew FUN FACT! - The Hebrew for "Curse" is "Alah". ;)

[Schmo0zle]

Don't you think it's blasphemy to the jews when you show them how inaccurate "their" religion is? After all, they have the Talmud, you have the Koran. It's just your word against theirs.

 

 

 

Yeah. Tell that to Schmo0zle here. That's what he had been implying as well. If I knew any better you should have said the same thing to him in the first place. Talk about a one-sided Mod....

 

 

 

There is a difference between you and I, though...I am backing up my claims, you are not. I am speaking the truth, you are lying.

 

 

 

Therefore, I am "being blasphemous" against a false religion, while you're being blasphemous against a potentially true one. It's either Atheism or Christianity, really...There is no other viable alternative. Islam shouldn't mean "Submitting to God", it should mean "Lying to the masses" if you ask me, lol.

 

 

 

But go ahead - debunk the Jewish lies coming from Schmo0zle!

[Schmo0zle]

I'll throw out one to BlueLancer real quick...

 

 

 

Those quotes are completely accurate, and yes, they both incite hatred.

 

 

 

HOWEVER!

 

 

 

There is one big difference between Islam and Christianity.

 

 

 

Islam has no new covenant to stop these things - They are still supposed to be doing them.

 

 

 

Christianity, however, had a new covenant. Forgive me, I'm not a Biblical scholar so I can't find exact quotes right now, but it was...Mark I think? I don't remember, anyways, unimportant, the MESSAGE is, however...Whoever it was, was talking in the Bible about how after Jesus came, a new covenant was made and all of those stupid things in the Torah were no longer viable. We didn't have to do them anymore. And even if there is no God, and religion is all a big farce, you have to say thank God for that one, because if it wasn't changed, the world could be DRASTICALLY different today. Finding your wife sleeping with another man would mean your wifes' death. Your child speaking against you? Death, and Lol, Lord knows I'd be dead then. :P

 

 

 

Anyways...If you believe in religion or do not, it matters not...My point is that Islam's atrocities still stand firm, and are practiced in most Islamic countries. I'd like to say ALL Islamic countries, but there is bound to be one that isn't too fond of it, lol. However, no one practices the things in the Torah anymore. Not even the Jews, who do not believe in this new covenant...Which begs the question - Did they stop, or did God stop them? Who knows, I guess?

 

 

 

I will stand by it for the rest of my life that even if - down the road - I do not believe in religion, I will always believe that Islam is the biggest farce in history, and you almost cannot help calling it a religion of Satan even if you don't believe Satan exists, lol.

 

 

 

It may shock a few of you, but I am not what most people would consider a "Christian". I have tried to be in the past, and failed. Just like Peter in the Bible, I've denied Jesus 3 times myself. Once, then picked up religion, then again a denial, then picked it up again, and again - denied him. I'm in a place right now where I wish I could pick it up, but I fear I'll only deny him again and again, so...I believe what the Bible says MAY very well be true, but I am currently not calling myself a Christian. :P

[wildernessfreelancer]

Can you believe this guy? He's like a part-Jew saying that Islam is a religion of Satan and that it's either the Bible or nothing. Come on, you're taking this WAY too personally. It's like you're spreading [cabbage] propaganda. For what? So that some idiots might actually BELIEVE you and they'll hate Islam, just like you? Answer me this: WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? You think Islam is wrong. So? You want to take some idiots with you and they'll believe in your ideas? Man, you're trying to screw things up around here. Pretty badly.

[Schmo0zle]

Can you believe this guy? He's like a part-Jew saying that Islam is a religion of Satan and that it's either the Bible or nothing. Come on, you're taking this WAY too personally. It's like you're spreading [cabbage] propaganda. For what? So that some idiots might actually BELIEVE you and they'll hate Islam, just like you? Answer me this: WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? You think Islam is wrong. So? You want to take some idiots with you and they'll believe in your ideas? Man, you're trying to screw things up around here. Pretty badly.

 

 

 

How am I trying to screw anything up? Ohhhhh! You mean I'm taking some people to Hell with my Jewish, ape-like self?

 

 

 

I like how the SECOND I say I'm part Jewish, you jump on it as if it's something to attack. Well, my point has clearly been proven!

 

 

 

I'm not taking this personally, I'm taking it just how it should be taken. Islam is a lie, and I'm trying to make people see WHY it is a lie. If they want to believe it, that is fine, but they are ignorant. You can't just say "the Bible is corrupted." and have that be it. PROVE IT, SIR! The Qu'ran saying it is IS NOT PROOF. Lucky for us, we have proof that it ISN'T corrupted and that the Qu'ran IS corrupted. Sucks for you.

 

 

 

What is my problem? My problem is that Islam is ridiculous and slandering the religion of a God they call their own. Islam is NOT the religion of the God of Abraham, fool. IT CANNOT BE. It is 100% impossible (for the numerous reasons I've already stated, AND MORE), which is why I've always said Islam's biggest mistake was associating itself with the God of Abraham - or trying to, anyways.

 

 

 

Muhammed was an Ishmaelite. Call God racist if you wish, but he did not have Ishmaelite prophets. They were ALL Israelites. Every single one. That is why (or because, rather) Jews are said to be God's chosen people.

[BlueLancer]

 

Therefore, I am "being blasphemous" against a false religion, while you're being blasphemous against a potentially true one. It's either Atheism or Christianity, really...There is no other viable alternative. Islam shouldn't mean "Submitting to God", it should mean "Lying to the masses" if you ask me, lol.

 

 

 

That's borderline flamebaiting, that's quite an insult to believers of other religions who make up most of the world's population (as opposed to about 20-25% of the world being christian).

 

 

 

Atheism isn't even a religion, so that can be discarded as a discussable item... How exactly is christianity a more viable alternative than, say, Buddhism or Hinduism?

 

 

 

The entire premise of christianity is based on Jesus being a divine person, prophet, messenger, instead of a normal human, just as believing Gautama Buddha became a God when he was enlightened by days of meditating starved in the wilderness (nice similarity to the Jesus in the desert story BTW)

 

 

 

Call God racist if you wish, but he did not have Ishmaelite prophets. They were ALL Israelites. Every single one. That is why (or because, rather) Jews are said to be God's chosen people.

 

 

 

And your source for this is either the Talmud or the Bible, how are those any more reliable sources than the Koran? Assuming 'age' means truthfulness, why don't you accept the ancient Egyptian or Roman gods as true gods because they were worshipped thousands of years before judaism or christianity?

 

 

 

According to your belief, God had "prophets" (that's assuming a God exists in the first place). Only your holy book says holy people were Israelites. How is it not just your word against his, when those books and "eyewitness" accounts were written by ordinary men?

 

 

 

You're defeating your own logic, you stated this:

 

 

 

You can't just say "the Bible is corrupted." and have that be it. PROVE IT, SIR! The Qu'ran saying it is IS NOT PROOF.

 

 

 

Likewise, the Bible saying something is not proof. Proof requires reliable evidence and plausibility. Some hundreds of people 'apparently' having seen supernatural things performed by Jesus is barely "proof". Those events were recorded by humans, how can you know for sure they saw Jesus walking on water?

 

 

 

People have lied about bigger things in history... Kings themselves have claimed to seen dragons, explorers have claimed to seen gigantic sea monsters, what's so spectacular about claiming a man could turn water into wine, heal sick people or walk on water?

[insane]

They both view the books from a purely objective viewpoint, they have no inaccuracies whatsoever.

 

 

 

Unless skepticsannoted has changed alot since I last visited, that place is a joke, and hardly objective.

[Schmo0zle]

They both view the books from a purely objective viewpoint, they have no inaccuracies whatsoever.

 

 

 

Unless skepticsannoted has changed alot since I last visited, that place is a joke, and hardly objective.

 

 

 

Indeed it is. It's written by...Well, skeptics, and they show that very well. The first time I read that site, I did not consider myself remotely Christian, but I also didn't consider myself an atheist. I read the first 10 or 11 chapters of Genesis on that site and every single claim they make against the quotes in the Bible could easily be debunked by anyone familiar with the Bible, AKA, those guys were just trying to make it look bad, and their childishness and lack of knowledge really showed through.

 

 

 

As for you, BlueLancer - How much do you know of the Qu'ran? The Qu'ran, and Muslims with it, are claiming that Muhammed was the final prophet of the God of the Jews, Yahweh/Jehovah, YHWH, whatever you wish to call him. They call him the "God of Abraham" when referring to the connection.

 

 

 

SO! If the Qu'ran claims to be associated with the Torah or the Bible (not the Talmud - from what I understand, that was written later by Jews and is full of ridiculousness, though I have admittedly never read it), then we CAN use the whatever the Torah and Bible says to disprove it. This is countered by Muslims who simply say "The Bible is corrupted.", HOWEVER, in 1947-1953, the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, and they show the Bible to be 100% accurate to what it was 2000 years ago. 100%. Nothing has changed. Therefore, we KNOW that the "The Bible is corrupted" claim is false. Futhermore, Muslims claim that the Qu'ran has never, ever been changed in 1500 years or whatever since it came about...We know this, too, to be false. The Qu'ran HAS changed and you can google that fact and find it whenever you'd like to.

 

 

 

So, in short...

 

 

 

1) The Qu'ran is claiming to be futher (correcting) revelation from the God of the Torah and Bible.

 

2) God's revelation ended with Jesus. Muslims deny this by saying the Bible is corrupted.

 

3) The Bible has NEVER been corrupted - FACT.

 

4) Muslims ignore this and continue to say it is - Because if they acknowledge it, their religion means nothing.

 

5) Islam is therefore not viable, and you can call it flame-baiting if you wish, but I'm not looking to make anyone mad, I'm just stating facts. Go ahead and check 'em if you'd like!

 

 

 

So, since Islam is not viable, I am not being blasphemous as he says. He can THINK I am and thus be all offended, but his anger is in vain.

 

 

 

But I know where you're coming from - Everyone has a right to their religion, etc etc etc...But the thing is, he is calling Christianity a great big lie himself JUST by being a Muslim. You will *never* find a Muslim on this Earth that will say "Naw, man, Christianity is just another belief, that's your right!" because if Christianity is viable, their religion is TOAST.

 

 

 

I'm sure you haven't done a ton of research on the subject, so hopefully my insight has given you a little more knowledge. I'm fully aware that modern society tells you that I'm being an [wagon] right now, but I'm really not trying to be.

[NorthernHero]

You perceive pre-marital sex to be a "good" thing. Statistics show it is not. Yea, it feels good, blah de blah, but that doesn't make it good. That is lustful, so...Yea.

 

 

 

I don't know what else to say, you're one of those people who are anti-religion because it hinders your desires, those people usually label themselves "Satanists". Not that you worship Satan, of course, it's just what they call themselves, lol.

 

You kind of missed my point. What I tryed to say was that cristian heaven sounds impossible and quite funny to me. You said everything in heaven is perfect. Now, that must mean perfect by terms of bible, you can't even think of dirty thoughts.. Sounds like turning into mindless robots to me. The whole consept of people would change so radically that its hard to believe. And what would u guys do there? Talk with jesus 4000 years? What about next 4000 years?

 

You would get very bored hanging around with you boring allmighty god to be honest. Even if you were in love with him so much (which I dont get by the way at all, how can you worship such a spychopat..) Just think about it.

[assassin_696]

Repeat ad infinitum...

[venomai]

I somewhat agree with NorthernHero. Heaven would be very boring after a while. What's more, the lineups to talk to God would be HUGE. :x

 

 

 

Repeat ad infinitum...

 

What/who are you referring to?

[Schmo0zle]

You perceive pre-marital sex to be a "good" thing. Statistics show it is not. Yea, it feels good, blah de blah, but that doesn't make it good. That is lustful, so...Yea.

 

 

 

I don't know what else to say, you're one of those people who are anti-religion because it hinders your desires, those people usually label themselves "Satanists". Not that you worship Satan, of course, it's just what they call themselves, lol.

 

You kind of missed my point. What I tryed to say was that cristian heaven sounds impossible and quite funny to me. You said everything in heaven is perfect. Now, that must mean perfect by terms of bible, you can't even think of dirty thoughts.. Sounds like turning into mindless robots to me. The whole consept of people would change so radically that its hard to believe. And what would u guys do there? Talk with jesus 4000 years? What about next 4000 years?

 

You would get very bored hanging around with you boring allmighty god to be honest. Even if you were in love with him so much (which I dont get by the way at all, how can you worship such a spychopat..) Just think about it.

 

 

 

You referring to Jesus as a "psychopath" shows your obvious DESIRE to not comprehend. Furthermore, just because it doesn't make sense to you at the moment does not mean it is not true. That attitude is what has gotten Muslims in trouble by denying the Trinity because it just "doesn't make sense" to them!

 

 

 

Tell me, what do you believe? Evolution? And there was never a time when it didn't make sense to you? I call BS.

 

 

 

You fail to understand the concept of a "perfect world". Those who accept Jesus will not be living in Heaven, sitting around and talking to Jesus for eternity - though I'm sure a lot of Christians would love to do that. I personally would love to talk to Jesus for a while. Anyways, the perfect world means everything is restored to what it was originally, and what is is supposed to be like...In other words, there is no lying, because people don't THINK to lie. They don't need to because they do no wrong. They don't kill because they don't have to - they are too happy. They don't steal because God provides everything you want.

 

 

 

What you're saying is basically, "I like sex, drinking, partying (insert thing that likely isn't good for you here), and if I couldn't do it, I would miss it! So I don't even WANT to go to Heaven!"...Well, good for you then. You have somewhere between 0 and 120-ish years to do as much self-pleasing things as you can, then! But Christians, in the mean-time, can do whatever they like as well, and then, when it comes down to the end, they get to do it FOREVER. You see, it isn't that Christians are oppressing themselves from living life, it's that they don't WANT to live your life-style.

 

 

 

A life of sex, drinking, drugs and stupidity is...Well, stupid. Even when I didn't believe in God, I wanted nothing to do with these things because they bring nothing but trouble in the long-run. Go ahead, drink and have sex with random partners! Come back and tell me how your liver feels when you have Sclerosis of the liver from alcohol and Hepatitis C! Tell me how AIDS is treating you! Tell me how that Herpes outbreak is going! Tell me how your illegitimate children are!

 

 

 

...Of course, you'll say "Ha! Fool! This doesn't happen to everyone!", and of course, you're right, it does not. But it potentially can, and saying, "It won't happen to me!" is not the sign of a wise man. "It won't happen to me!" is what usually lets it happen!

 

 

 

So, go ahead, have your 100 years (give or take...probably take!) of abundance and bad choices and call it "living life". In the mean while, I'll be living life...Over here...Not doing stupid things...Being JUST as happy and fulfilled as you are.

 

 

 

You see, that's the grand misconception - that religious people aren't having as much "fun". Trust me, we're having plenty. ;)

 

 

 

And no, I will not get bored hanging out with God. I'll have plenty of other things to do. Who knows what will be goin' on...Perhaps we'll get to sit around and play a video game of our own design! Or drive a car of our own design! Or perhaps it'll be just like now, only PERFECT.

 

 

 

Another misconception is that Christians will sit in Heaven forever...This is not the case. Earth will be restored to it's former glory, and we will live there in perfect harmony with none of this bad crap going on. No Muslims threatening to behead us, no wars, no violence, just living as we would now, only better. Much better. Perfect.

[Ricky_Hatton]

Joe... just stop now please. You are giving us Atheists a bad name....

 

 

 

 

 

No mate thats you hair ;-)

[venomai]

...Of course, you'll say "Ha! Fool! This doesn't happen to everyone!", and of course, you're right, it does not. But it potentially can, and saying, "It won't happen to me!" is not the sign of a wise man. "It won't happen to me!" is what usually lets it happen!

 

Are you saying that a wise man will never do anything potentially harmful in his life? Don't walk next to a tall building -- falling ice may hit you. Don't go on a roller coaster -- it might derail. Don't play a sport -- you may injure yourself. Don't drive in a car -- you may crash.

 

There's a fine line between being wise and being paranoid.

 

 

 

A life of sex, drinking, drugs and stupidity is...Well, stupid.

 

I disagree. These things are not stupid, they are merely abused/mistreated by "stupid" people who do not have good judgement.

 

 

 

Partying - Dancing, talking and socializing with other humans is not at all stupid and is rarely ever physically harmful.

 

Drinking - Alcohol is not a "stupid" drug. In fact, light to moderate drinking has shown to increase IQ and reduce risk of cancers and cardiac events.[1][2][3]

 

Drugs - Most drugs are not "stupid". Medicinal drugs are extremely useful and can often help cure you of sickness/disease. Recreational drugs can be used responsibly as a mind-expansion tool and also allow you to experience an altered state of mind, which is often a pleasing feeling. Soft drugs have shown to be less addicting than common substances such as caffeine.[4] These soft drugs are also extremely low in bodily harm (hence the name "soft"). Hard drugs are, of course, a different matter, but, aside from alcohol, these are not generally substances used by those wishing to live life to the fullest.

 

 

 

These things, when used responsibly, can make you "feel good" and can also benefit your physical and social abilities. Of course, abuse of these activities can lead to future problems, but by abusing substances and living doped up all the time you are not living life to the fullest.

 

 

 

I would love to ask, have you ever responsibly tried soft drugs, partying or drinking? Or are you just assuming that they are "teh badz", as you so aptly put it.

[assassin_696]

Repeat ad infinitum...

 

What/who are you referring to?

 

 

 

This debate, I'm thinking of applying for a patent for finding a perpetual source of hot air.

 

 

 

Not you though.