Why I'm unsubscribing (though I still may play)

[Lime_Mercury]

A number of people were very surprised to see me unsubscribe from RS, and were also curious to the nature of my action, really, why unsubscribe from a game I've played for 5 and a half years and been a member for 80 percent of that time..

 

 

 

To understand my complaints, you'd have to put yourself in my shoes and see how these most recent changes affected me. I'm level 120 combat, mid 1700 skill total, a fairly well-rounded character, but not one that's especially significant, there are people who've been playing for a third of my time and are far past me (Damn that slow RSC training, lol).

 

 

 

A good portion of my ingame time is spent in combat or minigames, or leveling whatever skill I feel compelled to level when I log on, or whichever will serve me purpose when I'm treasure hunting (read GWD, metal dragons, clues, etc). If I feel compelled to focus a skill, I tune my bank towards that, and as a result, I have a lot of free bank space. I'm not a packrat by any means.

 

 

 

This also means that I collect a lot of items that I will occasionally clean out my bank to sell, and hunt down buyers for barrows and blood runes, and alch other things when the time comes. I don't usually keep a lot of cash on hand unless I'm buying supplies or investing in something. I also don't buy skills.

 

 

 

Several of my close friends also play this way. What that means is that if I'm killing metal dragons with mage and I'm not really training combat, my whip and veracs might be lent out for weeks at a time with no concern about when I'm going to get it back. I'm not an uptight pc product (and forgive my slurs on the class of players I tar here) that's going to slash my wrists if my Ahrim's top goes missing.

 

 

 

I've got great high leveled friends, two first page herblorists, 90+ smiths, cooks, all whose services I can tap into because, quite frankly, they want the xp, and they know I won't take any more than I give in return, whether it's items, just hanging around, or accompanying them to places where they're not adept at going alone (like barrows or GWD). My bank's a lot like water, things come, things go. I'm at that stage of character where nothing is truly a grind unless I've already signed on and want to do it.

 

 

 

When the trade modifications were announced to be introduced, I thought to myself, "this is just silly, this does nothing to improve the way I play the game". People can say what they want about getting rid of RWITers, what negative overall consequences the updates might have, those are all for other, more heady threads. I used to write many of those threads back in the early days of RS. Now I focus on people, the way they behave, what they do and why they do it. Numbers, big picture, not so important.

 

 

 

Everyone has stories to tell. I'm a veteran, I do too. Being a veteran, being a loyal supporter of RuneScape, even now I suppose, being a player moderator, I've pitched in, aiming to make the game one that I want to play, where I have a say in what RuneScape should be like, if only because I've been playing long enough to develop the vision alongside both my peers and the staff of this game.

 

 

 

I've been fortunate to tug the sleeves of staff and introduce ideas and thoughts. Hell, I bet you could have never guessed that I'm the person behind both the Ghostly Robes/Shadow Sword miniquests and the spinning dragon plates that were released a couple of Aprils ago. Ask me, I'll tell you the story!

 

 

 

I'm also the person whose relentless pursuit of the earliest RWITing ensured that the notion of disallowing such jumped from just the Terms and Conditions of Runescape to actually becoming a rule! Ask me, I'll tell you THAT story too! I suppose it's ironic, the one thing that made me most known and close to Jagex staff is the reason that I'm unsubscribing from their game. I should be more understanding, I suppose, but I'm not.

 

 

 

It's that the magnitude of this update and its direct influence on how I should be playing, or rather how I'm told to be playing, makes me upset. It's telling me I have to pinch pennies, and that Tammy can't charge me 6k for each pray pot instead of 8, because it might be an unbalanced trade and that one of us might be real world trading for it. It also means I can't combine with my two dearest friends for Kree'ara trips, one supplying bolts, one supplying pots, one supplying knives and grapples, alching the drops, splitting the loot, Taylor giving me 200 mith bars to smith when I get on and he's not, and so one of us doesn't have to stand around and assist the other. These are the things I enjoy most of all, having friends I trust that trust me. It's that the trade updates say that I'm going to have to completely rethink the way I treat my possessions.

 

 

 

The same's true for me in real life. If someone has one of my books for a few months, I'm not bugged, unless I absolutely need it, and I know my friends well enough to also know if that's the case, then I'll get it back. I liked my choice, I liked those freedoms.

 

 

 

Tammy's not bugged if I take 100 pray pots dirt cheap, she knows that I'm going to give her a few hundred herb seeds when I collect them. My friends and I, we share what we have, we don't trade it.

 

 

 

I suppose all this goes to show that the update's made me pretty unhappy from a technical standpoint, it's upsetting. Couple this with my continued loyalty to my own vision of the game, and you can also see why I'm tweaked on a personal level.

 

 

 

It's that Jagex, and the staff so enamored with the idea of trade control, got themselves so wound up in what might very well be the worst case of "groupthink" I've ever encountered in my LIFE, completely forgot that there were players, customers, like myself that played in such a manner. Or, even worse, if they DID think about it, they decided it was a more profitable move to attend to other sorts of players, with so little regard to my own that they didn't bother to adapt the updates to fit us before we all decided we were going to unsubscribe. Hell, they may never address concerns from players like myself. I don't know what goes on in the Jagex offices anymore. I've been out of touch with Mark O. for months. So when I unsubscribed and stated my reason as unsatisfactory customer support, that's what I mean.

 

 

 

Perhaps if in the future, RuneScape is updated into a game I wish to pay for again, then I'll continue paying them. For now, they won't be counting on my monetary support to make that game. And while I'm only one person, one five dollars, I can at least say I know why I'm quitting, and that it feels pretty good to have played my own vision to its current end.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Lime Mercury

[xpandax]

Your honesty is refreshing. I play in a similar fashion as you do. I have played since before the mask drops, i've seen the game change and overall its been a great ride. The only enjoyment i get from this game is playing with and sharing with my real life, and a few close in game friends. I don't even know what to do when i log on anymore, I can't share a nights worth of pking with my closest friends. None of us need the money from pking, and often we would lose money, but it was about the time spent together, the laughs, the good times, the stories about that one time......

 

 

 

I respect you alot for this lime mercury.

 

 

 

A standing ovation for an important player to this game, and a fellow veteran. =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

[Arcticrunite]

You know ive agreed with you in just about everything youve done. I couldnt agree more with that youve said. I might stick around for the first month or so to see how it is, but my rs future hinges on it.

 

 

 

Ah well, no more crayola, no more pits, no more clues. Lame :/

 

 

 

Meh, find another game we can dominate in and have people take the 6am elevated train.

[Yohbilleh]

Tammy's not bugged if I take 100 pray pots dirt cheap, she knows that I'm going to give her a few hundred herb seeds when I collect them. My friends and I, we share what we have, we don't trade it.

 

 

 

Thats one of my biggest problems here. My friend needs alot of guidance in this game so when we do a boss monster I give him the resources do to it and he gives me some runes when I go to barrows with him or something..

 

 

 

Seriously, has JaGeX shut themselves from the world long enough to forget about how friendship works?

[highlanders]

It's always sad when a veterants quits the game, a little piece of history gone. Good luck in your future.

[Ghost-Knigth]

^^ truely right.

 

 

 

Sad to see another loyal old-schooler gone. Nice story too, and I agree 100% with you.

 

 

 

Good luck in the future. :)

[meili]

Great post. I guess I don't have much to say since everything has already been said but I hope Jagex will rethink some of the updates...that's probably not going to happen though.

 

 

 

Good luck with whatever you will do next.

[deep_pain]

Great post, I'm still hanging on the thread that some changes may be made, A lot of J-mods were around outside BH on release, they were supposedly taking notes about what people were unhappy about, there is a post on the Runescape forums with 40k replies and numerous posts with between them what must be 100k replies, yet not a single word has come from them about their customers concerns.

 

 

 

Am I wrong in thinking that the forums are still members only? that those 10's of thousands of complaints are all from paying subscribers? It seems wrong, if they were any other form of company it wouldn't be acceptable to not even acknowledge those complaints. All I have seen from Jagex is silence.

 

 

 

I might be wrong I have certainly been wrong in the past, I was the first to tell merchants to stop crying when the G.E came out, because I personally made a lot of profit out of G.E. and could see very profitable ways of merchanting. I thought they lacked the vision to make money from the exchange if they couldn't see the people desperate for money selling much cheaper than the exchange, standing right outside the exchange, I thought they must have vision problems, but with a 3k either way limit on all trades outside of the exchange in future, I couldn't have been more wrong.

 

 

 

I was also the first to dismiss posts saying that PKing would die, before the update was made, I didn't in my wildest dreams think Jagex would end solo PKing outright with their latest update. Again I was wrong.

 

 

 

I was also the first to dismiss people complaining about the duel arena changes, thinking well surely any good staker can still make a profit of millions per day PKing. Again I was wrong.

 

 

 

Lots of people agreed with me, and I may have made stunning points and have made people believe I was right, but when the updates rolled out, how wrong I was.

 

 

 

I apologise to all those people, because now I find myself after 6 years looking for a reason to keep playing.

 

 

 

You're post is extremely well written and hard to argue with. I hope maybe that some of the people who do not see the downsides of the latest and future updates will read this post, because it says in clear terms what other people with simular feelings may not be able to put into words so well.

[Ezz]

Great post, I couldn't agree more.

[raylifes]

I must say, your style of playing sounds very nice, I should have tried something like that when I still played, sadly I was always focusing too much on money. :(

 

 

 

It's a shame you're stopping with runescape, please be sure to visit tif once in a while.

[Embraced]

Of all the things Jagex have done and we have put up with. This new trade update is possibly the last straw for many of us.

 

Trading is such a big thing in runescape and i cannot believe they are going to do this.

[Rock Hard]

You're right. 100% right.

 

 

 

However, Jadex had to make a move. They HAD to, else they risked losing everything.

 

 

 

Hopefully now they can focus on fixing all the problems the have made, while keeping the RWT'ers at bay...

[Arcticrunite]

You're right. 100% right.

 

 

 

However, Jadex had to make a move. They HAD to, else they risked losing everything.

 

 

 

Hopefully now they can focus on fixing all the problems the have made, while keeping the RWT'ers at bay...

 

 

 

But see, theyve made too many mistakes enough to ruin the legitimate players, not everyone on rs is a RWT'er however with these new updates, it makes it seem as if everyone is. Theyve made too much of an impact to get back players. Im honestly shocked that anybody is still a member of this update. It's not worth paying the 5usd a month just to do nothing with friends. RS is a MMORPG, they took the MM out of it. Now its just a single player game. Not worth my 5usd every month.

 

 

 

All this update shows is that Jagex is paranoid and so self-conscious about making money that theyll do ANYTHING to stop a loss of money. It's sickening and disgusting and it just shows you that they dont care for their players.

[romu000]

I respect the veterans of us, their sight and the spirit they put in the game. I'm very admirative on this part of our group (of players). That is why i also tend to play more and more friendly even if it was becoming rare.

 

 

 

But let be honest. Things were going worse and worse. The way runescape was designed to be used has been altered in many ways along the passed monthes (years ?).

 

Those alterations borned from the freedom left to the players to use this design. Each merchant, pures, stalkers were using only a mastered part of the game. As it stayed in the game, there was no issues and no needs to change, and it remained tolerated.

 

 

 

But this alteration overpassed the simple gaming : it went into Real World ! RWTers, as good workers, exploited every possible holes to produce Real money from the game.

 

 

 

1/ Why ? There were 'alterated' enough players to pay IRL cash for pixel coins. Who honestly can create a game, make a business on it to make it viable and accept it ? who ?

 

2/ Runescape is (was) a game. The fee to be a member is here to make the game a working business. The reward is that you are able to use the game easier and with more pleasure. When the alteration hit the business that enable the game : a decision have to be taken.

 

 

 

That is why i aggree with Gidion :

 

However, Jadex had to make a move. They HAD to, else they risked losing everything.

 

 

 

Hopefully now they can focus on fixing all the problems the have made, while keeping the RWT'ers at bay...

 

 

 

And what if they lose eveything ? You do too (the game part of course) !

 

And what then : you let RWT win the match ?

 

 

 

Yes atm, many many players have left.

 

I completely understand the 'alterated' ones who used the game in the wrong way. Their loss is a matter we will be able to face. They were noumerous ? does it matter ? Many of them also were making the game less and less friendly.

 

 

 

I can understand newcomers and young players who went in during the 'alterated' times and thought it was the normal way of playing.

 

 

 

But i can't understand the veterans and adults with a sight...

 

Jagex moved and changed the game, bringing us back to the 'good old days' those veterans have known and loved. It was also the time the sharing spirit did born to face the rude game Runescape is in essence.

 

Since Jagex is still monitored by the same persons (and spirit), is it possible to let them a chance to find a way to restore the big lose of those updates (the friendly trades) ? Reading forum for ideas, and using their own possibilities can, i'm sure, bring a viable solution.

 

 

 

The CUT have been made with a wrong direction the game was taking... Let us see how Jagex will fight this goal : keep the RWT away and the friendly trade in. From this depend the 'new way of playing RS' : Solo or team...

[Dragonlordjl]

It's sad to see a fellow veteran go, but I know my days in this game are limited, too. Unless the game sees modifications to the 3k trade rule before February 12th, I am officially retiring from the game.

 

 

 

The trading update ruins my entire style of playing and makes me feel like I am not in control of my time I spend on my account. It decimates the economy and destroys the very important aspect of "player interaction."

 

 

 

Like you, I rely on friends for assistance with skills. I often trade my friends herb seeds for potions, because I detest both herblore and farming. I give them one seed for four potions, which is very fair. That won't happen anymore.

 

 

 

I do at least one God Wars run each day... That will stop after the TU. Not only will one not be able to use the most effective strategy of "funneling food towards the tanker," it will also be impossible to split drops. Their Lootshare thing is BS. No one will actually use it, because it's stupid to expect people to do 500 runs until everyone gets a hilt. Yet another example of backwards logic.

 

 

 

I sometimes have friends give me wild pies to go slay Dark Beasts for them, in hopes of netting them a Dark Bow. That won't happen anymore.

 

 

 

Many people in my clan hold small drop parties worth a few hundred K for seasonal events, as well as 99 cape parties. That definately won't happen anymore. People are FORCED to use that inherently stupid Party Room, in which half the server flocks to when they see the announcement of over 1m being dropped.

 

 

 

I have friends who also occasionally fletch bows and give those and natures to alch, in exchange for me giving them the money. They don't like alching, but they profit from making their own materials. I get free magic experience.... We are both happy. Gone.

 

 

 

Basically, the game is unplayable unless they make the trading rule more reasonable.

[123Yourgone]

Ive already told you on msn that i have also quit lime, but i thought id post here and say thanks for a well written post, you have really pointed out the worst aspect of this new update (Though id have quit from the wilderness update alone).

[Rock Hard]

You're right. 100% right.

 

 

 

However, Jadex had to make a move. They HAD to, else they risked losing everything.

 

 

 

Hopefully now they can focus on fixing all the problems the have made, while keeping the RWT'ers at bay...

 

 

 

But see, theyve made too many mistakes enough to ruin the legitimate players, not everyone on rs is a RWT'er however with these new updates, it makes it seem as if everyone is. Theyve made too much of an impact to get back players. Im honestly shocked that anybody is still a member of this update. It's not worth paying the 5usd a month just to do nothing with friends. RS is a MMORPG, they took the MM out of it. Now its just a single player game. Not worth my 5usd every month.

 

 

 

All this update shows is that Jagex is paranoid and so self-conscious about making money that theyll do ANYTHING to stop a loss of money. It's sickening and disgusting and it just shows you that they dont care for their players.

 

 

 

I know and agree. I've also canceled the subscription on accounts over 5 years old, this step destroyed everything I ever valued in RS.

 

 

 

But I can understand that the bankers told Jadex to fix the problem, so Jadex 'fixed' it. Not an excuse, but an understandable explanation.

[epeeflecher]

Wow.

[deep_pain]

You're right. 100% right.

 

 

 

However, Jadex had to make a move. They HAD to, else they risked losing everything.

 

 

 

Hopefully now they can focus on fixing all the problems the have made, while keeping the RWT'ers at bay...

 

 

 

I don't understand how they risked losing everything?

 

 

 

The market is pretty stable bots or not.

 

 

 

I don't agree with RWT, but every market has a saturation point, only so many people are going to buy RS gold, there could only ever have been a certain amount of bots to players. If there were too many gold sellers, there would have been no profit, the market in that way is like the old fox > rabbit stories.

 

 

 

It's not like it could ever have gotten to a stage where bots outnumbered real players.

 

 

 

They have 300 staff and the former CEO of paypal working for them, I bet they make a pretty profit. They are and have been hiring staff constantly for a long period, a company in trouble wouldn't be doing that.

 

 

 

Why if they are so good at detecting what these bots do and who they trade with as they say they are, why are they even banning the bots? Ban the buyers. Just have a daily counter on the front page showing how many players have been banned that day for buying gold, if they can see where the money is going that easily.

 

 

 

People buy gold because they know they can get away with it, if they thought they couldn't they wouldnt buy it, the bots risk nothing the players risk their accounts.

 

 

 

They've admitted they knew this update would upset people, yet they still went ahead and made it.. a war on RWT or a war on the fact someone else is making money from their game. As they said other games manage to deal with gold trading and most even make a profit out of it.

 

 

 

But they don't want to do that. Why? Because people other than them would still sell the gold.. they wouldnt make all the profit, so instead they ruin the game for a large percntage of their players.

 

 

 

As I said I don't agree with RWT, but they say they are so good at detecting the destination of this GP. Then ban the buyers, without buyers there will be no sellers.

 

 

 

I will support Jagex's fight against RWT if they supported their paying customers.

 

 

 

I hope they do some changes, not many just a few are needed, It would be totally unacceptable for any other company to not even acknowledge 40k complaints.

[ego_scorpion]

Your reasons are pretty much identical to mine for quitting. Very nice post. Trading is probably single biggest interaction for me in this game. Friends trading me stuff for the skills im training, me giving friends pots, sharks, etc, for their combat related adventures.

 

 

 

It wasnt trading to be exact, it was giving things to people that were close to you, people who you could trust and people that could trust you.

 

 

 

On top of that I am a skiller and I like to buy things to level my skills and make profit, but that will no longer be possible because jagex decided to tell me what I have to pay for items as opposed to me learning prices of eveyrthing all the time in order to get financial advantage and stay ahead.

[Rock Hard]

Deep_Pain, I really don't care about RWTers. Nor autoers tbh, I rarely skilled these days.

 

 

 

I talked about Jadex having to make this move, not because of the ingame economy, but because of the RL economy.

 

 

 

Mod Hobagoly says, "Real-world traders believe they are running legitimate businesses. In some cases, though, it's essentially organised crime." There is a whole industry built up around it exploiting cheap labour and involving illegal activities. The majority of bots that we ban from members have been paid for with stolen credit card numbers.

 

 

 

Such accounts don't earn us money, they cost us money in bank refund charges - money that could be better spent on creating new content for our players; money that could help us increase the level of support our players receive. Also, in the longer-term, if we had continued to experience these problems with account fraud, then it could have led to us no longer being able to accept credit card payments from legitimate players.

 

 

 

I read somewhere else about Jadex being told by the bank to fix the problem, or they would have trouble. I can't the quote, so I don't know if it's official or not. However I am just saying that I can understand Jadex's motives.

 

 

 

Understanding =//= Agreeing. They have fixed one problem which hardly impacted me, at the expense of everything I enjoyed in the game.

[deep_pain]

Deep_Pain, I really don't care about RWTers. Nor autoers tbh, I rarely skilled these days.

 

 

 

I talked about Jadex having to make this move, not because of the ingame economy, but because of the RL economy.

 

 

 

Nice skim read, the majority of my post was about RL economy, only if I remember the first line about in game economy, but oh well.

[Rock Hard]

 

Nice skim read, the majority of my post was about RL economy, only if I remember the first line about in game economy, but oh well.

 

 

 

Not the way I read your post, but that's beside the point.

 

 

 

Jadex have done this. And they have done this for reasons they see as valid.

 

 

 

It is their game to develop as they wish, if you don't like it, don't play it.

 

 

 

I don't, and I shan't.

 

 

 

If enough people vote with their feet, it will do a hellova lot more good than a bunch of complainers who continue to pay up.

[deep_pain]

 

Nice skim read, the majority of my post was about RL economy, only if I remember the first line about in game economy, but oh well.

 

 

 

Not the way I read your post, but that's beside the point.

 

 

 

Jadex have done this. And they have done this for reasons they see as valid.

 

 

 

It is their game to develop as they wish, if you don't like it, don't play it.

 

 

 

I don't, and I shan't.

 

 

 

If enough people vote with their feet, it will do a hellova lot more good than a bunch of complainers who continue to pay up.

 

 

 

I would answer some of your points. but well your post is of a different opinion to mine so I guess in your world it makes it beside the point. so I guess I won't bother.

[kieranread]

same here, got a friend whos got high farming, i would just give her any seeds i couldnt use, i never expect anything back now she forced to pay me. Its ridiculous