Are the UK's laws on alcohol causing problems?

[Futurama]

A thought just struck me; i've been told before that the country of Italy has almost no alcohol-related problems because people are taught how to drink from a young age, 24/7 drinking is in place, and what they do drink is cheap and readily available. Although the legal age in Italy is 16, this isn't really strictly enforced, and the Italians are known to drink on their front doorsteps with friends socially as part of a community.

 

 

 

Now think of the UK's problems relating to drink - Binge drinking, alcohol related violence, people drinking on the streets and causing trouble, loads admitted to hospital because of alcohol abuse (including myself and a friend another time.) What i'm wondering is, maybe the laws on alcohol in the UK are causing problems rather than solving them.

 

I am currently 18 years old and have been drinking since I was around 14. I'm not an alcoholic or anything, but I do enjoy drinking - the problem was that, before I was 18, if you couldn't find a house party or something, you ended up drinking on the streets, and that's where a lot of the trouble is. You can't get served for it yourself - someone else has to, and in your teenage years, you can't afford much - so people go for the strong, cheap stuff, like white cider and vodka. Talking from experience, I can tell you most of them drink as fast as they can to get as drunk as they can, and because they can't handle alcohol, they get into arguements. Then what? Fighting, loud argueing, bottles being thrown, police being called, all on public streets - then, the ever lenient police just break things up and carry on like nothing happened. This may not be the case everywhere, but it certainly is where I live. You can pretend the problem is not there, but it is, and it's not showing any signs of stopping.

 

This brings me to one of my main strifes with the alcohol laws in the UK - the stupid price of alcohol, and just how bloody hard it can be to get. As I said, i'm 18, so just legal to drink in the UK - this is great for me, because well, I enjoy drinking - but sometimes, it's a pain in the arse. My group of close friends consists of both people over and under 18 - but only just really. I have only found ONE bar in the surrounding 3 miles that we actually havn't been asked to leave. I'm not just talking bars, i'm talking family restaraunts, family pubs, and even the local bowling alley, all of which we had visited several times before we were asked to leave. Why? "Underage." One friday night we visited a resteraunt we used to go to a lot - they have never had any problem with us being there, being a family resteraunt. There have been times i've been drinking there and those with us underage havn't been, and once again, absolutley no problem - however, on this particular night, 8 of us sat down to a table in the half-empty resteraunt and were immediately asked to leave. We asked why, and they said "you're underage." After a load of bickering with the waitress about how can we be underage when it's a family pub and none of us even have a drink yet, we called the manager. She was rude, ignorant, and said if we don't leave the police will be called. What I don't understand is what we even did on this occasion and why we wern't allowed to stay in the resteraunt - we were ENTIRELY within the law. So what happened? We got some beer and headed off over a park to get wasted. Because there was nothing else to do.

 

My point is, how can they expect people not to drink anf vodka that costs ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã5 over in greece costs us ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã15 here. Why? Taxes. The government love to slap tax on alcohol because for all they're concerned they can get away with it - so that's why people reach for the cheap drink. At a pub by me, it costs ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã2.90 for a pint of strongbow cider. At that price, you can buy a 2 litre plastic bottle of the exact same brand from any local off license. What're you gonna do? Go over the park or stay on the streets with it. Thus, the problems begin again. My average night out at a pub costs me in excess of ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã25 - that's a LOT of money to spend on drinks. I honestly believe that if alcohol was cheaper, the poorer people who drink themselves stupid all of the time would have more money to live a better life, and some of the problems in poorer areas would stop.

 

 

 

I think we've got it all wrong when it comes to the laws on alcohol. Maybe if they were loosened a lot, people would in time learn to be more responsible with it, rather than treating it like a huge deal.

 

 

 

Anyway, that's just my two cents. Now tell me yours! :)

[warri0r45]

I don't know whether making alcohol cheaper would lower binge drinking. I think there's a cultural aspect to this - the Italy example was pretty striking. I mean, if you have parents that gradually bring you onto the drink and educate you and everyone else's parents do the same then the entire society is likely to go some way to being like Italy.

[1_man_army]

In my opinion it's not the law that is the problem it's our culture. We as a culture associate getting wasted (not just one or two drinks) with a great night out, which now and then is fair enough but for alot of people it's a regular thing.

 

 

 

Being able to drink alot is seen as a badge of honour. Think about it, how many times have you wound somebody up about not being able to hold their drink?

 

 

 

The Friday/Saturday night piss-up is just part of the routine nowadays. It's normal for people to get wasted every weekend and we've all become used to it. Sure, that leads to alot of other problems like violence and in the long term, liver disease but putting up the price of alcohol won't change that much in the long term. The government could put the legal limit up to 21 like in America but under-agers would still get drunk, it doesn't make a difference.

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I like a drink and have done for a long time. I like to relax with a drink and sometimes I like to get wasted just like a large proportion of our society. The difference is I know when I stop before I'm too much of a nuisance to myself and others (never been sick when drunk) but alot of people don't. They think they'll look soft or won't fit in if they don't. It's worse up here in Scotland. We're internationally known for our drinking, it affects our perception abroad as people associate us with drinking whiskey. I'm part Irish too, another group that has a reputation for liking a drink.

 

 

 

Anyway, the problem is how we view alcohol, that's the difference between us and the French, the Italians and the Spanish, not our laws but us. Until we change you'll see the same problems again and again.

[Lateralus]

I like the British drinking culture really. Of course it's really unhealthy, but I can't imagine it being any other way.

 

 

 

I would love a 25 quid pub bill as well incidentally. Generally I get a carry out beforehand and still bomb more than that!

[baron8000]

Personally I source the problem in the UK with our attitude to alcohol at a young age a comparative case study between say France and the UK will demonstrate this best.

 

 

 

In France, wine is commonplace and children from a young age (and I mean single digits) have it with meals, often watered down and maintain this as they grow older until eventually they can purchase it for themselves. By doing this they acquire not only a respect for alcohol but a taste for it, making them shun the god awful drinks that some of the youth in this country sup (trust me, I've tried them).

 

 

 

Contrast this with the UK, with most of my friends (and I guess the majority) their parents have forbidden them from alcohol completely until they are 18 - nothing, zip, nada. Invariably when they turn 18 they go insane as it is something new and special to them which they must indulge in furiously. As I was growing though I was introduced young - I was allowed wine (again, watered with lemonade, or should that be lemonaded down :lol: ) with a large meal, eventually drinking weak shandy and progressing to the responsible drinker I am today; and yes I do drink regularly (university life eh) and many different types (beer,cider,spirits etc).

 

 

 

Another thing I would blame is this new trend of fruit drinks - your bacardi breezers, your smirnoff ices etc (even worse are the killer cocktails). These things (apart from being foul) do not taste alcoholic at all, and can quite easily be swigged down like a soft drink on a warm day (a Uni bar example should suffice - a "dark pangra" - 2 shots of bacadi, 2 of vodka, 2 of archers, 1 of JD and 1 grenadine, served in a pint glass and topped up with lemonade and blackcurrent - doesn't taste alcoholic in the slightest). Most of the people I see drinking these tend to drink them with the sole purpose of getting drunk and I don't think they would do so if they had to drink the spirit neat/mixed and actually taste the drink (most of the time I don't think they'd actually like it if they could taste it :lol: ).

[Futurama]

On the contrary, the french are worse than us for underage drinking problems, hahah. But yeah I see your point, just should have picked a different country ;)

[tryto]

Or maybe in Italy they spend all the time drinking their wonderful expressos and cappucinos.

[baron8000]

On the contrary, the french are worse than us for underage drinking problems, hahah. But yeah I see your point, just should have picked a different country ;)

 

 

 

O Rly?

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT - no it didn't work, pic put in instead

 

 

 

source http://camy.org/factsheets/index.php?FactsheetID=5

[venomai]

On the contrary, the french are worse than us for underage drinking problems, hahah. But yeah I see your point, just should have picked a different country ;)

 

Care to show sources for that?

 

 

 

I think adopting a more relaxed cultural sentiment towards (responsible) young drinking can really help improve youth drinking problems.

[db300]

When I was 14, I visited London. I sat at a bar with my dad, and they let me drink. :-k

[AThousandLies]

I think it's mainly a cultural thing - getting pissed seems to be the way you spend your time. I'm 17 and have never been drunk, which is an anomoly in my age group. Maybe if marijuana was legalized, people would have less harmful ways of getting wasted? But I know that won't be happening anytime soon.

[dsavi]

We have a big drinking problem here.

 

 

 

1 in every 10 000 people die from alcohol poisoning every year. (Population 5 mil, 500 people every year.) My friend has been drunk, he was just a few months over 13. Yep, on the boats from here to Sweden it's happy time, because of the nonexistent tax on alcohol.

[assassin_696]

On the contrary, the french are worse than us for underage drinking problems, hahah. But yeah I see your point, just should have picked a different country ;)

 

 

 

Nah, France has a very low rate of alchohol trouble, in fact a lot of teenagers frowned on our English exchange party when we went over and wanted to go out drinking.

 

 

 

I agree that countries with more of a drinking culture have less of a problem with booze, but I don't know if British culture is really suited to sorting that out anyway. There's a stronger sense of family in Italy, and to some extent, France, which definitely helps.

 

 

 

I'm not sure if lowering the price on it would help either, but I agree that a pint of beer is far too expensive here, especially in the south east.

[angryjoe]

I can't see why it's different, but where I am, people were getting served in quite a few places from being about 13 (voice hadn't even broken!)

 

 

 

Obviously I couldn't go to town centre type places but a few local pubs and stuff will serve anyone. I have also, like you said, drank on the street just because of the price of it, although I don't think making it cheaper would change owt.

 

 

 

One of my teachers was telling me that he was in France on his gap year when they won the world cup. Apparently all that happened was a few cheers and hugs went around before everyone finished their half and went home. For me, that just shows the culture difference. It was mental enough when we won the Rugby world cup, if we won the football one it would be crazy. :shock:

[Ginger_Warrior]

The first point I want to mention is that in the opening paragraphs you seem to imply alchohol solves any problem. The idea that if you drink to forget your problems it's easier has never been true despite what most people think. In fact, it can actually lead to a whole cornucopia of mental illnesses, in the same ways drugs and antidepressents can.

 

 

 

I want to second 1_man_army. We have a massive problem in our society, and I'd like to say that it's a problem with our youth being rebellious but that simply isn't true either. The fact is, I hear of 40-year olds going out clubbing every Friday like religion in order to get absolutely wasted too. When I split up with my GF, my Dad honestly suggested the best cure for me was to go get wasted and find another girl down the bar. With hindsight, I'm so bloody glad I didn't follow that advise!

 

 

 

There almost seems to be a mentallity that you have to drink in order to let go your inhibitions. If you're at a party, you have to get drunk in order to really let yourself go and remove the shackles that keep you you. When frankly that's not true. I went to see the Kaiser Chiefs, and I tell you, I looked a damn sight happier than the drunks falling down the stairs barely able to walk without collapsing of dehydration!

 

 

 

We have to take a more continental approach. We have to change the culture of binge drinking. We should be educating children of the positives of calm drinking like they have in down-town Paris. Not only that, but we have to remove this idea that buying alchohol for under-18s is perfectly acceptable. I was shocked when I heard my own Student Council thought it wouldn't be against the law for friends to buy under-18s alchohol at one of their student doos!

 

 

 

Above all else, given the choice between going out and getting lashed on New Year with my mates, and waking up with the mother of hangovers; or going to Manchester with my family, having a couple of beers at most and generally talking and having a laugh, I know which one I'd rather have.

[x76]

 

 

 

O Rly?

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT - no it didn't work, pic put in instead

 

 

 

source http://camy.org/factsheets/index.php?FactsheetID=5

 

 

 

Oh come on. The United States teens must have been lying. When I was in high school I have only met a handful of people that didn't drink. I've even had a drink underage and I don't drink too much at all even though I'm legal age. They were probably too scared to tell the truth thinking they'd get in trouble for underage drinking which is a decent violation in USA.

[baron8000]

 

 

 

O Rly?

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT - no it didn't work, pic put in instead

 

 

 

source http://camy.org/factsheets/index.php?FactsheetID=5

 

 

 

Oh come on. The United States teens must have been lying. When I was in high school I have only met a handful of people that didn't drink. I've even had a drink underage and I don't drink too much at all even though I'm legal age. They were probably too scared to tell the truth thinking they'd get in trouble for underage drinking which is a decent violation in USA.

 

 

 

That would be relevant if we were actually discussing the US...

[Lenin64]

 

 

 

O Rly?

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT - no it didn't work, pic put in instead

 

 

 

source http://camy.org/factsheets/index.php?FactsheetID=5

 

 

 

Oh come on. The United States teens must have been lying. When I was in high school I have only met a handful of people that didn't drink. I've even had a drink underage and I don't drink too much at all even though I'm legal age. They were probably too scared to tell the truth thinking they'd get in trouble for underage drinking which is a decent violation in USA.

 

 

 

That would be relevant if we were actually discussing the US...

 

Just more anti-America sentiment...

[angryjoe]

 

 

 

O Rly?

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT - no it didn't work, pic put in instead

 

 

 

source http://camy.org/factsheets/index.php?FactsheetID=5

 

 

 

Oh come on. The United States teens must have been lying. When I was in high school I have only met a handful of people that didn't drink. I've even had a drink underage and I don't drink too much at all even though I'm legal age. They were probably too scared to tell the truth thinking they'd get in trouble for underage drinking which is a decent violation in USA.

 

 

 

That would be relevant if we were actually discussing the US...

 

Just more anti-America sentiment...

and...?

[das1330]

it always somehow ties in to the united states.

[Necromagus]

From personal experience, I'd say adult Brits on vacation really aren't setting the example for the young folk back home. Drunken (or generally intoxicated) behaviour here has gotten so bad that certain Amsterdam hotels have had to bar groups of British tourists.

[dusqi]

I don't know much about other cultures, having never properly experienced a continental lifestyle. However, I know that as a British university student, I am so bored with the "let's go out drinking" night. Drinking should be something that you do while you're doing something else, not the sole reason for going out. British pubs in town centres specifically remove distractions so that people do more drinking. Why are there never any coffee places open in the evenings? Surely they would do well.

[ugafan_2009]

As an American, I find it absurd that you can fight in a war when you are 18, but you can not legally purchase alcohol until you turn 21.

[Ginger_Warrior]

As an American, I find it absurd that you can fight in a war when you are 18, but you can not legally purchase alcohol until you turn 21.

 

We're not talking about US policy on emancipation... :wall:

 

 

 

From personal experience, I'd say adult Brits on vacation really aren't setting the example for the young folk back home. Drunken (or generally intoxicated) behaviour here has gotten so bad that certain Amsterdam hotels have had to bar groups of British tourists.

 

I sympathise, because we have the same problem here. I was coming home from a gig in Manchester and we accidently bumped into a guy outside a nightclub. We apologised, he started following us like we had a problem.

 

 

 

Sad fact is, I feel the majority of people in this country would turn round to people like you and go, "[bleep] off we're just 'avin a laugh you boring [cabbage]". There's not a lot we can do while that mentallity exists. :|

 

 

 

We have change public attitudes first.

[killaman_47]

ok i grew up in a west highland (scotland) pub and as far as im conserned the uk is going in totaly the wrong direction! The reason people binge drink was becase that was how they leared to drink, alcohol is or seems hard to get hold off as a teen and when you do get it its at a party and everyone is drinking too much.

 

 

 

Perhaps (and i know this sounds radical) the soultion is to lower the drinking age i learned to drink in a pub so when i see people my age drinking i think "kids these days " even though we are the same age :shock: ive been in (and drinking in) pubs since i was born (i was served at 12 in one pub) and as such i am much more responsible than most young people in the uk also if you have seen the effects of alcohol first hand from a young age and you arent pressured into likeing it then you learn to respect it and the effect it can have