Clan Support Update Continued

[The_Sith]

*continues to stir the pot* Eep. :)

 

 

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=724014&start=0

 

 

 

This was locked by request of the author... but there is still so much more, as users, to be discussed. There should at least be a thread on this board regarding this issue for staff to post on too.

 

 

 

Anyways, Dbz kindly posted that they're working on some things. Anyone else have any optimistic comments about the clan boards that can be worded in say.. a sentence? Keep it simple so the development doesn't get lost amongst complaints or specific ideas.

[Gamerr]

This was locked by request of the author... but there is still so much more, as users, to be discussed. There should at least be a thread on this board regarding this issue for staff to post on too.

 

 

 

Wish you were still an admin...

 

 

 

*sigh*

[Pan_Nx]

but one can make the assumption (however incorrect it may be) that this issue simply isn't that important to the staff right now.

 

The clan section has never been important to the staff (since I've been around). I still stand by the Clan Admin idea.

 

 

 

Also i think it is stupid for the author of the thread to have the powers of getting the thread locked. If there isnt flame or spam and a discussion is flowing, why the hell lock it? I see this happen way to many times (in every forum).

[Gamerr]

but one can make the assumption (however incorrect it may be) that this issue simply isn't that important to the staff right now.

 

The clan section has never been important to the staff (since I've been around).

 

 

 

I doubt they really ignore it, but if they are already doing something it doesn't work. If people say it doesn't work, they say it will work. No room for critisism means also no room for improvement, I'm getting more and more convinced that tip it forums aren't made anymore for clan forums.

[The_Sith]

I agree about the locking thing.. but that's a separate issue I suppose.

 

 

 

LadySarafina used to be the main clan admin awhile back - that wasn't too, too long ago though. The Staff aren't purposely ignoring the clan boards, IMO. I just think it is hard to get anything really going with the small group of users who choose to provide input on the matter. I'm not going to make any assumptions here but a lack of user enthusiasm will only create the same thing on the staff side. There needs to be a drive behind both sides in order to get clans to even consider looking back here... and everyone needs to be willing to work on this goal with a small amount of people.

 

 

 

What exactly IS the clan admin idea? Does that just involve having one admin that specializes in clan boards? If so, how would this create progress according to you? What I'm trying to find out is what the end goal is if an admin is placed in charge of the clan boards. Are you looking for easier communication between users and the higher-ups? Again, an assumption here, but I do not think there is an admin on the staff list right now that is as actively involved in clans as LadyS was. That isn't a negative statement, it just IS. So I think having an admin "emissary" to discuss things with would be fine... but trying to find a replacement LadyS is just impossible as of now. I am optimistic in that I think the improvements can be made in either situation - those involved just have to alter how they present the material and make sure the requests/discussions are clear-cut and understandable.

 

 

 

Still, all of this does not take into account the Clan Improvement Council which does its work in private. We don't want to step on their toes.. but if the ideas/discussions are stagnating, maybe some outside help would be welcome?

[tripsis]

but one can make the assumption (however incorrect it may be) that this issue simply isn't that important to the staff right now.

 

The clan section has never been important to the staff (since I've been around). I still stand by the Clan Admin idea.

 

 

 

That statement is certainly not true. The clan section is important to all of us. As The_Sith stated, a few months ago, LadySarafina was the admin in charge of that part of the forums, and she cared dearly for it. She was really the only administrator who had extensive clan knowledge and experience, and was therefore able to help out immensely. Now that she's gone, we are left with no one who has a lot of clan experience. We all care about the clan forums, it's just that we're not experienced in that field and therefore cannot provide you with ideas that would attract more people.

 

 

 

While having a clan admin is always nice, I too am confused about how you all feel this would create a huge amount of progress. Right now, as I already stated, we do not have any administrators who 'specialize' in clans. So if we have a clan admin... well they wouldn't know a whole lot about what they're dealing with. The only thing they'd really be able to do is say "Sure go ahead and do that." We could offer you ideas, but they wouldn't really be coming from someone who knows what the clan crowd wants and needs. Maybe I'm wrong, but to me it seems like you guys think that by having a clan admin, ideas would just spring up out of the ground and the clan section would suddenly immensely improve.

 

 

 

Right now, with CIC, we have such a system where we don't explicitly have a clan admin, but a group of people who can make similar decisions who actually have clan experience. Please tell me how, given our current staff, a clan admin would be better than the set-up we already have. The admins are always available if you require our assistance, but in terms of creating new ideas that would appeal to the "clan crowd," I really don't think we're the best people for the job.

[Pan_Nx]

Maybe i was mistaken, but during the summer the admins completely ignored CIC, Tallest couldn't help anymore and we spent a month or so without a admin.

 

 

 

Clan admin, yeah your probably right. We don't have anyone to do it. Right now all we are doing is debating (CIC) and nothing is getting done.

[Gamerr]

but one can make the assumption (however incorrect it may be) that this issue simply isn't that important to the staff right now.

 

The clan section has never been important to the staff (since I've been around). I still stand by the Clan Admin idea.

 

 

 

That statement is certainly not true. The clan section is important to all of us. As The_Sith stated, a few months ago, LadySarafina was the admin in charge of that part of the forums, and she cared dearly for it. She was really the only administrator who had extensive clan knowledge and experience, and was therefore able to help out immensely. Now that she's gone, we are left with no one who has a lot of clan experience. We all care about the clan forums, it's just that we're not experienced in that field and therefore cannot provide you with ideas that would attract more people.

 

 

 

1. If you don't have anybody with experience, HIRE somebody with experience. There are enough ex-clan members who were in the high staff of DI, The, DS etc. Why you never did that?

 

 

 

2. You say it correctly. LadySarafina WAS in charge for clan forums. Now it's the_tallest1, and he did -atleast while I was in CIC- a decent job but you cannot expect from somebody without a lot of clan exp (correct me if I'm wrong) to take a desicion that could change tip it CD gravely. You need to built up a team of 2-3 experienced members who are willing to think, brainstorm and have the ambition to bring clans back to tip.it. Why you need so many experienced members? You need "insiders". When a tip.it member goes post on DI boards "Please use tip.it instead of RSCommunity, it owns!!!" he/she will be laughed with. But if a warlord of DI can bring up valuable arguments why tip.it is better then RSC, some DI members will maybe listen and come here. Same for the other clans etc.

 

 

 

3. You say you are not experienced. No big deal, but what bothers me is I have never seen something useful happening. You can debate, discuss think about stuff for months, years... But you only know when something works when you do something with it. When Corr decided to give it a chance, nothing happened, no changes, no polls wheter what they would like to see... It's no problem the staff maybe didn't think about it, but when it has been brought up in the CIC it "would always be discussed". Pft.

 

 

 

4. I have been accused about "taking CD too personal" because on every topic about it I critisise the staff. I don't ask much, just a little movement.

 

I said in a topic that the CIC wasn't working, I got corrected by a moderator saying that they were doing a great job. He/she also said that I needed to inform myself better before critisising. He/she obviously didn't know me, because I had asked a few people from in the CIC how it was going. What do I see on this topic? Right.

 

I said also that you needed to give people with experience some power. I got a big nono from everybody, because "it wouldn't be honest". If you don't got the right people for the job, hire them. Why would people care if somebody got moderator powers over a dead board?

[Loge_05]

There is nothing I can say that I haven't already said before about CD (either here or on the CIC forum). Plainly, someone has to take the ideas that have been given and do something with them. Until then, we're stuck.

[The Observer]

Thanks for posting this. I decided to request to lock it as the idea got implemented (The Conclave). Since the first post was about the idea alone, more people would come in and the conversations would be basically split. So, creating a new thread is better. :wink:

 

 

 

but one can make the assumption (however incorrect it may be) that this issue simply isn't that important to the staff right now.

 

The clan section has never been important to the staff (since I've been around). I still stand by the Clan Admin idea.

 

 

 

That statement is certainly not true. The clan section is important to all of us. As The_Sith stated, a few months ago, LadySarafina was the admin in charge of that part of the forums, and she cared dearly for it. She was really the only administrator who had extensive clan knowledge and experience, and was therefore able to help out immensely. Now that she's gone, we are left with no one who has a lot of clan experience. We all care about the clan forums, it's just that we're not experienced in that field and therefore cannot provide you with ideas that would attract more people.

 

 

 

While having a clan admin is always nice, I too am confused about how you all feel this would create a huge amount of progress. Right now, as I already stated, we do not have any administrators who 'specialize' in clans. So if we have a clan admin... well they wouldn't know a whole lot about what they're dealing with. The only thing they'd really be able to do is say "Sure go ahead and do that." We could offer you ideas, but they wouldn't really be coming from someone who knows what the clan crowd wants and needs. Maybe I'm wrong, but to me it seems like you guys think that by having a clan admin, ideas would just spring up out of the ground and the clan section would suddenly immensely improve.

 

 

 

Right now, with CIC, we have such a system where we don't explicitly have a clan admin, but a group of people who can make similar decisions who actually have clan experience. Please tell me how, given our current staff, a clan admin would be better than the set-up we already have. The admins are always available if you require our assistance, but in terms of creating new ideas that would appeal to the "clan crowd," I really don't think we're the best people for the job.

 

 

 

You can probably appoint more leaders specifically for this issue. If you look closely, you can see users who have the experience in leading a clan and who have lived and experienced the individual battles and arguments that resulted within every update long time ago which shows which ideas will work and which will not. If you want an example: Look at Dbzruler72. I'm not picking him just because he is my clan leader, no! He has more than 6 years of experience in leading a clan. If anyone has the experience, he does. Don't forget, he is a clan moderator. Just raising my views here.

 

 

 

What I'm saying is that there should be a head of CIC that should be voted upon.

[tripsis]

1. If you don't have anybody with experience, HIRE somebody with experience. There are enough ex-clan members who were in the high staff of DI, The, DS etc. Why you never did that?

 

 

 

2. You say it correctly. LadySarafina WAS in charge for clan forums. Now it's the_tallest1, and he did -atleast while I was in CIC- a decent job but you cannot expect from somebody without a lot of clan exp (correct me if I'm wrong) to take a desicion that could change tip it CD gravely. You need to built up a team of 2-3 experienced members who are willing to think, brainstorm and have the ambition to bring clans back to tip.it. Why you need so many experienced members? You need "insiders". When a tip.it member goes post on DI boards "Please use tip.it instead of RSCommunity, it owns!!!" he/she will be laughed with. But if a warlord of DI can bring up valuable arguments why tip.it is better then RSC, some DI members will maybe listen and come here. Same for the other clans etc.

 

 

 

3. You say you are not experienced. No big deal, but what bothers me is I have never seen something useful happening. You can debate, discuss think about stuff for months, years... But you only know when something works when you do something with it. When Corr decided to give it a chance, nothing happened, no changes, no polls wheter what they would like to see... It's no problem the staff maybe didn't think about it, but when it has been brought up in the CIC it "would always be discussed". Pft.

 

 

 

4. I have been accused about "taking CD too personal" because on every topic about it I critisise the staff. I don't ask much, just a little movement.

 

I said in a topic that the CIC wasn't working, I got corrected by a moderator saying that they were doing a great job. He/she also said that I needed to inform myself better before critisising. He/she obviously didn't know me, because I had asked a few people from in the CIC how it was going. What do I see on this topic? Right.

 

I said also that you needed to give people with experience some power. I got a big nono from everybody, because "it wouldn't be honest". If you don't got the right people for the job, hire them. Why would people care if somebody got moderator powers over a dead board?

 

 

 

We did implement a small group of leaders to act as "clan admins" and more specifically approve and implement ideas discussed in CIC. They can do anything that a "clan admin" would do, with the exception that they have limited 'physical' forum powers since they are not actually administrators (i.e. they do not have access to the admin panel).

[Gamerr]

We did implement a small group of leaders to act as "clan admins" and more specifically approve and implement ideas discussed in CIC. They can do anything that a "clan admin" would do, with the exception that they have limited 'physical' forum powers since they are not actually administrators (i.e. they do not have access to the admin panel).

 

 

 

 

 

How can you have clan leaders if you don't have clans here. :oops:

[InkofDeath]

There is nothing I can say that I haven't already said before about CD (either here or on the CIC forum). Plainly, someone has to take the ideas that have been given and do something with them. Until then, we're stuck.

 

I agree with you here. Tip.It has been given how many ideas from people outside of the CIC, and from Tripsis, what she is saying is that the CIC, has a whole bunch of ideas, and are making progress. If that's true, why is nothing done publicly?

 

 

 

If the CIC is so great as you say, or as any admin is saying, why has not one of the idea's that you say there is, not being done? To me, and probably to others, it just seems like most admins are covering themselves with false lies about the CIC and it's progression. Yes, it's my opinion, and I have no place to say what is or isn't happening in a forum I have no knowledge of, however I can say what it appears, and how it is affecting the users.

 

 

 

Tip.It is doing a very crappy job. I don't know, but I think Tip.It has a great reputation that they can use to get 10 to 20 clan leaders, from all aspects of the clan world (mains, pures, and skillers), set them down somewhere, and give them ideas, or ask them what they would want to see on Tip.It, or what would bring them to post about their clan here? The CIC from my ears is just members who have experience with clans here on Tip.It. That's good, but most of them aren't leading a clan, or am I wrong?

 

 

 

Start doing idea's even if you don't know if they will work or not, it's a lot better than hiding behind lousy words, and disappointing the members.

[tripsis]

I think some of you are looking at this the wrong way. In response to skatedog, things were moving slowly over the summer, but we have made some adjustments and things are moving along whether you can see them or not. CIC is working on a few things "behind the scenes." Not all progress is public you know.

 

 

 

Right now you guys are turning to us (aka the staff/primarily the admin team) to conjure up all sorts of ideas and put them to action. But as I previously stated, you shouldn't be looking to us. We're not the ones who are thoroughly involved in clans. You guys should be feeding us ideas and then we can help implement them. If you, the 'experienced' ones, don't give us any ideas, then not much will be happening. I understand that this summer was unproductive, largely due to a lack of communication between the CIC and admin team, but we've changed our system and the CIC nominated their own leaders who will act as clan admins. If that doesn't suffice, then I will be happy to personally implement any ideas that you guys come up with and agree upon (I'm only a PM away ;)).

 

 

 

You have to remember that when it comes to clans, our admin team does not currently have anyone with extensive knowledge of what that crowd of people wants in a fansite. Because of that, it's up to you guys to do the brainstorming and then come to us (or the CIC leaders) to see that they're implemented. We can't do all the work and come up with all the ideas, as that's not our area of expertise.

[Loge_05]

Right now you guys are turning to us to conjure up all sorts of ideas

 

 

 

Wrong. There are plenty of topics in the CIC forum which were full of ideas. Someone is needed who can look at these suggestions prudently and rationally, and then implement them if possible. The CD forum needs leadership, and the Admins are the only group who can install one.

 

 

 

You've admitted that you are inexperienced and ignorant, so find someone - or, even, a few people - who can maintain the Clan boards and run them independently from the rest of TIF.

[Laikrob]

CIC has a leadership, and it's elected by the users there.

[InkofDeath]

We're not the ones who are thoroughly involved in clans. You guys should be feeding us ideas and then we can help implement them.

 

Ideas from the users...ok, well let's look at previous topics, and quotes:

 

 

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=710894

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=690347

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=662293

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=656080

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=591163 (one idea in there by me, should be condensed as loge stated it was far to complex)

 

----------------

 

And yes this is me quoting myself but it's part of what I'm about to post...

 

 

If Tip.It is planning to make a come back with the Clan Area, they need to introduce all the features RSC has, and then some more features for the clans, or tons of different, or unique features that RSC couldn't top, or compare to.

 

 

 

The topics I linked to, a few talk about clan recruitment, and how it needs to be handled. That's point 1, fix how the recruitment on these forums happen.

 

 

 

Point two, advertising. Signatures, in-forum advertising, on-site advertising, mass PM users about Clan Discussion (when it's complete, or able to be used).

 

 

 

Point three get it working. For clans to come and post regularly, you must have:

 

 

 

Discussions

 

Events

 

Awards

 

Clan Tournaments

 

Support the clans, before you support Jagex

 

Features RSC doesn't have, and do have (Forum Ranking of the Clans, more integrated events towards clans and the forum, get events with tet and CD together, when a clan wins an award, have signatures, or have the clan advertised on the site or forums somewhere..what else?)

 

 

 

Tip.It needs to input at least some form of the above, not little by little, a lot by a lot, not everything, but a lot after more and more. Clans need to have competition with other clans, Tip.It hosting clan events.

 

 

 

Tip.It needs to set out it's own honor rules(both main, and pure rules), that do not mention anything about '..and do not conflict with the rules of the game'. Have rules that stop clans from doing such things, but don't mention it, as Clans are hating Jagex at the moment, and if Tip.It is still tying to remain in a good spot with Jagex, they are definitely going to fail at bringing CD back.

 

 

 

Clan tournaments, set up categories for clans, have clans sign up, set them out to war, award the winners with a link somewhere on Tip.It to their clan site, clans will do almost anything for recruitment. Feed the clans needs.

 

 

 

Then again, if Tripsis isn't lying all of the above, and 10x more should have been posted in CIC with far better descriptions. I came up with these on the spot, I have no idea if they would work for Tip.It but they do work in a general sense with other forums.

 

 

 

Loge above me made a good post as well, I'm probably only repeating what has already been said, and suggested in CIC.

[Loge_05]

CIC has a leadership, and it's elected by the users there.

 

 

 

And who is the leadership? What do they do/are doing/have done?

[Gamerr]

Leadership? Lol.

 

 

 

The CIC was "active". What do I read on this topic? The opposite.

 

 

 

The CIC has "leadership". Give us the name then please? I'd like to only write down my ideas to somebody who actually listens/cares.

 

 

 

If you cannot face the problem there is indeed no problem.

[Laikrob]

The leaders are the two Clan Mods (Dbz and Das) and Mario Sunny. Tripsis already explained which power they have.

[Pan_Nx]

The CIC is active, we just aren't active enough. There is too much debating going on and we need to finish our ideas/projects.

[Ts_Stormrage]

Theres the CIC, who's relativly active with disagreeing with one another till the end of days so nothing gets done...

 

 

 

And theres The Conclave

 

 

 

A behind the scenes (or atleast it was supposed to be untill someone added just about everyone he knew) project for the clanleaders and their staff where they can choose to cooperate on a number of aspects that all clans can debate about...

 

 

 

Theres more in a thread I posted on the clan discussions forum...

 

 

 

I think the previous thread was locked on request because this project is making progress according to the wishes of the other thread's starter, and at a pace that I havent seen anywhere else...

[das]

I doubt they really ignore it, but if they are already doing something it doesn't work. If people say it doesn't work, they say it will work. No room for critisism means also no room for improvement, I'm getting more and more convinced that tip it forums aren't made anymore for clan forums.

I for one would love to hear your views on how to fix them, For I feel we are cut from the same cloth and would mostly agree.

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe i was mistaken, but during the summer the admins completely ignored CIC, Tallest couldn't help anymore and we spent a month or so without a admin.

 

 

 

 

He had real life issues on that, and yes the ball was dropped, but his rl issues were not his fault.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. If you don't have anybody with experience, HIRE somebody with experience. There are enough ex-clan members who were in the high staff of DI, The, DS etc. Why you never did that?

 

 

 

That is certainly an interesting possibilty, I would love to see open clan mod app's

 

 

 

And theres The Conclave

 

 

 

Which seems to be a rather self serving idea that was not planned and seems to be a breeding ground for corruption if you ask me.

 

 

 

 

 

I encourage any of the users who wish to be a part of the clan improvement council to give me a pm. together we can get the ball rolling and improve tip.it for the good

[Gamerr]

I for one would love to hear your views on how to fix them, For I feel we are cut from the same cloth and would mostly agree.

 

 

 

Browse the CIC boards, enough of my ideas there. I find it very funny that ideas that I have seen in CIC (not only mines) are getting repeated months later as "new ideas". I always say the same stuff, and every time I re-say it I get another suprised reaction.

 

 

 

 

 

That is certainly an interesting possibilty, I would love to see open clan mod app's

 

 

 

No offense, but apps are a big nono on this one. It's true that you need a qualified person, but influence is as important in searching somebody. So you need somebody who can get (as a matter of speaking) 50 people to join tip.it CD, like a THE-clan council, a DI-warlord, a Corr leader etc.

 

 

 

And not only 1 of them, better to have more.

[das]

 

No offense, but apps are a big nono on this one. It's true that you need a qualified person, but influence is as important in searching somebody. So you need somebody who can get (as a matter of speaking) 50 people to join tip.it CD, like a THE-clan council, a DI-warlord, a Corr leader etc.

 

 

 

And not only 1 of them, better to have more.

 

 

 

Do you know someone who would be interested?