Art

[unorclan]

Do you believe someone without any parents, siblings, aunts or uncles, grandparents with good artistic ability become a good, even great artist? My good friend who is an amazing artist said its possible, but I don't believe him (i've been trying to a year and a half now and it all looks like crap)

 

And what type of art do you think takes more time and talent? Painting? Drawing? whatever?

 

Also, what type of techniques are there out there?

 

 

 

Just discuss...

[IGoddessI]

If you don't believe in your abilities, you've failed before you've started.

[unorclan]

If you don't believe in your abilities, you've failed before you've started.

 

what abilities is what i'm thinking...i try, but I never see anything come out of it all

[IGoddessI]

It's amazing what a tiny bit of praise can do, pm me your picture.

 

 

 

My art teacher used to hold my drawings up and show the rest of the class, which encouraged me to be even better and believe in myself.

 

 

 

Then when you start to doubt yourself again, nothing seems good enough and you slowly give it up.

[Nadril]

No one in my family save for my sister is artistic, and really she's more into pottery and such.

 

 

 

 

 

Art, to be honest, is not just something you are born with. You don't just sit down one day and make something great.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways I started drawing probably when I was 7 or 8, and continually worked at it. When I was 14 I started to get into digital art, and then I'm here now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's amazing what a tiny bit of praise can do, pm me your picture.

 

 

 

My art teacher used to hold my drawings up and show the rest of the class, which encouraged me to be even better and believe in myself.

 

 

 

Then when you start to doubt yourself again, nothing seems good enough and you slowly give it up.

 

 

 

I had a mixture of people believing in me and getting some of the harshest criticisms you'll ever hear. Mostly the harsh stuff helped me though, it made me wanna get better to prove people wrong.

[unorclan]

This is what basically got me to make this topic btw:

 

 

 

i found this while sorting through some bags in my sons bedroom the date was 1997.

 

its not finished he told me it was just a doodle lol wish i could doodle like that

 

 

 

 

wonder is 4be will mind me posting this....anyways - how the heck do you doodle something like that?

[Nom]

I believe that 'natural talent' has very little bearing on whether you can become a good artist or not. What it really takes is interest, motivation, hard work, and a desire to improve and learn from mistakes and constructive criticism. In my family, I have an aunt who writes commercials and an aunt who is an artist, and writing and art are my interests and I'm good at them - but that's because I was interested and kept at it.

 

 

 

Really, I think the only thing you can really inherit from a relative that would be helpful is interest. The rest you have to learn yourself, and being motivated and enjoying it are the best tools to help you learn. But if you find that you like art and wish to pursue it, there is nothing at all stopping you from becoming great.

[Lionheart_0]

I think that art is something that the artist does not try to do to be 'good' or 'perfect' at, but more of to for others to take in that art and intemperate and judge it as they wish. Hence, artists are the people which allow us to have opinions. (I'm talking about all art, not just visual).

[Intriguing]

I think saying that being an artist has nothing to do with natural talent is a load of bull. It's just like music, althought it does have to do with practicing and refining your skill, you're allotted an amount of skill in it before you begin. So just like musicians would naturally have good rhythm or sense of melody, artists would have a superior ability to convey what's in their mind onto a page. But yeah, I think what a lot of it comes down to is creativity.

 

What I don't get, though, is why you're bringing having no family into this..

[tripsis]

In my opinion, the only time at which natural talent really does anyone any good is at the beginning. Someone may be a good artist at a young age, but they still won't get any better unless they practice and work hard at it for several years. Someone with a mediocre artistic ability could reach the same end as someone with natural talent if they work just as hard. Sure it may take a bit more studying/working, but it's possible to reach the same end result (or somewhere in the general area).

 

 

 

I refuse to believe that having an artistic ability is a genetic trait. Art is easily compared to sports. To get good at a sport, you don't need to have a family-tree full of talented sports players, you need motivation and dedication. Spend enough time practicing, and your skills will improve. I've kept a fair share of my sketches for 10 years or so and flipping through them, you can see the improvement over the years. I went from drawing horses with square heads to defining the muscles in their neck.

 

 

 

Something that I've found helpful if you really want to see quick improvement is to draw the same object (whatever it is) over and over again. That way it is really easy to notice improvement, because you can compare every picture to your previous ones. Two big areas that I've done this in are horses (which I've just explained) and eyes. I find it easiest to pick something that you're interested in, because you should expect to observe these objects in real life in order to transfer the ideas onto paper. To reuse my previous example, in order to master shading (which can usually make or break a picture), you need to first study muscles and bones, as they will usually impact where the light hits. Now I've always loved horses, so I have a basic idea of how their muscle and bone structures work. Now after drawing many, many, many horse heads over many, many years, I have progressed immensely. The next thing I decided to tackle were eyes. I spent one year practicing these (thank you classroom doodles!!) and the progress I made was incredible. A classroom setting was easy because eyes are all around you, so they were an easy object to observe. I could see where the light hits the different parts of your eyelids and transfer that onto paper.

 

 

 

As for your question about what kind of art takes more time and talent, that's kind of like saying what is more difficult: english or math. It depends on your strengths and weaknesses. Someone could work miracles with one art form and fail miserably in another. I know some people who produce amazing 15 minute digital art doodles and then there are some people who could produce the same outcome but it would take them much longer. What I'm trying to say is that it's different for every person. A sketcher might find painting difficult, whereas a painter might find sketching difficult. It all depends on your strengths and weaknesses. But if you practice painting, it will become easier and you may find that you can even work faster as you get better. But you cannot simply sit down and expect your hands to work miracles for you. Just like getting good at a sport, an amazing artistic ability won't come overnight.

 

 

 

blah just realized how much I rambled... but I got kinda into it :-$

[highlanders]

Just paint with your heart, not your head. Let your inspiration flow through your brush. It won't be perfect, but it will represent something.

[tripsis]

Just paint with your heart, not your head. Let your inspiration flow through your brush. It won't be perfect, but it will represent something.

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more. Something that many people tend to forget is that art is very subjective and not all art is realism. The more realistic your picture is does not necessarily mean the better it is. Some of my favourite pieces of art make absolutely no sense and are far from realistic, but I love them nonetheless.

[Nadril]

I think saying that being an artist has nothing to do with natural talent is a load of bull. It's just like music, althought it does have to do with practicing and refining your skill, you're allotted an amount of skill in it before you begin. So just like musicians would naturally have good rhythm or sense of melody, artists would have a superior ability to convey what's in their mind onto a page. But yeah, I think what a lot of it comes down to is creativity.

 

What I don't get, though, is why you're bringing having no family into this..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry but that is not always the case. Whenever I drew I started off mostly tracing stuff when I was 7, and I worked my way up to just drawing other stuff. I never was good at just drawing from memory -- however.

 

 

 

 

 

For my digital art though, I present this:

 

 

 

http://nadril.deviantart.com/art/1337-n ... ee-4189306

 

This is not even my first thing I ever did, the first is so much worse. However, I went from doing this and -- with work, I now do stuff like this:

 

 

 

http://nadril.deviantart.com/art/rEACTOR-pt2-42467920

 

 

 

and my signature.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah sure for some lucky people they might have some good artistic creativity built up in them, but not all of us started like that.

[Rebdragon]

Meh, I've got no talent for art, but I've been sketching for a year, pretty much all realism or Japanese styles, and I've been getting better[ish]. As far as drawing realistic sketches goes, it's definitely been all practice and no natural talent, but I'd bet that general talent has helped other artists moreso than I; I wouldn't simply factor it out in the development processes. Depends on what you're making, I'd say the more realistic it is, the more practice it requires, and inversely, the less realistic, the more natural talent can act as a major factor.

 

 

 

[side note: Nadril, how long did some of those digital pieces take you o_O? What do you use to make those in a realistic time frame?]

[Intriguing]

I think saying that being an artist has nothing to do with natural talent is a load of bull. It's just like music, althought it does have to do with practicing and refining your skill, you're allotted an amount of skill in it before you begin. So just like musicians would naturally have good rhythm or sense of melody, artists would have a superior ability to convey what's in their mind onto a page. But yeah, I think what a lot of it comes down to is creativity.

 

What I don't get, though, is why you're bringing having no family into this..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry but that is not always the case. Whenever I drew I started off mostly tracing stuff when I was 7, and I worked my way up to just drawing other stuff. I never was good at just drawing from memory -- however.

 

 

 

 

 

For my digital art though, I present this:

 

 

 

http://nadril.deviantart.com/art/1337-n ... ee-4189306

 

This is not even my first thing I ever did, the first is so much worse. However, I went from doing this and -- with work, I now do stuff like this:

 

 

 

http://nadril.deviantart.com/art/rEACTOR-pt2-42467920

 

 

 

and my signature.

 

 

 

Yeah sure for some lucky people they might have some good artistic creativity built up in them, but not all of us started like that.

 

I'm not saying that those who aren't incredibly naturally gifted can't become good. I'm just disagreeing with the people that say natural ability has very little or nothing to do with it. If that makes sense. I don't know, I just find it hard to believe that the artists who are considered the "greats" started with little natural talent.

 

But then again, I'm not an arty person, I'm much more musical.

[Luke_L]

I don't think creativity in art/music is inherited. I'm the first musician out of my family in ages, and my brother is an amazing artist. I got good by hard practice, study after more study, learning my instrument through and through. The same for my brother; all he does is draw.

 

 

 

I believe that a large part of my creativity comes from having bipolar disorder and the incredible manic episodes that tag along with it. Unfortunately I rarely remember my episodes so I have to rely on information from my friends and family. Apparently, I practice more in those few days of mania than I do in 3 weeks. I don't know. Maybe that's the secret as to why, after only 3 years of playing brass in general, that everyone tells me I play at a university standard. That's not to say everyone with bipolar disorder is over creative... Some people just don't get the sparse-ish advantages of it, which is a shame.

 

 

 

Do I like being bipolar and having to take endless medication? No. I do like, however, my drive and determination.

 

 

 

I know I sound awfully egotistical, but... I'm trying to explain my talent in a way that others may be able to relate to them. All of this applies to artists and actors too. I'm saying, there may be a hidden reason for a talent. Some people, however, practice endlessly and never get better. A bit like me with art. It's frustrating. >.<

[dusqi]

I think saying that being an artist has nothing to do with natural talent is a load of bull. It's just like music, althought it does have to do with practicing and refining your skill, you're allotted an amount of skill in it before you begin.

 

 

 

Nup. Scientists compared concert pianists with not-so-good pianists (still performing, but not international). The only difference between them was how long they spent practicing over their lives.

[Satenza]

When I am on vacation i sometimes paint, only because of the scenery. Its only surrealist things anyway, and I doubt its any good. Its interesting how different types of paper uses paint in different ways. Thats what i enjoy about it most.

[Nom]

I'm not saying that those who aren't incredibly naturally gifted can't become good. I'm just disagreeing with the people that say natural ability has very little or nothing to do with it. If that makes sense. I don't know, I just find it hard to believe that the artists who are considered the "greats" started with little natural talent.

 

But then again, I'm not an arty person, I'm much more musical.

 

 

 

I contend that there is no real 'natural talent.' What I'm trying to say is that what we label as natural talent is just a vested interest in the medium and a desire to stick with it and learn to become better. That you are born with. You are not, however, born with miraculous abilities to produce masterpieces whenever you so choose. You naturally lean in your interests towards certain skills, and that means that you have the resolve and the will to keep trying and learn from your failures, and also become better at observation. When you are into something like art, you start to notice the art around you and can learn simply from observation. Were you are not interested, on the other hand, skills would not develop.

 

 

 

No one started out producing great works of art off 'natural talent,' as Nadril demonstrated. I myeself still have the pages of my first serious attempt at writing, and they are quite humorous to read in light of how far I've come. So Unorclan, don't give up, you have the potential. You just have to stick with it.

[unorclan]

Thanks for all the advice guys!!! Though how come 6 of my friends are amazing artist and it just so happens that their parents are artist/painters/sculpters/ect

 

 

 

 

 

What I don't get, though, is why you're bringing having no family into this..

 

I said having no family that has good artist abilities...

[ThoseTheBrokes]

There is a certain level of natural talent involved, without a shadow of a doubt.

 

 

 

As for art you need that creative ability, you need that awe-inspiring imagination, being able to draw confident lines.

 

 

 

You can't learn 'art', you are either born at having that artistic flare or you aren't, you were born for something else.

[dymed]

There is a certain level of natural talent involved, without a shadow of a doubt.

 

 

 

As for art you need that creative ability, you need that awe-inspiring imagination, being able to draw confident lines.

 

 

 

You can't learn 'art', you are either born at having that artistic flare or you aren't, you were born for something else.

 

 

 

I believe this more than anything else. What more or less rules who you are is your DNA. Now, I'm not saying your genes will necessarily directly make you into a great artist, but it will predispose you to be one. For virtually all forms of art, you need to be creative, you need to be imaginative. Some people just aren't. They are much more methodical, more structured. Also, some personalities just don't cater to becoming an artist. For the most part, (really good) art requires you to sit/stand in one position for hours at a time, day after day for weeks or months or even years. I could never do that. I need to be active and moving. Which is why I became interested in sports at an early age and still am. I completely stink at basically an art form you name name, from music to drawing to pottery. But when it comes to sports, I'm very good at some of them and can hold my own in almost all of them. And I can pick new sports/physical activities up very quickly. Drawing is a very different case; I used to take drawing classes when I was younger and failed horribly at them.

 

 

 

With that said, of course practice and dedication is a huge part as well. A person practicing for 1 month will almost never be as good as someone practicing for 10 years. But the person practicing for 10 years I can pretty much guarantee had some sort of predisposition towards their craft, whatever it may be. Also, I believe that "natural talent" not only functions to start people off in something, it also limits what they can achieve. I'm talking about really, really great artists here, on the order of da Vinci and company. People like them are just born with an innate ability which they fostered with years of practice. Unless you have that within you, you can "work hard" your whole life and you'll never get up to that point. Life isn't always as fair as some people would like.

 

 

 

Basically, being successful in any walk of life, whether it be music, bodybuilding, sports, drawing, or even professions like doctor or lawyer, your genes definitely have a very large (but not complete) say in the matter.

[Nadril]

I have to disagree dymed.

 

 

 

See, I think that if a child works on art at a young level he has a better chance of becoming a good artist when they get older. The reason is that children are so much more imaginative and creative than us. It's not really a guess, but they actually are a lot more creative.

 

 

 

If a child works on art at a young age I think that would help. It doesn't have as much to do if they were naturally born creative or not, because I think pretty much all children are creative -- just a lot don't know how to put it down on paper.

[Rebdragon]

Quick question for anyone who knows [going off a thought about Nad's post^]: Is the whole "left-right brained" matter nature or nurture? I'd definitely factor that into 'natural talent' for the right brained peoplez, and if it's nature than it'd definitely be important in further understanding the extent to which genetics can play a role in how artistic someone is or will be.

[venomai]

You can't learn 'art', you are either born at having that artistic flare or you aren't, you were born for something else.

 

I disagree. Being artistic is a skill that any able-bodied person can learn.

 

 

 

There are two sides to the brain. The left side's thinking is more logical, sequential, organized, etc. The right side is random, imaginative, etc.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, so much of life (school, work, etc) is based on logic and rational thinking that most people don't get the chance to truly use their "creative" side of the brain.

 

 

 

Though how come 6 of my friends are amazing artist and it just so happens that their parents are artist/painters/sculpters/ect

 

Your friends were most likely raised in a manner that made them use their right brains more dominantly.

 

 

 

Don't believe me about all this brain stuff?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateraliza ... n_function

 

http://www.web-us.com/brain/LRBrain.html

 

http://www.funderstanding.com/right_left_brain.cfm

 

 

 

No offense, but the average art class won't do anything for you. If you really do want to learn to draw, I strongly suggest you read the book Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain by Betty Edwards. :) It has a lot of good information about how to use your right side of the brain while drawing.

 

 

 

I'm in the process of reading the book and doing the excersises, and I can already see my "artistic skill" improving. The book has enabled me to draw things I've never known I could.

 

I'll post an example in a while...