Bush Tells Israeli's Should get out of Arab Land

[assassin_696]

It's about time. The Israeli occupation of Palestine is just another example of western supported colonialism and subjugation of a less technologically advanced people. Don't get me wrong, I support the state of Israel's right to exist, but only an idiot would put the Jews in Gaza to make them safer. Israel would do itself a favour to seek a two state solution and give up expansionism in the west bank.

[MasterMarduk]

I just find it amazing how America can fund the Israelis with weapons and guns to kill palaestines and lebanese and yet when they take up arms their automatically labelled terrorists. It's sick.

 

 

 

Still, America is damned if it acts and damned if it doesn't... Thats the price of being the world's biggest super power i guess... :roll:

 

 

 

Well. Its just as ironic that they helped the Taliban get Afghanistan back in the 1980's. Trained them, supplied them, and reinstated them into power.

 

 

 

Acctually they trained afghanistan's mujahideen, most were not taliban. But yes there were enough to cause trouble when we desided we needed to come in.

 

 

 

The muhahideen are the same people who later formed the Taleban, I thought this was common knowledge, therefore I didn't feel it was necessary to give a serious history backdrop.

 

 

 

The best-known mujahideen, various loosely-aligned Afghan opposition groups, initially fought against the incumbent pro-Soviet Afghan government during the 1980s. At the Afghan government's request, the Soviet Union became involved in the war. The mujahideen insurgency then fought against the Soviet troops during the Soviet war in Afghanistan. After the Soviet Union pulled out of the conflict in the late 1980s the mujahideen fought each other in the subsequent Afghan Civil War.

 

 

 

The mujahideen won when the Soviet Union pulled troops out of Afghanistan in 1989, followed by the fall of the Mohammad Najibullah regime in 1992. However, the mujahideen did not establish a united government, and many of the larger mujahideen groups began to fight each other over the power in Kabul. After several years of devastating infighting, a village mullah organized a new armed movement with the backing of Pakistan. This movement became known as the Taliban, meaning "students", and referring to the Saudi-backed religious schools known for producing extremism. Veteran mujahideen were confronted by this radical splinter group in 1996.

 

 

 

By 2001, the Taliban, with backing from the Pakistani ISI (military intelligence) and possibly even the regular Pakistan Army, as well as al-Qaeda which found a refuge in Afghanistan, had largely defeated the militias and controlled most of the country. The opposition factions allied themselves together again and became known as the United Islamic Front for the Salvation of Afghanistan (Northern Alliance). In 2001 with U.S. help and international military aid, they ousted the Taliban from power and formed the new government, and gradually militias were either incorporated into the new national army and police forces or demobilized.

[FooK-A-Ji]

[hide]

How would you depict Russia as becoming more communist atm?

 

Russians have no intention of returning to communism, and their new upcoming president has no intention either. Yet I still get this from time to time, that Russians are returning to communism..

 

The only real communist state left is Cuba, and with Castro dying soon, so will communism.

 

And when the hippies die, it will be forgotten.

 

 

 

Ok I didn't really Mean communism as such just they're starting to hate the America, Uk and the West again

 

 

 

Main Cause :- President Putin

 

 

 

Things Russia have recently Done which shows tension with the West

 

 

 

 

 

Killed Alexander Litvinyenko with Polonium 210

 

 

 

They threatened Europe they would Aim there missles at us if America decided to build that defence shield system

 

 

 

They started to fly the old cold war bombers on routine Flights Across the World

 

 

 

They have exited an Arms treated which was set up at the end of the Cold War (I think , mabye WW2)

 

 

 

They are helping Iran building Nuclear Power

 

 

 

Just a few things.....

 

 

 

You portray those things in a negative way, IMO its good that at least ONE civilized country is standing up to the bullies.

 

First things first. I can't justify all these acts, but I'll do a few.

 

 

 

Who is the "us" you mean? And thats because the missile shield is built globally, and the closest is in Germany, easily reaching Moscow and Russia, they are in their full rights to object to the building of the missile shield, which can easily become a missile WEAPON.

 

So they are flying old junky bombers around, while America is flying high-tech advanced warplanes and actually USING them across the world...

 

 

 

So they exited an arms treatment. America was never in it to begin with.

 

 

 

Us as In just countries in Europe

 

 

 

America May be Bullies but so are the Russians

 

 

 

Things like Truning of Georgia's ? Gas supply last year because they took down one of Russians war Statues...Would the USA do that..no!.

 

 

 

Also I read the Other day Russia owns All the Resources of another Country, Can't remember which, and is basically taking all its Gold

[/hide]

 

 

 

Russians have always aimed missiles at european coutnries. They did it last year at Denmark, wher I live, nobody cares.

 

 

 

"america may be bullies but so are the russians". Right, but russia hasn't bullied anyone internationally in decades. Cechnya and Georgia which you also speak of are internal struggles.

 

 

 

Oh, Russia owns some other countries gold ?? Thats funny, cuz America owns some other countries oil .Otherwise called black gold. Worth more than the gold you wear on ur finger, or else they would have invaded a gold mining country if it was the other way around.

 

 

 

Plz dont make me have to mention the vietnam war, I will kill you on this subject. Subject being "which is the greater of the two evils". Stalins genocide of 1 million civilians doesn't even compare to vietnam. (5 million dead civilians), more bombs thrown on the little country vietnam than Germany , Japan and their allies in World War2.

 

1 million viet cong died as opposed to the measly 57.000 american G.I's. Napalm has been banned since the 70's. Yet they used it in this decade. They exclude themselves from the some 200 other countries which have signed the Greenhouse pact, literally saying they don't give a chit about the planet unless theirs stars and stripes all over it.

 

I'm not talking about the american people.I'm talking about the american government and the people who run it.

 

 

 

 

 

I'll have to leave this subject alone now, before I find myslef whipping myself into a frenzy

 

 

 

Edit: Use hide tags please in future ~assassin

[Hydraides]

[hide]

How would you depict Russia as becoming more communist atm?

 

Russians have no intention of returning to communism, and their new upcoming president has no intention either. Yet I still get this from time to time, that Russians are returning to communism..

 

The only real communist state left is Cuba, and with Castro dying soon, so will communism.

 

And when the hippies die, it will be forgotten.

 

 

 

Ok I didn't really Mean communism as such just they're starting to hate the America, Uk and the West again

 

 

 

Main Cause :- President Putin

 

 

 

Things Russia have recently Done which shows tension with the West

 

 

 

 

 

Killed Alexander Litvinyenko with Polonium 210

 

 

 

They threatened Europe they would Aim there missles at us if America decided to build that defence shield system

 

 

 

They started to fly the old cold war bombers on routine Flights Across the World

 

 

 

They have exited an Arms treated which was set up at the end of the Cold War (I think , mabye WW2)

 

 

 

They are helping Iran building Nuclear Power

 

 

 

Just a few things.....

 

 

 

You portray those things in a negative way, IMO its good that at least ONE civilized country is standing up to the bullies.

 

First things first. I can't justify all these acts, but I'll do a few.

 

 

 

Who is the "us" you mean? And thats because the missile shield is built globally, and the closest is in Germany, easily reaching Moscow and Russia, they are in their full rights to object to the building of the missile shield, which can easily become a missile WEAPON.

 

So they are flying old junky bombers around, while America is flying high-tech advanced warplanes and actually USING them across the world...

 

 

 

So they exited an arms treatment. America was never in it to begin with.

 

 

 

Us as In just countries in Europe

 

 

 

America May be Bullies but so are the Russians

 

 

 

Things like Truning of Georgia's ? Gas supply last year because they took down one of Russians war Statues...Would the USA do that..no!.

 

 

 

Also I read the Other day Russia owns All the Resources of another Country, Can't remember which, and is basically taking all its Gold

 

 

 

Russians have always aimed missiles at european coutnries. They did it last year at Denmark, wher I live, nobody cares.

 

 

 

"america may be bullies but so are the russians". Right, but russia hasn't bullied anyone internationally in decades. Cechnya and Georgia which you also speak of are internal struggles.

 

 

 

Oh, Russia owns some other countries gold ?? Thats funny, cuz America owns some other countries oil .Otherwise called black gold. Worth more than the gold you wear on ur finger, or else they would have invaded a gold mining country if it was the other way around.

 

 

 

Plz dont make me have to mention the vietnam war, I will kill you on this subject. Subject being "which is the greater of the two evils". Stalins genocide of 1 million civilians doesn't even compare to vietnam. (5 million dead civilians)

[/hide]

 

 

 

True but America only owns Iraq's Oil and theres no need to go into why that is.

 

 

 

Lets just see how things pan whenever Vladimir Putin has some involvment in Russian Politics theres going to be trouble.

 

 

 

I just have a bad feeling Russia and Iran are going to become good friends

 

 

 

Edit: Use hide tags please in future ~assassin

[FooK-A-Ji]

Trouble.. Trouble for who? America? Thats welcomed trouble if you ask me and alot of other people.

 

Putin is a nationalist, an ex-KGB high ranked officer, can you blaim him for disliking USA?

 

 

 

The only reason why USA is shaking in their boots over Iran producing nukes is cuz they know they'll be the first and probably last to get a feel of their own medicine. Bear in mind that USA is also the only country to ever throw a nuke on another country, two cities, maybe 5% soldiers. The effects of Hiroshima & Nagasaki are still felt to this day.

 

 

 

Yet america is the loudest voice when it comes to disarmament and not building bombs, which applies to everyone else but themselves.

 

 

 

If we're not supposed to forget history, why should we forget that they have killed 6 million people in Vietnam, a few million in Japan by use of nuclear weapons, possibly the most disgusting weapon the human mind has made.

 

 

 

Forgive me if I have a slightly negative look on things, I just don't agree with hypocrites. At least Russia doesn't hide behind poor excuses, and don't invade other countries anymore.

 

 

 

Their used to be 2 superpowers, now there is 1, America.

 

Don't be fooled into thinking Russia just laid down their weapons and surrendured. No. They realized that the course they had laid was selfdestructive, and stopped. America has continued on the same course it has always been on. The same one that Russia left 2 decades ago. "And the meek shall inherit the earth".'

 

 

 

 

 

--

 

To get back on topic, Its obvious that George Bush is trying to leave his Legacy as trying to have peace in the middle east. Which is a steaming pile of bull. Seeing as the 8 years Clinton had were the first 8 years in a long time America saw, without a war.

[darkmage099]

 

Most Jews who live in Israel are Russian :-k

 

 

that is totally not true, and dont try to argue with me, i live in israel. i dont agree with giving back the lands, we conquered the lands in war they declared on us, we already gave them lands about 2 years ago, and now all the israelis who lived there are homeless.

 

 

 

Not much conquering, when you roll in with massive tanks and automatic weapons, against kids with rocks and sticks and stones.

 

 

 

Its more like baseraping in a Battlefield 2 server.

 

u make me laugh, get ur facts right, and then talk.

 

 

 

GTFO laser.

[FooK-A-Ji]

For the benefit of Laser, I will rephrase my post to say "adults" with sticks and stones as well as children.

[BlueLancer]

 

u make me laugh, get ur facts right, and then talk.

 

 

 

He's right, so what is there to 'correct' about his facts?

 

 

 

How many helicopter gunships, airplanes, heavy artillery and tanks do the palestinian militants have again, compared to the Israeli "Defence" Forces who shell the Gaza strip/West Bank? Was that 0?

 

 

 

They are practically defending themselves with 'sticks and stones', (and sometimes literally armed only with stones against tanks) compared to the IDF weaponry. Civilians and children die all the time while IDF searches homes and bombs entire towns for "suspected terrorist leaders" and militants.

 

 

 

Israel Defense Forces soldiers killed 28 Palestinians across the West Bank and Gaza Strip on Wednesday. More than half of the fatalities were civilians killed by an errant IDF shell on the northern Gaza town of Beit Hanun.

 

 

 

What would you do if that was your child? Just praise Israel for it's efforts?

 

 

 

Hamas swore to avenge the deaths, and called on all Palestinian groups to renew attacks inside Israel.

 

 

 

Wow, those pesky terrorist, unhuman monsters. They should just suck up the attacks against their own population and accept it silently, just like the Americans did when Pearl Harbor was attacked, just like the Finnish when the Russians shelled their towns...

[Hydraides]

 

u make me laugh, get ur facts right, and then talk.

 

 

 

He's right, so what is there to 'correct' about his facts?

 

 

 

How many helicopter gunships, airplanes, heavy artillery and tanks do the palestinian militants have again, compared to the Israeli "Defence" Forces who shell the Gaza strip/West Bank? Was that 0?

 

 

 

They are practically defending themselves with 'sticks and stones', (and sometimes literally armed only with stones against tanks) compared to the IDF weaponry. Civilians and children die all the time while IDF searches homes and bombs entire towns for "suspected terrorist leaders" and militants.

 

 

 

Israel Defense Forces soldiers killed 28 Palestinians across the West Bank and Gaza Strip on Wednesday. More than half of the fatalities were civilians killed by an errant IDF shell on the northern Gaza town of Beit Hanun.

 

 

 

What would you do if that was your child? Just praise Israel for it's efforts?

 

 

 

Hamas swore to avenge the deaths, and called on all Palestinian groups to renew attacks inside Israel.

 

 

 

Wow, those pesky terrorist, unhuman monsters. They should just suck up the attacks against their own population and accept it silently, just like the Americans did when Pearl Harbor was attacked, just like the Finnish when the Russians shelled their towns...

 

 

 

Exactly My thoughts...They call Palenstians Terrorists for using Suicide bombs but its the only weapons they have. Ok I don't think its right they target Israel peoples but then Its [bleep] for Tat ...Israel kills lots of Palenstians civilians

[Ginger_Warrior]

This is a small drop in a huge ocean. America can tell Isreal all it wants to withdraw its troops. There's still plenty of other issues to throw around the table.

 

 

 

The Isrealis' own constitution is as blatently racist as they come, clearly against the UN Declaration of Human Rights, yet they're not only allowed to participate in deciding Palestine's future at UN meetings, but they also receive the full blessing of America despite having that constitution, on the grounds Lebanon and Palestine contain supposedly 'terrorist' organisations.

 

 

 

Then there's the whole issue of borders. Isreal has not once honoured the UN-recognised borders; it settles on land which isn't even its own. How on Earth can this be anything other than 'theft'? The country's policies show complete racism, and then they wonder why those races attack them?

 

 

 

America can politely tell Isreal to remove its tropps all it likes. What Lebanon and especially Palestine need is for diplomatic efforts to secure their own countries. It seems an amazing contradiction from the Bush Admin., who support the wall across the Gaza Strip, and then recognise it is the sole factor which is stagnating the Palestinian economy, and then goes even further to say this growth in economy is vital to secure a resolution for the Isreal question, which would necessitate this wall being torn down.

 

 

 

Isreal needs to face the music of economic and diplomatic sanctions before any peace can be found here. In other words, they need to be told their actions are wrong, instead of this blind policy of appeasement, not too dissimilar to the attitude Britain and France showed Hitler.

[malo2]

[hide]

Trouble.. Trouble for who? America? Thats welcomed trouble if you ask me and alot of other people.

 

Putin is a nationalist, an ex-KGB high ranked officer, can you blaim him for disliking USA?

 

 

 

The only reason why USA is shaking in their boots over Iran producing nukes is cuz they know they'll be the first and probably last to get a feel of their own medicine. Bear in mind that USA is also the only country to ever throw a nuke on another country, two cities, maybe 5% soldiers. The effects of Hiroshima & Nagasaki are still felt to this day.

 

 

 

Yet america is the loudest voice when it comes to disarmament and not building bombs, which applies to everyone else but themselves.

 

 

 

If we're not supposed to forget history, why should we forget that they have killed 6 million people in Vietnam, a few million in Japan by use of nuclear weapons, possibly the most disgusting weapon the human mind has made.

 

 

 

Forgive me if I have a slightly negative look on things, I just don't agree with hypocrites. At least Russia doesn't hide behind poor excuses, and don't invade other countries anymore.

 

 

 

Their used to be 2 superpowers, now there is 1, America.

 

Don't be fooled into thinking Russia just laid down their weapons and surrendured. No. They realized that the course they had laid was selfdestructive, and stopped. America has continued on the same course it has always been on. The same one that Russia left 2 decades ago. "And the meek shall inherit the earth".'

 

 

 

 

 

--

 

To get back on topic, Its obvious that George Bush is trying to leave his Legacy as trying to have peace in the middle east. Which is a steaming pile of bull. Seeing as the 8 years Clinton had were the first 8 years in a long time America saw, without a war.

[/hide]if someone as pathetically immature as you had any political power, the world would end.

 

 

 

 

 

as for the matter in Isreal, I couldn't care less what happened 4000 years ago (in a modern political sense), but I do care what happened 40 years ago. I can't disagree much.

 

 

 

I also found it funny the way I was expecting a riot to be the first thing I would see when reading the news, and what do you know, I was right. I think flag and portrait burning has already completely lost it's value in the middle east.

[IGoddessI]

Very Interesting, First he gives Israelis weapons to fight the Palestians. Only a few years ago America recognised Palestians as terrorists

 

 

 

Now hes telling Israeli should give back its terrority

 

 

 

Wow Americas tactics haven't changed a bit. It's not like they haven't already done the exact same thing to Russia or even the Timor Lestes :roll:

[tryto]

I don't think they can afford to [bleep] with China atm. China exports a helluva lot of stuff to the States, so, if they start messing with them, they can just shut down shop. Won't do much good against a country who's prepared to forcefully get what they want, I suppose, though

 

 

 

I disagree. China imports a lot of stuff, like oil. They need it to supply their economy and massive population base. I think they need the US's money more than teh US needs it products, which it could probably make up with increased spending in Japan and Taiwan. You'd think they would prefer to buy from a non-communist country, especially with their political mindset.

[BlueLancer]

I don't think they can afford to [bleep] with China atm. China exports a helluva lot of stuff to the States, so, if they start messing with them, they can just shut down shop. Won't do much good against a country who's prepared to forcefully get what they want, I suppose, though

 

 

 

I disagree. China imports a lot of stuff, like oil. They need it to supply their economy and massive population base. I think they need the US's money more than teh US needs it products, which it could probably make up with increased spending in Japan and Taiwan. You'd think they would prefer to buy from a non-communist country, especially with their political mindset.

 

 

 

China doesn't need anything from the USA (it's not like the US is an exporter oil either, which it desperately needs itself). China has so much money they have over $1.4 trillion ($1400 billion) dollars in foreign reserve accounts just sitting there.

 

 

 

If anything, the US needs cheap labour & manufacturing of products China provides. Cellphones, car parts, electronics & almost all household appliances are manufactured in China instead of the US for a reason.

 

 

 

An american worker would demand to get paid at least $20,000 a year to do a simple assembly job that a chinese worker will do for $3,000 a year. If americans didn't have the chinese to do it's work cheap, their economy would be much poorer due to hugely increased employee costs -> Decreased profit margins.

 

 

 

Sure, it "needs" american money, but they have substitutes as well. Japan, the EU, Australia, African countries, South America, Russia... All buy merchandise and goods from China. The country can manage economically even if USA bought nothing from them.

 

 

 

You'd think they would prefer to buy from a non-communist country, especially with their political mindset.

 

 

 

Economics has nothing to do with political mindsets. If there's profit or advantage to be made the US will deal with hardline dictators and self-proclaimed presidents for life, regardless of their 'political' stance. Not to mention China is only nominally communist; It's practically a capitalistic society already, except it retains a single-party political system.

[Ginger_Warrior]

I'm with BlueLancer. There's little similarity between modern day China and the Maoist regime, or even communism for that matter.

 

 

 

In fact, it annoys me how that term is loosely flung around. My own history teacher yesterday referred to the Wartime Economy of the Britain 1939-1945 as communist... :|

[lordkafei]

Back in 1948, when Israel became a state, the boundaries were a lot closer to what had been drawn out in United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181.

 

 

 

Since then, Israel has been attacked by its neighbors scores of times and taken control of all of Palestine by force. And I don't begrudge them any of it.

 

 

 

If the Palestinians & the Arab States had not attacked Israel back then, there'd have been a separate Palestinian state standing on its feet by now.

 

 

 

They thought they could take it all by force, and they ended up losing it all by 1967.

 

 

 

If it gets repartitioned tomorrow, 50-50, they will still try to take it all from Israel the next chance they get.

 

 

 

As you can tell, I am skeptical about "land for peace."

[megakiller32]

Just a thought I wonder what the Russian Reaction will be, Most Jews who live in Israel are Russian :-k

 

 

 

Maybe you want to rephrase, that, because thats untrue, however a large proportion of Russian Jews are leaving Russia due to growing Anti-Semitism.

[Bxpprod]

on side note: i totally agree with you. Palestine should have the land back that was STOLEN from them in the 6 day war.

 

And to comment the russians, they should shut up in this case. If the israeli's loved their land so much they woudln't have left it 4000 years ago. It was not lack of foreskin, but foresight that is causing this terrible problem anno 1959-2007.

 

 

 

The 1948 war they went from a 55:45 split to 85:15, with the EGYPTIANS and JORDANIANS took the Gaza and West Bank.

 

 

 

The Israelis took it from the EGYPTIANS and JORDANIANS in the six day war.

 

 

 

Don't blame zii jews :D

 

 

 

But that said, it shouldn't of been "taken" in the 1948 war anyway. Blame the Arab nations (Iraq, Egypt, Jordan, Syria and others) for invading Israel the day after proclamation, and getting thrashed by forces much smaller than them

[LaserDude333]

mhmm, and still people say we stole lands from them.

 

my grandfather broke his back in the 6 day war :cry: , kinda off-topic but nvm

[darkmage099]

mhmm, and still people say we stole lands from them.

 

my grandfather broke his back in the 6 day war :cry: , kinda off-topic but nvm

 

 

 

Way to respond to all the LOGICAL arguments. It shows a lot about what you're made off...

[stillakid]

Israel won that land fair and square in the 6 day war.

 

then Israel tried to share...

 

they declined... so technecally we tried. :lol:

[ProZac_Rehab]

And about the discussion about the US sponsoring the Taliban? Untrue. We sponsored the Mujhadin during the Afghani War in the 1980's (watch Charlie Wilson's War, for Pete's sake!). However, we did not CONTINUE to help Afghanistan financially after the war, and the Taliban was able to ride the waves in and wrestle control from the Mujhadin (the Mujhadin are now known as the Northern Alliance and helped the US evict the Taliban).

 

The huge range of weapons the US gave to the mujhadin was later taken over by the taliban.They used those weapons to fight the northern alliance and US forces in 2001.

 

 

 

 

 

Palestinian soil is useless, they don't have any economy, they don't have any energy production, barely any food production.

 

I don't know the exact history, but i believe Israel was given the most fertile and productive lands.

 

 

 

In my opinion this will never get solved, I've never seen any country given part of their land to another country. Especially if these 2 countries have been hostile towards each other. Bush (maybe i'm biased over this because i hate him) is just trying to get himself in the history books in a better way before he leaves the white house.

 

 

 

PEANUT FOR PRESIDENT!

 

~Prozac~

[darkmage099]

Israel won that land fair and square in the 6 day war.

 

then Israel tried to share...

 

they declined... so technecally we tried. :lol:

 

 

 

Forgot to finish your sentence.

 

 

 

You tried to make them your subordinates. They declined. As was said before, it was sort of already their land...

[Deiophobus]

I'm sorry, but if Israel has the right to the land, because they lived there thousands of years ago, then why doesn't North America completely belong to the native people?

 

 

 

Or, why doesn't Texas and California belong to Mexico, it was their's...

 

 

 

England occupied France for a while, would you say it belongs to them, because they "won it" in a "fair and square war"?

[TheLastTemplar]

Back in 1948, when Israel became a state, the boundaries were a lot closer to what had been drawn out in United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181.

 

 

 

Since then, Israel has been attacked by its neighbors scores of times and taken control of all of Palestine by force. And I don't begrudge them any of it.

 

 

 

If the Palestinians & the Arab States had not attacked Israel back then, there'd have been a separate Palestinian state standing on its feet by now.

 

 

 

They thought they could take it all by force, and they ended up losing it all by 1967.

 

 

 

If it gets repartitioned tomorrow, 50-50, they will still try to take it all from Israel the next chance they get.

 

 

 

As you can tell, I am skeptical about "land for peace."

 

 

 

I hate the UN. It's an absolutely absurd organization the most they ever seem to do is "condemn" someones invasion. Pointless organization.

 

 

 

On top of that "giving land for peace " is insanity. Hitler asked for the same thing he said to Neville Chamberlain that if he could have the Sudetenland he would stop, did he?.. See how history repeats itself? There will never be peace untill the Christ returns. Most that can ever be achieved is a cease-fire.