Jagex's business plan flawed? Immature?

[ice age mage]

Hi everyone I haven't played runescape for some time but recently decided to check out the new updates and frankly I can't understand where Jagex is coming from and what they are trying to achieve with their updates.

 

 

 

As much as I have to say about the Grand exchange and removal of wilderness I won't as most of these threads are treated as spam by die hard Jagex fans. What I want to bring up is that I find it very strange how Jagex approaches different problems that arise in their game. In this thread I will use Blizzard to simply demonstrate how other companies solved similar problems which to me seem like more responsible and mature solutions.

 

 

 

1. Mature content and language

 

 

 

Now there are countless threads about the language filter Jagex uses. Why is the filter so harsh? Well Jagex made runescape to make money. No it's not about what is best for the players or what is best for you. It's solely about money. Assuming Jagex decided that by restricting content to 0 mature language they will draw in younger audience where parents would tolerate the game as it is "safe."

 

 

 

What about many players who are older and feel the filter in unnecessary? Well Jagex for reason unknown decided to flat out look past this point of view. There are many people who don't like the filter and whether or not they feel strongly enough not to stop playing the game it is a considerable part of the population.

 

 

 

In fact first thread in rants is about the censor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why is Jagex ignoring all these people, what is their gain from this?

 

 

 

So what is done by Blizzard and countless other companies that not only allows young players to be protected but adults feel like they aren't in kindergarten?

 

 

 

Language filter is an option you choose to turn on or off. Younger players' accounts are under parental control and parents decide if they want to censor mature language. And if you ever play world of warcraft the community is much more civilized because if players need to say something they can and don't spam because they are constantly censored.

 

 

 

Botting

 

 

 

Now I am not a programmer so I cannot criticize whether or not runescape has an effective anti-botting system. But what is the deal with random events? From the start this is like putting a band aid on a leaking dam and waiting for the next crack to patch. In fact if Jagex could not predict this from the start the first random event understanding bot should've raised the red flag that this strategy is not a viable solution. Instead of turning to better detection mechanism like the majority of companies do they made another one, and soon after that one was programmed in new bots another one. Jagex is in a constant race with hackers at the expense of the players. They use the "would you rather see hackers everywhere" excuse to put more of them in but it is a ridiculous reason. Jagex is a business and it is their responsibility to look after their game. When players are forced to do the job of an anti cheat system it just gives the game bad reputation.

 

 

 

A simple example is the 60 second time out limit. I am not saying that being AFK for a long period of time should not log the player out but you log out even if you are doing something like cutting trees. Now why would I click on the same tree I'm cutting within 60 seconds if I am cutting it even if I don't click it. It's not whether it's hard but whether it's necessary.

 

 

 

Because of lack of programming knowledge I cannot offer an alternative but if you look at Blizzard over 90% of all botters were banned a few weeks ago and not for a second a player was forced to repeat a stupid minigame instead of focusing on his gameplay.

 

 

Customer service

 

 

 

Now this literally made me laugh. In the pking section on runescape forum there was a sticky which contained a sentence "Wilderness is not coming back so please stop requesting it, furthermore any threads asking to bring wilderness back will be treated as spam"

 

 

 

Did the company powered by players and players only just label customer feedback as spam?

 

 

 

I want to keep this short as I don't like long posts but to wrap this up I can go on and on about strange way Jagex makes decisions about runescape. Although they have the right to do so I think they are forgetting that they are run by players and as soon they reach the point where they ignore customer input completely the game will close.

 

 

 

I tried as much as I can to make it a discussion not a rant. But you decide, thanks for reading.

[jessy87]

Because of lack of programming knowledge I cannot offer an alternative but if you look at Blizzard over 90% of all botters were banned a few weeks ago and not for a second a player was forced to repeat a stupid minigame instead of focusing on his gameplay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

bold part confuses me, clarify it please? because best case scenario i think you are referring to BH. But, before i say anything about it either way, i want confirmation.

 

 

 

 

 

edit: is my quote broken?

[ice age mage]

I was just comparing runescape's botting problem to world of warcraft's botting problem a few weeks ago over 90% of botters on WoW got banned (you can tell because there is one payed centralized bot.) World of warcraft has no random events (aka stupid minigames) and still manages to combat and prevent botters.

[baileydafrog]

so if they didnt have a problem how could 90% get bann that 9 people? 9k people?

[godsfearme]

Because of lack of programming knowledge I cannot offer an alternative but if you look at Blizzard over 90% of all botters were banned a few weeks ago and not for a second a player was forced to repeat a stupid minigame instead of focusing on his gameplay.

 

 

 

The game play of a MMORPG is everything that happens in a game. That includes the pursuit of higher levels, interaction with other character and Non Playing Characters, or as you call them stupid mini games.If you have been around recently they have done many other things to combat bots besides randoms. Randoms are just one thing they use to fulfill multiple purposes. If you seriously think that Jagax so messed up Runescape and that WOW is better stop playing and go buy WOW. Jagax is not the best business in the world or have the best plans but no business has that and for you to demand that is for you to ask something like that is utter nonsense.

[Triquos]

Does WoW have a sort of player vs player thing? If so, maybe Jagex could do what they did. Btw i'm not a pker XD never will be =D I just understand where they're coming from.

[Roberthree]

Does WoW have a sort of player vs player thing? If so, maybe Jagex could do what they did. Btw i'm not a pker XD never will be =D I just understand where they're coming from.

 

 

 

WoW's PvP reward system is similar to FoG. You win several times and trade points for a prize. If they had made it like WoW we'd still get "No pk no play!!/" morons.

[ice age mage]

Jesus how do you so bluntly miss the point. It's not suppose to be like WoW and I don't hate runescape. I think WoW has some better solutions to common MMORPG problems and I think runescape could really improve by looking into those solutions.

[godsfearme]

If a company copies copyrighted material than can be in serious trouble. Are you suggesting runescape does that? (Now I just being mean, sorry about that)

 

Edit: I don't know if the forum being down cause it or if you just joined recently but anyways Welcome to Tip.it Ice age Mage

[baileydafrog]

no answer? how do they know 90%? if they know theres 10% left why would they leave them there? where the mention of jagex banning 1000s of players? seems a tad 1 sided tbh, cant act like every1 else is perfect when they arent, but jagex is some big bad guy who does nothing to help the players

[Imcleith]

 

 

Customer service

 

 

 

Now this literally made me laugh. In the pking section on runescape forum there was a sticky which contained a sentence "Wilderness is not coming back so please stop requesting it, furthermore any threads asking to bring wilderness back will be treated as spam"

 

 

 

Did the company powered by players and players only just label customer feedback as spam?

 

 

But it's true, it's spam, they had allredy said wilderness was not coming back, and yet millions of posts where made requesting for old wilderness. The funniest part is that many of these threads where made by "Pur3proguy346" and they said "omfg u [bleep]ex narb, i wun ma old pkay bak or i r quittin, i workad hard for my 60 att nd 70 str".

[WeirdAl_fan]

Randoms although they aren't effective against bots do help the army of low level players out there and I mean the ones that need that 500gp you get for finishing some randoms... The are, however very tiresome to the higher level people that happen to be grinding a particular skill *coughs 'me'*. I mean how many times is sergent Damian going to kidnap us to make us get ready for his corps... we don't want to be in it, there is no way to join it even if we wanted to, and the exercises give no experience at all...

 

 

 

The funniest part is that many of these threads where made by "Pur3proguy346" and they said "omfg u [bleep]ex narb, i wun ma old pkay bak or i r quittin, i workad hard for my 60 att nd 70 str".

 

I alway laugh at those post and especially hard at the 'riots' that are happening all over runescape atm :lol:

[magician_xy]

About the botting:

 

Putting in the random events is really the only thing Jagex can do. You have to remember that RS is a browser based gamed, meaning the user has to download nothing. Therefore, Jagex cannot check if their program is being hacked, since no anti-hacking software is installed. WoW, since it's on a CD, automatically installs an anti-hacking program.

 

 

 

Having said that, I think the random events are a clever way to prevent bots, or at least they were. Now that bots are more advanced, they've lost that purpose. But think: would it really be RS without random events?

 

 

 

Oh, WeirdAl_fan: I LOVE your sig. It's so true!

[alp200]

You praise WOW's anti-botting software? Don't they download a program called "Warden" that is considered by many to be spyware? So what if they banned alot of bots, Jagex did that too, they'll just come back.

[Will H]

 

 

 

1. Mature content and language

 

 

 

The censor is a fairly vital part of the game, because it's for people who don't want to hear the f-bomb all the time. And people who constantly swear frankly shouldn't really be included in conversation until they stop. If they removed the censor, spamming would skyrocket because people would exercise their ability. The only thing that I would say is that since the game is 13+, the censor should be brought up to that level and no further.

 

 

 

Botting

 

 

 

Random events did not work, but they did work about two or three years ago. Also, you have to realise that Randoms were also for breaking up monotony caused by 'grinding'. They're about to take many of them down (or at least make many of them non-compulsory) because bots in the game have effectively been removed (we're talking a permanent 99% here, as long as none of the updates let though large amounts of unbalanced trading, but BH is an unavoidable weakness), better than the very temporary 90% you're claiming Blizzard achieved.

 

 

 

The time out limit really isn't an issue, if you get timed out, you're AFKing, and that's one of the Jagex rules not to do. I don't know what you're doing if it takes you more than a minute to cut a log.

 

 

 

Oh, and 'focusing on gameplay'? That's grinding, and is something Runescape at least tries to avoid, unlike WoW. Playing a random event is 'gameplay' as well anyway.

 

 

Customer service

 

 

 

"Wilderness is not coming back so please stop requesting it, furthermore any threads asking to bring wilderness back will be treated as spam"

 

 

There is nothing wrong with this because it's an issue which Jagex wants to clear up. Asking something which has been already clearly answered is considered spam.

 

[Tonis]

An error in your conclusions is that non of the people who can be considered mature use the language which use consider "mature." Unlike a few other (part of those who are behind these spammed up posts under Rants forum), mature grown-ups and mature kids know how to behave.

 

 

 

I understand it's hard to understand all updates of more than half a year at once, unless you work them through very carefully. So, after previous non viable trys, late last year's updates were their viable method to deal with bots, which is also over other's 90% success. While it's quite likely that at the end this 90% acts like the wiser 10% part, remember, we noticed a few significant drops in number of bots before last solution in RuneScape as well. It, viable solution, had its consequences, even my own gaming excitement got hurt pretty badly, but that's what being understanding is all about, after all, I, regular play, won from these updates as well, not only lost.

 

 

 

I for example enjoy random event minigames and quite likely I'm not the only one. Though, they probably do something about randoms now, if they already didn't, keep an eye on future updates.

 

 

 

The way this game is run, makes it RuneScape. Otherwise I could go and play these other games you named as well.

[Ixindor]

I could have sworn I read somewhere that Jagex was going to be reducing the amount of randoms because the are doing a good job of beating back the bots. Just remember them saying it got pushed back as a less important update, so it may take awhile.

 

 

 

I do agree with the optional chat filter. I really do. I hate the filter in this game. I really do. :wall:

 

 

 

OH and not to stir up the bee hive lol, but the Wilderness is not coming back and the players that want it are in the Minority. Sure they can SPAM a lot, but its not doing any good and Jagex obviously has plans for the Wild. So, I highly doubt they will scrap possibly months of work, just to please a small minority of players.

[RSgamer]

-inserts 2gp-

 

 

 

The chat filter is there to PROTECT the players. Granted it's strictness, but there's tons of defaming things to say in the real world, and odds are *GASP!* it's censored! If there was no filter, there'd be a severe increase of suicides over gaming because of name calling, cyber bulling, and every other thing you can think of besides being hacked.

 

 

 

You have to remember that JAGeX is a small company, and is not big enough to "take down" or "sue" the gold farmers that Activision-Blizzard can. They have more cash, more high-paid lawyers, and more C/S representatives.

 

 

 

The Randoms DID work, as some bots did die to the tree spirit, the golem, and the troll. Players got a joy of looting the dead bots pile, making sure their loot never got to their customer. To the person who said randoms are being worked on, they are. Some are being removed as not being as "effective" or as "worth the effort".

 

 

 

Now to the customer service issue.

 

 

 

Let's pretend we're working for JAGeX, we removed wildy due to the RWIT players, and receive the same complaints over and over again to remove the wild, even though it was removed for the good of the game. Surely, you would treat it as spam, as the 50,000th post would get annoying. It's enough to flog a dead horse, but the wildy was removed for the good of the game!

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm showing off my knowledge for my college major again... :geek:

[highlanders]

-inserts 2gp-

 

 

 

The chat filter is there to PROTECT the players. Granted it's strictness, but there's tons of defaming things to say in the real world, and odds are *GASP!* it's censored! If there was no filter, there'd be a severe increase of suicides over gaming because of name calling, cyber bulling, and every other thing you can think of besides being hacked.

 

If some people would suicide over something stupid said over an internet chat, then you'd have to wonder how long they'd even survive to begin with. If Rs doesn't kill them off, then no doubt some other insignificant thing will.

 

 

 

-snip-

 

 

 

The Randoms DID work, as some bots did die to the tree spirit, the golem, and the troll. Players got a joy of looting the dead bots pile, making sure their loot never got to their customer.

 

The only bots that died to randoms were the poorly conceived and player-made ones. The bots that the gold farmers were using were flawless. Many of us saw them bot through mimes, mazes, and basically any other random, and more efficiently than human beings.

 

 

 

When a new random was introduced, the bots were defenceless to it for a few days, until the programmers(hackers) had written up a new script to bot through it. Basically, randoms could do nothing else but slow down, as soon as the botters had their script to bot through the new randoms, Jagex was back at case 1. It is a poor strategy, no matter how you look at it. All that time Jagex spent to program their randoms, only to see their randoms be efficient for a few days, and in turn annoy all the genuine players forever.

 

 

[RSgamer]

 

If some people would suicide over something stupid said over an internet chat, then you'd have to wonder how long they'd even survive to begin with. If Rs doesn't kill them off, then no doubt some other insignificant thing will.

 

 

 

In this stage of Political Correctness, even the littlest thing can set people off. My case still stands.

 

 

 

The only bots that died to randoms were the poorly conceived and player-made ones. The bots that the gold farmers were using were flawless. Many of us saw them bot through mimes, mazes, and basically any other random, and more efficiently than human beings.

 

 

 

When a new random was introduced, the bots were defenceless to it for a few days, until the programmers(hackers) had written up a new script to bot through it. Basically, randoms could do nothing else but slow down, as soon as the botters had their script to bot through the new randoms, Jagex was back at case 1. It is a poor strategy, no matter how you look at it. All that time Jagex spent to program their randoms, only to see their randoms be efficient for a few days, and in turn annoy all the genuine players forever.

 

 

 

 

Wrong again, my friend. Back before the edgeville door was removed, you could trap the bot with the spirit, making it get walloped, or trade spam it (although it is not recommended). And some players couldn't keep quiet about a bot dying. They JUST had to say "bots gonna die!!1111!shift1!!!" All bots made to harvest gold/materials have one flaw, so do the humans. I'll leave it to you to figure out what the one flaw everyone shares.

[highlanders]

 

In this stage of Political Correctness, even the littlest thing can set people off. My case still stands.

 

 

 

 

The thing is, the world is not a stage of "political correctness". Someone ready to suicide over an internet insult won't survive to high school, let alone adulthood.

 

 

 

 

 

Wrong again, my friend. Back before the edgeville door was removed, you could trap the bot with the spirit, making it get walloped, or trade spam it (although it is not recommended). And some players couldn't keep quiet about a bot dying. They JUST had to say "bots gonna die!!1111!shift1!!!" All bots made to harvest gold/materials have one flaw, so do the humans. I'll leave it to you to figure out what the one flaw everyone shares.

 

 

 

The randoms were a bad decision. They did not stop the bots, they would only slow them down for a few days, at the dispense of the genuine players. It's simply sad that the players had to resort to acting themselves in order to stop them, that should not have happened. By the way, don't change the subject, random-wise bots were perfect, like it or not.

[RSgamer]

 

 

 

The thing is, the world is not a stage of "political correctness". Someone ready to suicide over an internet insult won't survive to high school, let alone adulthood.

 

 

 

 

High Schools have suicide counselors on call. GF.

 

 

 

 

 

The randoms were a bad decision. They did not stop the bots, they would only slow them down for a few days, at the dispense of the genuine players. It's simply sad that the players had to resort to acting themselves in order to stop them, that should not have happened. By the way, don't change the subject, random-wise bots were perfect, like it or not.

 

 

 

NOTHING is perfect. Bottom line. Everything fails given due time.

 

 

 

[/discussion]

[berbatovsky]

Bots in Runescape are basically gone now or at least less intrusive than they used to be, randoms are slightly unneccesary now and annoying but its really not that big a deal, every 1 hour or so you get a random that takes 30 secs-3 minutes.......also the maze random is awesome (i got 170ish coal and 250ish deaths yesterday).

[godsfearme]

You have to remember that RS is a browser based gamed, meaning the user has to download nothing. Therefore, Jagex cannot check if their program is being hacked, since no anti-hacking software is installed.

 

 

 

Someone doesn't know much about computers and how much cookies (not the ones that taste so good)and other things you download can affect your web browsing experience. I know for sure that you get tons of cookies and junk from runescape I just not for sure how much of it is used to protect the sanctity of its game.

 

 

 

Randoms yes are unnecessary to protect the game at this stage, but they serve features like giving you free stuff. New players are the majority of what the randoms are made for. And getting to the point berbatovsky made it is not the big of deal. It doesn't take long to complete them and you get some nice rewards depending on what random you get.

[Kitabma]

I like random events. They may or may not do anything to stop bots (I wouldn't know) but they're a big part of RS and always have been. And I like anything that gives me free items :)