"Refining/secondary" skills not rewarding enough?

[zaybex]

First, I'd like to ask what the point of this thread is. Is it to convince nobody to do these skills since they are so "worthless"? Then where, might I ask, will you get Prayer Potions, when everyone is cutting wood instead of training the worthless Herblore?

 

 

 

Well unless your idea of fun is like putting 14 snape grass into vials or stringing bows..and if you do have fun stringing bows...you need help. Personally I play to get richer, get combat higher which in turn allows me to buy cooler stuff, own people at cwars with better ways,etc. So yea for me money kinda does equal fun. Money doesnt buy happiness, but it sure does buy cool armour,etc :D

 

 

If I need help because I spend money buying herbs and seconds and making them into potions for a loss because I like to see that shiny 57/57 by the picture of the herb instead of 1/1, then you need help because you spend money buying "cool armour" because you like to see the shiny colors on your avatar.

 

 

 

Really, it's all just pixels and bytes. None of it is worth dirt.

 

 

 

We play for fun. If you're not having fun putting snape grass into potions, find something else to put them in.

 

but guess what, that armour makes me stronger and lets me own more monsters,etc,etc. while that shiny 57 doesnt do anything >.>

 

 

 

and why are you quoting my unedited post, i agreed that it was kinda harsh and bigoted.

 

 

 

the point of my thread was that secondary skills are unrewarding, need a makeover/uptade and that there isnt much of a point in doing these skills as refined materials arent needed in bulk(other than pots).

 

What armour? You never clarified. Castlewars armour isn't necessarily stronger than, say, dragon or barrows armour. Sure, rune canes and top hats are spiffy, yet they don't help much in the defense department. And the shiny 57 allows me to own- I mean, make more potions. What good is owning monsters, anyway?

 

 

 

I quoted your unedited post because this is the internet, and once you say something, it doesn't go away. Be careful what you write.

 

 

 

And if you still haven't caught it, everything I've pointed out about Herblore (and other seconds, but I am better with Herblore) is exactly the same as what you've said about owning. Only difference is that you're making money, I'm losing it.

 

 

 

Again, it's a game, let people have fun with it whether they make money or lose it. Just play it your way and laugh silently at all the fools who keep buying your herbs and making your potions.

[Sy_Accursed]

Refining/Secondary skills in all mmorpgs are NEVER as profitable as gathering skills.

 

Why?

 

 

 

In the world of mmorpgs everything has both a cash value AND an xp value. Gathered items have a decent value and make profit because they most nothing to do and still have the xp value in them from secondary skills. Secondary skills products have less value than their ingredients because that xp value no longer exsists and they are reduced to having no direct xp value. The only times this is not true is when the gathered item is so easy to aquire in huge amounts and it is then processed into many different things eg pure essence. It is so easy to get millions of pure essence that the supply is very high thus making the price low, the fact it can then become many many different things means, however, no single rune is in a major overuspply and therefore mantains value. Equally in the case of runes they still hold a huge xp value to a mage as they are vital to gaining xp.

 

 

 

However with all other skills this is not true it takes ALOT of time to gather herbs or fish or ores in order and they are worth alot therefore due to a limited supply and the huge xp value they each hold.

 

However once they are processed they loss value as they are no longer vital to any particualry training.

 

I mean pure essence is vital for runecrafters. Runes are vital for mages.

 

Ores are vital for smiths. But the smithed items are useless to the majority who already have thier weapons/armour or have high end armour already

 

Herbs are vtial to herblorists. But the potions they make are not a vital need for training.

 

 

 

And so on and so forth. Basically secondary skills make a loss when you buy then because your taking an item with great xp value and remvoing the xp value from it.

[ydrasil]

 

I see my mistake, I seemed to have forgot that only the potion is made in one of those methods. If we assume that on average it takes 10 seconds to make 1 prayer potion, then 360 can be made per hour. This means that within that hour you have lost 200,880gp. To collect the items to make the same amount would take 6 hours (numbers are way off :lol: ). This leaves you with 5 hours "fee time". So if you make over 40.1k/h, it is better to buy the product and then make.

 

 

 

Also note I have assumed the buying/selling of the necessary items through the ge to be instantaneous. Just as I have assumed the transportation between the different areas you use to gain the items yourself (not the actual collecting though). I mean by that, swapping to lunar magic and using waterbirth island teleport to collect the snape grass to be 0 seconds, even though it isn't.

 

 

 

As for simply buying the product, I didn't calculate that I admit. Though I thought the discussion was about the difference in collecting and buying/making. Buying the finished product would not cost "0gp" as you say, it is the full price of 6,689gp at 0 seconds of time (assume GE instantaneous). You gain no experience, use no time, and end up with the finished product. First i'll compare this to collecting yourself to buying outright. This means if you can make over 435k/h on average, it is better off buying the item rather then collecting.

 

 

 

Also when compared to buying the needed items and making the potion. The time taken can be assumed to be 10 seconds (time to make potion). This means in an hour you could make 360 of them (numbers are not exact remember ;) ) This means that this should only occur if you make over 2.2m/h. Keeping in mind you gain experience, and that has a value, making it over 2.2m. This number believe it or not, is actually very low. You could even assume that each prayer potion bought takes 1 second to buy through GE. Meaning to buy the same amount of prayer potions (360) would take 6 minutes leaving you with 54 minutes free. to make up for the loss in money over 2.45m/h needs to be made as you have less time to make up for the loss in money. If 9 seconds each to be bought through GE, 22m/h needs to be made on average (for the remaining 6 minutes).

 

 

 

So that shows another reason why I assume GE to be instantaneous.

 

 

 

I hope I answered everything there and sorry if it was messy and hard to understand : . But as you can see, the best thing to do is to buy the items, and make yourself.

 

 

 

P.S If i made any mistakes, let me know #-o

 

 

 

I will try to respond to each paragraph independently.

 

 

 

1.Obviously your numbers are way off as it is rather hard to determine how fast you collect ranarrs, whether it is farming or chaos druids or whatever. However, I will stick with your far-fetched numbers. And well your intention was correct but you made a huge mistake in your comparison, you assumed that 360 prayer pots cost 200k.....they cost 2.2mil. So if you make under 440k an hour, you should collect the materials. Or if you collected the materials, then sold materials on ge, then bought 360 prayer pots you essentially make 520k an hour. So anyone who can make over 520k+ an hour should make/buy, unfortunately not alot of people fall into the 520+ an hour category.

 

 

 

2.The switching to waterbirth etc can be integrated into the 5 hour time that you gave.

 

 

 

3.You are correct on mostly everything there.

 

 

 

4.Agh..this paragraph is full of errors. Aright let me start. First of all let me make your entire argument collapse. Whenever you calculated the costs for buying/making you never calculated the amount of cash it takes to actually buy raw materials, only the difference. Before I go on, let me say that the amount of time you calculated for each item to be bought through ge is ridicolous, no one buys items 1 at a time. I'd say that you can buy all 360 in less than 10 seconds. Since that paragraph is rather messy ill try to show you a comparison to show where you went wrong

 

 

 

Buying/Making(360 p pots)

 

Time-1 hour

 

Money Lost-near 2.6mil

 

 

 

Buying

 

Time:less than a minute

 

Money lost-near 2.2mil

 

 

 

So unless your caluculation of exp is

 

 

 

Exp of 360 prayer pots=400k + 1 hour time.

 

 

 

I dont know about you but buying is obviously the better option me. :wall:

 

So that was my mistake. While I was working it out I noticed the numbers were not what I thought they would be, just couldn't work out why (hence the "P.S." at the end). I agree with the 520k+/h as being the line between collecting/selling and buying/making.

 

 

 

The difference for outright bought and buying supplies and making is 200,880gp, 31.5k experience, and an unknown amount of time. Time buying through the GE cannot be calculated imo. I have put 170k Natures in GE once and they took between 1-2 hours to all sell with people buying between around 1-15k at a time. On another occasion I have put 140k Natures in GE, the progress bar turned green instantly. Both at average price, and roughly the same amount. However the GE can work while you are off the computer which further supports a very tiny time also. So while I did get my numbers wrong, if the average time to buy through GE is increased, you do still have to make more money to pay it off. Although that only comes into play if it takes over an hour to buy.

 

 

 

Now, the excuse I shall be using for such silly mistakes is that school holidays has started and my brain is operating at a lower energy level to conserve its power. Sounds good right? :

[Indigo_Aqua]

Or perhaps craft/smith armours to make sharper, with a chance of breaking the armour. Succesfully making the armour with sharper edges or w/e would give armour strength bonuses and would make it untradable. I think thats a decent solution for smithing.

 

and one day after the update, you'll see a bunch of pures rioting over their lost weapons. :wall:

 

 

 

Why do you have to loose the item? maybe it'll be damaged so you have to pay money to repair it?

 

 

 

Also I agree with you on the fact that you loose loads of money to gain nothing but more ways to loose money #-o

[green9090]

Or perhaps craft/smith armours to make sharper, with a chance of breaking the armour. Succesfully making the armour with sharper edges or w/e would give armour strength bonuses and would make it untradable. I think thats a decent solution for smithing.

 

and one day after the update, you'll see a bunch of pures rioting over their lost weapons. :wall:

 

 

 

Why do you have to loose the item? maybe it'll be damaged so you have to pay money to repair it?

 

 

 

Also I agree with you on the fact that you loose loads of money to gain nothing but more ways to loose money #-o

 

Breaking armor = more demand for armor = actual point in smiths making thousands of sets of armor.

[nightzero]

Or perhaps craft/smith armours to make sharper, with a chance of breaking the armour. Succesfully making the armour with sharper edges or w/e would give armour strength bonuses and would make it untradable. I think thats a decent solution for smithing.

 

and one day after the update, you'll see a bunch of pures rioting over their lost weapons. :wall:

 

 

 

Why do you have to loose the item? maybe it'll be damaged so you have to pay money to repair it?

 

 

 

Also I agree with you on the fact that you loose loads of money to gain nothing but more ways to loose money #-o

 

Breaking armor = more demand for armor = actual point in smiths making thousands of sets of armor.

 

Yea, the armour would have to break, really the only reason rune armour is still worth ANYTHING is because of high alch.

 

 

 

btw green, do you want me to put a link to your suggestions thread in my first post?

[CD_Paladin_C0]

The reason skills are smithing are useless anymore is because jagex let time take its toll on them. I remember when r2hs were millions of gp each, why? Because only a few people could make them.

 

Nowadays every single npc anymore drops multiple rune peices and treasure trails hand rune out like candy.

 

Then jagex never did update the skill to make it useful so you get 99 smithers who can make rune plates that aren't worth what they cost. Hell, people don't even buy rune plates from the store anymore because there's so many obtains from other places which makes it cheaper than store price.

[Zox]

It's called fun. If you play the game with an "Wtf, I'm not making the highest amount of money I can!" attitude, I feel bad for you. I gather my own materials because I feel good when I get a certain level or achieve a certain goal.

[nightzero]

It's called fun. If you play the game with an "Wtf, I'm not making the highest amount of money I can!" attitude, I feel bad for you. I gather my own materials because I feel good when I get a certain level or achieve a certain goal.

 

I respect that you wanna gather your own materials. but im rather not waste my time doing things i deem boring..

[nightzero]

The reason skills are smithing are useless anymore is because jagex let time take its toll on them. I remember when r2hs were millions of gp each, why? Because only a few people could make them.

 

Nowadays every single npc anymore drops multiple rune peices and treasure trails hand rune out like candy.

 

Then jagex never did update the skill to make it useful so you get 99 smithers who can make rune plates that aren't worth what they cost. Hell, people don't even buy rune plates from the store anymore because there's so many obtains from other places which makes it cheaper than store price.

 

Yea, exactly my point smithing is in need of a huge makeover as it's one of the few skills that has something new you get at 99....unfortunately its one of the worst 99s to achieve.

[green9090]

btw green, do you want me to put a link to your suggestions thread in my first post?

 

If you like, that would be great :D

[brando13a]

That's a brilliant idea Green. Making things that benefit yourself, not others.

 

 

 

Not sure about the rest of you, but this little line here raises a few red flags for me... Isnt doing things for others the definition of good or some likewise nonsense? I dont remember runescape being the pinacle of kindnass and comradery, but if the point of raising skills to 99 in the end benifits the community more than yourself, isnt that a good thing all around? selflessness and valour and.. whatever else Ghandi was knocking on about back in the day.

 

 

 

I mean yeah, great if you want some perks for yourself, but you do have access to.. everything? whats so horrible about that, if you have 99 in a refining skill, chances are you have 99 in the prerequisite skill too, meaning you can be self sufficient, or just make ridiculous amounts of money with the latter (being the prerequisite skill) and do what you need to with the former (the refining skill). All in all, dont be greedy, we have more than enough of that.

 

 

 

PS- im not flaming you for saying this, so dont be offended, im just stating some socialogical fact-ish things.

[coolcobra77]

i see what your saying but looking at some of your examples (namely herblore and fletching) you bought EVERYTHING according to your calculations. Now its my interpretation is that you shouldn't be able to purchase every raw material, make a product, and expect to make a profit because that would make it way too easy to level up these skills.

 

 

 

Fletching,(yew longs) you can buy flax or yew logs or buy nothing and you'll make a profit.

 

-Buy flax you'll make 500gp profit (flax is 90 each at post time)

 

- buy logs = 400gp (400+gp at post time)

 

- buy nothing = 600gp profit (this is assuming you are not alching them and sellin on GE)

 

- buy everything = 80gp profit per bow.

 

 

 

but if you want to alch, and expect to buy nats you won't make any profit purchasing all materials.

 

 

 

Herblore- chaos druids people, and snape grass is easy to get on waterbirth island. (prayer pots)

 

Sara brews- your going to have to buy birdsnest, but you can get toadflax from other places than buying.

 

 

 

If you want to make money you have to be self-sufficent somewhere, and putting everything together does not count. If you want fast exp you can buy everything and lose money but if you aim is money then you can't rely on other people for everything.

[coolcobra77]

The problem isn't that there is more secondary trainers then primary, its that almost all of the secondary items stay in the marketplace after creation.

 

 

 

Primary items can be sold right as you refine them. Once some 1 uses a primary item, that item doesn't exist anymore. With secondary items (Rune 2H from smithing as an example) it stays in the economy and nothing happens to it that will make the amount of Rune 2H's go down.

 

 

 

Smithing used to make alot of money because there was no rune armor in economy. But now since there is there is no need for smithing because we already have the right amount and the act of creating more is unnecessary.

 

 

 

Jagex really needs to fix this.

 

 

 

Example of a fix that jagex could do is maybe create some type of "enchanted" armor/weapons. Where uses can use an item on the metal based (bronze, iron, steel, black, mith, addy, rune, dragon) and be able to make it be more effective. But a side effect of enchanting the armor is that it might be destroyed in the process of enchanting it. That way not only does armor and weapons into the economy from smithing, its also leaving the economy through enchanting.

 

 

 

Jagex has done stuff to reduce this effect, recently with summoning they created a NPC that allowed you to trade your summoning pouches.

 

 

 

sorry for double posting but i had to quote this because there is huge flaw here.

 

 

 

We don't need to make some kind of armor/weapon that disappears after awhile to lessen the amount of items in economy because items are being passed on and disappear daily. Take for example the rune 2h. There are 2 ways this keeps cycling through economy and it is not becoming filled with too many rune 2hes.

 

 

 

1. New players. Rs gets new players everyday and someday they all will be able to buy rune 2h new buyers = possible market.

 

 

 

2. these weapons do disappear without needing to break/ enchanting destruction/ etc. It's called death. People die from a multitude of reasons and after they die they're weapons are gone or taken by someone else (bounty hunter). So do you know what this person has to do now? buy another rune scimmy/ rune 2h/ etc!. We DO NOT need to make something like your enchantment idea because these items are being constantly bought and lost everyday.

[Ed_Warrior]

Pretty much my feeling on the best way to revive all these skills that are money sinks is to just make them have some sort of benefit that you get that others cannot use. I posted huge reply in green's thread about what I would like to see and Im sure all of you could come up with other ideas as well. I just feel at this point it would be to difficult to find a way to make these skills profitable so they should just try and make it so you get something out of it for spending all that money.

[nightzero]

i see what your saying but looking at some of your examples (namely herblore and fletching) you bought EVERYTHING according to your calculations. Now its my interpretation is that you shouldn't be able to purchase every raw material, make a product, and expect to make a profit because that would make it way too easy to level up these skills.

 

 

 

Fletching,(yew longs) you can buy flax or yew logs or buy nothing and you'll make a profit.

 

-Buy flax you'll make 500gp profit (flax is 90 each at post time)

 

- buy logs = 400gp (400+gp at post time)

 

- buy nothing = 600gp profit (this is assuming you are not alching them and sellin on GE)

 

- buy everything = 80gp profit per bow.

 

 

 

but if you want to alch, and expect to buy nats you won't make any profit purchasing all materials.

 

 

 

Herblore- chaos druids people, and snape grass is easy to get on waterbirth island. (prayer pots)

 

Sara brews- your going to have to buy birdsnest, but you can get toadflax from other places than buying.

 

 

 

If you want to make money you have to be self-sufficent somewhere, and putting everything together does not count. If you want fast exp you can buy everything and lose money but if you aim is money then you can't rely on other people for everything.

 

 

 

You have a rather valid point here, some of these skills would be way too fast and easy if you made a profit. but the main point of my topic was not about the loss you make leveling it but how the only thing you have to look forward is more loss...

 

 

 

Look at summoning where sure you spend millions of seconds and shards...but you get amazing things in return. For example spirit terrorbird allows me to carry more food for slaying, so instead of monkfish ill use tuna since i can carry more. Monkfish is about 5x more expensive than tuna. so in the long run summoning is very useful. in the long run the skills i mentioned are very costly.

 

 

 

The problem isn't that there is more secondary trainers then primary, its that almost all of the secondary items stay in the marketplace after creation.

 

 

 

Primary items can be sold right as you refine them. Once some 1 uses a primary item, that item doesn't exist anymore. With secondary items (Rune 2H from smithing as an example) it stays in the economy and nothing happens to it that will make the amount of Rune 2H's go down.

 

 

 

Smithing used to make alot of money because there was no rune armor in economy. But now since there is there is no need for smithing because we already have the right amount and the act of creating more is unnecessary.

 

 

 

Jagex really needs to fix this.

 

 

 

Example of a fix that jagex could do is maybe create some type of "enchanted" armor/weapons. Where uses can use an item on the metal based (bronze, iron, steel, black, mith, addy, rune, dragon) and be able to make it be more effective. But a side effect of enchanting the armor is that it might be destroyed in the process of enchanting it. That way not only does armor and weapons into the economy from smithing, its also leaving the economy through enchanting.

 

 

 

Jagex has done stuff to reduce this effect, recently with summoning they created a NPC that allowed you to trade your summoning pouches.

 

 

 

sorry for double posting but i had to quote this because there is huge flaw here.

 

 

 

We don't need to make some kind of armor/weapon that disappears after awhile to lessen the amount of items in economy because items are being passed on and disappear daily. Take for example the rune 2h. There are 2 ways this keeps cycling through economy and it is not becoming filled with too many rune 2hes.

 

 

 

1. New players. Rs gets new players everyday and someday they all will be able to buy rune 2h new buyers = possible market.

 

 

 

2. these weapons do disappear without needing to break/ enchanting destruction/ etc. It's called death. People die from a multitude of reasons and after they die they're weapons are gone or taken by someone else (bounty hunter). So do you know what this person has to do now? buy another rune scimmy/ rune 2h/ etc!. We DO NOT need to make something like your enchantment idea because these items are being constantly bought and lost everyday.

 

 

 

this post wasnt very great.

 

 

 

1.Sure there are new players, but for every 100 people that get to level 40, 1000 rune 2h's have been gotten from drops, treasure trails and smithing.

 

 

 

2.And the guy that got the rune 2h? guess what, he sells that 2h, possible back to the guy he pked it from...

 

We definetely need something like enchantment because the only reason some rune items arent 5k is because of their alch value.

 

 

 

As for your next post, please think before you reply.

[green9090]

That's a brilliant idea Green. Making things that benefit yourself, not others.

 

 

 

Not sure about the rest of you, but this little line here raises a few red flags for me... Isnt doing things for others the definition of good or some likewise nonsense? I dont remember runescape being the pinacle of kindnass and comradery, but if the point of raising skills to 99 in the end benifits the community more than yourself, isnt that a good thing all around? selflessness and valour and.. whatever else Ghandi was knocking on about back in the day.

 

 

 

I mean yeah, great if you want some perks for yourself, but you do have access to.. everything? whats so horrible about that, if you have 99 in a refining skill, chances are you have 99 in the prerequisite skill too, meaning you can be self sufficient, or just make ridiculous amounts of money with the latter (being the prerequisite skill) and do what you need to with the former (the refining skill). All in all, dont be greedy, we have more than enough of that.

 

 

 

PS- im not flaming you for saying this, so dont be offended, im just stating some socialogical fact-ish things.

 

The wording in Tim's comment probably wasn't the best, but I don't see this as selfishness. Basically, I work my [wagon] off for 99 herblore, and along the way I essentially throw money away. People who need them benefit from the cheap potions I produce, but I never benefit. I never see any sort of return for slaving away to get 99 herblore. This is what needs to change. Herblorists will still benefit others by providing cheap potions, they'll just get something out of it to make it worthwhile.

[Myweponsg00d]

i see what your saying but looking at some of your examples (namely herblore and fletching) you bought EVERYTHING according to your calculations. Now its my interpretation is that you shouldn't be able to purchase every raw material, make a product, and expect to make a profit because that would make it way too easy to level up these skills.

 

 

 

Fletching,(yew longs) you can buy flax or yew logs or buy nothing and you'll make a profit.

 

-Buy flax you'll make 500gp profit (flax is 90 each at post time)

 

- buy logs = 400gp (400+gp at post time)

 

- buy nothing = 600gp profit (this is assuming you are not alching them and sellin on GE)

 

- buy everything = 80gp profit per bow.

 

 

 

but if you want to alch, and expect to buy nats you won't make any profit purchasing all materials.

 

 

 

Herblore- chaos druids people, and snape grass is easy to get on waterbirth island. (prayer pots)

 

Sara brews- your going to have to buy birdsnest, but you can get toadflax from other places than buying.

 

 

 

If you want to make money you have to be self-sufficent somewhere, and putting everything together does not count. If you want fast exp you can buy everything and lose money but if you aim is money then you can't rely on other people for everything.

 

 

 

 

 

You really missed the boat here. If you gather any of the materials, you aren't making the profit with THE FLETCHING SKILL. You're making it with woodcutting, crafting strings, or just gathering stuff. No matter if you gather anything on your own or not, your profit or loss from FLETCHING alone will ALWAYS be the same. Why? Because imagine you are "self sufficient" and gather 1000 yew logs and 1000 bow strings without actually spending any physical GP. However, you are now in posession of the equal ammount of wealth that you would have had to spend in order to buy the stuff in the first place. I mean, you could sell the logs and bowstrings, right? Then you'd have the money that you could spend on logs on bowstrings to make 1000 logs. Looking at the isolated production skills shows that theres really no such thing as being "self sufficient". There is always the same profit or loss when you look only at the cases when you are gaining fletching exp. Gathering logs isn't fletching, and therefore that profit is not from fletching.

[LordBlk]

Even though these "secondary" skills may waste money i know they are still profitable.

 

Buy 2 coal and 1 iron and smith into steel. the coal and iron cost like 300 approx and the bar sells for 600 approx that make a 300 profit from a "secondary" skill.

 

herbole may not be profitable but people like myself like to level it to be self sufficent and nt have to buy anti poison pots or prayer pots from the ge. Besides that herbole is still fun and u are overcome with a sense of accomplishment when u finally mix the ingredients u so dedicatetly collected.

 

Fletching is the same, besides in my view being fun and adding to my woodcutting (if you are self suffcient) the process of stringing bows while talking to passers by seems like a pleasent concept.

 

Crafting on the otherhand is the complete opposite of this argument. I do not have the exact figures but buying green d hides , crafting into green dhide tops and selling = profit. That is why the dhide tanning industry has flourished and tanners run from banks just to tan hides.

 

 

 

Even though i may not have high flethcing , crafting, smithing or herbole levels i enjoy leveling them because i pay $5 a month to have access to them and passing time while leveling them is fun in a way. All skills are important and bind runescape into the beautiful game it is today. Every penny, herb , ore, log and roll of thread counts!

[Troacctid]

Even though these "secondary" skills may waste money i know they are still profitable.

 

Buy 2 coal and 1 iron and smith into steel. the coal and iron cost like 300 approx and the bar sells for 600 approx that make a 300 profit from a "secondary" skill.

 

herbole may not be profitable but people like myself like to level it to be self sufficent and nt have to buy anti poison pots or prayer pots from the ge. Besides that herbole is still fun and u are overcome with a sense of accomplishment when u finally mix the ingredients u so dedicatetly collected.

 

Fletching is the same, besides in my view being fun and adding to my woodcutting (if you are self suffcient) the process of stringing bows while talking to passers by seems like a pleasent concept.

 

But wouldn't it be nice if there was more rewards to it anyway? I think it would make everyone happier.

[nightzero]

Even though these "secondary" skills may waste money i know they are still profitable.

 

Buy 2 coal and 1 iron and smith into steel. the coal and iron cost like 300 approx and the bar sells for 600 approx that make a 300 profit from a "secondary" skill.

 

herbole may not be profitable but people like myself like to level it to be self sufficent and nt have to buy anti poison pots or prayer pots from the ge. Besides that herbole is still fun and u are overcome with a sense of accomplishment when u finally mix the ingredients u so dedicatetly collected.

 

Fletching is the same, besides in my view being fun and adding to my woodcutting (if you are self suffcient) the process of stringing bows while talking to passers by seems like a pleasent concept.

 

Crafting on the otherhand is the complete opposite of this argument. I do not have the exact figures but buying green d hides , crafting into green dhide tops and selling = profit. That is why the dhide tanning industry has flourished and tanners run from banks just to tan hides.

 

 

 

Even though i may not have high flethcing , crafting, smithing or herbole levels i enjoy leveling them because i pay $5 a month to have access to them and passing time while leveling them is fun in a way. All skills are important and bind runescape into the beautiful game it is today. Every penny, herb , ore, log and roll of thread counts!

 

 

 

First of all coal and iron add up to 450-500. Also smelting is like i mentioned before, an in between from mining to smithing. notice that the skill is called smithing not smelting. therefore smelting is still half a primary, half a secondary skill.

 

 

 

Yes well self-accomplishment is something so thats individual opinion. fletching does not make you self-sufficient as do you really plan on using the 10k yew bows thay fletched? prolly not even one, since most ppl started using rune cbows anyway.

 

 

 

d hide is profit for tanners but the profit has lessened. the crafters however ALWAYS lose money. please dont talk if you dont know. btw they dont sell d hide tops, they alch them.

 

 

 

Sure all skills are important but thats not the point of the thread, the point is that these skills arent rewarding enough. althought your last paragraph did bring tears to me eyes :P such beautiful words :thumbsup:

[nightzero]

That's a brilliant idea Green. Making things that benefit yourself, not others.

 

 

 

Not sure about the rest of you, but this little line here raises a few red flags for me... Isnt doing things for others the definition of good or some likewise nonsense? I dont remember runescape being the pinacle of kindnass and comradery, but if the point of raising skills to 99 in the end benifits the community more than yourself, isnt that a good thing all around? selflessness and valour and.. whatever else Ghandi was knocking on about back in the day.

 

 

 

I mean yeah, great if you want some perks for yourself, but you do have access to.. everything? whats so horrible about that, if you have 99 in a refining skill, chances are you have 99 in the prerequisite skill too, meaning you can be self sufficient, or just make ridiculous amounts of money with the latter (being the prerequisite skill) and do what you need to with the former (the refining skill). All in all, dont be greedy, we have more than enough of that.

 

 

 

PS- im not flaming you for saying this, so dont be offended, im just stating some socialogical fact-ish things.

 

so is having a spottier cape being greedy? how about a fire cape? rune defender? slayer helmet? maybe he didnt word it right, he means to have some benefits that only the person with the high level can have.

[Myweponsg00d]

I'd just like to mention that the new Slayer rings were a great update to crafting in my opinion. If I didn't already have 75+ crafting, I would surely be getting it after the slayer ring update. What do you guys think of this specific update? And would you like to see more updates like this? (a high level required to produce a useful and untradeable good) I would love this except I would like to see stuff that required at least 95+ in a level, or maybe even 99, so that it would be very hard to attain all of the "Really good" items in the game." This would give people a reason to specialize in certain skills rather than just going for well rounded skills and getting a higher skill total.

[green9090]

I'd just like to mention that the new Slayer rings were a great update to crafting in my opinion. If I didn't already have 75+ crafting, I would surely be getting it after the slayer ring update. What do you guys think of this specific update? And would you like to see more updates like this? (a high level required to produce a useful and untradeable good) I would love this except I would like to see stuff that required at least 95+ in a level, or maybe even 99, so that it would be very hard to attain all of the "Really good" items in the game." This would give people a reason to specialize in certain skills rather than just going for well rounded skills and getting a higher skill total.

 

Indeed, my only beef at all with slayer rings is that they can be made via assist (assuming you've bought the ability to make them). It doesn't bother me too much, but it would be really cool to see something for exclusively highish middle level crafting. Especially since crafting is such a difficult skill.

[RyderJ]

I've made this point to several friends on many occasions.

 

 

 

With as many people as there are at 99 in these skills, there's no value placed on the services provided by each skill. No longer would one pay for having their sharks cooked without fail. No more would one look to a skiller to have sara brews made, to have black dragonhide crafted into something useful, all these services are meaningless.

 

 

 

Skill capes and the GE did this. I'm not saying they were bad updates, but they doomed the productivity and usefulness of us skillers.