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#56461
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I think that's a pretty big get out of jail free card...


missed this...what's the alternative, though? There will always be people (lots of them) who do stupid stuff and look to someone influential to provide something that can vaguely justify it. It's not prudent to hold people responsible for the actions of others unless the actions are extremely serious, and it's practically certain that the person of influence is knowingly acting maliciously.

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#56462
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Take for example, Alex Jones. His whole persona is stirring up absolute bat shit insane conspiracy theories, but then he's surprised when the "schizophrenics go to these people's[parents of Sandy Hook victims] homes and threaten them" (his words)

If you are lucky enough to build a fan base with a large platform, it is your responsibility to use it for good and not evil. Spreading dangerous propaganda should be met with resistance and the influencer should absolutely be held accountable

 

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#56463
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Agreed (about responsibility, anyway), but you do you do that practically? unless someone nakedly condones violence, you immediately fall into the trap of government essentially having to decide what opinions are acceptable and which aren't, which causes massive problems much worse than anything alex jones does

and tbh dealing in misinformation and highly biased viewpoints is just as prevalent in a lot of "mainstream", "respectable" media as it is someone like AJ. I almost think he's better because at least the average person is probably pretty aware he's full of shit

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#56464
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Jones does make those "non-average" people a lot worse than they would be without his existence. My dad has always been conservative, but it's only been since he started listening to Jones and alt right people online that it's felt dangerous. I don't feel that, had he only ever had access to mainstream media, his political opinions would have ever been this far right.

So I guess you have to weigh whether "won't be taken seriously by most people" is enough of a benefit to outweigh "will radicalize some people and make them out and out neo nazis". My cost/benefit feels like, no, that's not a good tradeoff, but

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#56465
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Jones does make those "non-average" people a lot worse than they would be without his existence. My dad has always been conservative, but it's only been since he started listening to Jones and alt right people online that it's felt dangerous. I don't feel that, had he only ever had access to mainstream media, his political opinions would have ever been this far right.

So I guess you have to weigh whether "won't be taken seriously by most people" is enough of a benefit to outweigh "will radicalize some people and make them out and out neo nazis". My cost/benefit feels like, no, that's not a good tradeoff, but


How many people are actually neo-nazis because of alex jones (and other online personalities), though? I think it's probably a miniscule amount. Furthermore, how many neo-nazis actually engage in violent or illegal activity?

Again - if you accept that the government has the right to decide what opinions are acceptable and which aren't, that immediately affects *everybody* - and suppression of free speech rarely tends to work out in its proponents favour.

My view is basically that isolated violence perpetrated by a few select idiots is much preferable to mass violence perpetrated by the state, which is what you get when you take away free speech rights.

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#56466
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>the problem with anecdotal evidence such as this is that there's no way it can capture a society wide phenomenon. I've heard (and experienced) pretty much the opposite, at least in technical fields.

that's fair and it does make sense. but I think there are other factors that actually do make it worse. like student loan debt is at an all time high.

even if you're more likely to get a job (any job) as an entry level worker in 2019, I think you're still a lot further away from achieving the lifestyle your parents had. by that I mean when my dad was growing up, his mother didn't work, his father worked a middle class job, but they had a house and supported him and his two brothers, sent all 3 of them to college. even my parents working lower middle class type jobs were able to afford a house, 2 cars, 5 kids etc at a young age, only a few years older than I am now.

so maybe the unemployment rate is low but it feels like there are fewer jobs than ever that actually provide you with that type of lifestyle. especially as the country becomes more and more urbanized, with so many of those jobs concentrated in urban/suburban areas where prices are so inflated

TANSTAAFL


#56467
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That problem is wage growth vs inflation. Our parents (and their parents, to a degree) had higher wages relative to cost of living than we do for the most part.

Also houses were a lot smaller and more basic. Although my mom lived in a house where my grandparents paid like $60/month mortgage, the house is smaller than the one I live in now (it was under 1,000 square feet; my home is about 900 sq/feet) and didn't have central heating/cooling, etc. They don't build houses like that anymore ("starter houses" is what they were called?), plus with real estate being seen as an investment, prices are higher. This is a different problem than wage growth.

 

<socialist>

The bourgeoisie are stealing pocketing the increases in our increased productivity because they're getting greedier and greedier. This is unsustainable! To the gulags!

</socialist>


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#56468
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@both of you: I agree, but the single biggest reason for this is likely increased female participation in the labor force. Increased supply of workers = more competition for jobs, salary declining. Unless we want to return to 1950s, where most women didn't work, this is the reality we have now.

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#56469
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Weird thing to blame it on but ok



#56470
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Weird thing to blame it on but ok


Why is it weird? It's completely consistent with economic theory that when you increase the supply of something relative to demand it has a depressive effect on prices (salaries when it comes to employement).

Here's some info on female labor force participation rate if you doubt that it's increased significantly since the 50s.

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#56471
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don't we see the same stagnation of real wages in fields that were all male and remain nearly all male?

TANSTAAFL


#56472
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don't we see the same stagnation of real wages in fields that were all male and remain nearly all male?


Yes, but competition for those jobs still increases with the size of the labour pool because competition in other fields (where women work more) increases too - there are more men trying to get jobs in male dominated fields because it's harder for them to get jobs in fields that were previously male dominated and aren't anymore.

This is one of the "negative" effects of increase female labour force participation, but there have been a ton of positives too - consumer goods are generally much less expensive today than they were fifty years ago. The increased pace of technology and innovation is also due to more women working to a significant extent. My point is just that when it comes to economics, most phenomenon are not *all good* or *all bad* - in most cases, there are pros and cons..these things are all about tradeoffs. What you consider an appropriate tradeoff depends on your personal biases, like most things.

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#56473
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Weird thing to blame it on but ok


Why is it weird? It's completely consistent with economic theory that when you increase the supply of something relative to demand it has a depressive effect on prices (salaries when it comes to employement).

Here's some info on female labor force participation rate if you doubt that it's increased significantly since the 50s.

lfpsex25.gif

 

So of all of the literally millions of things that correlate with income inequality, you decided to pick labor force participation rate by gender? You don't think that's weird?



#56474
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So of all of the literally millions of things that correlate with income inequality, you decided to pick labor force participation rate by gender? You don't think that's weird?


The posts I responded to didn't say anything about income inquality, they were saying salaries were higher when households had a single income. In response, I show that salaries declined in large part because most modern households have dual income, which is highly correlated with increased female participation in the labour force. No, I don't think it's weird, I think it's answering the question that was asked.

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#56475
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In here we are currently at a phase where older people are feeling left out and people over 50-55 have the largest struggles with unemployment. Everybody wants to hire young people here these days, cause they are more eager and willing to do more work for less money.

In other words, "finished" my training at work and in shifts now. Pretty cool. Didn't take half as long as I thoight it would.
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#56476
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So of all of the literally millions of things that correlate with income inequality, you decided to pick labor force participation rate by gender? You don't think that's weird?

The posts I responded to didn't say anything about income inquality, they were saying salaries were higher when households had a single income. In response, I show that salaries declined in large part because most modern households have dual income, which is highly correlated with increased female participation in the labour force. No, I don't think it's weird, I think it's answering the question that was asked.
I wouldn't call this "blaming the female worker" so much as objective truth that if typical households double their income (by literally having a 2nd adult becoming a full time worker), it will significantly affect things like real estate and job pools.


I feel like we breezed pass responsibility of misinformation a little quickly.

One [wagon] can cause a LOT of damage. Let's check out the reason the anti-vaccine movement started for instance. http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com
Real website. Outstanding presentation why stupidity should be routed quickly. I agree that limiting free speech is dangerous, but shit like this should have a warning label. If McDonald's needs to iterate "CAUTION HOT COFFEE" on every God damn coffee cup they serve people like Alex Jones and Jenny McCarthy should be forced to label their content with something like "CAUTION I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'M SAYING"

I've always enjoyed this thought exercise: imagine how dumb the average person is. Now understand that half the world's population is dumber than that.

 

Anyone who likes tacos is incapable of logic.

Anyone who likes logic is incapable of tacos.




 

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#56477
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I've always enjoyed this thought exercise: imagine how dumb the average person is. Now understand that half the world's population is dumber than that.

 

 

IIRC that's less of a thought exercise and more of a George Carlin standup bit :P

 

the average person's IQ is gradually rising every year... I really don't think the average person is dumb. they're pretty well-rounded and intelligent compared to in the past. better to think that half the world's population is even smarter than that IMO. sure one idiot can cause a lot of damage, but the opposite could be said for one extraordinary intelligent person


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#56478
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Social media has turned me cynical I'm afraid

 

Anyone who likes tacos is incapable of logic.

Anyone who likes logic is incapable of tacos.




 

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#56479
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the thing that scares me more is that most people think they're in the top half

edit: to both of your points...now, we have thousands of idiots who don't vaccinate, causing a dozen deaths a year. 150 years ago, we just had thousands of deaths a year instead.

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#56480
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And while I acknowledge that the numbers have improved, forgive my reluctance to accept that we can't do better

 

Anyone who likes tacos is incapable of logic.

Anyone who likes logic is incapable of tacos.




 

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