Is the US at war with Russia?

[RichieMcD]

No I would want us to do it to them.

 

 

 

See you wouldn't like it, so quite obviously Russia wouldn't like it. Basically what America is doing is stopping Russia's chances of attacking, while America can still attack easily. Obviously Russia isn't going to like that.

[jackattack]

Thats the point.

[das1330]

 

Defence is the best attack. A properly working missile shield would make Russia helpless when compared to Americans and thus either cause the need for them to waste billions in something (same kind of shield, better weapons, etc) in order to keep up with the balance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The properly working missile shield is only able to intercept, at most, 30 or so missiles at once. Even then, its only effective against relatively primitive ICBM's. The Russians not only have tens of thousands of working missiles, but their missiles have advanced countermeasures onboard (Decoys, chaff and flare launchers, systems that randomly change the MIRV's trajectory to throw off interceptors etc.) that can easily avoid the interceptor system. Russia is just unhappy because their former satellite states are being absorbed into NATO and gaining close ties with the west, diminishing their power on a global scale.

[Latinoking]

If Putin doesn't sign the Ceasefire made by Rice, then....I dunno.

[magekillr]

If Putin doesn't sign the Ceasefire made by Rice, then....I dunno.

 

 

 

Then Rice will say the same thing again, and the US will do nothing. If Russia was some rinky dink weakling country, you can bet your sure fire [wagon] we'd be pulling Iraq 2.0....Russia, S. Ossetia, Georgia..oil galore.

 

 

 

This is the thing. At this point the Neocons aren't achieving anything other than broadcasting to the world how utterly ineffectual America is at diplomacy, and how totally broken our ability to influence foreign affairs without direct involvement. You'd think it would be more in our interests to just shut up, so people don't notice that nobody's listening to us.

 

 

 

To me, this is the reason why any nationalist Republican with any sense would prefer Obama to McCain - McCain can't do anything to restore American prestige on the world diplomatic stage. He might be able to convince the insipid American public that he doesn't represent a continuation of Bush's doctrines, but the rest of the world isn't going to buy that [cabbage].

 

 

 

Neither can Obama, really, but he may be able to go some way towards re-inventing us as a mediator or an organizer of international efforts, as Britain re-invented itself in the latter 20th Century. Make no mistake - we're still a powerhouse, but the days of American primacy in world affairs are over forever. If we don't manage to re-invent ourselves into a new and important role on the world stage in our national dotage, we're going to end up finding the world is a pretty horrible place in which to be American.

 

 

 

I think at this point, even if Rice had the cure for cancer, no one would be interested.

[meatlordking]

No I would want us to do it to them.

 

 

 

See you wouldn't like it, so quite obviously Russia wouldn't like it. Basically what America is doing is stopping Russia's chances of attacking, while America can still attack easily. Obviously Russia isn't going to like that.

 

 

 

 

 

So you're saying we should sit down and watch while Russia nukes us? =D> bravo genious

[Lenticular_J]

If Putin doesn't sign the Ceasefire made by Rice, then....I dunno.

 

 

 

Then Rice will say the same thing again, and the US will do nothing. If Russia was some rinky dink weakling country, you can bet your sure fire [wagon] we'd be pulling Iraq 2.0....Russia, S. Ossetia, Georgia..oil galore.

 

If we wanted oil, we'd free Canada from their suppressors.

[konzserwas]

stopping Russia's chances of attacking

 

 

 

huh? If Russia wanted to lauch a missile at United States it would go east, not west. Aka away from the misslie shield :D

[l0l0lpur32]

No I would want us to do it to them.

 

 

 

See you wouldn't like it, so quite obviously Russia wouldn't like it. Basically what America is doing is stopping Russia's chances of attacking, while America can still attack easily. Obviously Russia isn't going to like that.

 

 

 

 

 

So you're saying we should sit down and watch while Russia nukes us? =D> bravo genious

 

Russia isn't going to "nuke" anyone. Are you saying Russia shouldn't be worried about an organisation put together to fight them spreading east with missiles and radars?

[jackattack]

If Putin doesn't sign the Ceasefire made by Rice, then....I dunno.

 

 

 

Then Rice will say the same thing again, and the US will do nothing. If Russia was some rinky dink weakling country, you can bet your sure fire [wagon] we'd be pulling Iraq 2.0....Russia, S. Ossetia, Georgia..oil galore.

 

 

 

This is the thing. At this point the Neocons aren't achieving anything other than broadcasting to the world how utterly ineffectual America is at diplomacy, and how totally broken our ability to influence foreign affairs without direct involvement. You'd think it would be more in our interests to just shut up, so people don't notice that nobody's listening to us.

 

 

 

I think at this point, even if Rice had the cure for cancer, no one would be interested.

 

 

 

So if russia had not invaded Georgia we would have invaded an ally of ours? Sounds pretty likely. And we are not really ineffective at diplomacy. We were pretty successful with the North Koreans. Sarkozy just beat us to the punch. He's a beast though.

[RichieMcD]

No I would want us to do it to them.

 

 

 

See you wouldn't like it, so quite obviously Russia wouldn't like it. Basically what America is doing is stopping Russia's chances of attacking, while America can still attack easily. Obviously Russia isn't going to like that.

 

 

 

 

 

So you're saying we should sit down and watch while Russia nukes us? =D> bravo genious

 

 

 

Nope I'm not "genius", nice spelling of it by the way. What I was saying was in response to Jack's comment that Russia will quite obviously be angry if Poland does allow America place part of it's missile shield in it. Next time read posts beforehand instead of making [cabbage] assumptions :thumbsup:

 

 

 

Also your statement contradicts your opinion, should Russia sit back and watch while America destroys it's option of Nuclear retaliation if America was ever to attack Russia via Nuclear weapons? Why should you be entitled to peace of mind while Russia sits in fear knowing it has no chance of Nuclear retaliation? :

 

 

 

stopping Russia's chances of attacking

 

 

 

huh? If Russia wanted to lauch a missile at United States it would go east, not west. Aka away from the misslie shield :D

 

 

 

If I'm not mistaken America already has a Nuclear missile sheild built covering most of the North American continent? As soon as the Nuke popped up on America's radar heading from Russia towards America it would just deploy one of it's many anti-Nuclear missiles destroying the Nuke over the Pacific / close to the America coast, but more than likely over the Pacific to reduce the risk of Nuclear fallout (pollution / radiation)

[jackattack]

Look the missile defense shield has nothing to do with russia's security. It would stop iranian missiles. The shield will probably be finished in 4 years or so. By then iran could have missile that could reach Europe and maybe even nuclear weapons. It is no threat to russia. Poland did exactly the right thing. By showing that they are not willing to bow down to russia even after what happened to Georgia sends the right signal. We can't play soft pedal to the russians. Thats how ww2 started. Russia needs not only to GTFO of Georgia but also South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

[1_man_army]

How does it not affect Russia's security? If USA can attack Russia and Russia can't hit back then it bloody well does affect them. If it was only being made to prevent an Iranian attack it wouldn't be conveniently placed in Poland.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Look the missile defense shield has nothing to do with russia's security. It would stop iranian missiles. The shield will probably be finished in 4 years or so. By then iran could have missile that could reach Europe and maybe even nuclear weapons. It is no threat to russia. Poland did exactly the right thing. By showing that they are not willing to bow down to russia even after what happened to Georgia sends the right signal. We can't play soft pedal to the russians. Thats how ww2 started. Russia needs not only to GTFO of Georgia but also South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

 

Yes, I absolutely love this logic.

 

 

 

We need to build load of missile bases (silos... whatever) right on Russia's border because Iran could maybe launch a nuke somewhere abouts in Europe in the possible future if they develop nuclear technology.

 

 

 

And you say Putin's actions were disproportionate...

[jackattack]

Look the missile defense shield has nothing to do with russia's security. It would stop iranian missiles. The shield will probably be finished in 4 years or so. By then iran could have missile that could reach Europe and maybe even nuclear weapons. It is no threat to russia. Poland did exactly the right thing. By showing that they are not willing to bow down to russia even after what happened to Georgia sends the right signal. We can't play soft pedal to the russians. Thats how ww2 started. Russia needs not only to GTFO of Georgia but also South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

 

Yes, I absolutely love this logic.

 

 

 

We need to build load of missile bases (silos... whatever) right on Russia's border because Iran could maybe launch a nuke somewhere abouts in Europe in the possible future if they develop nuclear technology.

 

 

 

And you say Putin's actions were disproportionate...

 

 

 

It's only capable of stopping like ten missiles. It has nothing to do with russia. They are just trying to flex their muscles. They already wrecked Georgia so now they think they can push Poland, Ukraine, etc. NATO has already endorsed the missile shield. It's not some thing just to piss russia off. We were doing it way before the war broke out. I love this logic. Just because russia is trying to push around Poland and make a big deal about something that doesn't really affect them we should do exactly what they want.

[Ginger_Warrior]

A) As explained by 1_man_army, it has everything to do with Russia. Likewise, I fail to see how building a missile shield in Poland is any business of the USA's, by your logic.

 

 

 

B) They've hardly "wrecked" Georgia. Let's be honest now. You're hardly fit to talk about wrecking countries either... remember Iraq?

 

 

 

C) I'm calling for them to withdraw as well. I'm hardly doing anything Russia asks me to. The UK has been calling for Russia to withdraw since the conflict began.

[jackattack]

It doesn't affect russia. Read the whole thread. The shield can't stop that many missiles. Russia could easily overwhelm it. They are just trying to push Poland around. They are just angry that their old empire is now going closer and closer to the west and they are trying to stop it. I didn't mean wrecked the country I meant wrecked as in beat. And Iraq is in pretty good shape.

[1_man_army]

Hypothetically speaking, what do you think USA would be doing while Russia is spending vital time 'overwhelming' the shield? I'd think bombs would be knocking out Russia's missile sites. Even if it only takes an hour or two or so to overwhelm the shield as you put it, it's still more than enough time to get an advantage.

[RichieMcD]

Hypothetically speaking, what do you think USA would be doing while Russia is spending vital time 'overwhelming' the shield? I'd think bombs would be knocking out Russia's missile sites. Even if it only takes an hour or two or so to overwhelm the shield as you put it, it's still more than enough time to get an advantage.

 

 

 

Exactly, it's still more than enough time for American Nukes to hit Moscow, St. Petersburg, Russian missile sites etc. Jack if it's supposed to be stopping Iran then why is it being built in a country where a Iranian missile wouldn't even be passing over if it was sent against a significant Western European target?

[Lenticular_J]

I don't understand that either. I mean, we don't even need it. It wouldn't do particularly much, and the only leader in the world today stupid enough to use a modern ICBM is Kim-Jong-Lil.

[jackattack]

Hypothetically speaking, what do you think USA would be doing while Russia is spending vital time 'overwhelming' the shield? I'd think bombs would be knocking out Russia's missile sites. Even if it only takes an hour or two or so to overwhelm the shield as you put it, it's still more than enough time to get an advantage.

 

 

 

Exactly, it's still more than enough time for American Nukes to hit Moscow, St. Petersburg, Russian missile sites etc. Jack if it's supposed to be stopping Iran then why is it being built in a country where a Iranian missile wouldn't even be passing over if it was sent against a significant Western European target?

 

 

 

 

 

It's not about the time. They would launch all of their missile and this thing would shoot down less than 50 probably.

[Bufoman]

Well since every one is seems to be intent on debating the subject I thought I would post the link to an article on Wikipedia about the subject of National missile defense: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile_shield

 

 

 

Their is a constant struggle between the sword and the shield. The sword always wins in the end, or so I am told. In other words the Russians, Chinese, North Koreans, and any other hostile nation with nuclear capabilities will if they want to badly enough (and have the required resources) find way's to overcome our defenses. Our best defense is and always has been MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction).

[Ginger_Warrior]

What people seem to forget is that Iran's military capability is poor. The vast majority of its army (and I'm talking about 95% here) is made up of non-governmental militia, much like the Lebonese army is mostly comprised of by Hezbollah.

 

 

 

Iran knows full well it wouldn't last two days in a proper war, given that Russia (just like any of the world's developed powers) wouldn't particularly want Iran using nukes freely either.

 

 

 

The chances of Iran actually using a nuke are tiny. You stand more chance of being run over by a car, than you'll ever face of being hit by a nuke, but you don't ban cars do you? Iran has the US panicking, and you're not even testing its metal yet.

[The Dark Lord]

By the way did anyone hear about Russia announcing it would move out of Georgia, but some troops are moving towards the Georgian capital? The US government said that Russia was "playing dangerous games and should reconsider," but the US can't really do anything about it since they're sitting ducks if Russia and United States declare war.

 

 

 

Anyway if anyone wants the article, I can give it. I'm just wondering if anyone else has seen it. I saw it on my AT&T homepage with news from Yahoo.

[Agunimon979]

The US government said that Russia was "playing dangerous games and should reconsider,"

 

 

 

If he passes this, damn [bleep] stupid president is going to be the end of us all.