Is the US at war with Russia?

[anonymous1234]

Oh no, now I am genuinely scared.

 

 

 

US forces to deliver Georgia aid: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7559252.stm

 

 

 

Damn it all. We settle things with North Korea and now we're close to making more dangerous enemies with Russia. Why can't we just help the French's diplomatic efforts instead of putting our [wagon] on the line to help the weaker side? Don't flame me by the way, I'm still learning about this whole conflict. Thank goodness for Wikipedia.

 

Indeed. This is a very bad decision by the U.S. We already are fighting 2 wars which aren't getting enough troops and supplies, so we enter a 3rd war and use more taxpayer money :x

[Legosimx]

This is interesting...I only forsee a WWIII being a last resort...if its feesable at all. Only a complete and utter...

 

 

 

****We inturrupt this message to bring you a test of the Emergency Alert System****

 

 

 

...dimwit. But, all things considered, the current establishment doesn't have my faith that they will realise America's (and possibly it's allies, I don't know) military is extremely strained. They certainly havn't sown that they can recognise things right in front of their faces whn it comes to major decisions.

 

 

 

Better go stock up on Bottled Water. I wil lget in touch with my Unlce though. He's a Master Srgt. stationed at Fort Drum in New Jearsy. See if he has any news...

[Bauke]

I doubt the US will be that stupid to interfere with the conflict at hand between Russia and Georgia. Humanitary aid, ok.. but a war? No. Even those war hungry morons that call themself the US government can't be that stupid.

[Ginger_Warrior]

I should hasten to add this is only a humanitarian operation, but it does involve military ships.

 

 

 

I doubt the US is seriously trying to give a fight to the Russians. No country in the history of mankind has ever survived fighting a war on three separate fronts. Look at how Germany was defeated in WWII. That is the prospect the US would be facing, only the fight would be thousands of miles away from home, and right on the doorstep of a country who could wipe out any force the US sent to the Caucasus in weeks.

 

 

 

Not even Bush, hell, not even McCain would be that stupid, surely to god.

 

 

 

What is worrying though is that Bush risked jeopardising any relations left with Russia and Putin in order to carry out this operation.

 

 

 

People talk about the 21st Century being about China's economy versus the US's economy, in a fight to be the world superpower. It's looking as if Russia might have something to say about that, and that's worrying. :|

[Legosimx]

I should hasten to add this is only a humanitarian operation, but it does involve military ships.

 

 

 

I doubt the US is seriously trying to give a fight to the Russians. No country in the history of mankind has ever survived fighting a war on three separate fronts. Look at how Germany was defeated in WWII. That is the prospect the US would be facing, only the fight would be thousands of miles away from home, and right on the doorstep of a country who could wipe out any force the US sent to the Caucasus in weeks.

 

 

 

Not even Bush, hell, not even McCain would be that stupid, surely to god.

 

 

 

What is worrying though is that Bush risked jeopardising any relations left with Russia and Putin in order to carry out this operation.

 

 

 

People talk about the 21st Century being about China's economy versus the US's economy, in a fight to be the world superpower. It's looking as if Russia might have something to say about that, and that's worrying. :|

 

+1

 

 

 

It's...worrying. I...I...just feel unsure about the future. I highly doubt this will escalate to all out open global war, but lets just say it does for botd. Somehow Russia and the US start stepping on eachothers toes. What would happen to the Coalition troops in the Middle East? Would they be recalled to serve against Russia? As much as i can tell from reading, our Military is vastly suprior to Russia's, especially in the Air/Sea area. Our Navy (probably our Carriers alone) could decimate Russia's, and probably do a good bit of damage to their planes imo. I am guessing if we went to war with Russia, the F-22 would see combat (F-15 is still cooler though). I am sure the Raptor would at least dent a few MiG's. I'm not sure about a ground war though. America has small land forces atm and Russia operates around 23000 tanks, however about half is the outaded T-72's which really can't touch an Abrams (or a Leopard II, Challenger, or Le Quirre (sp?)) tank(s). We have the ability to produce Abrams in almost limitless quantities, I think anyway, thats what they tell me on the interwebz. Well I really interested to see how this plays out...

 

 

 

Response to my gint oversealus post?

[Yomyth105]

us and russia wouldnt fight a war during these times... they r allies trying to work together to stop other countries like korea etc.

[Legosimx]

Allies. Hrmph.

[anonymous1234]

us and russia wouldnt fight a war during these times... they r allies trying to work together to stop other countries like korea etc.

 

Ok :lol:

[Lenticular_J]

Not even Bush, hell, not even McCain would be that stupid, surely to god.

 

Congress. The President would only be able to start a military operation if Congress allowed it (although I do believe very extreme situations can warrant him acting without Congress). And Congress is currently very Democratic. I just wanted to say that.

 

 

 

And Yomyth, you're so very insightful about the world. :twss:

[Legosimx]

In a perfect world...I only wish he was right. :cry:

[jackattack]

Not even Bush, hell, not even McCain would be that stupid, surely to god.

 

Congress. The President would only be able to start a military operation if Congress allowed it (although I do believe very extreme situations can warrant him acting without Congress). And Congress is currently very Democratic. I just wanted to say that.

 

 

 

And Yomyth, you're so very insightful about the world. :twss:

 

 

 

 

 

I think he can start a military operation but if it lasts longer than 60 days congress needs to approve it.

[Riku3220]

WWIII, i can see it coming.

 

 

 

Well, I'll hopefully see you all in Madagascar

[magekillr]

???

 

 

 

WASHINGTON President Bush sent American troops to Georgia on Wednesday to oversee a vigorous and ongoing humanitarian mission, in a direct challenge to Russias display of military dominance over the region. His action came after Russian soldiers moved into two strategic Georgian cities in what he and Georgian officials called a violation of the cease-fire Russia signed the day before...

 

 

 

...In Russia, Mr. Lavrov, the foreign minister, warned the Bush administration that it risked a breach with Russia by throwing its support so strongly behind Georgia and its president.

 

 

 

We understand that this current Georgian leadership is a special project of the United States, he said, but one day the United States will have to choose between defending its prestige over a virtual project or real partnership with Russia.

 

 

 

I don't understand Georgie, your first reaction to this crisis amazed me, and I was so happy...

 

 

 

Not at war yet.

 

 

 

edit: ah Ginger was before me lol.

[Lenticular_J]

They're just watching over the aid trucks I'm sure. Like the beginning in Somalia.

 

 

 

[cabbage], hope it doesn't end up Black Hawk Down style.

[folmer_veeman]

Oh no, now I am genuinely scared.

 

 

 

US forces to deliver Georgia aid: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7559252.stm

 

 

 

i'm sorry, but that's really stupid... can't they see russia can justify it's attacks, this is just asking for trouble...

[Ginger_Warrior]

Oh no, now I am genuinely scared.

 

 

 

US forces to deliver Georgia aid: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7559252.stm

 

 

 

i'm sorry, but that's really stupid... can't they see russia can justify it's attacks, this is just asking for trouble...

 

When the EU is talking with Moscow about peace (the French FM - the French currently hold the presidency of the EU), and quite a large chunk of NATO is made up of the EU, it does seem strange George would decide to 'go it alone' in what is a direct confrontation.

 

 

 

And some of you think Obama would make a bad commander-in-Chief? He can't do any worse than this guy... he has been a disaster since Day One.:?

[cryztalwing]

There have been reports of American Blackwater and DynCorp mercenaries supporting the Georgian forces, that Russia as killed in combat during the war.

[magekillr]

Oh no, now I am genuinely scared.

 

 

 

US forces to deliver Georgia aid: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7559252.stm

 

 

 

i'm sorry, but that's really stupid... can't they see russia can justify it's attacks, this is just asking for trouble...

 

When the EU is talking with Moscow about peace (the French FM - the French currently hold the presidency of the EU), and quite a large chunk of NATO is made up of the EU, it does seem strange George would decide to 'go it alone' in what is a direct confrontation.

 

 

 

And some of you think Obama would make a bad commander-in-Chief? He can't do any worse than this guy... he has been a disaster since Day One.:?

 

 

 

Russia BAD!!! HULK SMASH!!!

 

 

 

I was very please with Bush's first reactions; he simply stated that Russia was using a disproportionate amount of force to deal with the situation, which I agreed with. Then, that was it.

 

 

 

Now...wtf is his problem. Why couldn't we just LAY OFF! [bleep]! Doesn't make any sense to me, it just doesn't...I don't get it. How...just how can people support McCain with this crap going on?

 

 

 

McCain's reaction was by FAR worse...I may type up a whole thread about it...

[folmer_veeman]

Oh no, now I am genuinely scared.

 

 

 

US forces to deliver Georgia aid: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7559252.stm

 

 

 

i'm sorry, but that's really stupid... can't they see russia can justify it's attacks, this is just asking for trouble...

 

When the EU is talking with Moscow about peace (the French FM - the French currently hold the presidency of the EU), and quite a large chunk of NATO is made up of the EU, it does seem strange George would decide to 'go it alone' in what is a direct confrontation.

 

 

 

And some of you think Obama would make a bad commander-in-Chief? He can't do any worse than this guy... he has been a disaster since Day One.:?

 

 

 

i think obama would do it a lot better than bush, as he is more passively and more friendly..

 

 

 

mccain would be the biggest disaster since the start of history

[hohto]

yes the m16's are a lot more reliable than back then, i heard you can bury them in sand and still use them properly. But the AK series has improved too (think ak-107/108) though the bullet calibre isn't as big as before

 

 

 

We were comparing AK-47 and M16 there, I know some of the russian made assault rifles are 5,56 or 5,45 now :P However for example Finland still uses 7,62 on our RK-62 and RK-95 which are based on AK-47 technology. AK-101 uses 5,56, ak-103 is basically the same rifle with 7,62. AK-107 and 108 use different mechanisms to get a lesse recyle (sp?) than those rifles.

 

 

 

Btw I'm relatively sure Russia still uses AK-47's at least on some units. That's based on my memory though so I might be wrong on it.

[folmer_veeman]

yes the m16's are a lot more reliable than back then, i heard you can bury them in sand and still use them properly. But the AK series has improved too (think ak-107/108) though the bullet calibre isn't as big as before

 

 

 

We were comparing AK-47 and M16 there, I know some of the russian made assault rifles are 5,56 or 5,45 now :P However for example Finland still uses 7,62 on our RK-62 and RK-95 which are based on AK-47 technology. AK-101 uses 5,56, ak-103 is basically the same rifle with 7,62. AK-107 and 108 use different mechanisms to get a lesse recyle (sp?) than those rifles.

 

 

 

Btw I'm relatively sure Russia still uses AK-47's at least on some units. That's based on my memory though so I might be wrong on it.

 

 

 

i think ak-47 is still used, as it packs a lot more punch than ak-74 and most newer rifles (and there are still a lot in the world and they will not make millions of new rifles and put the old ones at the trash.. (btw it's recoil)

[9Fade1]

Trying to Pick a war with Russia then Bush, If you want to, just do it on your own,

[Bufoman]

Well guy's here is some more news: http://home.peoplepc.com/psp/newsstory. ... 2112830113

 

 

 

If this thing turns into a shooting war one can only hope the two powers involved here have a strong enough sense of self preservation to keep it confined in the conflict zone, similar to Korea.

 

 

 

While it is true that our forces are superior in most ways to the Russians one must consider the vulnerable supply lines involved here. Going it alone might not be the best idea, but I am confident we will not overextend ourselves, as any military assets we send there are simply too valuable. I believe an F-22 costs around 90 million dollars for example. Then again I do not have the greatest confidence that our government always acts in the nations best interest but rather in the interests of the elite. In which case the goal here is to justify a serious increase in military spending, and thus the revenue of the Arms Industry.

 

 

 

Edit: for that matter we should consider the Russian arms industry and what they have to gain... might not be much though if military spending is already very high over their.

[hohto]

While it is true that our forces are superior in most ways to the Russians one must consider the vulnerable supply lines involved here. .

 

 

 

Logistically Russia got a huge edge down there. By troops in total Russia has around one million soldiers more, that includes reserves. By raw numbers Russia got more nukes than you, however not like it really matters in the numbers you and they got them. You may have a lot bigger budget and more advanced technology, but if it went into a full scale war between US and Russia (theoretical scenario), it would be a war to end all wars and a war without any winners.

 

 

 

an F-22 costs around 90 million dollars for example.

 

 

 

Your budget this year was over 583 billion usd. Btw the unit cost for F-22 Raptor is 137,5 million usd according to Wikipedia. Good thing it's not my tax money that's used on that budget or those planes, would rather see my money floading into education and health care :P

 

 

 

(btw it's recoil)

 

 

 

Haha of course :P was just remembering the finnish word "rekyyli" :geek:

[1_man_army]

You may have a lot bigger budget and more advanced technology, but if it went into a full scale war between US and Russia (theoretical scenario), it would be a war to end all wars and a war without any winners.

 

 

 

That reminds me of the thing Einstein wrote in a letter to Harry Truman;

 

 

 

I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.