Taxation

[Bufoman]

'In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes." ~ Benjamin Franklin

 

 

 

Hello fellow TipIters.

 

 

 

I was surprised to find that no topic dealing with the subject of taxation exists here. So I decided to create one.

 

 

 

I would like to know your views on this subject, and if we are lucky we may have a rather lengthy discussion that just won't die out on the matter. So here is your chance to submit your views on this issue.

 

 

 

Happy posting.

[oegly41]

In my glorious land of welfare, I pay my taxes with a smile. I don't really know much about taxes for all of the world, but I have heard somewhere that we have quite high taxes here in the Nordic countries. The taxes we pay mostly go to health services and roads and such. A little go to sending military troops to Afghanistan, but it's mostly beneficial.

[dsavi]

May I ask, which Nordic country? I suspect you're in one of the Nordic NATO members.

 

 

 

And he said it already, as I'm also up in the North. Except I don't pay taxes with a smile.

[Ginger_Warrior]

So long as it goes into public services, especially the NHS, and making sure the poorest in our society are equipped with the very basics of life (food, water, clothes, shelter etc., as well as the opportunity to lift themselves out of abstract poverty), I don't mind paying taxes.

 

 

 

In a truly civilised society, charities should not be needed - the state should be able to provide everyone's needs.

 

 

 

I don't even mind tax payers' money being given to political parties so they all have equal funding without the whole messy business of who's giving money to who and why. MPs should also have a set wage from tax payers' money, and MPs expenses should just be included into that wage.

 

 

 

The war in Iraq and Afghanistan though? Talk about a waste. -.-

[warren211]

I'm too young to pay taxes for now, so feel free to skip my views if you think they're innacurate.

 

 

 

Nearby where I live in Chicago, sales taxes are highest in the nation, at 10.25%. By comparison, other cities nearby are at 7.25%. Even the biggest cities in the country are slightly lower. Shoppers everywhere in my area are shopping in suburbs or even in the neighboring state of Indiana where taxes can be quite a bit cheaper. I'm hoping this high amount of extra cash goes to good use, particularly gun violence in Chicago. My parents don't seem to be affected by rising costs and taxes in anything, our lifestyle has barely changed in the last few years despite higher prices and higher taxes. So I guess I might be biased, seeing as how I've never experienced struggling to pay taxes on a regular basis, but I think as long as taxes are kept at a bearable level, it's fine. I don't think we need any more taxes raised. We should work more on putting every cent to good use, seeing as Illinois is having trouble with budget planning, and having the highest deficit in the nation for the past few years. We really need to watch our spending and put it to proper use.

[sonerohi]

I'm too young to pay taxes for now, so feel free to skip my views if you think they're innacurate.

 

 

 

Nearby where I live in Chicago, sales taxes are highest in the nation, at 10.25%. By comparison, other cities nearby are at 7.25%. Even the biggest cities in the country are slightly lower. Shoppers everywhere in my area are shopping in suburbs or even in the neighboring state of Indiana where taxes can be quite a bit cheaper. I'm hoping this high amount of extra cash goes to good use, particularly gun violence in Chicago. My parents don't seem to be affected by rising costs and taxes in anything, our lifestyle has barely changed in the last few years despite higher prices and higher taxes. So I guess I might be biased, seeing as how I've never experienced struggling to pay taxes on a regular basis, but I think as long as taxes are kept at a bearable level, it's fine. I don't think we need any more taxes raised. We should work more on putting every cent to good use, seeing as Illinois is having trouble with budget planning, and having the highest deficit in the nation for the past few years. We really need to watch our spending and put it to proper use.

 

 

 

My state is actually doing well, it's just that idiot Blageiovich. I'm just :pray: that he gets assassinated.

[Lenticular_J]

I don't pay actual federal taxes, so I can't really say much about them, even though via my parents I'm affected.

[wild_goat_14]

Nearby where I live in Chicago, sales taxes are highest in the nation, at 10.25%.

 

 

 

That's the highest in the nation? Well crap, Tennessee's statewide 9.975% is worse than i thought.

 

 

 

I'm 15, I don't pay taxes.

[OldJoe]

I suppose you can get pissed about taxes, especially in Sweden.

 

 

 

Income tax is about 30% of the salary.

 

Let me try to remember... Things like food&hotel are 12%, books/travels/newspapers etc are 6% and things like computers/tvs/(i think cars too) are 25% tax.

 

 

 

But this pays for hospital/school/(dentists up to 20 years of age)... etc.

 

 

 

So i think it's pretty good.

[Bufoman]

We are getting allot of post rather quickly :D

 

 

 

OK so I live in the United States. Everyone seems to think we have low taxes- we don't. Americans on average spend a quarter of their yearly income on taxes in one form or another.

 

 

 

We have just to name a few:

 

 

 

Income Tax

 

Sales Tax

 

Property Tax

 

 

 

Income and sales tax are the one's I can live with, but why should some one be taxed for property? I mean you are not making money off of it unless youre a farmer, or own a business. Back during the early day's of our nation many prominent Americans where apposed to this one, yet it is still here.

 

 

 

Frankly I don't know why we still have federal income tax. Can't the government just responsibly print the money, or nationalize certain gold and silver mines to back up the currency? Of course we all know they can't, their too irresponsible as it is.

 

 

 

I would like to see a flat income tax replace all federal taxes as a start to tax reform. Of course so would lots of others. Such a tax should start at the national average say's I, and be reduced proportionately the further down from that level of income an individual makes. I also think the government needs to be held more accountable for it's wasteful spending practices.

 

Instead of this we keep paying our taxes and grumble a little if they add new ones.

 

 

 

Oh we also have some very unjust taxes such as Inheritance Tax AKA Death Tax.

 

 

 

Another idea to reduce the need for taxation is to raise tariffs on goods brought into our nation. Instead we have NAFTA- the North American Free Trade Act. Our people are becoming unemployed more and more as manufacturing jobs are shipped overseas partly as a result of this act.

[magekillr]

It's always interesting to me to see how Americans refer to European socialist policies as being somehow evil. Certainly in Europe, there are rich and poor but the MAJORITY of people have a higher quality of life. Why? Because taxes have paid for efficient transport to and from work, because taxes have paid for health care systems were all citizens can access care, because taxes have paid for schools where people are not graduating en masse being illiterate.

 

 

 

In case most Americans have not noticed, the US is moving towards a society like Mexico. If you are rich, you live in enclaves behind walls and have access to great health care and schools. If you are middle class, you struggle like hell just to stay afloat. And if you are poor, you are excluded from basic services. So when Americans are so against paying taxes, maybe they should think of living in a society like Mexico in the future.

 

 

 

And how much of US taxes really go towards this "redistribution" that everyone fears? And how much goes to the war in Iraq, Social Security, and the interest on the public debt that Mr. Bush has helped to push to record levels?

 

 

 

The funny thing about all of this debate is that the quintessential Republican policies of small government and low taxes have been promoted by Mr. Bush. What happened? The dollar fell, spending still continued at a brisk pace, the financial system is in turmoil, and most Americans are worse off than when Clinton was president.

 

 

 

Why do Americans think taxes is a dirty word?

 

 

 

I heard that the US is spending is about $10 billion a month on the war in Iraq. No problem, say the people. No problem, says the Congress. But when a $3 billion bill to ensure working class child reached the President's desk, he vetoed it because it was a waste of money. Hmmm.

 

 

 

The US government nearly outspends the rest of the entire world on defense and no one says a word. But when a relatively small spending bill comes up that will provide vital services and improve the quality of life, the people are crying bloody murder.

 

 

 

Would you rather spend a little money on American human beings that a lot of money of bombs? It's hard to see that Americans are not a war mongering people when you look at the American polity makes its spending priorities.

[RichieMcD]

I don't mind paying Taxs as I know it's helping improve and run my country.

 

 

 

What extremely pisses me off though is the government not having any requirements for social welfare other than you must be unemployed, here in Ireland a lot of people just don't get jobs and decide to live off social welfare while all they do is go out and take drugs / get drunk. They just leech off society and give nothing in return. They're living off the earnings of hardworking people, and that really pisses me off.

[Bufoman]

Magekiller do you just copy and paste that everywhere you go? I have heard (at least part of) that exact same statement word for word at least once and I could swear it was from you.

 

 

 

You should really work on the spelling for that thing. I realize English might not be your first language, but after all this time you should get someone to go over it and work out the spelling mistakes.

 

 

 

Or perhaps you have a large text file with different paragraphs that you like to use to make an argument with... yes that must be it. Would explain why a search did not turn up that same speech. In which case I have not heard it word for word in the same order, you just switch the universal argument paragraphs around a little.

 

 

 

Yes we are moving towards becoming a nation like Mexico. And it is not simply because of the Tax System we have. Other things contribute to it such as NAFTA, and Illegal Immigration. What are your opinions on those?

[Cyco_Reborn]

I dont pay taxes yet, but you should pay them 1 day late, just to annoy then.

[jackattack]

It's always interesting to me to see how Americans refer to European socialist policies as being somehow evil. Certainly in Europe, there are rich and poor but the MAJORITY of people have a higher quality of life. Why? Because taxes have paid for efficient transport to and from work, because taxes have paid for health care systems were all citizens can access care, because taxes have paid for schools where people are not graduating en masse being illiterate.

 

 

 

In case most Americans have not noticed, the US is moving towards a society like Mexico. If you are rich, you live in enclaves behind walls and have access to great health care and schools. If you are middle class, you struggle like hell just to stay afloat. And if you are poor, you are excluded from basic services. So when Americans are so against paying taxes, maybe they should think of living in a society like Mexico in the future.

 

 

 

And how much of US taxes really go towards this "redistribution" that everyone fears? And how much goes to the war in Iraq, Social Security, and the interest on the public debt that Mr. Bush has helped to push to record levels?

 

 

 

The funny thing about all of this debate is that the quintessential Republican policies of small government and low taxes have been promoted by Mr. Bush. What happened? The dollar fell, spending still continued at a brisk pace, the financial system is in turmoil, and most Americans are worse off than when Clinton was president.

 

 

 

 

Actually Americans have a higher quality of life than most european countries. The last time the U.N. ranked us we were 8th. The uk was 18, Germany was 20th or 21st. Only Norway, Iceland, Ireland and Sweden were ahead of us. And around two thirds of the budget go to medicare and social security.

 

 

 

Magekiller do you just copy and paste that everywhere you go? I have heard (at least part of) that exact same statement word for word at least once and I could swear it was from you.

 

 

 

I honestly thought the exact same thing. It might be from standing on boxes preaching on streetcorners.

[deloriagod]

I dont pay taxes yet, but you should pay them 1 day late, just to annoy then.

 

 

 

LATE FEES

 

 

 

:o

[magekillr]

Magekiller do you just copy and paste that everywhere you go? I have heard (at least part of) that exact same statement word for word at least once and I could swear it was from you.

 

 

 

When it comes to my opening statement about taxes, yes, it is something I have written previously.

 

 

 

You should really work on the spelling for that thing. I realize English might not be your first language, but after all this time you should get someone to go over it and work out the spelling mistakes.

 

 

 

Define: polity: a politically organized unit

 

 

 

Polity is a word, if that's what you were referring to.

 

 

 

Yes we are moving towards becoming a nation like Mexico. And it is not simply because of the Tax System we have. Other things contribute to it such as NAFTA, and Illegal Immigration. What are your opinions on those?

 

 

 

I welcome illegal immigration as a key part of American society, but would also like immigration reform to take place. It'd be nice if there was a North American Union taking place that a lot of "troofers" are spewing. NAFTA has its good points and its bad points, but overall I support "fair" trade and not "free" trade.

[trapical]

Not to sound elitist but it always amuses me when lower middle class families complain about taxes. Oh no, they taxed $1500 of your $40,000 income. Lawyers and physicians are taxed 30-40%, its not uncommon to pay $100,000 in taxes. Yes, I know they have more money in the end even after the taxation, but its still ridiculous to pay the cost of a house every single year.

 

 

 

And wow, its crazy for large businesses. Exxon Mobile pays like 40 billion dollars in tax every year. Again, I know you're all thinking "Yea, they deserve it, they make a ton of money!" But still, imagine running a large successful company and then being essentially punished for you success, having to give away sometimes 90% of your profit.

 

 

 

Anyway but taxes are here to stay. I don't mind paying them really, I just get find it annoying when tax breaks come around and people who pay <$1000 in taxes are in uproar that the guy that paid 5 million in taxes is getting a bigger "Tax cut". The poor want more tax rebates? Well, they need to start paying taxes first -.-

[Ginger_Warrior]

Not to sound elitist but it always amuses me when lower middle class families complain about taxes. Oh no, they taxed $1500 of your $40,000 income. Lawyers and physicians are taxed 30-40%, its not uncommon to pay $100,000 in taxes. Yes, I know they have more money in the end even after the taxation, but its still ridiculous to pay the cost of a house every single year.

 

How so? You want to be a doctor, figure it out for yourself.

 

 

 

Would people be more healthy if a doctor was earning £125,000 a year and got to keep a good £100,000 of that cash; or would it be better to tax what he's not actually gonna use anyway, and plough the money back into public health and national insurance to improve everyone's health, and make said doctor's job easier anyway because they won't need him as much as they did before?

 

 

 

It makes no sense to keep money locked away in the hands of those at the top end of the career heirachy, while others can barely afford a decent standard of living.

 

 

 

Anyway but taxes are here to stay. I don't mind paying them really, I just get find it annoying when tax breaks come around and people who pay <$1000 in taxes are in uproar that the guy that paid 5 million in taxes is getting a bigger "Tax cut". The poor want more tax rebates? Well, they need to start paying taxes first -.-

 

Progressive taxation is a good idea. A street cleaner cannot afford the same rate of tax as a lawyer. It's as simple as. They need tax credits to keep up with repayments, not just on their tax, but also their mortgage and house keeping.

 

 

 

What we have to be aware of is when people are using tax credits in order to contribute nothing to society. That's when we need to take the credits off them, and force them into contributing (mostly by getting a job) before giving them back.

 

 

 

Actually Americans have a higher quality of life than most european countries. The last time the U.N. ranked us we were 8th. The uk was 18, Germany was 20th or 21st. Only Norway, Iceland, Ireland and Sweden were ahead of us. And around two thirds of the budget go to medicare and social security.

 

If you are referring to the HDI, Wikipedia seems to tell a different story. I'm not sure what year they're using (presumably 07/08 from the footnotes), but the US was 12th. As far as Europe goes; Iceland, Norway, Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland, the Netherlands, France and Finland were ranked higher than the US. Six European countries were not included, too.

 

 

 

Given the size of the US economy compared to all the individual European countries, that to me seems pretty poor.

[jackattack]

I'm not sure if the un has done another one since 2006. I know the economists intelligence unit's one ranked us 13, the uk was 29, France and Germany were either 24 or 25th.

[InkofDeath]

When I'm at the age/job area to pay taxes, I really won't mind it as I like my free health care, the waste disposal program, the hydro company, the construction workers, the free schooling, and having a force to protect if needed.

 

 

 

A lot of people who complain about taxes ignore these benefits.

[Kenshinjapan]

I don't mind taxes when they go to (most) public services. The things I really hate money going towards are schools, homeless people, and most of all, WELFARE!!! :evil: . Things like school where half of the kids don't want to be there and destroy everything they see just because they can annoy me. Homeless people just annoy me because it's easy to become employed where I live. As for welfare, it's my least favorite thing in the world. Most of the people of welfare (in my community) are the parents of the kids that mess everything up in the schools because they don't care. Probably 25% of them are using the welfare as some sort of fraud to get free money. I'd say half of the people on welfare in my city aren't even legal citizens on the country and expect hard working people to fork over our money so they can live a mediocre life.

 

 

 

All I can say is that I'm going to be pissed if Obama wins and raises my taxes :x .

[l0l0lpur32]

I don't mind taxes as long as it's spent on things which are beneficial. I think that wasteful public spending should be cut back though, and also the personal allowance should be drastically increased to bring people on very low wages out of income tax altogether.

[DaN]

I think the 50% of fuel is a joke.

 

 

 

The price of Diesel is the controlling factor of ALL other prices and with a record surplus's of funding the Government should cut the fuel tax. Forget "improving welfare for low income families" that's an unfair system and costs money to run. Drop the price of Diesel and the price of goods and services drops.

 

 

 

It doesn't take a genius to see the relationship between fuel cost and the cost of goods and services. But the government prefers to waste more money on stupid benefit schemes than to cut tax where its most beneficial.

 

 

 

 

 

I object to politicians being able to set their own salaries.

[Bufoman]

And I thought us Yanks had it bad.

 

 

 

They actually jack up the price of diesel by 50%?!!!

 

 

 

Are they out of their minds?

 

 

 

One poster mentioned Welfare, and I would have to agree with him if that's the case in his area. A person is supposed to at least try to find work in order to qualify, unlike Social Security.