"You attack first! No you attack first!"

[Huta]

I hate repeating myself, but I'm going to have to go back to the same argument I've been saying forever that nobody seems to grasp.

 

 

 

PKing is NOT a duel. Therefore, when safety is such a short distance away, it is an ignorant, stupid, and self determental move to use prayer, because NOBODY will stick around to finish the fight. Call me outdated, but I'm not going to waste my food and pots on some kid that doesn't have the balls to fight without prayer because when he put that on, even with my magic hybriding that I have ALWAYS done, the odds of getting something are much much lower. I don't need the hassle.

 

 

 

That's my side. Thing is, almost every pker out there would react in the same way. So how intelligent is using prayer now, when you aren't going to get [cabbage] because nobody is going to bother with you? Pray all you want, I'll just slap on my protect melee and get out of there in search for someone that actually has a pair.

 

 

 

i seriously doubt the truth in this statement because for one, some pures do not even train pray and even if they do, many do not train till 43...please enlighten me on how someone with prayer level below 43 can pray protect melee :roll:

 

 

 

 

I challenge you to find me a viable, effective p2p pure that doesn't have at the very least 44 or 52 prayer. Go on, do it.

 

 

 

I hate this "but the pures don't have prayer" argument, it's [developmentally delayed] and false.

 

 

 

False argument I've dealt with again and again, please l2read. And honestly, most of the true pkers out there aren't even pure. I'm sure as hell not, and I find protect prayers [developmentally delayed]ed.

 

 

 

prayer was put in the game to be used, not for stupid pures to [bleep] about. :wall:

 

end of story.

 

Points to answer above.

 

 

 

look here...the COMBAT LEVEL was designed to incorporate your attack, str, def AND PRAYER level (talking about f2p and anyway summoning is not even in the picture here) thus jagex obviously feels that prayer is an aspect of the game which balances combat...if 2 people(guy A and B) are level 100 and A doesn't train prayer, he can't expect B not to use prayer. this is because if the B didn't use prayer it will be tantamount to B having 1 prayer which would in turn lower B's combat level and make A have the advantage. Thus B uses prayer for the simple reason that his prayer level is PART OF HIS COMBAT LEVEL and not using it is effectively reducing his combat level...giving A the upperhand.

 

 

 

Just look at my previous responses. You will find almost NOBODY out there without prayer. Pures aren't the only ones complaining.

 

 

 

Seriously, I've seen people brag about how intelligent the average tipiter is, but I have to disagee. Most can't even be bothered to read. There are more intelligent people on Zybez lately, and a while ago I would have said that would take a divine miracle.

 

 

 

Guess I believe in God now.

[totalpwnage]

Most people will not pray unless prayed against first. THe thing about prayer is when you're about 10 steps away from the bank, protect prayer gets really pointless except when looting or rushed... or running to get your cape back when someones trying to barrage you, etcetera. Whats the point of hybriding when they can just run out right there and then?

 

 

 

Now when you're in higher levels of the wilderness, its a lot less easy to escape just like that. Thats where prayer actually becomes useful. If someone prays against you you can't just leave like that, so you best come prepared with more than one attack style.

 

 

 

But a lot of people find prayer dumb, and it just makes the fight a lot more dumb than it should have been. It's usually an unsaid agreement -- if you don't pray, I won't either. People that don't care and just pray anyways annoy people cause they just want a normal fight, without resorting to their other antics. Sure, normal fights may have occured more in edgeville than anywhere else, but some happened at Drags or MB too of course.

 

 

 

There are a hell of a lot of sides to this and its becoming confusing to me to explain all of this. But if you resort to these methods, you'll have them done right back to you and you'll be looked down upon. You all have been acting like you're the only ones with protect prayers and they're not going to do it back if you pray against them. They will, and if they don't, they're the idiots. However, it is inevitable that these prayers will be used, moreso in higher wilderness for fights.

 

In edgeville, you pray and no ones goign to stick aroudn for the fight except to piss you off right back by farcasting and giong to any other antics they wish. You're not going to get any kills in return because no one is going to want to fight you except the kids that annoy you right back, and the chances of that is low.

 

 

 

Someone said the whole argument about armour. Okay, who is going to pk in Torags and a DFS and all the best melee defence gear? Only nonskullers, and not many will want to fight them. Besides, if someone pulls out mage on you, you're basically doomed. Pull out karils and lower your other defences and they switch right back.

 

 

 

I think I can summarize this all up into a short bit. If you use prayer in edgeville, unless you are getting your cape back or trying to get away from someone you don't want to fight or getting rushed or w/e, you're an idiot. In higher wilderness levels its a strategy, and theres actually a hell of a lot more of a point to hybrid -- if you're not hybriding, the inevitable is going to happen, you're gonna fail when they throw up prayers, cause its gonna happen eventually. You can't just run away and out there. And hybriding can prevent them from escaping, with barraging and when there was teleblock. But when you pray, remember that they're going to pray right back to you -- and if they don't consider yourself lucky to find an idiot.

 

 

 

And if you think the prayer issue refers to using boosting prayers like piety or 15% attack and strength, you're terribly wrong. Prayer, when used in terms of pking, generally refers to protect melee, range, or magic. Not anything else.

 

 

 

I used to be a pure and I accepted pretty much everything -- but I can't stand people praying against you in edgeville. Whats the point, seriously. You do that and people will do stuff right back to you. Praying at drags and MB just added a little challenge, requiring me to use all my combat skills instead of just my melee.

 

 

 

And sorry about how I used present tense a lot -- this post is all about past tense.

[Blitzman2b]

I loved the noobs that are so cocky coming into a fight then beg you not to kill them when they start losing :

[davidium]

huta if you can't be bothered to explain why bother posting? at least copy and paste your argument from the previous page or something...can't expect everyone to read the thread from page 1 to page 8 before posting right...what about those threads which have more than 100 pages -.- seriously...

[davidium]

If I can shave off 30-45% of my opponents damage, while boosting my own damage in 15% accuracy and power, by all means I'll take the more defensive fighting position.

 

 

 

Smite, can be effectively duplicated with a level ~30 familiar (vampire bat? cant remember) which has the ability to drain prayer quite effectively, and more reliably than smite (which uses prayer, and depends on the randomness of the combat engine).

 

 

 

as for the difference in damage between someone using smiety combo, I can live with that. A pure is a glass cannon, so they have no reason to boost their non-existant defences, they need damage to survive, which is why they are dangerous. Rounded players however, dont have that luxury- why should we be penalized for playing differently than a pure? pking is secondary on many accounts, as some of us enjoy the rest of the game too.

 

 

 

A pure is level 80, his opponent is a rounded character of level 80. now if both of them have ~equal prayer levels, the pure would win hands down if both agreed to only use offensive prayers. BUT the rounded player would have the advantage of armor/defence to try and balance this, which probably wouldnt equate to much, seeing as at those levels, a pure would absolutely demolish a normal character in offence.

 

 

 

solution? the non pure uses protect prayers to shave off the damage difference, equalizing the battle field, and in most cases taking the advantage. thats the only reason pures whine, because its not fair to THEM. you say its 'nooby to waste food' well suck it up princess, its a game, and appearantly not the cheery one where everyone bends over and lets you sodomize them with a scimitar. People will put up a fight, If i hit 5 less max damage than you, but trump you defensively, I'll take any means to boost my defence before worrying about my offence.

 

 

 

that 5 extra damage can easily be duplicated on my end, while my extra defensive buffs will be paramount in stopping you, as 30% off your hits from my protect prayer will lower your damage to/below my own level, while the added 15% to my defence will help stave off the rest of your attacks.

 

 

 

pures are the proverbial sprinters of pking, while everyone else takes their place at the marathon gates. we may not be as fast, but we will win, because we can afford the time to kill you.

 

 

 

and dont even talk about "prayer noobs" running once their prayer runs out, I have a pure account, and other pures are no better. they wont sit back and say oh, looks like im gonna die, they run their [wagon] off in hopes of not loosing. and then they have the balls to pm you about how much you suck! sorry, thats not all pures, but in general the attitude is rampant among you.

 

 

 

You will beat the pure, but you won't kill him. Prayer vs prayer does nothing but drag the fight out forever, ultimately wasting both of the fighter's supplies until one gets low enough they just run 6 steps to safety.

 

 

 

That's the real reason PKers hate prayer. It isn't an advantage for EITHER party, since the entire reason both of you are out there, to kill for loot, is just about raped by prayer. Instead of the best player getting a ko and some [cabbage], the best player slowly wears the other guy out then watches his target run to safety.

 

 

 

That's what I don't get about non-pkers that think they're being smart by using prayer when pking. They aren't being smart; they're shooting themselves in the foot and wasting their money while doing it. Sure, you may never die, but neither will the other guy.

 

 

 

And seriously, everybody uses stat bonus prayers. They aren't talking about piety or ultimate strength when they complain about prayer, so don't even go there.

 

 

 

dude you are assuming the 2 players have the SAME prayer level, praying the SAME prayers, have the SAME prayer bonus and drink the SAME number of prayer potions in the fight...i've already explained this in my previous posts above this one (if you scroll up you can see it)...

 

 

 

and by your logic then we should all remove our armour since it "drags" the fight on...and maybe all of us should stop training def and become pures too since it "drags" the fight on...woo hoo what wonderful words of advise...

[davidium]

 

Someone said the whole argument about armour. Okay, who is going to pk in Torags and a DFS and all the best melee defence gear? Only nonskullers, and not many will want to fight them. Besides, if someone pulls out mage on you, you're basically doomed. Pull out karils and lower your other defences and they switch right back.

 

 

wth man...i only talked about torag and dfs as a freaking EXAMPLE in the same way one shouldn't wear rune since it "drags the fight on right"? :roll: and although i agree DFS is expensive i think torag is dirt cheap...if someone can't even afford torag even...they shouldn't be pking seriously it's amazing how narrow-minded some people can be...really makes me want to believe in intelligent design (and that some people were designed less intelligently)

 

 

 

and that part about mage and karil is totall irrelevant to my point...my point is that if you guys say protect prayers drag fights on then armour which DEFINITELY drag fights on should not be used too right...waste of time...

 

 

 

if someone pulls out mage on me i'll have karil's and cbow ready...practically everyone is a hybrid and i got my 99 range for a reason -.-

[Huta]

dude you are assuming the 2 players have the SAME prayer level, praying the SAME prayers, have the SAME prayer bonus and drink the SAME number of prayer potions in the fight...i've already explained this in my previous posts above this one (if you scroll up you can see it)...

 

 

 

and by your logic then we should all remove our armour since it "drags" the fight on...and maybe all of us should stop training def and become pures too since it "drags" the fight on...woo hoo what wonderful words of advise...

 

 

 

I saw your post, it wasn't worth addressing. I rarely run out of prayer in pvp, and that's versus smiters. That's a nonfactor. In the worst case scenarios you sprint out when you use your last dose. Just because your prayer might last 20 seconds longer doesn't mean [cabbage] when the other guy decides to run and the best you can do is hope for a 27 over prayer. Like I said, you will NOT ko me if I use prayer. End of discussion. It's not a duel or a minigame, there's absolutely nothing keeping me there when I run low on prayer or food.

 

 

 

If anybody needs it read, it's you. I said before I'm not in any way a pure. I pk with full armor. The entire difference between armor and prayer is armor does NOT get in the way of a decent fight, and while it slows down damage, it does not completely negate any form of ko ability. I could head out in 40m+ worth of tanking gear, +400 slash def, and still get koed by a lucky spec. That's not going to happen with 43.

 

 

 

Seriously get your [wagon] out of your wagon and learn something about pking, ignorant arguments based off inexperience aren't going to win [cabbage]. Your opinion is meaningless until you've actually done some real pvp. And sorry, but CW and the Duel arena are NOT pvp.

[Dharockslayer]

If I can shave off 30-45% of my opponents damage, while boosting my own damage in 15% accuracy and power, by all means I'll take the more defensive fighting position.

 

 

 

Smite, can be effectively duplicated with a level ~30 familiar (vampire bat? cant remember) which has the ability to drain prayer quite effectively, and more reliably than smite (which uses prayer, and depends on the randomness of the combat engine).

 

 

 

as for the difference in damage between someone using smiety combo, I can live with that. A pure is a glass cannon, so they have no reason to boost their non-existant defences, they need damage to survive, which is why they are dangerous. Rounded players however, dont have that luxury- why should we be penalized for playing differently than a pure? pking is secondary on many accounts, as some of us enjoy the rest of the game too.

 

 

 

A pure is level 80, his opponent is a rounded character of level 80. now if both of them have ~equal prayer levels, the pure would win hands down if both agreed to only use offensive prayers. BUT the rounded player would have the advantage of armor/defence to try and balance this, which probably wouldnt equate to much, seeing as at those levels, a pure would absolutely demolish a normal character in offence.

 

 

 

solution? the non pure uses protect prayers to shave off the damage difference, equalizing the battle field, and in most cases taking the advantage. thats the only reason pures whine, because its not fair to THEM. you say its 'nooby to waste food' well suck it up princess, its a game, and appearantly not the cheery one where everyone bends over and lets you sodomize them with a scimitar. People will put up a fight, If i hit 5 less max damage than you, but trump you defensively, I'll take any means to boost my defence before worrying about my offence.

 

 

 

that 5 extra damage can easily be duplicated on my end, while my extra defensive buffs will be paramount in stopping you, as 30% off your hits from my protect prayer will lower your damage to/below my own level, while the added 15% to my defence will help stave off the rest of your attacks.

 

 

 

pures are the proverbial sprinters of pking, while everyone else takes their place at the marathon gates. we may not be as fast, but we will win, because we can afford the time to kill you.

 

 

 

and dont even talk about "prayer noobs" running once their prayer runs out, I have a pure account, and other pures are no better. they wont sit back and say oh, looks like im gonna die, they run their [wagon] off in hopes of not loosing. and then they have the balls to pm you about how much you suck! sorry, thats not all pures, but in general the attitude is rampant among you.

 

 

 

You will beat the pure, but you won't kill him. Prayer vs prayer does nothing but drag the fight out forever, ultimately wasting both of the fighter's supplies until one gets low enough they just run 6 steps to safety.

 

 

 

That's the real reason PKers hate prayer. It isn't an advantage for EITHER party, since the entire reason both of you are out there, to kill for loot, is just about raped by prayer. Instead of the best player getting a ko and some [cabbage], the best player slowly wears the other guy out then watches his target run to safety.

 

 

 

That's what I don't get about non-pkers that think they're being smart by using prayer when pking. They aren't being smart; they're shooting themselves in the foot and wasting their money while doing it. Sure, you may never die, but neither will the other guy.

 

 

 

And seriously, everybody uses stat bonus prayers. They aren't talking about piety or ultimate strength when they complain about prayer, so don't even go there.

 

 

 

dude you are assuming the 2 players have the SAME prayer level, praying the SAME prayers, have the SAME prayer bonus and drink the SAME number of prayer potions in the fight...i've already explained this in my previous posts above this one (if you scroll up you can see it)...

 

 

 

and by your logic then we should all remove our armour since it "drags" the fight on...and maybe all of us should stop training def and become pures too since it "drags" the fight on...woo hoo what wonderful words of advise...

 

 

 

Umm... what?

 

 

 

Sorry, he just explained it very nicely, and you crack down on that?

 

*puts on prayer of don't care*

 

 

 

Go back to fletching dear person, for thee are not wanted in a place where thou are an outcast.

[3hitm4g3u]

 

You're confused.

 

 

 

People are not complaining about protect prayers because they only have one type of attack method, but rather because it prolongs the fight, wastes resources, and lowers the chance of either player getting a pk.

 

 

 

Why? Because most pkers will not change weapons when someone prays, but rather will pray themselves or run from the prayer noob. This is not productive.

 

 

 

Actually they are complaining about the 1 combat type. You just said it yourself. It only "prolongs the fight, wastes resouces, and lowers the chance of the PK" for someone who dosent use the combat triangle. If you used the combat triangle, prayer wouldnt matter or prolong the fight, because you could simply change attack styles.

 

 

 

My point was people who pk with the "one gun honor code" handicap themselves making them "pray themselves or run from the prayer noob". If people used the combat traingle and used different forms of attack, prayer wouldnt matter.

 

 

 

People who dont pray and use 1 form of attack, are limiting themselves. A limit which I am free to exploit using all my combat types. Prayer is productive in a fight, but only if you fight correctly. If you dont fight correctly (with all of your abilities), thats not my fault you make your own handicap, and its a weakness I am willing to take advantage of. Its survival of the fittest.

 

 

 

EDIT: Keep in mind I am not insulting pures. I have a pure friend who a great pker pure, often making 3-4x as many kills as the times he dies. I have nothing against pures. But even as a pure, he knows to use more than 1 combat type. My argument is not about what levels you have, but using the levels that you already have.

 

 

 

You obviously have not read my posts/ actually gone pking yourself so I am not surprised you took my quote to mean people have only one attack type. If you look at a few more of my posts you will see I clearly stated that pkers are more likely to either run or pray themselves when confronted by a prayer noob, as opposed to switching attack styles, since the prayer noob will just protect against the other attack type anyway. This does prolong the fight and waste resources, since the prayer noob is likely to run afterwards.

 

 

 

But ok, show me some great pk videos where the main pker uses prayer and everyone complements them on their tactics. Show me one where noone complements them. Just find one? You cant?

 

 

 

You're confused.

 

 

 

People are not complaining about protect prayers because they only have one type of attack method, but rather because it prolongs the fight, wastes resources, and lowers the chance of either player getting a pk.

 

 

 

Why? Because most pkers will not change weapons when someone prays, but rather will pray themselves or run from the prayer noob. This is not productive*

 

 

 

For serious mate, you just lost, thrice over. You're an obsolete machine, who appearantly wont adapt, and like the dodo's are doomed to have a most hilarious downfall. (plays clip from "Ice Age"/kungfu dodo's)

 

 

 

I applaud the [cabbage] kicking you just received from brianite3, among others. Extremely well done.

 

 

 

 

 

*[hide=]It finally hit me that you've been reminding me of the Darlek this whole time =D> :lol:[/hide]

 

 

 

Lmao, care to elaborate on how I am an obsolete machine? Or are you just randomly spouting nonsense in the interest of spamming?

[brando13a]

3hit"mage you"- It isnt nonsence, you've said yourself that pures were beasts in RSC, since then they've lost most of their advantage, leaning on insults and degredation of others selfesteem to remain the "alpha dog" of the wilderness.

 

 

 

Most of my points are made on the fact that I've NEVER gone edge pking. I found it quite stupid, pointless, and annoying. Everyone talks of honor and such, but pray or not, they'll try to run away.

 

 

 

Now that we have that whole thing cleared up; that I havnt once been referring to edge pking, which was the original dueling in reality, except that people had no record of their shame when they ran.

 

 

 

As such, I make my argument assuming you are pking old school: level 30+ wilderness, where running means almost certain death, and staying for the fight is your only hope- supposing you've already been fighting and are on the verge of loosing that is. And there were many times when I encountered the "you skull first" while pking in deep wild.

 

 

 

 

 

another point for you 3hit "mage you"- I havnt met a serious solo pker with only one attack style. And I also havnt seen a serious solo pker who- has multiple attack styles- BUT insists on retaliating to prayer by praying back and NOT switching attack styles.

 

many times on pk trips I encountered people well above my level who spent more time switching prayers and calling me a prayer noob, than actually worrying about the fight itself, which lead to their downfall. If they had just taken the time to evaluate what I was doing, they could have killed me with ease.

 

 

 

No serious pker worries about their opponent complimenting them on their death. Whether you call me a noob or not doesnt change the fact that I'm looting your stuff.

 

 

 

So no, I'm not just spouting nonsense- I just havnt been clearly stating what I'm actually talking about, which is my fault to assume people would follow. so I'm sorry for the misconception- but all of my points have been on deep wild pking, rather than the edge pking gongshow. In the edge pking scenario, I agree that prayer would be a mistake, as your only hope of getting a kill would be to utterly destroy the opponent before they could react and run out of the wilderness.

[3hitm4g3u]

3hit"mage you"- It isnt nonsence, you've said yourself that pures were beasts in RSC, since then they've lost most of their advantage, leaning on insults and degredation of others selfesteem to remain the "alpha dog" of the wilderness.

 

 

 

Pures will always have a notorious reputation. This is nothing to do with insults. ALL pkers can get caught up in the moment and insult their prey. This is nothing new, and it will never end. It is not limited to pures so I do not appreciate it when you make it sound like the basic foundation of pures is their bad mouth.

 

 

 

Most of my points are made on the fact that I've NEVER gone edge pking. I found it quite stupid, pointless, and annoying. Everyone talks of honor and such, but pray or not, they'll try to run away.

 

 

 

If you have not experienced a main form of pking then you are really limited in your knowledge over it. I have done edge pking and I have done deep pking. I have been in teams, solo, on high level accounts, on low level accounts and I like to think my knowledge of pking in most aspects is above just adequate, as yours seems to be.

 

 

 

Now that we have that whole thing cleared up; that I havnt once been referring to edge pking, which was the original dueling in reality, except that people had no record of their shame when they ran.

 

 

 

Most people ran when they had the chance (unless, of course, it was a prearranged fight). I am not disputing this.

 

 

 

As such, I make my argument assuming you are pking old school: level 30+ wilderness, where running means almost certain death, and staying for the fight is your only hope- supposing you've already been fighting and are on the verge of loosing that is. And there were many times when I encountered the "you skull first" while pking in deep wild.

 

 

 

Who hasn't? Many a time I have had arguments in other places in the runescape world which have led to us going to wildy, and in them times "you skull first" is rampant. I have also seen this in other parts of the wildy, but the people who do this are normally low level or inadequate pkers.

 

 

 

 

 

another point for you 3hit "mage you"- I havnt met a serious solo pker with only one attack style. And I also havnt seen a serious solo pker who- has multiple attack styles- BUT insists on retaliating to prayer by praying back and NOT switching attack styles.

 

 

 

Stop calling me that k? 1337 names were actually considered cool when I made it :roll: .

 

 

 

Neither have I. As I have said before most good pkers bring a variety of attack methods. Most of the time a pker will disengage the fight when the noob begins to pray. I am not saying a pker has never changed their weapon when confronted with a prayer noob but rather praying back or running are the most common forms of retaliation.

 

 

 

mes on pk trips I encountered people well above my level who spent more time switching prayers and calling me a prayer noob, than actually worrying about the fight itself, which lead to their downfall. If they had just taken the time to evaluate what I was doing, they could have killed me with ease.

 

 

 

I just want to point out quickly that they prayed in retaliation.

 

 

 

Maybe they were not skillful in pking; you cannot assume the reason for their defeat. If I had a pound for every time I defeated a player higher then myself I would own runescape by now.

 

 

 

So no, I'm not just spouting nonsense- I just havnt been clearly stating what I'm actually talking about, which is my fault to assume people would follow. so I'm sorry for the misconception- but all of my points have been on deep wild pking, rather than the edge pking gongshow.

 

 

 

Your points are incorrect in various places.

 

 

 

In the edge pking scenario, I agree that prayer would be a mistake, as your only hope of getting a kill would be to utterly destroy the opponent before they could react and run out of the wilderness.

 

 

 

Agreed.

[DreamReaper]

Most of my points are made on the fact that I've NEVER gone edge pking. I found it quite stupid, pointless, and annoying. Everyone talks of honor and such, but pray or not, they'll try to run away.

 

 

 

This is why you shouldn't even contribute anything here. All you're doing is spouting bs and assumed truths. How can you even begin to argue that prayer should be used in pkign without ever even pking? Seriously, go back to fletching or whatever you skillers do nowadays.

 

 

 

my 2nd post does talk about protection prayers...in fact i talked about almost every type of prayer other than those not commonly used in fights...

 

 

 

more assumptions coming from the "advocates of no prayer"...assumptions such as "I'm sure you'll have enough to consistently pray throughout the fight even whilst using piety" are clearly unfounded and not backed by any elaboration or evidence...how can you be so sure about this? :roll: i seriously doubt the truth in this statement because for one, some pures do not even train pray and even if they do, many do not train till 43...please enlighten me on how someone with prayer level below 43 can pray protect melee :roll:

 

 

 

How can I be sure of this? At 70 prayer each prayer potion dose restores 24 prayer. That's 4 doses per potion (96)*(3) potions. 288 prayer points plus the original 70 which makes 358. Most pures DO train their prayer usually to at least 44. At the levels where pures and other pkers have low prayer, they have around maybe 65-75 combat. So, realistically if you're fighting someone and you're not a pure, you're most likely going to be over 80 combat, where everyone has prayer.

 

 

 

and when you say that "The thing about armor is that it doesn't give a 50% damage reduction" i do beg to differ...hmm why not just consider someone wearing full torag with dfs...i really wonder how many people feel that player A with nothing but protect from melee can outlast prayer B with full torag and dfs :-w

 

 

 

Can the player with nothing only do half damage? No, but the player with full torag and the dfs can. Assuming they both have a whip and dds. I put my money on the guy with prayer.

 

 

 

EVEN if player A does so happen to outlast player B the difference will be small...also, jagex probably knows that current defense items already do reduce damage quite significantly or they would not have introduced the divine shield with 30% damage reduction on top of it's superior stats already from just one item for fear of making holders of such an item invincible...thus, i daresay full torag and dfs do reduce damage by more than 50%...

 

 

 

What? You're saying that since armor was too good Jagex introduced something to make it better? I think I'm reading this right. Also, how many divine shields are there in the game right now? 1? Perhaps 2? They're incredibly rare. Whoever pks with them is just asking to get piled by anyone and everyone in the vicinity.

 

 

 

and from the last part of the previous post: "I don't care. Pray to save your [wagon], whatever. Pray continuously throughout the fight, go die in a hole."

 

we can see how advocates of "no prayer" have nothing left and nothing better to say but to agree with our point that praying is perfectly fine unless we should all take off our armour as well...so in future before you start arguing about not using pray in fights please argue the case of not using in armour in fights and perhaps even the case that everyone shouldn't train defense since it just "prolongs the fight"...if you can do that successfully, then and only then will you have no problem getting everyone convinced that we shouldn't use prayers =D>

 

 

 

Most sane people pk for fun, praying throughout the fight makes it stupid and boring, not only because you hit a TON of zeros, you also have the damage done reduced by about 50%. Armor can't do that. Without defence you wouldn't be able to access piety, or strength boosting armor, like the fighter torso and void knight (not like anyone uses melee void for pking). If you're using the fighter torso, verac's skirt, neitiznot helm, barrows gloves, dragon boots, a rune defender, and piety, the fight is pretty much even in length with those that have 1 defence. The zeros from prayer matter very little, it's the huge damage reduction that irks me, which allows for nearly a 5% chance.

 

 

 

and not to worry...i'll certainly be praying throughout the fight and to save my [wagon]...yup that is one thing that you got right :thumbup: that said, if there is one thing that everyone can learn from the previous post is that everyone who feels that prayer should not be used should follow this guy's attitude and "not care about those who pray" cause it isn't going to make a damn bit of difference to us =;

 

 

 

And I won't even bother fighting with anyone who prays melee throughout the fight. If items in a game are more important than your self-worth, who am I to judge? And just as our whining to you won't make a difference, you're pro overhead prayer attitude won't make us change our minds about running from you.

 

 

 

My responses are in green

 

 

 

To those of you telling people to "hybrid", stop thinking fist of guthix and clan wars provide a realistic example of how pking works. If you feel the need to bring rune (or barrows) and dragonhide with a bow and arrows to succed in FAIR 1V1 PKING Just know, I'll have fun looting your grave.

[brando13a]

Most of my points are made on the fact that I've NEVER gone edge pking. I found it quite stupid, pointless, and annoying. Everyone talks of honor and such, but pray or not, they'll try to run away.

 

 

 

This is why you shouldn't even contribute anything here. All you're doing is spouting bs and assumed truths. How can you even begin to argue that prayer should be used in pkign without ever even pking? Seriously, go back to fletching or whatever you skillers do nowadays.

 

 

 

 

 

=D> You win the stupid award for October 14th, 2008! congratulations!

 

 

 

If you bothered to actually read my post, you'd notice how I was reiterating on the fact that I noticed a large misconception with a majority of my posts. My posts were intended to adress deep wild pking, an area I am well versed in, as opposed to edge pking, where I have little to no experience*.

 

 

 

* [hide=]( 7 edge fights on my main rounded account, 6 won, 1 kill, 1 loss. on my melee/range pure I had many more fights ~30, with a much better average, but still only about a 20% margin of actually getting a kill. The only difference between the two accounts, was my pure couldnt pray, only had enough for 10% strength modifier, where my main rounded account could pray. My information gives me the base to conclude that: regardless of what you do, very few people will play with "honor" and stay and die. praying is a non issue based on my data. HOWEVER: i dont have enough data to be concise in my conclusion.)[/hide]

 

 

 

I'll have you know that my main account, when i last had members, has a fletching level of 60 flat. so go suck a big one you pompous fool if you assume I'm not knowledgeable in my area of discussion. I play how I feel, and I felt that deep wilderness absolutely trumped edge pking for fun and profit, that's my area of expertice, and thats what I discuss.

 

 

 

Good day to you sir.

 

 

 

And again to 3hit "mage you" * *(sorry about the spelling, it just bothers me a great deal to type in the "leet speek")

 

 

 

So no, I'm not just spouting nonsense- I just havnt been clearly stating what I'm actually talking about, which is my fault to assume people would follow. so I'm sorry for the misconception- but all of my points have been on deep wild pking, rather than the edge pking gongshow.

 

 

 

 

 

Your points are incorrect in various places.

 

 

 

Rather than simply say I'm wrong, please prove I'm wrong.

 

 

 

A short version of my thoughts of prayer regarding deep wilderness pking:

 

In such a case, of 1v1, It is completely fine to use protect prayers. If I want to waste their food and mine, that is my choice, and if they dont like it, they still have to deal with it. If it causes them to type their distaste for my action, all the better for me. It is a tactic, and it keeps me alive longer, conserving my resources for as long as I can hold them off effectively. It is a paradoxil(sp?) situation in that depending on my opponent, I may conserve my own food, or simply waste both of our resource pools. In most situations, you are better off praying, 30% off of the hits you take is an invaluable asset, and shouldnt be taken lightly. Praying isnt so much to ensure someone dies, as in deep wilderness escape is not very likely, but mroe to ensure that you win whatever the outcome.

[DreamReaper]

Most of my points are made on the fact that I've NEVER gone edge pking. I found it quite stupid, pointless, and annoying. Everyone talks of honor and such, but pray or not, they'll try to run away.

 

 

 

This is why you shouldn't even contribute anything here. All you're doing is spouting bs and assumed truths. How can you even begin to argue that prayer should be used in pkign without ever even pking? Seriously, go back to fletching or whatever you skillers do nowadays.

 

 

 

 

 

=D> You win the stupid award for October 14th, 2008! congratulations!

 

 

 

If you bothered to actually read my post, you'd notice how I was reiterating on the fact that I noticed a large misconception with a majority of my posts. My posts were intended to adress deep wild pking, an area I am well versed in, as opposed to edge pking, where I have little to no experience*.

 

 

 

* [hide=]( 7 edge fights on my main rounded account, 6 won, 1 kill, 1 loss. on my melee/range pure I had many more fights ~30, with a much better average, but still only about a 20% margin of actually getting a kill. The only difference between the two accounts, was my pure couldnt pray, only had enough for 10% strength modifier, where my main rounded account could pray. My information gives me the base to conclude that: regardless of what you do, very few people will play with "honor" and stay and die. praying is a non issue based on my data. HOWEVER: i dont have enough data to be concise in my conclusion.)[/hide]

 

 

 

So, you pked in deep wildy, huh? Those green dragon autoers got you praying melee? Oh, I'm so sorry. I had no idea they were THAT tough. The way you go on about honor and needing to pray in fights left me with the impression that you actually fought people that had skill. Looks like I was totally wrong. I apologize for not bothering to read the whole blasphemous text, about how prayer is so epic.

 

 

 

I'll have you know that my main account, when i last had members, has a fletching level of 60 flat. so go suck a big one you pompous fool if you assume I'm not knowledgeable in my area of discussion. I play how I feel, and I felt that deep wilderness absolutely trumped edge pking for fun and profit, that's my area of expertice, and thats what I discuss.

 

 

 

Real mature. :roll: Opinions are opinions, you think I'm a "pompous fool who should suck a big one", that's nice. I'll keep my opinion of you to myself, I'm mature enough to keep my temper in check, for now.

 

 

 

Good day to you sir.

[3hitm4g3u]

 

A short version of my thoughts of prayer regarding deep wilderness pking:

 

In such a case, of 1v1, It is completely fine to use protect prayers. If I want to waste their food and mine, that is my choice, and if they dont like it, they still have to deal with it. If it causes them to type their distaste for my action, all the better for me. It is a tactic, and it keeps me alive longer, conserving my resources for as long as I can hold them off effectively. It is a paradoxil(sp?) situation in that depending on my opponent, I may conserve my own food, or simply waste both of our resource pools. In most situations, you are better off praying, 30% off of the hits you take is an invaluable asset, and shouldnt be taken lightly. Praying isnt so much to ensure someone dies, as in deep wilderness escape is not very likely, but mroe to ensure that you win whatever the outcome.

 

 

 

When your main plan in pking is simply to survive I cannot see the benefit of me elaborating on the situation involving prayer and its use of it.

 

 

 

You are not a pker.

 

 

 

You may indeed have occasionally strolled into the wilderness and maybe even got a kill or two. Good for you. But you are not a pker and thus you are not at liberty to be in a discussion with pkers about pking.

[brando13a]

When your main plan in pking is simply to survive I cannot see the benefit of me elaborating on the situation involving prayer and its use of it.

 

 

 

You are not a pker.

 

 

 

You may indeed have occasionally strolled into the wilderness and maybe even got a kill or two. Good for you. But you are not a pker and thus you are not at liberty to be in a discussion with pkers about pking.

 

 

 

 

 

You elaborating on my "confusion" or mistakes on the subject would benefit ME, and my understanding. Sofar, I've had you-on several occasions- tell me that I'm wrong, with not so much as a hint of why, or reasoning past "you wouldnt understand" "you're not eligible for the information" "It's a pker thing" "you've never pked before so dont try to talk about it"

 

 

 

All this tells me, is someone says I'm wrong, but gives no actual evidence past accusations at my welfare in the area of player killing int he wilderness. This doesnt tell me that I should change my view, or in any way alter my argument, as I've seen no information worthy of making me reconsider what I've said.

 

 

 

While it is true I'm not a diehard pker- I also enjoy the rest of the game too, I find it enjoyable to try and explore all aspects of a game before I can fully have a true opinion of it. It's not right to say I have no valid input because Pking isnt all I played runescape for, but likewise I'm not the go to guy for information on the subject, I formed my own style utilizing a cheap(inexpensive), mass attack(swapping between all 3 attack styles) with average defence (d-hide/rune mix at the time), boosted by prayers all around (stat/protect).

 

 

 

Now this last point kinda pisses me off. I spent many hours pking, in clans, on my own, with duos, what have you. I've made a fair amount of money pking, nothing especially spectacular, but nothing that anyone could call sad by any stretch of the imagination. I pride myself in "not being a pker" But also take pride in the fact that I know how if I so choose to do so. Barring me from the discussion based on the fact that I havnt pked as much as YOU is a biased comment, and not fair according to written laws of free expression.

 

 

 

"Not at liberty to discuss" because you find your view superior to mine. beautiful.

 

 

 

Thats like a child with pokemon cards saying "you dont have a *pokemon name here*, therefore you arent at liberty to talk about pokemon". a childish comparison to be sure, but it makes the point all the same. However, that's a whole different issue in life, and I'll do my best to let it slide in the future.

 

 

 

As for DreamReaper- Where in any of my comments did I give the remotest mention of anything green, let alone autoing green dragon slaying bots? I'd like to see you in the science community, saying that cancer is curable, because cheese ISNT found on the moon. because that makes about as much sense as where you're drawing your conclusions from here.

 

 

 

[hide=]In addition, I can be as mature as I please, I have no problem with lowering my social rank in a faceless, online community of people to whom I'll never have any other relations. I respect the opinions of those who post here, as long as they make sense and are honest in their intent to work for a constructive end, however when people make biased and ridiculous assumptions based on no fact whatsoever, I have a problem. and with that problem I'll call you what I please within the perameters the board will allow. Dont act so high and mighty as to have me believe you are in any way my superior- you are, against my better judgement, my equal, until I have conclusive evidence to prove myself wrong, and believe me you're working on that steadily.[/hide]

[DreamReaper]

As for DreamReaper- Where in any of my comments did I give the remotest mention of anything green, let alone autoing green dragon slaying bots? I'd like to see you in the science community, saying that cancer is curable, because cheese ISNT found on the moon. because that makes about as much sense as where you're drawing your conclusions from here.

 

 

 

What else are you going to pk in "deep wildy". I don't see you pking at the mage bank, but if you do, ignore this comment. Who are you going to kill? The clans that frequent mid-level wilderness? Assuming you don't have a clan, I don't see this happening. If you do have a clan however, ignore this comment. Are you going to kill the clue-scrollers that run up in the wildy to complete their clues? My opinion of you isn't this low, yet. Did you kill those that pked above edgeville around level 10-15? I still consider this area to be part of edgeville. And really the only people that pked up their that I saw were mid-level pures. I don't know at what level you were when you did this, but I'd assume you were higher than 70-80 combat. Of course you could have pked solo in the mid-level wilderness, and yes, lots of people prayed up there when they got rushed and tbed, so they wouldn't lose their stuff. If you attempted that, you probably would have gotten tagged to death.That leaves the green dragon pkers, and the green dragon killers. Logic and deductive reasoning(or inductive, it doesn't really matter) are how I reached this conclusion.

 

 

 

Oh, and if the moon were made of cheese, it would have most likely melted unleashing some chain of events that would lead to mankind's demise. So, yes. Cancer is curable because the moon isn't made of cheese

 

 

 

[hide=]In addition, I can be as mature as I please, I have no problem with lowering my social rank in a faceless, online community of people to whom I'll never have any other relations. I respect the opinions of those who post here, as long as they make sense and are honest in their intent to work for a constructive end, however when people make biased and ridiculous assumptions based on no fact whatsoever, I have a problem. and with that problem I'll call you what I please within the perameters the board will allow. Dont act so high and mighty as to have me believe you are in any way my superior- you are, against my better judgement, my equal, until I have conclusive evidence to prove myself wrong, and believe me you're working on that steadily.[/hide]

 

 

 

 

 

If you have no problem lowering your social ranking, I have no problem making ridiculous assumptions. If you see this as me attempting to demean the authority you have, it isn't. I apologize if it appeared that way.

[Infi]

Brandon, I just skimmed your post and do you're now talking about cancer and cheese? Where has the relevancy gone? :P

[davidium]

 

 

 

my 2nd post does talk about protection prayers...in fact i talked about almost every type of prayer other than those not commonly used in fights...

 

 

 

more assumptions coming from the "advocates of no prayer"...assumptions such as "I'm sure you'll have enough to consistently pray throughout the fight even whilst using piety" are clearly unfounded and not backed by any elaboration or evidence...how can you be so sure about this? :roll: i seriously doubt the truth in this statement because for one, some pures do not even train pray and even if they do, many do not train till 43...please enlighten me on how someone with prayer level below 43 can pray protect melee :roll:

 

 

 

How can I be sure of this? At 70 prayer each prayer potion dose restores 24 prayer. That's 4 doses per potion (96)*(3) potions. 288 prayer points plus the original 70 which makes 358. Most pures DO train their prayer usually to at least 44. At the levels where pures and other pkers have low prayer, they have around maybe 65-75 combat. So, realistically if you're fighting someone and you're not a pure, you're most likely going to be over 80 combat, where everyone has prayer.

 

 

 

not everyone is going to bring the same number of prayer potions nor is everyone going to be praying the same prayers....there will definitely be a player that will last longer and in f2p fights which are usually much longer and slower, the additional prayer points can make all the difference...also, you are talking about 70 prayer but most pures have prayer levels around 40-50 like you said. if that is the case each prayer dose will restore their prayer points by a smaller amount AND if they were to pray protection prayers they will have to drink prayer doses more often which means hit less...which could be the difference between life and death. which is why they don't like pro prayers

 

 

 

and when you say that "The thing about armor is that it doesn't give a 50% damage reduction" i do beg to differ...hmm why not just consider someone wearing full torag with dfs...i really wonder how many people feel that player A with nothing but protect from melee can outlast prayer B with full torag and dfs :-w

 

 

 

Can the player with nothing only do half damage? No, but the player with full torag and the dfs can. Assuming they both have a whip and dds. I put my money on the guy with prayer.

 

 

 

i wasn't talking about a player wearing nothing so please, once again, do not assume that i am talking about...i am saying that since prayer impedes a fight and makes it last longer which armour happens to do so as well, we should all take off armour and prayer to speed things up ya? try telling that to everyone...no where did i say we should take off our weapon in fact i'm certain i said we should all hold a weapon in my post...do you really feel that someone wearing nothing but protect melee will last longer in a fight with say a greater demon than someone wearing full torag and drag sq?

 

 

 

EVEN if player A does so happen to outlast player B the difference will be small...also, jagex probably knows that current defense items already do reduce damage quite significantly or they would not have introduced the divine shield with 30% damage reduction on top of it's superior stats already from just one item for fear of making holders of such an item invincible...thus, i daresay full torag and dfs do reduce damage by more than 50%...

 

 

 

What? You're saying that since armor was too good Jagex introduced something to make it better? I think I'm reading this right. Also, how many divine shields are there in the game right now? 1? Perhaps 2? They're incredibly rare. Whoever pks with them is just asking to get piled by anyone and everyone in the vicinity.

 

 

 

i'm saying that the current armour must be somewhere near the level of the new shields...it can't be that the new shields provide multiple times as much a damage reduction than dfs or torag...so seeing that the divine provides 30% damage reduction on top of its godly stats i'm saying that someone wearing full torag and crystal shield/dragon sq should definitely be able to reduce damage by 50%...after all it is 1 item (divine) versus 4 items (dragon sq, torag helm, plate, legs) i mentioned this only because someone was saying that full torag and dfs does not give 50% damage reduction which is totally [cabbage].

 

and there can't be just 1 or 2 of those shields...looking at how fast it's price is rising shows that there must be quite a few of those shields because the price only rises when a trade on the GE occurs so the fact that it's price is rising quickly shows that there are quite a few of such trades taking place. and if people pk in AGS, i'm sure they will pk in the "shield version of AGS" don't forget that AGS and SGS were once more than 100M in value but people pking with them were still aplenty. don't underestimate the rich in runescape ;)

 

 

 

and from the last part of the previous post: "I don't care. Pray to save your [wagon], whatever. Pray continuously throughout the fight, go die in a hole."

 

we can see how advocates of "no prayer" have nothing left and nothing better to say but to agree with our point that praying is perfectly fine unless we should all take off our armour as well...so in future before you start arguing about not using pray in fights please argue the case of not using in armour in fights and perhaps even the case that everyone shouldn't train defense since it just "prolongs the fight"...if you can do that successfully, then and only then will you have no problem getting everyone convinced that we shouldn't use prayers =D>

 

 

 

Most sane people pk for fun, praying throughout the fight makes it stupid and boring, not only because you hit a TON of zeros, you also have the damage done reduced by about 50%. Armor can't do that. Without defence you wouldn't be able to access piety, or strength boosting armor, like the fighter torso and void knight (not like anyone uses melee void for pking). If you're using the fighter torso, verac's skirt, neitiznot helm, barrows gloves, dragon boots, a rune defender, and piety, the fight is pretty much even in length with those that have 1 defence. The zeros from prayer matter very little, it's the huge damage reduction that irks me, which allows for nearly a 5% chance.

 

 

 

using a rune scim, i've hit 20+ on players praying melee protect before so prayer does not give you a 50% damage reduction all the time...i'm certain that full torag with dfs or even drag sq gives better protection than pro melee

[davidium]

dude you are assuming the 2 players have the SAME prayer level, praying the SAME prayers, have the SAME prayer bonus and drink the SAME number of prayer potions in the fight...i've already explained this in my previous posts above this one (if you scroll up you can see it)...

 

 

 

and by your logic then we should all remove our armour since it "drags" the fight on...and maybe all of us should stop training def and become pures too since it "drags" the fight on...woo hoo what wonderful words of advise...

 

 

 

I saw your post, it wasn't worth addressing. I rarely run out of prayer in pvp, and that's versus smiters. That's a nonfactor. In the worst case scenarios you sprint out when you use your last dose. Just because your prayer might last 20 seconds longer doesn't mean [cabbage] when the other guy decides to run and the best you can do is hope for a 27 over prayer. Like I said, you will NOT ko me if I use prayer. End of discussion. It's not a duel or a minigame, there's absolutely nothing keeping me there when I run low on prayer or food.

 

 

 

If anybody needs it read, it's you. I said before I'm not in any way a pure. I pk with full armor. The entire difference between armor and prayer is armor does NOT get in the way of a decent fight, and while it slows down damage, it does not completely negate any form of ko ability. I could head out in 40m+ worth of tanking gear, +400 slash def, and still get koed by a lucky spec. That's not going to happen with 43.

 

 

 

Seriously get your [wagon] out of your wagon and learn something about pking, ignorant arguments based off inexperience aren't going to win [cabbage]. Your opinion is meaningless until you've actually done some real pvp. And sorry, but CW and the Duel arena are NOT pvp.

 

 

 

it is entirely possible to dish out high hits when your opponent is praying protection prayers...firstly skillful pkers will find it comfortable switching to msb/dbow to spec when their opponent is praying melee pro or switching to dds when their opponent is praying range pro and even if it is a melee battle and both players are playing melee pro it is entirely possible to score a high hit...

 

 

 

you keep imagining that players are fighting at edge or something...when the other player starts running away there's nothing stopping you from chasing them...that's what your run energy is for in case you were wondering...alternatively you could cast an ice barrage followed by d bow spec which should easily hit over 50 if your opponent is melee protecting.

 

 

 

ONE of the purpose of prayer is to put more variety in the game and prevent players from just using a single style of combat all through a battle...if you are really a pro pker it should be easy enough for you to switch styles quickly when your opponent prays a protection prayer. by doing so you can effectively render their protection prayers useless...if you are too lazy or do not have the skill to do so then i really do not know what to say...

 

 

 

and stop acting as though everyone has not pked before and you are the only person who pks...i didn't get my stats maxed out for nothing...and i only prefer fighting with people with similar stats so that the battle will be a real test of skill of style switching and tatics rather than a boring and mundane one where you just use the same style over and over again...i've played rs for more than 6 years now and pked since rsc so stop talking as though you are the king of pk...if you are really that good you will be able to kill your opponent even if he is pro praying...a real professional is easily able to adapt to changes that come his way and exploit the situation even if it may seem to be against him...

[Grogthurk]

Honestly....

 

 

 

If you don't like prayer don't use it.

 

 

 

Don't tell ME how to play the game.

 

 

 

Wanna know how to judge skill in a kill?

 

 

 

IF YOU KILL THEM.

 

 

 

 

 

Who cares if you pray, who cares if you're a "def nuub".

 

 

 

You Pk'rs need to get over yourselves.

[davidium]

yea i agree with ralag...stop setting your own rules...this isn't your game nor are you the only individual playing...the rules are set by jagex so either you learn to live with them or run away from the battle like a coward...if you are really that pro you should easily be able to kill opponents who pray protection prayers like i've seen people do on countless occasions...

 

 

 

stop setting imaginary rules which you think that everyone should adhere too...this is real life, please wake up from your fantasy world...you aren't the king...you are just another statistic.

[3hitm4g3u]

Honestly....

 

 

 

If you don't like prayer don't use it.

 

 

 

Don't tell ME how to play the game.

 

 

 

Wanna know how to judge skill in a kill?

 

 

 

IF YOU KILL THEM.

 

 

 

 

 

Who cares if you pray, who cares if you're a "def nuub".

 

 

 

You Pk'rs need to get over yourselves.

 

 

 

You have nothing to fear, we are not speaking about praying in FOG.

 

 

 

Stick to safe clan wars and pray there, so the real pkers can pk k?

[slaytanicc]

Honestly....

 

 

 

If you don't like prayer don't use it.

 

 

 

Don't tell ME how to play the game.

 

 

 

Wanna know how to judge skill in a kill?

 

 

 

IF YOU KILL THEM.

 

 

 

 

 

Who cares if you pray, who cares if you're a "def nuub".

 

 

 

You Pk'rs need to get over yourselves.

 

 

 

You have nothing to fear, we are not speaking about praying in FOG.

 

 

 

Stick to safe clan wars and pray there, so the real pkers can pk k?

 

I think PK'ers are pathetic. RS is a war game. Do you think kings of the ancient gave a fart about what their opposing would have said had they used their "praying to gods"? Its called war for one reason - There are NOOOOO rules. Get over it. do what you want, kill how you want. The only REAL PK'er is a pk'er who accepts a win or a loss in whichever way it may or may not come. Pures should just not be allowed, then RS would be a more piecefull community, without all the pures running around calling people noobs for owning them.... :wall:

[3hitm4g3u]

Pures should just not be allowed, then RS would be a more piecefull community, without all the pures running around calling people noobs for owning them.... :wall:

 

 

 

Pures own teh noobs k?

 

 

 

Nah but seriously stfu.

 

 

 

RS is a war game.

 

 

 

RS would be a more piecefull community

 

 

 

Make up your mind son.