Why does everyone think governments are evil/out to get us?

[trapical]

I have learned a lot on the internet and have come to understand many different viewpoints and ways of thinking. But I can't for the life of me understand the whole "big brother" idea that seemingly 80% of the internet is worried about. Apparently people are worried that their phone calls to their friends and their emails are being listened into. They worry that the patriot act means all their text messages and MSN chats are being watched by the CIA. They worry that all their emails are being read by the FBI, and (my personal favorite) that George Bush will declare martial law on election day and announce himself dictator.

 

 

 

Seriously, wtf? I don't even know where to start with this. Do you guys (addressing those who post about the in the above) really believe this stuff?

 

 

 

The CIA is reading our emails... somehow.

 

The constitution declares that Congress be in charge of the budget. This has created some national security issues such as when it when listed for all to see that 5 million dollars went to "Bribes for Soviet officers" on the annual CIA budget in the cold war. Likewise the current national budget listing show that 20,000 people are employed around the world by the CIA. Now I ask again, do you believe the CIA really reads all of your emails? Statisticians estimate that over 2 million emails are sent every second. So, addressing the 20,000 CIA employees, have fun reading those. Even if an additional 10 million people were hired in secret (lol), there is no way they could even remotely go though all that data.

 

Some of you may be thinking "they will filter the emails for key words like terrorist" that would still amount to thousands of emails every second. In this case I'm pretty sure the CIA/FBI/NSA would rather spend their time going after the real terrorists than after your emails.

 

 

 

Speaking of that, what exactly are you guys worried about anyway. Let's say the CIA employed 100 million people and they do read every since email and message you sent. Who cares? Honestly, who cares if some reads your email about the huge bong you made last night, or the text message you sent your friend telling him you scored last night. You know what? Here, read my last 5 emails: http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dc2gjkb2_163dmkkhfxm

 

 

 

George Bush will make himself King.

 

This really makes my lol. I am going to be a happy man when Obama takes office, not because I'm a huge democrat but just because then I can point to the millions of people that said he is becoming Hitler and such and just say "Ha ha, you were wrong. Sorry to disappoint you, but yes, we still have a democracy"

 

Anyone who thinks Bush could honestly suspend the elections is delusional, we're in a country of 300 of the most patriotic, freedom defending citizens in the world... and many of us have guns. I almost want Bush to try it, it would be a fun 3 hours before everything was restored to normal.

[magekillr]

I blame these men/the men that created these films:

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_(film)

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones_(radio)

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist,_the_Movie

 

 

 

It's nothing more than an internet phenomenon, Trapical. These are your Ron Paul libertarian worshipers, that have basically taken over the internet and youtube.

 

 

 

They do monitor phone calls made out of the country, though.

[dsavi]

But the CIA did hire 200 million people!

 

 

 

Man never landed on the moon! 9/11 was a conspiracy! The earth is flat!

 

(Etc. Etc.) Yeah I agree it's a load of crap.

[deloriagod]

You've got to admit, the United States gov't is very corrupt. But the things you talked about were more amusing than anything.

[BlueLancer]

I got to agree that's one reason why I never liked government talk mostly on other forums... The people believing in ridiculous, unplausible government conspiracies to 'get you' are so convinced it's even more difficult than talking to an absolute conservative religious nut who insists the world was never round.

 

 

 

Some of you may be thinking "they will filter the emails for key words like terrorist" that would still amount to thousands of emails every second. In this case I'm pretty sure the CIA/FBI/NSA would rather spend their time going after the real terrorists than after your emails.

 

 

 

Yep one of my favourites, "they monitor ALL emails". Yeah, and it's as if the real threats will actually use words like 'terrorist'. I dare you, think about it.

 

 

 

 

"From: [email protected]"

 

"To: [email protected]

 

"Subject: The terrorist attack

 

 

 

"Hi Tyler, don't forget the terrorist nuclear attack we're conducting today. Make sure the CIA and secret service headquarters lights get turned off today so the president can be murdered smoothly. My associate will later install the C4 in the senate building."

 

 

 

Who the hell isn't going to speak in code and very likely, their native language's specific dialect if sending electronic messages to servers located in the US? :lol: Filtering for any keywords is counter-productive, because everyone knows what to avoid.

 

 

 

They don't have resources to monitor 300 million phone lines and countless emails/text messages every second of the day. The government (or as mentioned, more like 20,000 paid staff) will spend wire tapping resources on people it already suspects of crimes, not on a suburban middle class guy who works at Burger King and thinks the world is conspiring against him.

[Skull]

Well if they do use keywords, you probably just got this thread some attention :lol:

 

 

 

On topic though, I didn't think anyone actually believed any of this, I always assumed they were joking. I can't see how you could, especially Bush trying to become king. I mean sure he's not the greatest of presidents, but he's no hitler and I'm sure he'd be able to figure out that it would never work.

[cadburys_egg]

But if theyre not watching us, what are they doing? Running the country? Do you know how crazy that makes you sound?

[deloriagod]

 

On topic though, I didn't think anyone actually believed any of this, I always assumed they were joking. I can't see how you could, especially Bush trying to become king. I mean sure he's not the greatest of presidents, but he's no hitler and I'm sure he'd be able to figure out that it would never work.

 

 

 

You have much to learn. Let the internet be your guide and know that nothing is a joke.

[Dizzle229]

My only worry of corruption is this scenario:

 

 

 

Mccaine becomes president. He will likely die in office. Then Sarah Palin, who we know is corrupt, gets to become president :ohnoes:

[dsavi]

It's not called corruption, it's just plain inadequacy.

[magekillr]

It's not called corruption, it's just plain inadequacy.

 

 

 

Well, she fires people for personal reasons, and hires her best friends...I'd call that corruption.

[Dizzle229]

It's not called corruption, it's just plain inadequacy.

 

 

 

Well, she fires people for personal reasons, and hires her best friends...I'd call that corruption.

 

 

 

 

 

And we all know about the 150k coat that came out of taxpayers pockets. It wasn't even her money at any point.

[indy500fan]

While the Bush declaring martial law on election day thing is stupid to worry about, I don't think complaining about domestic spying is a bad thing. Sure right now it is pretty pointless to worry about, but complaining about it now slows down the chances of the programs getting expanded further and further.

[Lenin64]

It's not called corruption, it's just plain inadequacy.

 

 

 

Well, she fires people for personal reasons, and hires her best friends...I'd call that corruption.

 

Nah, that's not corruption. That's just being an idiot.

 

 

 

I know everyone can see this coming blindfolded from a mile away, but always laugh at those who proclaim that the government "wants our organs" or "is watching every move you make through secretly planted bugs" and such. But yes, some e-mails are probably being read, but as Trapical said, why do you care if some agent you'll likely never, ever see, ever knows what you're doing for vacation, or what your breakup was like, or whatever you talk about in e-mails? Governmental interference is probably the single thing that I'm not paranoid over.

[deathdrow]

I know everyone can see this coming blindfolded from a mile away, but always laugh at those who proclaim that the government "wants our organs" or "is watching every move you make through secretly planted bugs" and such.

 

That's cause they do steal our organs and are watching us. :ohnoes: :ohnoes: :ohnoes:

[Zierro]

Wait a second. Are you implying that the government's priority is the best interest of the citizens or are you just directing your post towards just those issues specifically? Please don't say the first one.

[trapical]

I'm not implying that the government is 100% focused on the best interest of the citizens, or anything else for that matter. I think we all have the misconception that the government knows whats its doing. I don't mean that as a mockery, I mean that in the fact that the people that are running things are no different from you or I.

 

 

 

I got elected student rep for the Faculty Honors Board at my college. It makes me the student rep on the panel that decides what classes will be offered next year. And let me tell ya, there is so much crap that I really don't feel like doing. Setting up shadow days, talking to honors students, calling local business for guest speakers, getting surveys organized... it sucks really. At the meetings the chairmen says "The music department requests another $8,000 so they can take a trip to Chicago to see the museum there... or something. They weren't very clear. Anyway lets vote" and we vote and pretty much pass any request since were sick of hearing all of them.

 

Or just like in classes I will just zone out for like 5 minutes and then I notice were voting on something. I vote yes since everyone else is. I later find out it was a vote to let a student who was failing be given one more semester to get his grades up, if we voted no the student would have been expelled. I always assumed the person in this position would be really into it and different than the rest of us, but thats not true. The president of Iran? He's just like us. He likes free time and thinks his job can be stressful. Sure he has a military under his command but I'm willing to bet half the time he just tells his #2 to take care of things for him.

 

 

 

I'm sure some senators have minds like this: "Oh the bridges are falling apart? Didn't we give money for them a while ago? Oh that was 12 years ago? Wow, thought it was more recent...Well, we'll give them some more money I guess, lets just put off dealing with the deficit until tomorrow... yea, we can put that off."

 

The people in power aren't so different from the rest of us, that explains how things fall apart so easily.

[Zierro]

I know what you mean since they are only human and all, but under certain circumstances (like when there are lives in danger) I don't think it's acceptable at all to take the lazy way out. They knew what they were getting themselves into when they signed up so they should take full responsibility. This is the problem I have with the government, but then again it might just be the "I could do it better" mentality speaking for me.

[warren211]

I don't see how viewing emails will help anything. Anyone who is going to discuss sich a massive undertaking will certainly use some kind of code. As the nice example soemwhere above says, they're probably not going to flat out say "we're meeting under the bridge at 3 PM to assassinate the president. Bring a gun and a bomb. we are terrorists."

 

 

 

What key words would be useful? Terrorist? They'll get all kinds of forewarded news stories about terrorists. Guns/weapons? Hah, I can think of dozens of subjects you can discuss involving guns, none of which include terrorism. Al-Quaida (sp)? Good luck finding an email about al-quaida that's NOT written by a member of the group.

[Ginger_Warrior]

The Man on the Moon thing is a bit suspicious. That said, there's nothing to say it didn't happen.

 

 

 

The only conspiracy theory I even vaguely agree with is the Kennedy assassination. The "magic bullet" theory has been disproved and I think there is a clear motive for the establishment to stop JFK's policies given it was in the climax of the Cold War and many of his policies were seen at the time as bordering socialism (equality to blacks and all that).

 

 

 

Of course, if that was their motive, it failed because of how the emotional reaction to the event perhaps ironically pushed forward the civil rights movement in America, amongst other things.

 

 

 

On the whole, I have faith in the government that they're genuinely trying to do the right thing as they see it though. A handful are corrupt, but you'll find those sorts everywhere in life, even some doctors and lawyers.

 

 

 

BREAKING NEWS from the Daily Mail, that fine bastion of Great British journalism: they've thwarted yet another attempt by the Labour Bloc to seize control of the nation.

 

 

 

Makes me laugh people believe this trash.

[Da_Latios]

Well, since our government is placing an ISP-based content filter in to play soon, it's not that hard to believe...

[warri0r45]

I generally don't believe government conspiracies. Most of them sound overly paranoid and unrealistic.

 

 

 

The Man on the Moon thing is a bit suspicious. That said, there's nothing to say it didn't happen.

 

 

 

What's suspicious about it?

[Ginger_Warrior]

The shadows from the lander, the astronauts and the flag do not move at all throughout the whole 40 minute footage NASA provided of the flag being placed into the ground. That's not evidence, and I don't necessarily believe it was faked, but there are grounds for suspicion there.

 

 

 

There's also quite a clear motive.

 

 

 

There's talk of them taking pictures of the landing site but that won't stop the theorists. Anything can be edited these days. I swear it's not possible for anyone's eyes to be as radiantly blue as Zac Effron's.

[michel555555]

I generally don't believe government conspiracies. Most of them sound overly paranoid and unrealistic.

 

 

 

The Man on the Moon thing is a bit suspicious. That said, there's nothing to say it didn't happen.

 

 

 

What's suspicious about it?

 

 

 

the fact that the flag moves, that theres no stars in any pics, and for the life of me i can't figure out how the US got on the moon before rusia even though thet had a man in space before the US. i do believe that the moon landing was real though these are just some of the arguments people use

[warri0r45]

I generally don't believe government conspiracies. Most of them sound overly paranoid and unrealistic.

 

 

 

The Man on the Moon thing is a bit suspicious. That said, there's nothing to say it didn't happen.

 

 

 

What's suspicious about it?

 

 

 

the fact that the flag moves, that theres no stars in any pics, and for the life of me i can't figure out how the US got on the moon before rusia even though thet had a man in space before the US. i do believe that the moon landing was real though these are just some of the arguments people use

 

 

 

Those two criticisms are two of the easier ones to answer. The flag moving was from inertia, not an atmosphere. In fact, with no atmosphere there's no resistance from the air to slow the inertia down quickly. Apparently the flag had a wire in it to hold it up as well.

 

 

 

As for the stars, apparently the sun bouncing on the surface of the moon obscures the incoming light from distant stars. [1] I'd imagine it's somewhat similar to why we can't see stars on earth during the day.

 

 

 

As for your point, ginger, I don't have an answer for that at the moment. Looks like more stuff to look into. :)

 

 

 

The general thing I find hard to believe with a conspiracy theory like the moon landing is that the American government would be so dumb as to make such blatant errors while recoding the thing in a hangar somewhere. Surely they would have had some of the best science advisers around to make sure the thing looked authentic.