A question for fellow athiests

[Astralinre]

 

thats if u believe the big bang theory

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No it doesnt :-/ light travels at approximately 186,000 miles (or 300,000,000 meters) per second. We know that the stars are millions of miles away and so you can work out how long its taken the light to reach earth and therefor an approximate "youngest possible age".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That hardly proves the age of the universe to a Christian, though. It's entirely possible (and likely) that God created the universe with most processes already in place. He could create the stars with light that already reached to earth. He could create trees or animals that were already full grown, mountains that were already formed, and so on and so forth.

[Eric2203]

the speed of light is not a constant ...its slowing down

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:?: Care to elaborate ? That's new to me...

[magekillr]

i guess

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i dont remember exactly where i ehard it from

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

heres a few places...u decide if they are valid or not

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.ldolphin.org/constc.shtml

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae509.cfm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/stories/s643460.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

google it...its all over...if u want to find a site that ud like

[Eric2203]

Thanks. Checked them out very briefly. Second link is saying it depends on what material it goes through and has to do with refraction (makes sense), but that in open space, it doesn't change (so it wouldn't affect the subject at hand in this thread).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Third link is just a discussion on the implications of the speed of light slowing down. That's based on weird readings from a quasar. And I believe this is what the first link talks about as well. Your second link is geared at how to slow light down, not at whether it's slowing down or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So umm... reading the first and third link... err it's way over my head. I did go as far as studying some of Einstein's theories when I was studying, but that was a while ago and it's not exactly something I use every day, lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, sorry for dragging this off-topic. To bring it back on-topic, the scientific explanation right now is that the speed of light is a constant, so it is valid to use it to determine how old a star is. Of course, science can be and has been wrong, and new theories emerge, as shown above, so we'll see. We have to go by what we have at the moment. But as Astralinre said above, it proves nothing to a believer anyway (I refuse to use the word Chrisitian in this thread. We're talking about a God, not just the Christian one. There are other religions out there).

[magekillr]

ty so much eric

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

even though this is prolly the only topic i will ever disagree with u on on these forums...i still like you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ur very respectful...and very openminded

[Eric2203]

ty so much eric

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

even though this is prolly the only topic i will ever disagree with u on on these forums...i still like you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ur very respectful...and very openminded

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks. :oops:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A few people on this board would disagree with you on that last statement lol. I'll be honest enough to admit that I'm opinionated too. But I try to back myself up.

[magekillr]

yeah...i know ur opinionated...but b/c u try and back urself up...it cancels the opinion out

[kido14]

 

ty so much eric

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

even though this is prolly the only topic i will ever disagree with u on on these forums...i still like you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ur very respectful...and very openminded

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks. :oops:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A few people on this board would disagree with you on that last statement lol. I'll be honest enough to admit that I'm opinionated too. But I try to back myself up.

 

 

 

(I think) You are athiest/agnostic, if I remember correctly? Or is that not right? Well most of the posts by people opposing that there is a God, I thought that most of those people were complete morons. You are one of the only one of those people who's posts I have respected. You have been making some very good posts..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is a good point about using the word Christian in this topic, but I think most people who believe in a God are Christians.. There aren't a WHOLE lot of other religions that believe in another god that really post here. Well that I know of anyways. I might be completely wrong, and probably am..

[Eric2203]

 

 

ty so much eric

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

even though this is prolly the only topic i will ever disagree with u on on these forums...i still like you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ur very respectful...and very openminded

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks. :oops:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A few people on this board would disagree with you on that last statement lol. I'll be honest enough to admit that I'm opinionated too. But I try to back myself up.

 

 

 

(I think) You are athiest/agnostic, if I remember correctly? Or is that not right? Well most of the posts by people opposing that there is a God, I thought that most of those people were complete morons. You are one of the only one of those people who's posts I have respected. You have been making some very good posts..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is a good point about using the word Christian in this topic, but I think most people who believe in a God are Christians.. There aren't a WHOLE lot of other religions that believe in another god that really post here. Well that I know of anyways. I might be completely wrong, and probably am..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am agnostic, not atheist. But it's hard to convey. All I can tell an atheist is that he can't be sure. It's a little hard to argue their other reasons, aside from saying "what if there was a God ?" which doesn't really explain anything as far as they're concerned. On the other hand, it's easier to argue reasons with believers since there are a lot more "non-believing" alternatives. The reason for that being that atheists will tend to rely on proven facts as far as science will allow them to go. Which is hard to argue against. Whereas arguing against "God did it" is relatively easy if you stay out of the meaning of God's existence on people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well all this to say that I probably come off as atheist rather than agnostic, and these are the reasons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah there are probably more Christians than any other religion on this particular board.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And thanks for the compliments. :oops: The topic is not about me though ;)

[Exarch]

If you sit on a toilet seat that is purple, there is a one in ten chance that your body will implode. You can't prove this wrong, and I can't prove it right. Perhaps it is true, and people with purple toilets have just been very lucky to get away without succumbing to that ten percent chance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, I will come to the conclusion that this statement is false. I am sure, as sure as anyone can be about anything, that purple toilet seats do not cause implosion, just as I'm sure that pigs don't grow wings if they are born in zero gravity while the planets are aligned, and that garbage disposal trucks aren't designed to be easily refitted with rocket launchers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can say nobody can be sure of the existance of god. Technically, that is true, nobody can be sure of anything. But as much as can be, I am positive there is no god.

[Death_By_Pod]

i guess

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i dont remember exactly where i ehard it from

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

heres a few places...u decide if they are valid or not

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.ldolphin.org/constc.shtml

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae509.cfm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/stories/s643460.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

google it...its all over...if u want to find a site that ud like

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The speed of light depends on the material in which it is measured but it sure as hell is not "slowing down"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.ldolphin.org/cdkconseq.html from the same site as you first post discusses the claim and pretty much invalidate it. Here are some highlights from it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Three of these Norman and Setterfield quantities found to be truly fixed constants, namely e, R, and G. These constants are either independent of time or independent of atomic processes. The other five quantities, which are related to atomic phenomena and which involve time in their units of measurement, were found to trend, with the exception of the quantum Hall resistance."

 

 

 

- They could not find any data to show Hall resistance is changing yet all other's are? What makes this time dependent variable so special to go against the trend of the other variable's changing value, an admitted contradiction?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

" If the universe had its maximum diameter at the end of creation week and had since shrunk somewhat, then the Big Bang theory of an expanding universe is incorrect."

 

 

 

- Blames the Doppler shifts on changing speed of light. Does not provide any calculations which show the large red shift can be related to such a small decrease in c (It appears the answer to one of my test questions using a Doppler shift on a star receding at the rate of 0.2c is wrong. It seems IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ve been living in a world full of lies. :roll:).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Some additional published information by Setterfield is available by mail from Australia (Reference 1), but most Setterfield's later work is awaiting final peer review for journal publication as of this writing."

 

 

 

-Not peer reviewed; hence inaccuracies may be in work. After all when do you get things correct the first time?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"However, once a radio-wave leaves the source, or a photon departs from its parent atom, energy and momentum are apparently both conserved. Also the product (hc) is a true constant which does not vary with time."

 

 

 

-Seems like if this model were true then it would violate conservation of energy since most of light we see from stars were from millions of years ago it would in fact be a time capsule for measuring the speed of light. You measure the speed of light from a star far away and compare it to the speed of light from our sun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"This is why, if the redshift signified cosmological expansion even the very atoms making up the matter in the universe would also have to expand."

 

 

 

-I don't see how he can compare the expansion of space (non-physical) to something like atoms (physical). Maybe there are such things called nuclear forces which stop the atom from expanding. Come off it he doesn't appear to know what he is talking about here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finally he talks about Fred Hoyle who is known for his "steady state" theory, which was famously disproved by Hawking. He practically aligns himself with scientists that wish to preserve the idea that the Earth is young. Which contradict all kinds of laws of physics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just to let you know the speed of light is normally measured in a vacuum; on most data sheet's the material is specified (and most give the vacuum measurement).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The second link states that light does not slow down but refraction slows down the speed of light through absorption when moving between materials. Nothing to do with the claim that light slows down over time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The third link is related to the first link but I should point out this article is 3 years old. Even if this amazing discovery was true don't you think the news would have been plastered everywhere in the 3 years since discovery. Actually this guy has been claiming light is slowing down since 1987, ample time for any peer checks and further study to verify the claim. But what's that, ask any physicist if the speed of light is a constant and they will say it sure is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The tale of the speed of light slowing down is a myth made by a Creation scientist to help prove the Universe (hence Earth) is young and the bible is true.

[magekillr]

i didnt even read the article's b4 posting...just read the titles b/c i figured they had to do with the original article i had read

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

sorry for being ignorant there :oops:

[jackalope14]

If you sit on a toilet seat that is purple, there is a one in ten chance that your body will implode. You can't prove this wrong, and I can't prove it right. Perhaps it is true, and people with purple toilets have just been very lucky to get away without succumbing to that ten percent chance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, I will come to the conclusion that this statement is false. I am sure, as sure as anyone can be about anything, that purple toilet seats do not cause implosion, just as I'm sure that pigs don't grow wings if they are born in zero gravity while the planets are aligned, and that garbage disposal trucks aren't designed to be easily refitted with rocket launchers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can say nobody can be sure of the existance of god. Technically, that is true, nobody can be sure of anything. But as much as can be, I am positive there is no god.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yea but you can at least be pretty sure that the purple toilet thing would be false because there has been no one who has imploded. But you cant be pretty sure that God doesnt exist just because it seems absurd in your mind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Btw this topic isnt about wether God exists or not, its asuming he did exists, would you worship him or now.

[Exarch]

 

If you sit on a toilet seat that is purple, there is a one in ten chance that your body will implode. You can't prove this wrong, and I can't prove it right. Perhaps it is true, and people with purple toilets have just been very lucky to get away without succumbing to that ten percent chance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, I will come to the conclusion that this statement is false. I am sure, as sure as anyone can be about anything, that purple toilet seats do not cause implosion, just as I'm sure that pigs don't grow wings if they are born in zero gravity while the planets are aligned, and that garbage disposal trucks aren't designed to be easily refitted with rocket launchers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can say nobody can be sure of the existance of god. Technically, that is true, nobody can be sure of anything. But as much as can be, I am positive there is no god.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yea but you can at least be pretty sure that the purple toilet thing would be false because there has been no one who has imploded. But you cant be pretty sure that God doesnt exist just because it seems absurd in your mind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Btw this topic isnt about wether God exists or not, its asuming he did exists, would you worship him or now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Both an imploding toilet and god are equally absurd from my perspective, I just made that post because I see so many people shouting "But you can't be sure!". As for worshipping a god if one theoretically existed, I already answered that on page one or two of this thread, no. I would never worship something that would let so much suffering exist. I'd rather sit on a purple toilet seat.

[Pur304]

Exarch you don't impress me. There are people who put up a decent reason/argument to not worship God if he was proven to exist. How is the idea of God existing so absurd? You shouldnt compare him to a fancy toilet seat :roll:

[Exarch]

What does the toilet thing have to do with weather I would worship a god or not if one existed? That was for a completely different subject, the one about people claming you can/can't know if god exists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If a god existed, I would definately not worship it. The reasons are clear, who could revere someone who lets millions of innocent people suffer needlesly? "Suffering exists because Adam sinned" etc is not a valid defense, it is a cop-out. If there was a god, they would either have to be: A. Not omnipotent, or B. Not very good. If it was A, I might be willing to forgive them.

[insane]

What does the toilet thing have to do with weather I would worship a god or not if one existed? That was for a completely different subject, the one about people claming you can/can't know if god exists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If a god existed, I would definately not worship it. The reasons are clear, who could revere someone who lets millions of innocent people suffer needlesly? "Suffering exists because Adam sinned" etc is not a valid defense, it is a cop-out. If there was a god, they would either have to be: A. Not omnipotent, or B. Not very good. If it was A, I might be willing to forgive them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Millions suffering is irrelevant to God's existence, sorry (even though you didn't outright state it, I have a pretty good feeling this is one of the reasons you don't believe). And if you're saying that it would be more loving to let people never have existed than lived a sufferable existence on Earth... then that is incredibly speculative (there's no way to know that not existing is better than a sufferable existence - seeing as everybody here has not always been non-existent).

[kido14]

I'm sick of all of the people who keep posting they wouldn't believe in God because their life isn't perfect.

[Mercifull]

I'm sick of all of the people who keep posting they wouldn't believe in God because their life isn't perfect.

 

 

 

Not a single person in this thread has given that reason for disbeliving

[lordhathor]

If I saw him, and he spoke to me, simply knowing his existence, I would worship. I've already promised him that, the day I decided to stop being a christian. I prayed for hours, half-crying, saying "All I want is a sign. If you exist, please tell me. If you do, I'll worship you forever, but until then, I have no reason to".

[Pur304]

If I saw him, and he spoke to me, simply knowing his existence, I would worship. I've already promised him that, the day I decided to stop being a christian. I prayed for hours, half-crying, saying "All I want is a sign. If you exist, please tell me. If you do, I'll worship you forever, but until then, I have no reason to".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am going through a very hard time right now myself. I have a chemical inbalance in the brain that is causing my depression and the Doctor wont even give me the medication to treat it. On top of that, there have been rumours about me which are just destroying me and peoples oppinion of me. My life seems to be falling apart.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We all have our greatly desperate time of need, and that is when we need him most. If you ask him for an answer and you have faith you will recieve one, then you will get it. Never lose faith my friend, never lose hope.

[lordhathor]

I did ask, I did have faith, and he didn't answer. I gave up 6 years of my life for him, and he wouldn't even acknowledge my existence.

 

 

 

Still though, if I know he's real at any point, I can just assume that he's got some sort of plan, or that he had some reason, as an omnipotent being, to have ignored me. I would worship and love him, of I knew he were real, but I'm not wasting another moment of my life in prayer aimed at someone who isn't even there, by all that I know.

[gehjl]

I did ask, I did have faith, and he didn't answer. I gave up 6 years of my life for him, and he wouldn't even acknowledge my existence.

 

 

 

Still though, if I know he's real at any point, I can just assume that he's got some sort of plan, or that he had some reason, as an omnipotent being, to have ignored me. I would worship and love him, of I knew he were real, but I'm not wasting another moment of my life in prayer aimed at someone who isn't even there, by all that I know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe you are talking about the Christian God. There's a verse, can't exactly remember the place or the exact wording, but it goes something along the line of "Blessed are those who believe without seeing". Sometimes He won't answer us, because what we ask is not in His will.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I saw him, and he spoke to me, simply knowing his existence, I would worship. I've already promised him that, the day I decided to stop being a christian. I prayed for hours, half-crying, saying "All I want is a sign. If you exist, please tell me. If you do, I'll worship you forever, but until then, I have no reason to"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"But until then i have no reason to"? no reason? what about Him making you? What about Him forgiving all your sins? What about that Jesus died on the cross for you? I believe there are plenty of reasons to worship Him.

[lordhathor]

 

I did ask, I did have faith, and he didn't answer. I gave up 6 years of my life for him, and he wouldn't even acknowledge my existence.

 

 

 

Still though, if I know he's real at any point, I can just assume that he's got some sort of plan, or that he had some reason, as an omnipotent being, to have ignored me. I would worship and love him, of I knew he were real, but I'm not wasting another moment of my life in prayer aimed at someone who isn't even there, by all that I know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe you are talking about the Christian God. There's a verse, can't exactly remember the place or the exact wording, but it goes something along the line of "Blessed are those who believe without seeing". Sometimes He won't answer us, because what we ask is not in His will.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Right, the christian god. I was christian for a few years.

 

 

 

As for believing without seeing... I am God... and if you question me, you'll go to hell. Look, all these other dead people went to hell, you can ask them.... but not until you're dead...

 

 

 

I believe nothing without seeing. (whether directly or indirectly.)

 

 

 

As for "because what we ask is not in His will." all I ever asked was for a reason to believe. If my not believing is part of his will, or if my disbelieving IS part of it, then so be it. I will go to hell knowing that I could have done nothing different and ever truly believed it. There would always be a question in my mind. "I've never seen, heard, or even smelled him... How do I know he's there? He's never answered my brother, and I've never seen him directly "do" anything."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I saw him, and he spoke to me, simply knowing his existence, I would worship. I've already promised him that, the day I decided to stop being a christian. I prayed for hours, half-crying, saying "All I want is a sign. If you exist, please tell me. If you do, I'll worship you forever, but until then, I have no reason to"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"But until then i have no reason to"? no reason? what about Him making you? What about Him forgiving all your sins? What about that Jesus died on the cross for you? I believe there are plenty of reasons to worship Him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My mother made me, not him, and I definitely don't worship here. Remember, I never asked to be made. I'd much rather be unmade, and would ahve done so myself a long time ago, had I not the waning hope that there may possibly be a God (thinking of the christian god) and knowing if I was wrong, I woudl go to hell.

 

 

 

Forgiving my sins? I don't need him to forgive my sins. Even if I think it was necessary for any of my "sins" to be forgiven, I am certain I don't need HIM to be the one to forgive them. If I think I need to be forgiven, I will ask it of the person whom my sin was directed toward.

 

 

 

Jesus did not die on the cross for me. If that is the case, he died for the people who lived then. We are god's forgotten or unwanted children. If he died for us, he died in vain. Jesus died at the hands of peple he couldn't fight. He (a mere man) used the whole "dying for you" thing to make them all feel guilty later on. That's my belief anyway, and if any evidence to the contrary aside from what some dilusional prisoner wrote down is presented to me, I'll happily reverse any or all of my beliefs, or at least be open to further study and research of my own.

[expertgamer]

All of you 10-20 year old Atheists hate God, we know that, you have your reasons.