A question for fellow athiests

[Mercifull]

Obviously it isn't appealing to you to believe in a God, that's the less fun part. You don't have anything to do in Heaven if you're an Atheist, an Atheist altogether denies the existence of a God, then there's no Heaven or Hell too, right?

I dont belive in Heaven or Hell either. but this topic is the "what if" scenario.

[How2PK]

 

Obviously it isn't appealing to you to believe in a God, that's the less fun part. You don't have anything to do in Heaven if you're an Atheist, an Atheist altogether denies the existence of a God, then there's no Heaven or Hell too, right?

I dont belive in Heaven or Hell either. but this topic is the "what if" scenario.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yea, and I'm talking about believing, following and worshipping. If you don't do that, what would you need to do in Heaven then?

[Mercifull]

I think the whole concept of heaven is created by scared people. Some people just cannot comprehend an end to everything. I find it hard to think about myself. That one day I just cease to be. No memories, no thoughts, no emotions. Just blank, finito, end. People are scared of this, they want to remember and feel love again, so heaven was invented.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If heaven were real whats in there, what happens. Theres no concept of time in a place like that. Is it pure worship? Thats not something I want to spend eternity doing.

[Danabis]

I think the whole concept of heaven is created by scared people. Some people just cannot comprehend an end to everything. I find it hard to think about myself. That one day I just cease to be. No memories, no thoughts, no emotions. Just blank, finito, end. People are scared of this, they want to remember and feel love again, so heaven was invented.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bingo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was talking to my mate about this the other day. He says he thinks you go into another body after you die, but with no memories of the previous life. But, wouldn't that just be the same as not existing? Since you wouldn't be aware of your existance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Woah.

[NorthernHero]

On topic:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If there would be proven that god existed, he for sure wouln't be the cristian god. He would be kinda like a programmer of things that just creates things and updates them to evolve. An ignorant god. So I wouldn't do anyting, I'd just live my live as I used to. As it wouldn't matter, the god would still be ignorat and we couldn't contact him anyways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the ongoing offtopicing for critian gods evilness:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's true. How can you say the cristian god is the love when he has just created people as his plaything for some sick pleasure? HE is who created people so that they could sin, and HE is the one whos punishing them for the sinning. That doesn't make sense, does it?

 

 

 

Also, does that make sence, that millions of people who die and have died, who have never heard of the cristian god in the asia or africa or somewhere, went to eternall torture to hell?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah the god is love and justice :lol:

[insane]

What if living a really terrible life on this world is better than never living at all? Then it would certainly explain why God allows this to happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't speak for myself since I've never experienced it, but a mere 10 years of absolute crap is worth an eternity in heaven... or according to you atheists, it's better that he never existed. *Now* who's the jerk?

[Lionheart_0]

:shock: Ill probably continue reading this cause its getting interesting, but i came in a little to late to say anything...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW when refering to god, its and it, not he or she. He or she is given to only humans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Im still thinking that the athiest are winning a alot here... why must there be so much pain and suffering?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also this is a hypothetical question. So dont go saying that the athiests that are actuly posting on topic, are anostic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit:Mods, if htis get out of controle, lock it, but not yet.

[DaN]

You can prove something exists but you cant prove it dosent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I belive God and Satan are the same. Hence my topic titled "God bless Satan!!!" (I dont know were the topic is currently)

[legolas777]

God has his reasons and purposes for everything that we don't know the answer to. so why judge and question Him when you don't know His thoughts?

[Bubsa]

 

I think the whole concept of heaven is created by scared people. Some people just cannot comprehend an end to everything. I find it hard to think about myself. That one day I just cease to be. No memories, no thoughts, no emotions. Just blank, finito, end. People are scared of this, they want to remember and feel love again, so heaven was invented.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bingo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was talking to my mate about this the other day. He says he thinks you go into another body after you die, but with no memories of the previous life. But, wouldn't that just be the same as not existing? Since you wouldn't be aware of your existance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Woah.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah I've often had convos like that. When you put it that way, one needn't be afraid of death, as they'll have no conscience or emotion to feel it.

 

 

 

But there's nothing wrong with wishing life to go on. Whether religion or folorn hope, we all have the right to believe in what we choose to believe,why we choose to pray, choose to act and choose to live.

 

 

 

There's too many things I wanna do in my life to do in this one lifetime. There's too many people I have to meet and also too little or no time in some cases.

 

 

 

But so long as I live now, I have more chance of living on through generations. God isn't a factor but yourself. Change someone's life for the better, have a family, find love and creating memories. Beautiful, irreplaceable memories beat religion anyday.

[NorthernHero]

 

 

 

but a mere 10 years of absolute crap is worth an eternity in heaven... or according to you atheists, it's better that he never existed. *Now* who's the jerk?

 

 

 

You need to take another glance at the picture merc posted. Yes its probably better that he never existed.

 

 

 

And (if the cristian god existed) nobody even knows if he went to heaven or just hell. Because he oblivously was a sinner if he didin't believe in god.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Imagine: That boy at final judgement, standing there ahead god. God then tells him, you didin't believe me to hell I shall send you. The boy replies: Who the heck are you, youre not the god I believed in, I believed in [insert some african original god here], nobody even told me about you.

 

 

 

Funny situation, I wonder what happens next.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One of the reason cristian religion makes no sense at all to me.

[legolas777]

So I guess your saying you would rather have a life time of about 80 instead of eternity?

[magekillr]

 

 

 

 

but a mere 10 years of absolute crap is worth an eternity in heaven... or according to you atheists, it's better that he never existed. *Now* who's the jerk?

 

 

 

You need to take another glance at the picture merc posted. Yes its probably better that he never existed.

 

 

 

And (if the cristian god existed) nobody even knows if he went to heaven or just hell. Because he oblivously was a sinner if he didin't believe in god.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Imagine: That boy at final judgement, standing there ahead god. God then tells him, you didin't believe me to hell I shall send you. The boy replies: Who the heck are you, youre not the god I believed in, I believed in [insert some african original god here], nobody even told me about you.

 

 

 

Funny situation, I wonder what happens next.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One of the reason cristian religion makes no sense at all to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

well...the bible also says that God judges with reason

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if this kid didnt even understand english....which im sure didnt...and was never old enough to know between right and wrong...or the christian faith...then he still wuld go to heaven

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if u lived in southamerica or some place far away...uneducated uncivilized...primitive...etc...and never heard the gospel ur entire life...then u wuld be judged with reason and most liekly go to heaven b/c u never had a chance to accept it

[yummy_kids]

If A god is real then I will let whatever happens go, i'll be okay with it. Hell seemed pretty cool in southpark, lol.

[Pete_the_Viscous]

Someone mentioned that a lot of Christian bashing goes on. I can think of some reasons for that:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Most people on these boards are from countries whose main religion is Christianity--if you were to say "Religion" to them, they would probably think "Christianity" first.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) It doesn't matter to an atheist which God they are talking about: they're all one and the same for the purposes of this discussion--obviously there are differenences, but most of them aren't important. I suppose one could argue that "MY god doesn't ask his followers to xxxx"... in which case yes, there is a difference in how people might argue the question "What would you do?".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) I imagine the poser of the question meant the Christian god anyway (see reason one). Regardless, three of the biggies are the abrahamic religions... and they're all the same god anyway--give or take a few holy books here and there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, someone mentioned the ancient Greek pantheon. That'd be fun, yes. One of the more important things about that would be that the gods weren't infallible. Another thing is that they weren't perfect, either. That's a good way around the "but there's all this suffering in the world!" business--though I think I gave my views about that when concerned with the Christian God ealier in the topic.

[gehjl]

 

 

 

 

but a mere 10 years of absolute crap is worth an eternity in heaven... or according to you atheists, it's better that he never existed. *Now* who's the jerk?

 

 

 

You need to take another glance at the picture merc posted. Yes its probably better that he never existed.

 

 

 

And (if the cristian god existed) nobody even knows if he went to heaven or just hell. Because he oblivously was a sinner if he didin't believe in god.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Imagine: That boy at final judgement, standing there ahead god. God then tells him, you didin't believe me to hell I shall send you. The boy replies: Who the heck are you, youre not the god I believed in, I believed in [insert some african original god here], nobody even told me about you.

 

 

 

Funny situation, I wonder what happens next.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One of the reason cristian religion makes no sense at all to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's 2 ways that God judges you. If you've heard the Word and denied it, He will judge you based on the Bible. If you've never heard the Word, He will judge you based on your conscience (sp?).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the baby with diseases and for the regular people with diseases/starvation, what not....We're not meant to live a perfect life. We are all born into sin. Because of Adam and Eve sinning, we live this life. It was a DECISION made by a person. God didn't force them to eat, therefore we are sinners.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the whole concept of heaven is created by scared people. Some people just cannot comprehend an end to everything. I find it hard to think about myself. That one day I just cease to be. No memories, no thoughts, no emotions. Just blank, finito, end. People are scared of this, they want to remember and feel love again, so heaven was invented.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bingo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was talking to my mate about this the other day. He says he thinks you go into another body after you die, but with no memories of the previous life. But, wouldn't that just be the same as not existing? Since you wouldn't be aware of your existance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Woah.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah I've often had convos like that. When you put it that way, one needn't be afraid of death, as they'll have no conscience or emotion to feel it.

 

 

 

But there's nothing wrong with wishing life to go on. Whether religion or folorn hope, we all have the right to believe in what we choose to believe,why we choose to pray, choose to act and choose to live.

 

 

 

There's too many things I wanna do in my life to do in this one lifetime. There's too many people I have to meet and also too little or no time in some cases.

 

 

 

But so long as I live now, I have more chance of living on through generations. God isn't a factor but yourself. Change someone's life for the better, have a family, find love and creating memories. Beautiful, irreplaceable memories beat religion anyday.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please don't see it this way because of bad information. When we go to heaven, yes we will have different bodies, but we will still have our memories. The story in the Bible with the beggar and the rich man, when they both died, the beggar still recognized the rich man. So we will still remember everything, and by that story, it also says we can see into hell from heaven, but they are galaxies apart.

[Mayjest]

Why on earth would you rather have the greek and egyptian gods? Have you studied them at all? The world would be destroyed, we'd have freaks running around the world blowing up everything, and we wouldn't be able to step foot in the ocean without an offering to poseidon! It would be completely useless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for that starving guy in the picture: I put myself in his shoes. I asked myself: If I could get into Heaven for eternity by starving for 10 years, only gaining enough food to keep me alive (and barely), suffering agonizing pain every day and night, would it be worth it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, eternity = infinite. Take away 10 years of pain and it's still infinity! Heck, make it 50 years long, throw in some torture, even bite off my genitals, it would still be worth it! That's how amazing heaven is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As far as Christianity is concerned, our job is to offer you the chance ot get into heaven - if you turn down the opportunity, it's not our fault. To those who never get offered the chance, it's unknown. Some say they burn with the rest, others say they get into heaven, but to a lesser degree than Christians (kind of an inner circle and outer circle). I'm inclined to agree with the inner/outer circle idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And for Trix/Merc/Bubsa/others, who say it's infair that those who are generally nice yet arn't Christians still don't get into heaven (and I'm sure they say it with full modesty) - I doubt very much you're as nice as you say you are. Have you ever lied? Have you ever cheated someone? Hurt someone's feelings? As far as God is concerned sin=sin=sin. Killing someone is just as bad as lying. Just because you were generally nice when compared to others doesn't mean you deserve anything extra.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Merc and Bubsa are also very vocal about the Make Poverty History Campaign. Did you know that it was originally started by just 8 different charities? Lets look at the list:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ActionAid

 

 

 

Cafod - The Catholic Agency for Overseas Development - Christian

 

 

 

Oxfam

 

 

 

Tearfund - Christian

 

 

 

PressureWorks

 

 

 

ChristianAid - Surprisingly enough, they're Muslim.... Or Christian, I can never remember which

 

 

 

Speak - Another Christian one

 

 

 

YCare - A think is Christian - works throught the YMCA, so I believe so. We'll count that as a half.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's 4.5/8 charity's that make up Make Poverty History being Christian! The majority of the money going to campaigns like this come from Christians!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Remember the Trade Justice Movement (the prelim to Make Poverty History)? Well, there the Christian majority is even larger?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, it certainly seems to me that any charity movement both depends upon and stems from Christianity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wait, Christians are being nice? But I thought Merc proved that God didn't care about poor people? Hmm, two different points, both of them can't be true! It seems that God and Christianity does care about poor people in this world!

[Bubsa]

Trix/Merc/Bubsa/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Woah wo wo wo woah, don't include me here please. The example I gave on page2 was just trying to explain what Pyro meant, I didn't necessarily share these views. I'm also (trying) not to choose which religion is right or wrong, or if all of them are, because I honestly don't know. The point I tried to make was that one needn't worry about religion or life after death or what have you, they should just concentrate on having a good time right now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Despite that, it's a very informative post. It just adds, personally, another perspective on what life is.

 

 

 

I don't ever want to sound like I'm demeaning any form of belief or religion. For one, I could be horribly wrong, they'd be right etc. And two I have no right to tell people how they should live (Just make the most of it on Earth!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Edit* I'd just like to add, regarding how you said most charities are Christian (which I don't dispute), just because that's so doesn't mean the money's coming from Christians. For instance I'm not one, however, because oxfam appeals to me with its ideologies I'll support it. There are of course Christian beliefs which I strongly support, ie the commandments, but I also share Islamic and Buddhist ideas. This does not make me a Christian or a Muslim.

[gehjl]

Friend wanted to add some things, Tip.it isn't letting him on, so i'll post it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As people, we are given the ability to choose whether or not we can or cannot believe something; it is what drives us to believe in everything from a supreme being, to truth and fiction, and even right and wrong. In reality, it is a choice left to us as humans, and if it is said that a person will go to heaven because he accepts God as truth, then I see no conflict with the so called "sins" on their hands.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The hardest choice is to believe in something which cannot be seen, heard, proven, and known in what we call fact, and thus, to give our lives and accept that is sending a message beyond any other actions. It is left to us to decide what we do with the gift of life, and yes, there are moments of pain, anguish, chaos, desperation and suffering, we have all had our share, but it is what we do with our life that matters. If we face a tough time, we can choose to complain and cower from it or fight it, there is no other choice and those who accept God are recieving more help in believing that there is something there to guide them. The punishment for those who do not accept God is that they will suffer on their own or would have to seek the support of fellow man.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What if there was no one there? What if there was no other people to care or be there to help? This is the choice we make, to believe and to guide ourselves. Our suffering is our greatest test and greastest show of our determination and will. Thus, to place it into the topic. There is a choice on what we accept, believe, and deny. If we want to accept something and believe it, we are given more choices and more options toward inner guidance. That is our reward. It does not matter if you killed someone, it does not matter if u killed more than one person, if you struggle with it and seek forgiveness, wisdom from God, then there is a point to being accepted into heaven. However, killers without remorse, without the show of sorrow, and without sympathy do not seek that true forgiveness, and that is their choice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Umbral X)

[Mayjest]

 

Trix/Merc/Bubsa/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Woah wo wo wo woah, don't include me here please. ............

 

 

 

*Edit* I'd just like to add, regarding how you said most charities are Christian (which I don't dispute), just because that's so doesn't mean the money's coming from Christians. For instance I'm not one, however, because oxfam appeals to me with its ideologies I'll support it. There are of course Christian beliefs which I strongly support, ie the commandments, but I also share Islamic and Buddhist ideas. This does not make me a Christian or a Muslim.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I included you there because of your support for make poverty history (which I also support). I think I somehow mixed what should have been two separate points into one. Sorry about that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While I believe Oxfam started as a Christian charity, in becoming more 'mainstream' they have asked for a Christian perspective less. Speak, for example, asks that people give their time, money and prayers to the cause, while Oxfam just asks for time and money - though I'm sure they won't turn down prayers. But if they do count as Christian, then the majority is even larger.

[Pur304]

If A god is real then I will let whatever happens go, i'll be okay with it. Hell seemed pretty cool in southpark, lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well you read about the real hell in the bible. Hell is actually temporary, a holding place before judgement. Before christ lived EVERYONE would go to hell, but it was split in two. Going to the story about the rich man and the beggar, they were both in hell. But the beggar was safely comforted in abrahams bossom, the good side where those who will be judged as righteous will stay for a while, but the rich man was to suffer on the other side. But when christ came and died many things changed, because we were free from sin and many practises in the old testament became invalid (except the ten commandments ofcourse). The good side of hell is vacant, and everyone righteous goes straight to heaven.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But the horrible side of hell, the side of torment still remains. Its a physical place, where you will feel immense physical pain, unlike anythign on earth. Once judgement is passed, those people sent to hell will be thrown into the lake of fire, along with hell itself. Theres a good reason why it is called the lake of fire too ( I think you atheists can understand too).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you all know what hell really is. This is all in the bible and Jesus clearly tells us that it is a physical place, not some mere state of mind.

[Eric2203]

insane and gehjl, I'll repeat my question to jakalope: then why did God give us the ability to sin ? Why weren't we created with the ability to make the right decision every time ? Would solve all the problems then. And please don't tell me it's unrealistic. It's as realistic as suggesting God created everything.

[runesmithie]

insane and gehjl, I'll repeat my question to jakalope: then why did God give us the ability to sin ? Why weren't we created with the ability to make the right decision every time ? Would solve all the problems then. And please don't tell me it's unrealistic. It's as realistic as suggesting God created everything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was Satan (a fallen angel) that made us sin.

[magekillr]

i just like to look at things like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where did we come from?

 

 

 

Why are we here?

 

 

 

Where do we go when we die?

 

 

 

What lies beyond

 

 

 

And what lay before?

 

 

 

Is anything certain in life?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They say, life is too short,

 

 

 

The here and the now

 

 

 

And youÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢re only given one shot

 

 

 

But could there be more,

 

 

 

Have I lived before,

 

 

 

Or could this be all that weÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ve got?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I die tomorrow

 

 

 

IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢d be allright

 

 

 

Because I believe

 

 

 

That after weÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢re gone

 

 

 

The spirit carries on

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I used to be frightened of dying

 

 

 

I used to think death was the end

 

 

 

But that was before

 

 

 

IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m not scared anymore

 

 

 

I know that my soul will transcend

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I may never find all the answers

 

 

 

I may never understand why

 

 

 

I may never prove

 

 

 

What I know to be true

 

 

 

But I know that I still have to try

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I die tomorrow

 

 

 

IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢d be allright

 

 

 

Because I believe

 

 

 

That after weÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢re gone

 

 

 

The spirit carries on

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Move on, be brave

 

 

 

DonÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t weep at my grave

 

 

 

Because I am no longer here

 

 

 

But please never let

 

 

 

Your memory of me disappear

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Safe in the light that surrounds me

 

 

 

Free of the fear and the pain

 

 

 

My questioning mind

 

 

 

Has helped me to find

 

 

 

The meaning in my life again

 

 

 

VictoriaÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s real

 

 

 

I finally feel

 

 

 

At peace with the girl in my dreams

 

 

 

And now that IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m here

 

 

 

ItÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s perfectly clear

 

 

 

I found out what all of this means

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I die tomorrow

 

 

 

IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢d be allright

 

 

 

Because I believe

 

 

 

That after weÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢re gone

 

 

 

The spirit carries on

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

by dream theater: the spirit carries on...not a christian band...wuldnt hurt ny of the atheists to look at things like this

[NorthernHero]

 

insane and gehjl, I'll repeat my question to jakalope: then why did God give us the ability to sin ? Why weren't we created with the ability to make the right decision every time ? Would solve all the problems then. And please don't tell me it's unrealistic. It's as realistic as suggesting God created everything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was Satan (a fallen angel) that made us sin.

 

 

 

Nope, not a valid answer. God made satan. Yes he made him good at the beginning but satan coudn't create evilness, he is just an angel,so god made it so that satan would fall and become evil.