A question for fellow athiests

[runesmithie]

 

blah blah bin laden blah blah

Maybe today wasnt the best of days to post this (see london terror attacks)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've started wondering if Godwin's Law should cover Bin Laden too....

[jackalope14]

 

 

 

 

insane and gehjl, I'll repeat my question to jakalope: then why did God give us the ability to sin ? Why weren't we created with the ability to make the right decision every time ? Would solve all the problems then. And please don't tell me it's unrealistic. It's as realistic as suggesting God created everything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was Satan (a fallen angel) that made us sin.

 

 

 

Nope, not a valid answer. God made satan. Yes he made him good at the beginning but satan coudn't create evilness, he is just an angel,so god made it so that satan would fall and become evil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Satan already turned evil by sinning towards God. God did not make him evil. By sinning against God, Satan had already fallen

 

 

 

Hmm, do I have to repeat myself? Satan didin't create himself. God made him evil by creating him the way he is, the way that he could become evil at some point and sin against god.

 

 

 

Also, i've heard there is a partin bibble that says that god foresees everything that happens in this world, so he must foreseen that if he created satan he would turn evil, right?

 

 

 

So yep, I say its 100% gods fault satan become evil. The question is only, why would god do something like that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

God created Lucifer who was and angel. Then the angel sinned against God making him evil. This is a time when there was no sin, so there was no reason for God to think that one of his angels would sin against him.

 

 

 

Also, God isnt just a magician who all he does is look into the future and use magical powers to do stuff. He is more than that, more than the human mind can ever comprehend.

[Bubsa]

 

blah blah bin laden blah blah

Maybe today wasnt the best of days to post this (see london terror attacks)

 

 

 

When was there ever day that was acceptable.

 

 

 

[bleep].

[insane]

Eric, you asked me why God didn't create us to do only right... so I explained why God did create us without that ability. Obviously I'm going to go to an authority on what God desires of us - the Bible. What would you rather I use? A chemistry textbook?

[gehjl]

 

 

 

 

insane and gehjl, I'll repeat my question to jakalope: then why did God give us the ability to sin ? Why weren't we created with the ability to make the right decision every time ? Would solve all the problems then. And please don't tell me it's unrealistic. It's as realistic as suggesting God created everything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was Satan (a fallen angel) that made us sin.

 

 

 

Nope, not a valid answer. God made satan. Yes he made him good at the beginning but satan coudn't create evilness, he is just an angel,so god made it so that satan would fall and become evil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Satan already turned evil by sinning towards God. God did not make him evil. By sinning against God, Satan had already fallen

 

 

 

Hmm, do I have to repeat myself? Satan didin't create himself. God made him evil by creating him the way he is, the way that he could become evil at some point and sin against god.

 

 

 

Also, i've heard there is a partin bibble that says that god foresees everything that happens in this world, so he must foreseen that if he created satan he would turn evil, right?

 

 

 

So yep, I say its 100% gods fault satan become evil. The question is only, why would god do something like that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

God did not make satan evil. Just because God knew that he was going to sin, doens't mean he planned it. It's like he's watching a movie he already watched. He knows what's going to happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and insane, LOL, a chemistry book.

[Eric2203]

Eric, you asked me why God didn't create us to do only right... so I explained why God did create us without that ability. Obviously I'm going to go to an authority on what God desires of us - the Bible. What would you rather I use? A chemistry textbook?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your own reasoning will suffice... as believers and non-believers alike have said in this thread, there's no proof. So no need to throw quotes at me. And sorry but your explanation didn't explain much to me...

[kido14]

Okay, where to being...

 

 

 

Eric, I think I understood where you were coming from, though a lot of your post confused me, but thats my fault I think.. Im not thinking clearly or something.. Going back to your original question, "God let us sin to begin with instead of having made us unable to sin?" Or something like that.. At first, there was no sin. Everything was perfect. Until Satan came along, and introduced temptation to sin, and Adam and Eve couldn't resist temptation, which basically caused there to be sin in everyone. Im not sure if this answers your question at all, but oh well..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to make a few comments..

 

 

 

If you don't believe in Christianity because it can't be proven by science, then answer this question for me. Think of someone you love. Can you prove that you love that person? Same thing with God. You can't scientifically prove it.

 

 

 

I think that it is evident that God is real, because just think about this. A non-Christian has a wedding. There is still mention about what the wife's duty is as stated by God, in the ceremony. Why do even non-Christians have readings from the Bible like that if they don't believe in God? The Bible is the word of God. Also, say a non-Christian's close friend or relative got hurt. Why does he/she tell other to keep them in their prayers, when they don't pray? Sometimes even non-Christians pray to a higher being even.. Im not saying all non-Christians do this. But since some do, doesn't that show you that there at least has to be some sort of higher being? And if there is a higher being, it would be God because he shows himself even in non-Christians.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gehjl, I like that quote in your sig.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And to DaN, grow up you immature moron. No one thinks you are funny because you pretend to worship Osama Bin Laden. That's just low, and I find that offensive that you would post that. I cannot believe how stupid you are.. Okay, first of all how is who ever wrote the Bible an illiterate moron? A. God basically wrote the Bible, and B. How is this person illiterate? Maybe you don't know what it means. Second of all, THE BIBLE ISN'T ABOUT THE STORIES YOU IDIOT. The stories are in there to show how God effects different peoples lives, basically..

 

 

 

Oh, and notice how you say you turning to a new god. You can't have a new god.. Well you can have a new god, but not a new God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once again, DaN, grow up.

[Torlen]

I'm really disappointed how every single atheism/creationism/any religious argument results in atheists ignorantly bashing the Christian God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where is the Christian God being bashed? I sure haven't seen it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are all arguments from ignorance... they all go something like

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"oh yeah, I think I remember something about this, I can't remember the name, or the place, or the Bible reference, or any facts, or anything, but, um yeah, God's sadistic even though I haven't studied the Bible once, nor probably touched one" [/partial sarcasm][/mostly true generalization]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Way to go, you just described not only half of the Athiests in the world, but you have also described half of the Christians. If you would open you eyes and quit being so narrow-minded like most people of the Christian faith are, you would realize that almost none of the so-called Christians in this world have any idea what they are talking about either. If you were sitting in church and you started up a serious conversation about people and their religion and why they choose to worship Him over anything else or nothing at all, most would not be able to answer your questions. I am an atheist, and I could probably cite more bible verses and tell more stories then most Christians in this world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So please, don't ignorantly bash Christians unless you've actually looked at the Bible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please quit ignorantly bashing Athiests as well. It is their choice what they choose to believe in, even if that is nothing at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you have you've probably got more knowledge about it than half the pro-atheist debaters in this forum - and that really disappoints me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if you have read it you probably have more knowledge about it then half of the pro-christain debaters in this forum, too.

[insane]

 

I'm really disappointed how every single atheism/creationism/any religious argument results in atheists ignorantly bashing the Christian God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where is the Christian God being bashed? I sure haven't seen it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are all arguments from ignorance... they all go something like

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"oh yeah, I think I remember something about this, I can't remember the name, or the place, or the Bible reference, or any facts, or anything, but, um yeah, God's sadistic even though I haven't studied the Bible once, nor probably touched one" [/partial sarcasm][/mostly true generalization]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Way to go, you just described not only half of the Athiests in the world, but you have also described half of the Christians. If you would open you eyes and quit being so narrow-minded like most people of the Christian faith are, you would realize that almost none of the so-called Christians in this world have any idea what they are talking about either. If you were sitting in church and you started up a serious conversation about people and their religion and why they choose to worship Him over anything else or nothing at all, most would not be able to answer your questions. I am an atheist, and I could probably cite more bible verses and tell more stories then most Christians in this world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So please, don't ignorantly bash Christians unless you've actually looked at the Bible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please quit ignorantly bashing Athiests as well. It is their choice what they choose to believe in, even if that is nothing at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you have you've probably got more knowledge about it than half the pro-atheist debaters in this forum - and that really disappoints me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if you have read it you probably have more knowledge about it then half of the pro-christain debaters in this forum, too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I consider God being "bashed" when people say negative things about Him which are not true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just because alot of Christians don't know what they're talking about, doesn't mean that I shouldn't point out the same trait of another group. Two wrongs don't make a right, and assuming that I'm one of the ignorant Christians isn't right either. I was making my post based on my experience with atheists in this forum. If you've read my posts I hope you'll see that I'm not completely ignorant :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I'm not ignorantly bashing atheists; I was simply asking them to stop making insults from ignorance, it may have been a little harsh, but that's because in the past being less harsh has done nothing for the debating.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I've read most of the Bible, I'm working my way through it, I'm probably 95% complete :)

[runesmithie]

 

 

 

And I've read most of the Bible, I'm working my way through it, I'm probably 95% complete :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did you read through the lineage parts? :lol:

 

 

 

Myself, I just kinda skipped around to the battles and neato stuff :oops:

[magekillr]

 

 

 

 

And I've read most of the Bible, I'm working my way through it, I'm probably 95% complete :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did you read through the lineage parts? :lol:

 

 

 

Myself, I just kinda skipped around to the battles and neato stuff :oops:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if it wasn't God's Word...id find that part pointless

[kido14]

Torlen.. I know you said 'half of the people' but that is kind of like a stereo-type just because a couple people try to know what they are talking about. A lot of Christians might not have matured enough. A younger kid can't read the Bible and get a lot out of it, so you can't blame them for trying. Also, there are the "Christians" who go to church and their outward appearance says I am a Christian, but in their heart, they really haven't honestly accepted God. Some people do this just to have the image of being a Christian, and some people's parents MAKE them go to church even if they don't want to. I know there are a lot of people at my high school that go to this "Young Life" thing, where there is a group of Christians that have basically a youth group, and they go on retreats and stuff like that.. But, I know that a lot of the people that go to this drink, have parties, and at school act NOTHING like Christians. You don't always know that the person you are talking to is really a Christian.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like I said before, a lot of people(along with myself) aren't mature (whether it be age, or maturity in their beliefs) enough to understand a lot of things that are in the Bible. Don't make fun of them for trying.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like the top of your sigs =p

[gehjl]

Gehjl, I like that quote in your sig.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks :D , just curious which 1?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Torlen.. I know you said 'half of the people' but that is kind of like a stereo-type just because a couple people try to know what they are talking about. A lot of Christians might not have matured enough. A younger kid can't read the Bible and get a lot out of it, so you can't blame them for trying. Also, there are the "Christians" who go to church and their outward appearance says I am a Christian, but in their heart, they really haven't honestly accepted God. Some people do this just to have the image of being a Christian, and some people's parents MAKE them go to church even if they don't want to. I know there are a lot of people at my high school that go to this "Young Life" thing, where there is a group of Christians that have basically a youth group, and they go on retreats and stuff like that.. But, I know that a lot of the people that go to this drink, have parties, and at school act NOTHING like Christians. You don't always know that the person you are talking to is really a Christian.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like I said before, a lot of people(along with myself) aren't mature (whether it be age, or maturity in their beliefs) enough to understand a lot of things that are in the Bible. Don't make fun of them for trying.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

very true, i believe a survey was conducted of the United States. Somewhere around 70-80% considered themselfs Christians. Of those 80% only around 20-30% considered themselfs born-again christians.

[Lionheart_0]

I like to be educated in everything, so im gonna ask, whats a born again christian?

[runesmithie]

I like to be educated in everything, so im gonna ask, whats a born again christian?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Someone's that accepted Jesus

[Blipo]

 

 

I'd ask to be annihalated, I dont want to live forever worshiping a being that not only lets so much pain and hatred run rampant in the world but causes it too. It would be like praying to Bush.

without pain how would u know joy? life would truely be just nothing but empty space, like u believe when u die, ironic in a way

Thats a cop out answer. You dont need pain to have joy. How is it fair for people to live lavish life styles in their $10m mansions while other people starve to death slow and painfully? I live my life now helping others enjoy their own lives because I know that after life theres is nothing, we must all do our best to make it as good as we can because its our only chance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

nonono u see god doesnt cause it... he LETS it happen

 

 

 

WE cause it

 

 

 

it's like that so that ppl will look forward to heaven - face it if this world was perfect, y go to heaven?

[gehjl]

 

I like to be educated in everything, so im gonna ask, whats a born again christian?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Someone's that accepted Jesus

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yup, a person who accepts Jesus as their personal God and Savior and repents of their sins.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very true blipo, if it were perfect here, there would be no use for heaven. Hence why a lot of people are looking for something more than this (life on earth).

[Eric2203]

Okay, where to being...

 

 

 

Eric, I think I understood where you were coming from, though a lot of your post confused me, but thats my fault I think.. Im not thinking clearly or something.. Going back to your original question, "God let us sin to begin with instead of having made us unable to sin?" Or something like that.. At first, there was no sin. Everything was perfect. Until Satan came along, and introduced temptation to sin, and Adam and Eve couldn't resist temptation, which basically caused there to be sin in everyone. Im not sure if this answers your question at all, but oh well..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to make a few comments..

 

 

 

If you don't believe in Christianity because it can't be proven by science, then answer this question for me. Think of someone you love. Can you prove that you love that person? Same thing with God. You can't scientifically prove it.

 

 

 

I think that it is evident that God is real, because just think about this. A non-Christian has a wedding. There is still mention about what the wife's duty is as stated by God, in the ceremony. Why do even non-Christians have readings from the Bible like that if they don't believe in God? The Bible is the word of God. Also, say a non-Christian's close friend or relative got hurt. Why does he/she tell other to keep them in their prayers, when they don't pray? Sometimes even non-Christians pray to a higher being even.. Im not saying all non-Christians do this. But since some do, doesn't that show you that there at least has to be some sort of higher being? And if there is a higher being, it would be God because he shows himself even in non-Christians.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well someone other than I posted in this thread that God created Satan, so that's open to debate...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can feel the love I have for someone. That's all the proof I need. I can't feel God (and by the way, don't refer to Christianity all the time. I could one day embrace a totally different religion, who knows ?).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know if sayings and traditions (wedding vows) show anything to be honest. They're just common sayings. I guess it might show there are more believers than non-believers, and that made the sayings common. Well to me, it's no proof, but that's me.

[DaN]

 

 

 

DaN, grow up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How ironic comming from you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you bash me for worshiping someone yet you worship god.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your the one who needs to growup and accept your not right about everything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why is it ok for god to have reasons but not binlarden?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whats the diffrence if i was to choose to worship binlarden? after all you worship god.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lots of people worship diffrent things just because its not what you like dosent automatically make you correct.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you ever read the bible? Ive personally never seen such poor grammer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In addition I suggest you acaully read the discussion rather than just scroll thru and stop when you see photos.

[Eric2203]

You know what, DaN ? I'm not exactly on the side of the believers in this thread, but frankly, I agree with them: you're an idiot. Even atheists have a clue as to what is right and wrong. Choosing Bin-Laden is an extremely stupid example, particularly after yesterday's events. You consider him good perhaps ? The sad thing is, you had some sort of a point, but that totally ruined it. At least choose a viable alternative to their God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As to bad grammar in the Bible... shows your ignorance even more. And by the way, it's grammar, not grammer.

[KnightLite]

You know what, DaN ? I'm not exactly on the side of the believers in this thread, but frankly, I agree with them: you're an idiot. Even atheists have a clue as to what is right and wrong. Choosing Bin-Laden is an extremely stupid example, particularly after yesterday's events. You consider him good perhaps ? The sad thing is, you had some sort of a point, but that totally ruined it. At least choose a viable alternative to their God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As to bad grammar in the Bible... shows your ignorance even more. And by the way, it's grammar, not grammer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dan, you've made one to many enemies with the idiotic things u've said on these forums..

[____]

That's not going to stop him.

[Bubsa]

I don't know about you, DaN, but there's something about being the world's most wanted man and being responsible for the death of millions through terrorism and causing chaos on the modern world, that doesn't make me want to worship Bin Laden.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Crazy, I know...

[DaN]

I cant belive you people are so incredibly stupid you think I support someone who killed two of my friends and almost took my leg....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ill try to explain much slllooower so you dips might get it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

God has his reasons and purposes for everything that we don't know the answer to. so why judge and question Him when you don't know His thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People judge binlarden yet its wrong for us to judge god because he has reasons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bin larden had reason to blowup the trade center whether you agree with his reason or not a reason is still there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dont agree with gods reasons for doing things and you god lovers tell me ive no right to question him?!?!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dont know how I can put it any more black and white.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As to bad grammar in the Bible... shows your ignorance even more. And by the way, it's grammar, not grammer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats spelling their IS a diffrence, also im not writing a novel so editing isnt a priority. Dont belive me about the bad grammer I suggest you read the Bible.

[gehjl]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As to bad grammar in the Bible... shows your ignorance even more. And by the way, it's grammar, not grammer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats spelling their IS a diffrence, also im not writing a novel so editing isnt a priority. Dont belive me about the bad grammer I suggest you read the Bible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are the words "thy" "ye" "cometh" confusing you? don't worry, they're real words.