Twilight.

[aquariusman]

My original argument was that Twilight has no major element that makes it a good book; no plot, theme, character, style or setting. We side tracked a little, but I still hold true to my argument.

 

 

 

Also, my point about Edward being both over protective and a danger to Bella is that his being over protective is futile, and in fact counter-productive to his intentions. I had explicitly stated that his actions were counter productive. Although, re-reading my post I can see that this isn't as clear as I hoped for.

[raven_gaurd0]

Yes, Edward is over-protective and he is also a danger to Bella at all times. Well, before she became a vampire anyways.

 

Oh hell, the continuation of another vampiric line. Fan-[bleep]ing-fantastic. I suppose that she caught vampire-AIDS and turned into one during one of hers and Edwards HAWT-HAWT-HAWT Vampire Sex! scenes.

 

 

 

 

Also, you can't stop fans being obsessed over something. I'm sure you have, or have been obsessed over something before, (even if you haven't realized it) that has pissed people off extremely and they've wanted you to go die in a hole. You might've thought whatever it was, is/was awesome etc, but others might've thought you're r3tarded and need help. Just like you think about the people who enjoy Twilight and call it a piece of literature.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh no. Accusing us of hypocrisy, while still coupling the word 'Twilight' and 'literature' in the same sentence. Look, sweetheart, I can understand that you like it, and I will not bash you for liking it, but those books were not legitimate literature. Just because it's writing that people read doesn't make it literature. I don't give a flying [bleep] if the entire damn world thinks that Twilight is the most fantabulous piece of [cabbage] ever to come out of an editor's [wagon], that will never change the fact that it is a mere entertainment-based fable. It is not, and never will be, a piece of literature worthy of note beyond it's wildly fanatical fanbase.

[aquariusman]

Put out those flames before you start a fire. I really don't see how this can be continued any further without either flaming, or someone contesting that there is a plot to Twilight.

[Nom]

Yes, Edward is over-protective and he is also a danger to Bella at all times. Well, before she became a vampire anyways.

 

Oh hell, the continuation of another vampiric line. Fan-[bleep]-fantastic. I suppose that she caught vampire-AIDS and turned into one during one of hers and Edwards HAWT-HAWT-HAWT Vampire Sex! scenes.

 

 

 

Actually she becomes an immortal vampire and gets married before they have their first night of bruising sex. The Christian values are upheld! Then she has a vampire baby that will grow to maturity in seven years and be the consolation prize for Jacob.

 

 

 

Agreed with aquariusman, this should be toned down a little in general. I confess my irritation has gotten the better of me a few times, but I still hope that there will be a coherent argument that doesn't boil down to not-so-slick dodges or general flames.

 

 

 

I'm seeing the movie tomorrow, so you can be sure I'll have something to say about that.

[Dreamtongirl]

aquariusman, there is actually a plot, it's just nearer to the end of the book. And as for characters, there are some very good ones. It's just that you don't find them worthy of writing 4 books about. So, we getcha' - that's your opinion. But the book does have all of those things - whether you like them or not.

 

 

 

"Look, sweetheart, I can understand that you like it, and I will not bash you for liking it, but those books were not legitimate literature. Just because it's writing that people read doesn't make it literature. I don't give a flying [bleep] if the entire damn world thinks that Twilight is the most fantabulous piece of [cabbage] ever to come out of an editor's [wagon], that will never change the fact that it is a mere entertainment-based fable. It is not, and never will be, a piece of literature worthy of note beyond it's wildly fanatical fanbase."

 

 

 

Don't you sweetheart me, sweetheart yourself, nub.

 

Yes, i do like it. Hence why i'm debating all this stuff. That really is a matter of opinion, you know. All the millions of fans will certainly call it literature, even if you may not. What's something you're obsessed over? I'm sure that people would disagree with you on that.

[Dreamtongirl]

"Actually she becomes an immortal vampire and gets married before they have their first night of bruising sex."

 

 

 

NOM, no she doesn't.. She gets married before they have "bruising sex", yes. But she doesn't become a vampire before they do. How could she get bruises if she was one, genius. :thumbdown:

[aquariusman]

aquariusman, there is actually a plot, it's just nearer to the end of the book. And as for characters, there are some very good ones. It's just that you don't find them worthy of writing 4 books about. So, we getcha' - that's your opinion. But the book does have all of those things - whether you like them or not.

 

 

 

 

I need examples of these good characters you claim exist, because in the first book, which should be the book that creates the bases for these good characters, the characters are either ignored by Bella, or in the case of Bella and Edward, quite typical of a teen-fiction book. Angst-filled teenage girl meets wonderboy, who has a deep, dark secret. That story is repeated often in teen-fiction (Although really it should be teen-girl-fiction). So that is essentially Twilight's plot, and total character development, in one sentence, while the book is 400 pages long. Also, the descriptions of scenery are average, I cannot see any real theme built into the book, and the only literary style I saw SM use was purple prose and useless, lengthy descriptions of actions and objects that did not contribute to any other aforementioned elements.

 

 

 

On top of that, every plot usually gets more exciting near the end, because that is when the climax and a turning point come. However, there was very little that contributed to the plot overall during the rest of the book.

[Nom]

Forgive me if I mix up the sequence of some of the events in that train wreck that was Breaking Dawn. Even the fans were unhappy with that book.

 

 

 

She couldn't have gotten bruises if she was a vampire . . . What an interesting thing to say. That means SM included the rough abusive sex with the goal of giving Bella physical injury (done at the hands of Edward, so really aquariusman has a pretty solid argument), and also highlights the utter Sue-ness of the vampires and, of course, Bella once she inevitably becomes one. How can anyone regard these books as anything but screwed up?

 

 

 

Regarding aquariusman's points . . .

 

 

 

Don't mean to steal an argument, but you've trespassed on the domain of a writer. First, the plot statement. There is no plot whatsoever for the great majority of the book, and yes, there is a bad damsel-in-distress one tacked on at the VERY end as if to justify writing all those pages of sexual fantasy slop. How you can say that the plot is 'toward the end of the book' in near the same breath as saying that this qualifies as a piece of literature is beyond me. It fails the test already by not having any sort of coherent reason to exist other than to indulge in the fantasies of the writer and unfortunately a crapload of teenage girls.

 

 

 

Then, the characters. Bella Swan: the very NAME screams Mary-Sue before we even get to the fact that she has no character flaws whatsoever, is showered with attention from every damn boy in the school despite being 'plain', and is purposely juxtaposed with her 'immature' friends in order to seem above them. To head off the argument, no clumsiness is not a flaw. It is portrayed as endearing and is entirely physical in any case.

 

 

 

Edward Cullen: He's a 100-odd year-old vampire, refrains from feeding on humans, is incredibly sexy, sparkles in sunlight, is hot, has superhuman speed and strength, is hot, is adorably overprotective, and is hot. Doesn't even deserve to be called a character, unless you interpret him as a total creep and not the pinnacle of awesome boyfriend-ness that he's supposed to be.

 

 

 

And there are no other characters. Well, maybe Jacob, and he's arguably the only decent one. The rest are so negligible they could be cut completely and not change anything one bit

 

 

 

I'm going to stop this here as there are too many distraction at the moment.

[Dreamtongirl]

Ah, gee. This is getting old. Arguing the same points over again is tedious. Yes, i like Twilight. I think the characters are good, and the same with the plot and scene/settings. No, you think the book sucks crap and doesn't deserve to be called a piece of literature, despite it being a bestseller.

 

 

 

Mmkay, case closed. (Edward waited 90 years, btw.)

[anonymous1234]

Ah, gee. This is getting old. Arguing the same points over again is tedious. Yes, i like Twilight. I think the characters are good, and the same with the plot and scene/settings. No, you think the book sucks crap and doesn't deserve to be called a piece of literature, despite it being a bestseller.

 

 

 

Mmkay, case closed. (Edward waited 90 years, btw.)

 

I honestly think they were making good progress with the arguments. What did Edward wait for for 90 years?

[ElkNight]

Oh my god, I didnt realize I live a few hours away from where this book is set. :wall: #-o

[Dreamtongirl]

He waited 90 years for someone, Which would be Bella.

 

 

 

Forreals? You live near Forks?

[ElkNight]

Yup. Pretty close at least.

[anonymous1234]

He waited 90 years for someone, Which would be Bella.

 

 

 

Forreals? You live near Forks?

 

 

 

So he didn't date anybody for 90 years..?? :shock:

[ElkNight]

He waited 90 years for someone, Which would be Bella.

 

 

 

Forreals? You live near Forks?

 

 

 

So he didn't date anybody for 90 years..?? :shock:

 

Hrmm that reminds me of something.

 

[hide=][/hide]

[Dreamtongirl]

Wow, cool. I think.

 

 

 

Nope, he didn't find anyone until Bella came along.

[aquariusman]

Ah, gee. This is getting old. Arguing the same points over again is tedious. Yes, i like Twilight. I think the characters are good, and the same with the plot and scene/settings. No, you think the book sucks crap and doesn't deserve to be called a piece of literature, despite it being a bestseller.

 

 

 

Mmkay, case closed. (Edward waited 90 years, btw.)

 

 

 

I'm still waiting for you to explain to me why you think said parts of the book are good.

 

 

 

Also, being a best seller doesn't mean a book is a best seller. You've even agreed, with classics as an example, that popularity or reputation does not guarantee quality.

 

 

 

Abstinence doesn't really mean much. If he is immortal or has a ridiculously long life span, 90 years to him would be at most a decade to us.

[Flyingjj]

 

On topic: I'm actually quite intrigued by the popularity of these books/movie. I'm probably going to read them over Christmas break, no matter how horrible some people consider them to be. I love books, I'm pretty sure I'll find these ones to be decent.

 

Okay, so I read the first book this weekend, so I can give a little bit more of an opinion now.

 

The book as a whole was alright. It was easy enough to read, and I liked it enough to read it in only about three days, reading off and on. I have to admit character development was not a strength of this book. You would think, as he's a main character, we'd get a bit more about Edward than that he likes to showoff and is amazingly beautiful. There is that aspect of him being tormented by himself as a monster, but really, there is not much else.

 

 

 

So the book was okay, but not the greatest I've read. I really don't know. The book wasn't horrible, and they definitely pass the time. I don't know if they deserve as much popularity as they get, but I'll still read the rest, I'm a sucker for love stories :P .

[Nom]

Ah, gee. This is getting old. Arguing the same points over again is tedious. Yes, i like Twilight. I think the characters are good, and the same with the plot and scene/settings. No, you think the book sucks crap and doesn't deserve to be called a piece of literature, despite it being a bestseller.

 

 

 

Mmkay, case closed. (Edward waited 90 years, btw.)

 

 

 

I'm still waiting for you to explain to me why you think said parts of the book are good.

 

 

 

Agreed, you can't say the argument has gotten tedious when every post has brought something more or less new and you haven't said anything in direct refute to the vast majority of it. And being a bestseller doesn't mean crap anymore, if it ever did.

 

 

 

Anyway, just got back from seeing the movie. Overall I can't say it was horrible, but it was still bad. It was a great improvement over the book in two areas:

 

 

 

1. The plot was introduced earlier and made it seem less like a meandering pseudo-suspense and then never-ending cuddle scene. If only slightly less.

 

 

 

2. Edward was actually enjoyable, because Pattinson portrayed him as a completely socially awkward depressive instead of God with sparkles. I agree with the A-S article here, it's something Johnny Depp would do. I swear he almost laughed when he said the "I like to watch you sleep" line.

 

 

 

But then there's the bad . . .

 

 

 

- SFX: Really bad. Speeding up the camera for the super speed? Is this a joke?

 

- SPARKLES: They kept them in. Blah. "This . . . is . . . theskinuvaKILLER!" I had to suppress a laugh and it came out as a weird snort.

 

- If you couldn't see it in the book, it's extremely obvious in the movie: Bella's friends are absolutely negligible. They disappear totally after Bella gets going with Edward and are reduced to a cameo or two apiece for the rest of the film.

 

- Acting: With the exception of Pattinson, most of it was varying degrees from meh to awful.

 

- The theater going experience. Not nearly as bad as I expected, but there were still a bunch of eighth grade girls there that shreiked every time a slightly sexual joke was made. I swear the row in front of me [bleep]ing exploded when Bella's mom was like "Are you being safe?" Plus there was a constant undertone of giggles that started zoning me out, much like white noise.

 

- Still no point whatsoever in the whole thing

 

 

 

But we went to get ice cream afterwards so I feel better now.

[anonymous1234]

Ah, gee. This is getting old. Arguing the same points over again is tedious. Yes, i like Twilight. I think the characters are good, and the same with the plot and scene/settings. No, you think the book sucks crap and doesn't deserve to be called a piece of literature, despite it being a bestseller.

 

 

 

Mmkay, case closed. (Edward waited 90 years, btw.)

 

 

 

I'm still waiting for you to explain to me why you think said parts of the book are good.

 

 

 

Agreed, you can't say the argument has gotten tedious when every post has brought something more or less new and you haven't said anything in direct refute to the vast majority of it. And being a bestseller doesn't mean crap anymore, if it ever did.

 

 

 

Anyway, just got back from seeing the movie. Overall I can't say it was horrible, but it was still bad. It was a great improvement over the book in two areas:

 

 

 

1. The plot was introduced earlier and made it seem less like a meandering pseudo-suspense and then never-ending cuddle scene. If only slightly less.

 

 

 

2. Edward was actually enjoyable, because Pattinson portrayed him as a completely socially awkward depressive instead of God with sparkles. I agree with the A-S article here, it's something Johnny Depp would do. I swear he almost laughed when he said the "I like to watch you sleep" line.

 

 

 

But then there's the bad . . .

 

 

 

- SFX: Really bad. Speeding up the camera for the super speed? Is this a joke?

 

- SPARKLES: They kept them in. Blah. "This . . . is . . . theskinuvaKILLER!" I had to suppress a laugh and it came out as a weird snort.

 

- If you couldn't see it in the book, it's extremely obvious in the movie: Bella's friends are absolutely negligible. They disappear totally after Bella gets going with Edward and are reduced to a cameo or two apiece for the rest of the film.

 

- Acting: With the exception of Pattinson, most of it was varying degrees from meh to awful.

 

- The theater going experience. Not nearly as bad as I expected, but there were still a bunch of eighth grade girls there that shreiked every time a slightly sexual joke was made. I swear the row in front of me [bleep] exploded when Bella's mom was like "Are you being safe?" Plus there was a constant undertone of giggles that started zoning me out, much like white noise.

 

- Still no point whatsoever in the whole thing

 

 

 

But we went to get ice cream afterwards so I feel better now.

 

If you think it was bad with Twilight, you must not have gone to see Transformers at the theaters.

[Faux]

If you think it was bad with Twilight, you must not have gone to see Transformers at the theaters.

 

 

 

How long was that reach :lol: Lemme guess because they both started with T? Get the [bleep] out

[ElkNight]

If you think it was bad with Twilight, you must not have gone to see Transformers at the theaters.

 

 

 

How long was that reach :lol: Lemme guess because they both started with T? Get the [bleep] out

 

Uhhh... He's right, because he was only talking about the sexual jokes. Sorry, dunno if you realized.

[Dreamtongirl]

Meh, gotta go on camp. I'll argue later.

 

 

 

- I liked Transformers. D:

[lonellama]

I saw it yesterday with my girlfriend (who is obsessed with the series), and i have to admit it wasn't too bad. Seeing as my expectations were having to endure some sappy chick-flick, i was surprised to see this movie had some cool scenes in it (like the baseball one). I was interested in it, despite some of the corny editing and special effects, but that stuff doesn't bother me too bad.

 

 

 

Apparently i look a lot like Edward in this movie, which is funny because my name is Edward in real life. I see a slight resemblance but nothing that noticeable, but everyday people who i don't even know stop me and tell me I look like him :shock: I mean i guess this isn't a bad thing.. It brings my a little bit closer to the expectations my girlfriend now has for me :wall:

[aquariusman]

Or it could raise her expectations altogether, seeing as how now that you are the reincarnation of Edward Cullen, you must be a the dream guy of every girl.