Woodcutting Logic

[slayernm613]

I've been woodcutting, and there's one thing that blaringly irritates me. In my experience cutting yews in edge, people will occasionally diverge from the group cutting one yew and go cut the other. This is an example of faulty logics. The calculations of the perpetrator would be as such: when i share a tree, it falls down faster, so i should go to a different tree which will fall down slower.

 

This, my friends, is a fallacy. When woodcutting, presumably, the game will occasionally "roll" to see if you get a log, with higher chances at higher levels. This is completely independent from when the tree falls down, that's another roll entirely. It follows, that no matter which tree you cut down, you'll get the same amount of logs, because it's all based on rolls. People can get logs the same time you do, so you see that it's not exclusive when you roll a log. That means that within the timespan of the group's tree, the breakaway perpetrator in question would receive just as much wood. The only result of switching trees is having two knocked down at once, leaving everyone standing around waiting, because of one person's selfish misreasoning.

 

Now, you might ask that him being on the group's tree will knock it down faster. It's a valid question, but in the end, the downtime while having two trees down instead of flowing seamlessly from one to the next will make it that everyone gets less in a specific timespan.

 

 

 

 

 

Umm, i guess in order to make a conversation, you as a reader should either post other examples of faulty logics or argue with my argument here.

[Nenga]

It's all your way of thinking. A real good example is the funorb game dungeon assault. It's supposed to be dice rolls but it's mainly luck, which you are on the short side of the stick most of the time. You have a change of losing to something with the same stats as your monster about 90% of the time I personally like to fish alone and have my own spot, it's just the type of person I am. As for if it gets chopped down faster in a large group or you get less logs, you can easily prove that.

 

 

 

Say you have 99 woodcutting, cutting a magic tree. Every time you get 1 log you have a chance to cut the tree down. Now another person who is 99 woodcutting comes along and cuts your tree with the same type of axe. All the sudden that 1:1 ratio becomes 1:2, with him figured in you have half the chance of getting logs because the game has to split the output from the tree, while it doubles the chances it is cut down. That is why people cut their own trees.

[Smackapotato]

Technically it's not so much faulty logic as it is poor form. Having your own tree will get you more logs per tree then if you shared(not proven, but most likely) but the fact that you go off on your own and cut down the second tree as well as the first makes it annoying when both are down and then no-one is doing anything.

 

 

 

So I'm against switching trees when there are other people on one tree, but I don't think it's really that illogical.

[AlexDT]

Why is having both trees down at the same time a problem? If they respawn at a set time, and players always get logs at the same rate regardless of how many people are on the one tree, surely it would have no effect on logs per hour? Assuming that each tree starts with the same number of logs (I know this is not true, but for the sake of hourly averages, assume that it is), the tree that the one person has moved off to would only fall slightly earlier than it would have if everyone moved to it at the same time. This would be countered by the extended life of the original tree, since one person has moved away from it. I don't see how having both down will cause people to get "less in a specific timespan", unless that timespan is a couple of minutes.

 

 

 

In fact, I don't see any disadvantage whatsoever of moving to another tree. If anything you'll have gained a second or so, because you won't be waiting there for those seconds when the original tree falls.

[Bombing_7000]

I might reply to this wrongly. But when I woodcut at Edgeville, I usually just stand at a tree until it runs out of logs. However, if like 2 people come along and I see that I'm getting 0 log for like 2 minutes+, I will just go to another tree. It's just how you think. And that is how I think.

 

 

 

~Bomb

[Troacctid]

Say you have 99 woodcutting, cutting a magic tree. Every time you get 1 log you have a chance to cut the tree down. Now another person who is 99 woodcutting comes along and cuts your tree with the same type of axe. All the sudden that 1:1 ratio becomes 1:2, with him figured in you have half the chance of getting logs because the game has to split the output from the tree, while it doubles the chances it is cut down. That is why people cut their own trees.

 

It doesn't matter when the tree falls down as long as there's always a tree to chop. If you spend the maximum time possible chopping any tree, then you can still get the same amount of logs per hour. The logs per tree is unimportant. However, if you're spending a lot of time with no trees at all to chop, then that will reduce your logs per hour.

 

 

 

In other words, it makes no difference how many logs you get from one tree. All that matters is that you can keep getting logs the whole time without needing to wait for a respawn.

 

 

 

So yeah, the people who refuse to chop the same tree as another person are hurting everyone chopping in that area. If you're one of those people, I suggest you change your habits and work together with the other woodcutters. If you insist on chopping alone, then you should hop worlds.

[stormveritas]

The fault in logic is there, but I look at the fault a little differently.

 

 

 

The two of you will both cut at the same rate, and likely get logs at the same rate. The only difference is that you get less logs per tree.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, if you are both cutting different trees, the perpetrator is failing to account for the tree regrowth time. While if you're fishing the new spots pop up instantaneously, such is not the case for woodcutting. If you both share the same tree woodcutting, presumably there will always be another tree ready, since as soon as you knock one over and switch trees, you give the second one time to regrow.

 

 

 

There's the issue; now the "perp" has cost you both, since you'll likely both have significant time where there is no tree available to cut.

[diib]

This, my friends, is a fallacy. When woodcutting, presumably, the game will occasionally "roll" to see if you get a log, with higher chances at higher levels. This is completely independent from when the tree falls down, that's another roll entirely.

 

This could be true. However, these people think that there is a set amount of logs contained in a tree. This amount might be determined randomly when the tree spawns, with higher level trees having a higher average amount of logs.

 

 

 

Distinguishing between these possibilities is hard. If slayernm613 is correct, and there is a certain constant probability that the tree will disappear when a log is cut (this probability being 1 for normal trees and less than 1 for better trees), the amount of logs you get from cutting a high-level tree would have a poisson distribution.

 

If the other option is correct, the he amount of logs you get from cutting a high-level tree would have a uniform distribution.

[Nenga]

Say you have 99 woodcutting, cutting a magic tree. Every time you get 1 log you have a chance to cut the tree down. Now another person who is 99 woodcutting comes along and cuts your tree with the same type of axe. All the sudden that 1:1 ratio becomes 1:2, with him figured in you have half the chance of getting logs because the game has to split the output from the tree, while it doubles the chances it is cut down. That is why people cut their own trees.

 

It doesn't matter when the tree falls down as long as there's always a tree to chop. If you spend the maximum time possible chopping any tree, then you can still get the same amount of logs per hour. The logs per tree is unimportant. However, if you're spending a lot of time with no trees at all to chop, then that will reduce your logs per hour.

 

 

 

In other words, it makes no difference how many logs you get from one tree. All that matters is that you can keep getting logs the whole time without needing to wait for a respawn.

 

 

 

So yeah, the people who refuse to chop the same tree as another person are hurting everyone chopping in that area. If you're one of those people, I suggest you change your habits and work together with the other woodcutters. If you insist on chopping alone, then you should hop worlds.

Two things: 1. I can play and chop/fish/mine/, however I want. 2. He was merely asking why people would switch trees, so I gave him some basic math explaining why. Sure the trees respawn but as opposed to what I said, say you and this guy are at the same magic tree, but this time you are level 75 with a rune axe, and he is level 99 with a dragon axe. Now the game takes away the chances of you getting a log to compensate for his higher level.

 

 

 

How fast it falls and respawns is a whole different discussion in itself. Then you are asking yourself what you stand to gain from switching trees, and is it right for yourself to possibly make everyone else wait if both trees fall at once.

[mmmcannibalism]

came in preparing to point out that it doesnt matter how you cut but found its true when i worked math

 

 

 

lets say 4 people are cutting 4 trees and it takes 1 person a minute to cut a tree

 

 

 

lets also say that each tree takes 1 min to respawn

 

 

 

if all 4 people cut 1 tree then it will take a minute to cut all 4 trees, but as they final tree is cut 45 seconds will have passed meaning the first tree will spawn in 15 seconds

 

 

 

if all 4 people cut seperately then all 4 trees will fall after 1 minute just like if they cut together; however, it will take a full minute until a tree respawns

 

 

 

with the first scenario 4/5ths of your time is spent woodcutting and 1/5th waiting for a respawn

 

 

 

with the second you spend equal parts woodcutting and waiting so less logs per hour

[Flamewhisker]

Well when i'm cutting, I usually cut yews near catherby, there are almost always tons of people there and I find that if i go out of my way to get the tree thats way seperated from the clump of yews that i get more logs. I have almost cut an whole inventory on that same tree when i'm by my self, tho when i'm with a group on another tree, i will get like 5...

[BBC3]

ive always thought of it like this, not sure if its true as i havnt woodcutted for 3-4 years (i never woodcut).

 

 

 

each tree has a certain number of logs in it say its 20, and when it respawns it might start at 5 and slowly go up to 20, if you start cutting it when it respawns it will go down, if you give it time it will have more logs in it, if two people are at the tree, you can take the logs from it knowing theres 20 logs in the tree, that guy probably moved to the other tree knowing that it has been up long enough to give him logs.

[mmmcannibalism]

Well when i'm cutting, I usually cut yews near catherby, there are almost always tons of people there and I find that if i go out of my way to get the tree thats way seperated from the clump of yews that i get more logs. I have almost cut an whole inventory on that same tree when i'm by my self, tho when i'm with a group on another tree, i will get like 5...

 

 

 

well thats a different situation because you are cutting something that noone else is touching

 

 

 

that is notable thought that sometimes out of the way cutting could be better

[Michael]

When I wc'd I'd go for trees by myself as there would be less people to annoy me.

[slayernm613]

Say you have 99 woodcutting, cutting a magic tree. Every time you get 1 log you have a chance to cut the tree down. Now another person who is 99 woodcutting comes along and cuts your tree with the same type of axe. All the sudden that 1:1 ratio becomes 1:2, with him figured in you have half the chance of getting logs because the game has to split the output from the tree, while it doubles the chances it is cut down. That is why people cut their own trees.

 

It doesn't matter when the tree falls down as long as there's always a tree to chop. If you spend the maximum time possible chopping any tree, then you can still get the same amount of logs per hour. The logs per tree is unimportant. However, if you're spending a lot of time with no trees at all to chop, then that will reduce your logs per hour.

 

 

 

In other words, it makes no difference how many logs you get from one tree. All that matters is that you can keep getting logs the whole time without needing to wait for a respawn.

 

 

 

So yeah, the people who refuse to chop the same tree as another person are hurting everyone chopping in that area. If you're one of those people, I suggest you change your habits and work together with the other woodcutters. If you insist on chopping alone, then you should hop worlds.

Two things: 1. I can play and chop/fish/mine/, however I want. 2. He was merely asking why people would switch trees, so I gave him some basic math explaining why. Sure the trees respawn but as opposed to what I said, say you and this guy are at the same magic tree, but this time you are level 75 with a rune axe, and he is level 99 with a dragon axe. Now the game takes away the chances of you getting a log to compensate for his higher level.

 

 

 

How fast it falls and respawns is a whole different discussion in itself. Then you are asking yourself what you stand to gain from switching trees, and is it right for yourself to possibly make everyone else wait if both trees fall at once.

 

 

 

One guy with 99 wc + a dragon axe does not affect the amount of logs you get in any way, it only affects how much quicker this single tree falls down. It seems like we're arguing in this point: whether it's possible to get a log when someone else does. There are two ways that the game could calculate who gets a log: it could 1) roll on the server and send out to the winner of the log that they get it and to the loser that they don't, or it could 2) roll on each user's computer and send to the server when a log is received. If it were way 1, then there would be a possibility that the reception of a log is exclusive, because the server decides who gets each log, but if it were way 2, it would only make sense that the reception is not exclusive (more than 1 person can win each log), since the server has no business calculating log retrieval rolls. As a programmer, way 2 makes more sense because it distributes the processing use more and will use less bandwidth server-side. Basically, that's why i don't think log getting is exclusive.

[Rollyboy]

I agree with the OP. It was especially tiresome when I was cutting magic trees. I live in a timezone when the average population of worlds are low (200 -300), and when all magic trees are down at the same time you would have to wait 5 - 7 minutes. Waiting that long always seemed forever. Forever-ever-ever forever-ever-ever forever.

 

 

 

Some posters have indicated that the tree has a set amount of logs. But I've always thought that it depended on the individual(s). For example;

 

 

 

If four players (A, B, C and D) were to cut a yew tree, the following individuals would randomly be assigned a number of logs that could be obtained. Such that;

 

 

 

A: gets 7 logs

 

B: gets 22 logs

 

C: gets 1 logs

 

D: gets 10 logs

 

 

 

Since player C is only assigned one log, the tree would "fall" after that. Therefore since there are more players, the probability of one player being assigned with obtaining less logs can be directly related to the probability of how fast the tree falls. In other words, the more people cutting one tree the more likely it will fall.

 

 

 

This can also explain why an individual is more likely to obtain more logs by themselves. If you were to take players A, C and D out - player B would obtain more logs. But since player A, C and D are included the probability of B obtaining more logs lowers.

 

 

 

This is just my guess of how it works, unless it's stated somewhere that trees do have a set amount of logs.

[Nenga]

Say you have 99 woodcutting, cutting a magic tree. Every time you get 1 log you have a chance to cut the tree down. Now another person who is 99 woodcutting comes along and cuts your tree with the same type of axe. All the sudden that 1:1 ratio becomes 1:2, with him figured in you have half the chance of getting logs because the game has to split the output from the tree, while it doubles the chances it is cut down. That is why people cut their own trees.

 

It doesn't matter when the tree falls down as long as there's always a tree to chop. If you spend the maximum time possible chopping any tree, then you can still get the same amount of logs per hour. The logs per tree is unimportant. However, if you're spending a lot of time with no trees at all to chop, then that will reduce your logs per hour.

 

 

 

In other words, it makes no difference how many logs you get from one tree. All that matters is that you can keep getting logs the whole time without needing to wait for a respawn.

 

 

 

So yeah, the people who refuse to chop the same tree as another person are hurting everyone chopping in that area. If you're one of those people, I suggest you change your habits and work together with the other woodcutters. If you insist on chopping alone, then you should hop worlds.

Two things: 1. I can play and chop/fish/mine/, however I want. 2. He was merely asking why people would switch trees, so I gave him some basic math explaining why. Sure the trees respawn but as opposed to what I said, say you and this guy are at the same magic tree, but this time you are level 75 with a rune axe, and he is level 99 with a dragon axe. Now the game takes away the chances of you getting a log to compensate for his higher level.

 

 

 

How fast it falls and respawns is a whole different discussion in itself. Then you are asking yourself what you stand to gain from switching trees, and is it right for yourself to possibly make everyone else wait if both trees fall at once.

 

 

 

One guy with 99 wc + a dragon axe does not affect the amount of logs you get in any way, it only affects how much quicker this single tree falls down. It seems like we're arguing in this point: whether it's possible to get a log when someone else does. There are two ways that the game could calculate who gets a log: it could 1) roll on the server and send out to the winner of the log that they get it and to the loser that they don't, or it could 2) roll on each user's computer and send to the server when a log is received. If it were way 1, then there would be a possibility that the reception of a log is exclusive, because the server decides who gets each log, but if it were way 2, it would only make sense that the reception is not exclusive (more than 1 person can win each log), since the server has no business calculating log retrieval rolls. As a programmer, way 2 makes more sense because it distributes the processing use more and will use less bandwidth server-side. Basically, that's why i don't think log getting is exclusive.

Even if both can get a log you would still have reduced chance of getting one. Though it might be possible you both roll a log, less chance of rolling it. The game can't give you both a 1:1 ratio, no game works that way. That'd be like using lootshare and expecting everyone to get a saradomin sword drop at the same time.

 

 

 

As for axes only cutting down trees faster, then why doesn't a bronze axe cut magic logs as fast as a rune axe does?

[slayernm613]

Say you have 99 woodcutting, cutting a magic tree. Every time you get 1 log you have a chance to cut the tree down. Now another person who is 99 woodcutting comes along and cuts your tree with the same type of axe. All the sudden that 1:1 ratio becomes 1:2, with him figured in you have half the chance of getting logs because the game has to split the output from the tree, while it doubles the chances it is cut down. That is why people cut their own trees.

 

It doesn't matter when the tree falls down as long as there's always a tree to chop. If you spend the maximum time possible chopping any tree, then you can still get the same amount of logs per hour. The logs per tree is unimportant. However, if you're spending a lot of time with no trees at all to chop, then that will reduce your logs per hour.

 

 

 

In other words, it makes no difference how many logs you get from one tree. All that matters is that you can keep getting logs the whole time without needing to wait for a respawn.

 

 

 

So yeah, the people who refuse to chop the same tree as another person are hurting everyone chopping in that area. If you're one of those people, I suggest you change your habits and work together with the other woodcutters. If you insist on chopping alone, then you should hop worlds.

Two things: 1. I can play and chop/fish/mine/, however I want. 2. He was merely asking why people would switch trees, so I gave him some basic math explaining why. Sure the trees respawn but as opposed to what I said, say you and this guy are at the same magic tree, but this time you are level 75 with a rune axe, and he is level 99 with a dragon axe. Now the game takes away the chances of you getting a log to compensate for his higher level.

 

 

 

How fast it falls and respawns is a whole different discussion in itself. Then you are asking yourself what you stand to gain from switching trees, and is it right for yourself to possibly make everyone else wait if both trees fall at once.

 

 

 

One guy with 99 wc + a dragon axe does not affect the amount of logs you get in any way, it only affects how much quicker this single tree falls down. It seems like we're arguing in this point: whether it's possible to get a log when someone else does. There are two ways that the game could calculate who gets a log: it could 1) roll on the server and send out to the winner of the log that they get it and to the loser that they don't, or it could 2) roll on each user's computer and send to the server when a log is received. If it were way 1, then there would be a possibility that the reception of a log is exclusive, because the server decides who gets each log, but if it were way 2, it would only make sense that the reception is not exclusive (more than 1 person can win each log), since the server has no business calculating log retrieval rolls. As a programmer, way 2 makes more sense because it distributes the processing use more and will use less bandwidth server-side. Basically, that's why i don't think log getting is exclusive.

Even if both can get a log you would still have reduced chance of getting one. Though it might be possible you both roll a log, less chance of rolling it. The game can't give you both a 1:1 ratio, no game works that way. That'd be like using lootshare and expecting everyone to get a saradomin sword drop at the same time.

 

 

 

As for axes only cutting down trees faster, then why doesn't a bronze axe cut magic logs as fast as a rune axe does?

 

were you listening? if it were way 2, i said, then my log retrieval is completely independent of someone else's. My chances are completely unaffected by you. furthermore, your analogy to lootshare doesn't really make sense, because that is definitely a server side roll, because it must be exclusive.

[Zierro]

There's logic to Woodcutting? Wow, that was the only skill where I didn't think at all while I was training it.

[Jenove]

true so true but btw for fasters xp until lvl 80 wc is drayonr willows

[Bashful]

i believe the number of logs that a tree gives out before turning into a stump is not fixed.. what actually happens is that there's a chance that every log obtained from the tree will result in it turning into a stump. so with more people on the tree, the rate of logs increases? which means that the tree will most likely be gone faster.

 

 

 

well, i dont really know whether this's true.. was kinda annoyed that i sometimes only get 1/2 logs per yew tree when i hit wc90. =/

[Troacctid]

true so true but btw for fasters xp until lvl 80 wc is drayonr willows

 

No, that part actually is not true. Willows are not good experience. :shame:

[slayernm613]

true so true but btw for fasters xp until lvl 80 wc is drayonr willows

 

No, that part actually is not true. Willows are not good experience. :shame:

 

willows are probably psychologically better, since you get more logs in the same time span no matter what. This is regardless of whether or not experience wise it's better.

[Smavey]

Took me a few minutes to think about it (i always was a mover when there were two)..and the poster is right....you still get the same exp lol

[Troacctid]

true so true but btw for fasters xp until lvl 80 wc is drayonr willows

 

No, that part actually is not true. Willows are not good experience. :shame:

 

willows are probably psychologically better, since you get more logs in the same time span no matter what. This is regardless of whether or not experience wise it's better.

 

First, what I said was that they weren't fastest and that they weren't good xp, both of which are true. Second, what do you mean "psychologically better"? Are teaks going to cause you to develop schizophrenia or autism or something? #-o