Training Controlled... Faster or a 'Croc'?

[ultimatballr]

First off let me say I searched the Debate Club forum and found nothing of this type so I will bring it up in hopes for a good discussion.

 

 

 

Browsing through the H&A forums and reading threads about gaining melee exp, you will see a number of people suggest to train controlled because it is "faster".

 

 

 

My question I am bringing to light is, however, does controlled really make your training faster?

 

 

 

I have seen a number of people talk about how they always save defence for last since they gain "more" exp with doing attack and strength first. Being able to hit higher and more often surely means you should gain faster exp, right?

 

 

 

But, what if you train all 3 at once instead? Would you be killing three birds with one stone (so to speak)?

 

 

 

Wouldn't it, in theory, be faster to gain defence exp with 99 attack and 90 strength than it would 90 attack and strength?

 

 

 

What do you guys (and/or gals) think? Would training controlled serve as a viable ultimatum instead of getting all to 99 separately? Or am I looking at this all wrong?

[Baconxl]

It's the same speed because you don't get any more xp for what you hit using controlled. All it does is spread the xp out evenly. If anything it makes it seem slower because you're leveling them all at once with a bigger gap in between levels than if you were doing each separately. I got maxed melee separately but I do wish I just did controlled. Although, if you just train on defensive with like a whip with low att/str then I guess it would be slower because you're not raising your chance to hit or your max hit so it would be slower that way...Depends how you do it I guess.

[leoben]

Ok assume you need 50k exp in all of them. You are killing Flesh Crawlers (25hp each 100xp per kill on 1 skill with individual training 25xp to all 3 on controlled, easier to caculate). You kill them at a constant rate of 10 seconds each.

 

 

 

Individual

 

50kx3 is 150k exp total.

 

150,000/100=1,500 You need to kill 1,500 crawlers.

 

1,500x10=15,000 seconds.

 

 

 

Controlled

 

You only need to gain 50k exp since you are training all 3 at the same time.

 

50,000/25=2,000 You need to kill 2,000 crawlers.

 

2,000x10=20,000 seconds.

 

 

 

So individual training is faster. Correct me if my calculations are wrong but to me they seem correct.

[Zierro]

When training with a specific style, you will be growing levels faster since the Xp will only be distributed to one skill at a time as opposed to having to wait 3 times as long just for your boost.

 

 

 

Player A: Gets Attack level. (Gets a little stronger.)

 

Player B: Gets 1/3 way in all 3 skills. (Nothing.)

 

Player A: Gets Strength level. (Gets a little stronger.)

 

Player B: Gets 2/3 way in all 3 skills. (Nothing.)

 

Player A: Gets Defence level. (Gets a little stronger.)

 

Player B: Gets 3/3 way in all 3 skills. (Finally gets as strong as Player A.)

 

 

 

As you can see, it would be more beneficial to grow levels as fast as you can so you can use them to your advantage for even faster Xp.

[ydrasil]

When put that way it does seem to look as if training each seperately is better if only slightly. Something not being taken into account is the weapon. Using a whip, you gain X amount of Attack experience then you get X amount of Defence experience. You then have to swap to a different weapon to get that X amount for Strength, in a longer time period. The whip in just about every case is the fastest way to train, and the best way to use the Whip is on controlled. So you have to weigh up the bonus of getting an Attack and Defence level, then followed by slower Strength experience, or you could simply use controlled getting it all at the fastest rate. Does the bonus of getting those 2 levels earlier outweigh the loss in speed by using a slower xp/h weapon than the whip?

[Owned_Nex]

Well

 

 

 

 

 

You loose 0.01 exp a damage. It might not seem like much, but multiply that by 10 million.

 

 

 

Also, having higher stats train faster. It takes longer to get to 93 attack then 93-99(Exp wise, 93 is halfway to 99)

[anim7]

Ok assume you need 50k exp in all of them. You are killing Flesh Crawlers (25hp each 100xp per kill on 1 skill with individual training 25xp to all 3 on controlled, easier to caculate). You kill them at a constant rate of 10 seconds each.

 

 

 

Individual

 

50kx3 is 150k exp total.

 

150,000/100=1,500 You need to kill 1,500 crawlers.

 

1,500x10=15,000 seconds.

 

 

 

Controlled

 

You only need to gain 50k exp since you are training all 3 at the same time.

 

50,000/25=2,000 You need to kill 2,000 crawlers.

 

2,000x10=20,000 seconds.

 

 

 

So individual training is faster. Correct me if my calculations are wrong but to me they seem correct.

 

 

 

well...not quite. it is 1.33xp to each stat per hitpoint. 25hp times 1.33 is 33.25xp. the amount of fleshies killed stays the same.

 

 

 

however, the other posters are correct in that training individually increases your skill level so that further lvls in other melee skills are easier.

[ultimatballr]

Well

 

 

 

 

 

You loose 0.01 exp a damage. It might not seem like much, but multiply that by 10 million.

 

 

 

Also, having higher stats train faster. It takes longer to get to 93 attack then 93-99(Exp wise, 93 is halfway to 99)

 

 

 

Actually, 92 is half of 99. But that has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

 

 

 

I did not take into account the fact of swapping out weapons for STR training. However, with the SS (which is faster exp/hour than a d scimmy and defender) your exp/hour get closer and closer to a whip. So with the gap closed to an even closer margin, I do believe that training them individually, even though you have to change weapons, would be faster than controlled.

[langer]

Training using controlled with the whip is better as long as there is no way to gain the same (or higher) xp/hour for strenght. I don't know the rates for sara sword for str, or how it compares to GS but from what I tested, whip still beats those on normal training. I'd advise training on controlled and DDS spec-ing on str. Make up the gap on the last levels 97-99, that's what I did and I didn't regret it. Just crossed the 29 mil XP in HP last week end.

 

 

 

Edit: after seeing Utimalballr's last post, I guess training individually is better IF you have the means to a SS (cash-wise).

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that the difference between controlled and individual is very slim given these conditions. It also depends on your choice of training (slayer, best xp/gp monsters, no def monster such as rock crabs)

 

 

 

If you need to get defence is order to train efficiently (slayer, dragons, etc...), then obviously you need to level defence, but if you train on low level monsters, you can train attack and strenght to high levels before getting to defence (this way you gain faster XP rates).

[PuppyKing]

I just train controlled so I don`t have to downgrade from a whip to train strength.

[Deathmath]

Yeah. It's faster to train str w/ controlled if you use a whip.

 

Well excluding a ss.

 

 

 

THat is why it is faster, only because whips pwn.

 

 

 

In general controlled is ftl.

[Owned_Nex]

Well

 

 

 

 

 

You loose 0.01 exp a damage. It might not seem like much, but multiply that by 10 million.

 

 

 

Also, having higher stats train faster. It takes longer to get to 93 attack then 93-99(Exp wise, 93 is halfway to 99)

 

 

 

Actually, 92 is half of 99. But that has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

 

 

 

I did not take into account the fact of swapping out weapons for STR training. However, with the SS (which is faster exp/hour than a d scimmy and defender) your exp/hour get closer and closer to a whip. So with the gap closed to an even closer margin, I do believe that training them individually, even though you have to change weapons, would be faster than controlled.

 

 

 

Well, SS has the same stats as a whip, but with whip you can use a defender.

 

 

 

OFC it would be faster than controlled.

[leoben]

Thanks anim. I thought it was 1 exp. So:

 

 

 

50,000/33.25=1,504 rounding up. So not much of a difference, which leaves whether controlled is faster or not to the weapon. And since I am f2p I can't comment on most of them, but individual training is better in f2p since all of our weapons (as far as I know) are inferior in controlled modes than in the other modes.

[Zaaps1]

It's faster because you'll never see a d scimmy. Because you won't need to switch to an inferior weapon, you'll will get something like 5k or so more xp per hour, swamping the possible bonus you'd get from say, hitting 2 damage higher.

[Reded]

It definately works out faster...

 

 

 

Think about it, if you use controlled you're effectively training all 3 melees with a whip, THE Best weapon for melee training, bar none (Except against Waterfiends :P)

 

 

 

If you train them all seperately, you basically have to train attack and defence with a whip, and strength with, at best, a Saradomin Sword, which as much as the stats and the speed and the everything else people notice straight away, is actually slower melee training than a Whip.

 

 

 

So what I'm trying to say here is... Three melees at max speed, or two at max speed with one at slightly reduced speed? :)

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

 

 

Reading through the thread more, it's become obvious that it REALLY Depends what you're training on. I trained my melees through Slayer mostly, and let me tell you using a Dragon Scimitar vs. monsters that you need a shield on (Dragons, Wyverns) Is NOT A nice experience :|

 

 

 

But if you're going to be camping at, for example, Yaks, with their low defence and low hits, you might benefit more from training strength/attack first, so your defence XP Would shoot up much faster thanks to your much better hits.

 

 

 

If I had to max combat again I'd do it with Controlled, purely for the fact that I wouldn't even think about training it outside of Slayer, and Dragons and Wyverns aren't cool with a Scimitar :)

[Owned_Nex]

It definately works out faster...

 

 

 

Think about it, if you use controlled you're effectively training all 3 melees with a whip, THE Best weapon for melee training, bar none (Except against Waterfiends :P)

 

 

 

 

Actually, I have seen many maxed out people do well at waterfiends with whip.

 

 

If you train them all seperately, you basically have to train attack and defence with a whip, and strength with, at best, a Saradomin Sword, which as much as the stats and the speed and the everything else people notice straight away, is actually slower melee training than a Whip.

 

 

 

 

Its not much slower. Sure, you can't use a Rune Defender, but mcuh faster then on controlled.

 

 

 

 

So what I'm trying to say here is... Three melees at max speed, or two at max speed with one at slightly reduced speed? :)

 

 

 

 

Max speed isin't correct, since speed is a measurement of time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

 

 

Reading through the thread more, it's become obvious that it REALLY Depends what you're training on. I trained my melees through Slayer mostly, and let me tell you using a Dragon Scimitar vs. monsters that you need a shield on (Dragons, Wyverns) Is NOT A nice experience :|

 

 

 

But if you're going to be camping at, for example, Yaks, with their low defence and low hits, you might benefit more from training strength/attack first, so your defence XP Would shoot up much faster thanks to your much better hits.

 

 

 

If I had to max combat again I'd do it with Controlled, purely for the fact that I wouldn't even think about training it outside of Slayer, and Dragons and Wyverns aren't cool with a Scimitar :)

 

 

 

 

 

But you must consider.

 

 

 

Your 3 stats are the exact same from 1-99(if you go solely controlled). You have LOWER stats because all three are training at once. Would you rather train at lvl 50 in everything? Or 70 Atk 60 Str 20 Def?

[Inuashakent]

I see a problem in people's logic here. The more you level, the more xp required it is to level. So instead of:

 

 

 

Your 3 stats are the exact same from 1-99(if you go solely controlled). You have LOWER stats because all three are training at once. Would you rather train at lvl 50 in everything? Or 70 Atk 60 Str 20 Def?

 

By the time you have 70 attack 60 str and 20 def, you would have had 60 everything, at least. Also, defense is often ignored as a very important training stat - you dish out more damage, but do you have any idea how much more food you'll use/bank time you lose?

 

 

 

Also, whip is the fastest training weapon in the game. No, the SS is slower.

[ultimatballr]

None Kent, if you grind away at low defence monsters. (Which generally have low attack stats as well) Things like Rock Crabs, Yaks and Experiments.

 

 

 

I did realize about the differences in exp though. That's kind of why I half-ssed it when I finished off my initial argument. Saying 90 all melees or 99 att etc etc.

 

 

 

I never did the math 100% through so if someone did that I am sure it would clear up all the misconceptions. I am just not good with experimenting and mathematician..ing :P ..

[langer]

It all boils down to what kind of training you are planning. If you plan on slaying, you will need to train defence, son controlled will be more efficient. If you plan on maxing out by only killing monsters with low att/str, then defence is un-needed or can stay low leveled. Using an inferior weapon to level str might be more efficient in this particular case. My way of training from 70 attack consisted mostly of controlled training with dds specials on STR. So I got my Str lvls faster and got my 99 melees pretty close to one another.

[Kenneh]

I personally found it slightly slower xp, yes obviously it is as it's devided by 3, but it still seems faster doing 1 style.

 

The main point i'd say, is look at most slayers. They have loads of extra attack xp because it seems to hit more accurately and therefore kill faster than controlled.

[B_Ryan20]

Controlled will always fail in comparison to 1 of the other 3

[Inuashakent]

I personally found it slightly slower xp, yes obviously it is as it's devided by 3, but it still seems faster doing 1 style.

 

The main point i'd say, is look at most slayers. They have loads of extra attack xp because it seems to hit more accurately and therefore kill faster than controlled.

 

2 Attack levels or 1 Strength and 1 Defense. Either way, it'll make a very little difference. Obviously it seems faster, but that's because you're getting more exp concentrated in one skills.

 

 

 

Controlled will always fail in comparison to 1 of the other 3

 

Care to explain why?

 

 

 

None Kent, if you grind away at low defence monsters. (Which generally have low attack stats as well) Things like Rock Crabs, Yaks and Experiments.

 

So you're saying that say, Defense and Strength levels are useless for high defense monsters? (Which usually hit accurately, so defense definetely helps, no?)

[introuble3]

When training with a specific style, you will be growing levels faster since the Xp will only be distributed to one skill at a time as opposed to having to wait 3 times as long just for your boost.

 

 

 

Player A: Gets Attack level. (Gets a little stronger.)

 

Player B: Gets 1/3 way in all 3 skills. (Nothing.)

 

Player A: Gets Strength level. (Gets a little stronger.)

 

Player B: Gets 2/3 way in all 3 skills. (Nothing.)

 

Player A: Gets Defence level. (Gets a little stronger.)

 

Player B: Gets 3/3 way in all 3 skills. (Finally gets as strong as Player A.)

 

 

 

As you can see, it would be more beneficial to grow levels as fast as you can so you can use them to your advantage for even faster Xp.

 

 

 

+1 I agree this is definitely why it's better not to train controlled.

[Inuashakent]

When training with a specific style, you will be growing levels faster since the Xp will only be distributed to one skill at a time as opposed to having to wait 3 times as long just for your boost.

 

 

 

Player A: Gets Attack level. (Gets a little stronger.)

 

Player B: Gets 1/3 way in all 3 skills. (Nothing.)

 

Player A: Gets Strength level. (Gets a little stronger.)

 

Player B: Gets 2/3 way in all 3 skills. (Nothing.)

 

Player A: Gets Defence level. (Gets a little stronger.)

 

Player B: Gets 3/3 way in all 3 skills. (Finally gets as strong as Player A.)

 

 

 

As you can see, it would be more beneficial to grow levels as fast as you can so you can use them to your advantage for even faster Xp.

 

 

 

+1 I agree this is definitely why it's better not to train controlled.

 

This is wrong. It would actually be...

 

 

 

Player A: Gets Attack level.

 

Player B: Gets 1/2 way in all 3 skills.

 

Player A: Gets Strength level.

 

Player B: Gets 1 way in all 3 skills.

 

Player A: Gets Defence level.

 

Player B: Gets 1 1/3 way in all 3 skills.

 

 

 

It takes a while for Player A to catch up, but after a level or two more, Player A NEVER catches up.

[langer]

I think you got it wrong Kent...

 

Zierro was right, say you need 60k exp to level att, str and def.

 

 

 

Player A gets 60k xp in Att - gets a lvl (gets better xp rates)

 

Player B gets 20k in att, str and def - stays the same

 

Player A gets 60k in str - gets a lvl (gets better xp rates)

 

Player B gets 20k in att, str and def - still have not leveled

 

Player A gets 60k in def - gets a lvl at the same time Player B levels all 3

 

Player B gets 20k in att, str and def - levels all at the same time Player A gets def lvl.

 

 

 

So player A gets better rates xp during 120k xp so he should theorically get his def lvl before player B. That is with the assumption both player are using the same weapon giving the same bonus (which is pretty rare - D long on controlled uses stab attack which is lower than slash for example).

 

 

 

So you're saying that say, Defense and Strength levels are useless for high defense monsters? (Which usually hit accurately, so defense definetely helps, no?)

 

 

 

I think he just meant that defence is not really required for monsters with low attack. The other way around was not mentionned as it would be very wrong.