if he had nothing to do with nything...then y was he running in the first place? :?:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

jw...

The police were plain clothed, maybe he thought they were racial abusers and thought they were going to beat him up. I dont know, the police dont know.

Excessive force plain and simple.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't give a damn if the reason was he was a suspected terrorist.

 

 

 

Shooting someone 5 times when they're down is not law enforcement, that's execution.

 

 

 

I don't care if they assumed he was a terrorist, the only proof they had was VERY WEAK at the most.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like Daan's general statement stands.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rather ironic really.

I kind of guessed he was innocent when I heard the news. If he was a real terrorist he most likely would have had time to detonate the bomb. That's just the price you have to pay for anti terrorist operations. You can't really blame the police even though the guy didn't have a back pack like most of the other bombers.

Cops made a bad call -> innocent person got killed.

 

 

 

Or not quite innocent as most people but still, he wasn't a bomber.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tunnel vision perhaps? (if you're not familar with that term in reference to combat situations don't reply to it :P) Wouldn't exactly suprise me given how paranoid they would be over there :-?

Yeah! Reminds me of CS... lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Excessive force my [wagon]. He was a terrorist. He was going to kill people. He wanted you dead. Yes you. He wanted YOU dead. How does it feel that someone wants you dead?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Edited by Pyro: That's quite enough...]

You'd be a little jumpy too if your country had just been attacked twice in 2 weeks.

 

 

 

Sure it's unproffessional and doesn't justify it but you can see why. Besides, someone had to give America a break in frogging up, may as well be its closest ally.

True, Bubsa.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can understand the use, I was just skeptical about it since the story broke.

 

 

 

Something didn't sound right from the start hence why I really didn't want to post till I knew more.

 

 

 

And know we all know the police botch something up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I still stand with my comment, but more leaning towards general panic on the part of the officers.

 

 

 

People panic and lose focus of the situation. Seems like that's all that happened here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:dunno:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Noobinated: If that was directed at me then...

 

 

 

1. He wasn't going to kill people (that was assumed).

 

 

 

2. Having someone come after you perosnally is worse than being the victim of randomness. I know the first feeling.

 

 

 

3. Don't be racist

 

 

 

4. Don't abuse the censor

 

 

 

5. Come back when you mature

Wait, news today is the guy wasnt a suspect in the bombings? Had nothing to do with it? Didn't Rizla say the guy had a bomb on his back? What the heck? Im confused. :?

Initial media reports said the guy had a bomb.

 

 

 

Now police reports are saying he didn't? Was just a possibility or something like that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Least to my knowledge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another 24 hours will more than likely clear up any ambiguity about it.

Noobinated, it would help if you knew the actual right of freedom of speech.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Rick, you're right to have that opinion I was only providing a sort of folorn reasoning. As you can tell, the whole incident is rather shameful.

Well they do kind of have the right to cry, he wasnt related to terrorists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And @ the person who said why did he run, i already made the comment that he probably thought the people chasing him (the plain clothed police) were trying injure him due to his ethnicity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh what a difference a day can make..

 

 

they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

pushing someone to the floor, subduing them, and than shooting them, is known as murder in the united states....but of corse England has different laws.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a different story when your dealing with potential suicide bombers that could kill hundreds of people if they aren't immobilised immediately.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

acording to your logic, the united states should hunt down, and execute (on the spot) every one who worships Islam because they have the potential to kill 100's VIA saiside bombing.

Funny thing is he didnt have a bomb strapped to him at all..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you were walking in a train station and some plain-clothed guys said to you "stop or we shoot!" Wouldnt you run? they didnt even say "police" to him, i would of ran.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It makes it worse how they caught up with him THEN shot him 5 times, He didnt even have a bomb. Rizla you made a fool of himself, And everyone else who liked the fact that police are now shooting suspects who havnt been proved guilty.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HAW HAW HAW LETS BE LIKE THE MERICANS AND SHOOT Y'ALL WHO LOOK DODGY HAW HAW HAW.

Seems like the cops handled a bit too quick, aye?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Monkey, I hope you don't mind me posting sunday. I had a few drinks now, thus I'm not at my best now. :P I'll drop you a pm when I posted my reply, okay? :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This basically means that you cant think of anything to defend your rediculous comments? The police did a great job IMO and I have gained respect for the police in London after hearing about this

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh man, don't give me that. I defended myself all morning to similar attacks by forum users. It was friday night, I worked, I had a few beers. I wanted to make a decent post without too much errors. And I'm glad you have respect for the London police for shooting an innocent man.

Seems like the cops handled a bit too quick, aye?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Monkey, I hope you don't mind me posting sunday. I had a few drinks now, thus I'm not at my best now. :P I'll drop you a pm when I posted my reply, okay? :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This basically means that you cant think of anything to defend your rediculous comments? The police did a great job IMO and I have gained respect for the police in London after hearing about this

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh man, don't give me that. I defended myself all morning to similar attacks by forum users. It was friday night, I worked, I had a few beers. I wanted to make a decent post without too much errors. And I'm glad you have respect for the London police for shooting an innocent man.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To be fair jackalope didnt know the man was innocent at that point in time. You could check the times of some posts if you want to check.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And darkness11 Rizla wasn't made a fool of, he made the topic because he was the first with the idea, he presented his opinion. I didnt see you voice an opinion, so stop sitting on the fence and risk an observation. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, so congratulations on using it, however its useless now, isn't it.

Well from what i gathered reading the papers he wasnt guilty of being about to blow up the train, but he also wasnt innocent and void of terrorist activity. Shooting is the best bet when you are sure there is a threat, but otherwise the people who did it didnt have the authority to do it at all and they should get punished accordingly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

==ice==

 

 

 

they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

pushing someone to the floor, subduing them, and than shooting them, is known as murder in the united states....but of corse England has different laws.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a different story when your dealing with potential suicide bombers that could kill hundreds of people if they aren't immobilised immediately.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

acording to your logic, the united states should hunt down, and execute (on the spot) every one who worships Islam because they have the potential to kill 100's VIA saiside bombing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never stated that all Muslims were potential terrorists, that's blatantly ridiculous. What i am saying is that when a suspected man comes out of a house related to the previous bombings wearing a thick coat on a warm day that will raise a few eyebrows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When the undercover police confronted him (not violently at this stage) and revealed their identity as plain clothes police officers (which they have to do before engaging a suspect) he vaults a ticket barrier and runs into a busy train station. The officers gave chase and in that situation would have obviously got their guns out and threatened him with opening fire, so of course he keeps on running. After telling him to stop numerous times he keeps on running. Still wearing a heavy jacket on a hot day whilst sprinting away. He dives onto a crowded train (still wearing the jacket) and by this time in most agents books this guy poses a serious threat. Many people have died already and there's no way that they will take their chances with this guy. They kill him, immobilising any threat. Now you tell me that he wasn't acting in a way that would arouse extreme suspicion amongst highly trained professionals who don't just chase down and reveal their identity without VERY good cause.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lets face it, they could have probably of brought him down during the chase they're such crack shots, but they waited, thinking he would stop. They waited until the last possible moment before deciding to kill, waited until they were absolutely sure this wasn't just some guy who jumped at the sight of guns.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I value life above all else as i have stated numerous times but i would have acted in exactly the same way if i had been in the shoes of the officers. It's all nice and good taking the idealistic pacificist view, but in a city that's being threatened daily by suicide bombers, taking chances and taking this view could cost hundreds of innocent lives.

 

 

 

 

they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

pushing someone to the floor, subduing them, and than shooting them, is known as murder in the united states....but of corse England has different laws.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a different story when your dealing with potential suicide bombers that could kill hundreds of people if they aren't immobilised immediately.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

acording to your logic, the united states should hunt down, and execute (on the spot) every one who worships Islam because they have the potential to kill 100's VIA saiside bombing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never stated that all Muslims were potential terrorists, that's blatantly ridiculous. What i am saying is that when a suspected man comes out of a house related to the previous bombings wearing a thick coat on a warm day that will raise a few eyebrows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When the undercover police confronted him (not violently at this stage) and revealed their identity as plain clothes police officers (which they have to do before engaging a suspect) he vaults a ticket barrier and runs into a busy train station. The officers gave chase and in that situation would have obviously got their guns out and threatened him with opening fire, so of course he keeps on running. After telling him to stop numerous times he keeps on running. Still wearing a heavy jacket on a hot day whilst sprinting away. He dives onto a crowded train (still wearing the jacket) and by this time in most agents books this guy poses a serious threat. Many people have died already and there's no way that they will take their chances with this guy. They kill him, immobilising any threat. Now you tell me that he wasn't acting in a way that would arouse extreme suspicion amongst highly trained professionals who don't just chase down and reveal their identity without VERY good cause.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lets face it, they could have probably of brought him down during the chase they're such crack shots, but they waited, thinking he would stop. They waited until the last possible moment before deciding to kill, waited until they were absolutely sure this wasn't just some guy who jumped at the sight of guns.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I value life above all else as i have stated numerous times but i would have acted in exactly the same way if i had been in the shoes of the officers. It's all nice and good taking the idealistic pacificist view, but in a city that's being threatened daily by suicide bombers, taking chances and taking this view could cost hundreds of innocent lives.

 

 

 

you sayed potential suiside bombers, and since islamic folk have been blowing themselves up in Iraq quite a bit latly, it would fit right in with your logic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Latest AP report http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050723/ap_ ... NlYwN0bQ--

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

here is a quote from that artical

 

 

 

when plainclothes police chased him into a subway car, pinned him to the ground and shot him in the head and torso

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now the poor person was from Brazil, which has quite a bit hotter and more humid that Jolly ol' England.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the police never stated they were police, they never tryed less than lethal weapons they had (stun guns, e.t.c.) first...simple tackeled him, subdued him, and shot him 5 times

All terrorists are muslems, but not all muslems are terrorists. Thats not racist at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not all terrorists are muslim. This is not a racist comment it is simply just naiive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh man, don't give me that. I defended myself all morning to similar attacks by forum users. It was friday night, I worked, I had a few beers. I wanted to make a decent post without too much errors. And I'm glad you have respect for the London police for shooting an innocent man.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didnt know that he was innocent when I posted this. In fact I didnt even know he was innocent until I read this page of the post, the news I had was that he did have a bomb strapped to him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It makes it worse how they caught up with him THEN shot him 5 times, He didnt even have a bomb. Rizla you made a fool of himself, And everyone else who liked the fact that police are now shooting suspects who havnt been proved guilty.

 

 

 

 

 

 

He did not make a fool of himself because he didnt know the fact that the guy didnt have a bomb. I dont know how exactly the whole thing played out, or why they thought he might have a bomb so im not even going to form an opinion. I cannot even imagine what it might have been to be a police officer in that situation :?

Heh, I am assuming this post is on the person that turned out to be innocent, unless someone else has been shot.

 

 

 

As for people who say "blah blah, he was running from the police, how could he be innocent?"

 

 

 

The police were unmarked, they were NOT dressed as police. If a person who has a gun and is running through a train whilst in plain clothes after the recent goings on in London, you people stand still instead of running, because of the slight possibility that it is a police officer.

 

 

 

I think this is yet another dark day, when innocents are being killed by police.

 

 

 

 

 

they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

pushing someone to the floor, subduing them, and than shooting them, is known as murder in the united states....but of corse England has different laws.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a different story when your dealing with potential suicide bombers that could kill hundreds of people if they aren't immobilised immediately.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

acording to your logic, the united states should hunt down, and execute (on the spot) every one who worships Islam because they have the potential to kill 100's VIA saiside bombing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never stated that all Muslims were potential terrorists, that's blatantly ridiculous. What i am saying is that when a suspected man comes out of a house related to the previous bombings wearing a thick coat on a warm day that will raise a few eyebrows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When the undercover police confronted him (not violently at this stage) and revealed their identity as plain clothes police officers (which they have to do before engaging a suspect) he vaults a ticket barrier and runs into a busy train station. The officers gave chase and in that situation would have obviously got their guns out and threatened him with opening fire, so of course he keeps on running. After telling him to stop numerous times he keeps on running. Still wearing a heavy jacket on a hot day whilst sprinting away. He dives onto a crowded train (still wearing the jacket) and by this time in most agents books this guy poses a serious threat. Many people have died already and there's no way that they will take their chances with this guy. They kill him, immobilising any threat. Now you tell me that he wasn't acting in a way that would arouse extreme suspicion amongst highly trained professionals who don't just chase down and reveal their identity without VERY good cause.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lets face it, they could have probably of brought him down during the chase they're such crack shots, but they waited, thinking he would stop. They waited until the last possible moment before deciding to kill, waited until they were absolutely sure this wasn't just some guy who jumped at the sight of guns.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I value life above all else as i have stated numerous times but i would have acted in exactly the same way if i had been in the shoes of the officers. It's all nice and good taking the idealistic pacificist view, but in a city that's being threatened daily by suicide bombers, taking chances and taking this view could cost hundreds of innocent lives.

 

 

 

you sayed potential suiside bombers, and since islamic folk have been blowing themselves up in Iraq quite a bit latly, it would fit right in with your logic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Latest AP report http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050723/ap_ ... NlYwN0bQ--

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

here is a quote from that artical

 

 

 

when plainclothes police chased him into a subway car, pinned him to the ground and shot him in the head and torso

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now the poor person was from Brazil, which has quite a bit hotter and more humid that Jolly ol' England.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the police never stated they were police, they never tryed less than lethal weapons they had (stun guns, e.t.c.) first...simple tackeled him, subdued him, and shot him 5 times

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Despite the fact they were plainclothes they will have made it clear to him that they were police officers before directly engaging him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And as for the "potential suicide bombers" thing, according to your logic (which is actually right) technically every single person is a potential suicide bomber, what i meant is that if a guy had a bomb on him then he was a potential suicide bomber, but would only become one if he pressed the button.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway i'm not going to argue anymore, turns out the guy was "innocent". There's been a serious botch up on the behalf of the intelligence and officers involved. It's horrific that an innocent man should die but the police will be on very high alert at the moment. Let's just say the guy they shot acted in the wrong way given the current situation in London. It is terrible though that the poor guy was killed. I assumed they had some more evidence on him than just the fact that he looked a bit shifty. Oh well i stand corrected.

Funny thing is he didnt have a bomb strapped to him at all..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you were walking in a train station and some plain-clothed guys said to you "stop or we shoot!" Wouldnt you run? they didnt even say "police" to him, i would of ran.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It makes it worse how they caught up with him THEN shot him 5 times, He didnt even have a bomb. Rizla you made a fool of himself, And everyone else who liked the fact that police are now shooting suspects who havnt been proved guilty.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HAW HAW HAW LETS BE LIKE THE MERICANS AND SHOOT Y'ALL WHO LOOK DODGY HAW HAW HAW.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If i "made a fool of myself", then i apologise. I gave my opinion based on the facts that were available at the time. Next time i post something like this i'll remember to jump in my time machine, take a quick trip to the future so i can forsee what will happen in the weeks after the event, and make sure i don't get anything wrong, just to suit you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The police were in the wrong, there's no defending that. They followed this guy from a house that was under surveilance, and from what i can gather they told him to stop and he ran. I'm not condoning what the police did but if someone says "stop or we shoot", you can bet your 'wagon' i wouldn't be running anywhere, especially not onto a train.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's no need for you to twist people's words, no-one knew that this guy wasn't guilty so of course we were happy the threat had been stopped. Obviously we now know differently and no one should feel happy about what is a tragic death.

 

 

 

The fact that you came into this thread purely to ridicule me and others says enough about you to make me realise i'm probably wasting my time saying all this, but i'm not going to be called an idiot by anyone.

 

Funny thing is he didnt have a bomb strapped to him at all..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you were walking in a train station and some plain-clothed guys said to you "stop or we shoot!" Wouldnt you run? they didnt even say "police" to him, i would of ran.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It makes it worse how they caught up with him THEN shot him 5 times, He didnt even have a bomb. Rizla you made a fool of himself, And everyone else who liked the fact that police are now shooting suspects who havnt been proved guilty.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HAW HAW HAW LETS BE LIKE THE MERICANS AND SHOOT Y'ALL WHO LOOK DODGY HAW HAW HAW.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If i "made a fool of myself", then i apologise. I gave my opinion based on the facts that were available at the time. Next time i post something like this i'll remember to jump in my time machine, take a quick trip to the future so i can forsee what will happen in the weeks after the event, and make sure i don't get anything wrong, just to suit you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The police were in the wrong, there's no defending that. They followed this guy from a house that was under surveilance, and from what i can gather they told him to stop and he ran. I'm not condoning what the police did but if someone says "stop or we shoot", you can bet your 'wagon' i wouldn't be running anywhere, especially not onto a train.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's no need for you to twist people's words, no-one knew that this guy wasn't guilty so of course we were happy the threat had been stopped. Obviously we now know differently and no one should feel happy about what is a tragic death.

 

 

 

The fact that you came into this thread purely to ridicule me and others says enough about you to make me realise i'm probably wasting my time saying all this, but i'm not going to be called an idiot by anyone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nicely said Rizla,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Darkness firstly, stereotyping americans like you did in your last sentence is just as bad as stereotyping all Muslims as terrorists. Both stereotypes are blatantly incorrect, and racially predjudice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Secondly, just as Rizla said, when this thread was created we were talking and posting based on the evidence we had at the time. We had no idea that he was "innocent", all we knew is that it sounded fairly secretive and connected to the bombings, the officers involved were undercover SFO's who revealed their identity in chasing him, which they don't normally do without good cause. In no way am i saying what they did was right, but at the time it sounded like they acted in the correct way. Obviously they didn't, they shot an innocent man, a rather stupid innocent man granted, but someone who was nonetheless innocent. People seem to keep hammering home the point about running away from men with guns. From what i have read in the papers, they only brandish their guns and open fire after clearly stating that they are indeed plain clothes officers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So think before you post Darkness, read through all of what we said on such a sensitive topic, and don't just go with the "lets all laugh at the fools who thought he was a terrorist" current media bandwagon.

Geez, iv never heard of a brazilian suicide bomber. Plus, how the hell are you supposed to make sure that he IS a suicide bomber if you reveal that you are tracking him he can just blow himself up? Loads of bs in my view.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The cop probably played too much CS and was way too trigger happy and the brazilian's only crime was having a little darker skin and wore a heavy coat. I think from now on every dark skinned person in Britain should go around butt naked.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It comes down to that suicide bombings are not enough. Terroists generate terror in civilians. Scotland Yard seemed to have done the same (now you have to look for dark skinned people wearing too much AND policemen with a finger in the trigger). Can we call those policeman terrorists please? Frankly there is very little you can do when the terrorist is willing to self destruct. I guess people should just cross their fingers and hope that they are not wearing too much.