Yep, something isn't right in this story. From a Chinese guy with a bomb on his back, to a Brazilian guy who had nothing to do with the bombings? What?

Stupid police.. sorry, stupid BRITISH police. They're taking it too far, they could have taken him into custody and questioned him, but they had to shoot him instead.

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Stupid police.. sorry, stupid BRITISH police. They're taking it too far, they could have taken him into custody and questioned him, but they had to shoot him instead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If a copper with a gun shouts to me "stop or we'll shoot" the last thing on my mind would be to run.

 

 

 

The police were not "stupid" at all and were doing what they are trained to do. The police can only "shoot to kill" on a suspected terrorist so its not like in america where ppl are getting shot all over the place daily.

goku_nazz: I have done a little research onto our "Stupid British police" and found only 5 counts of accidental shooting since 1983. I will try and give a few details about each incident.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

14 Jan 1983: Stephen Waldorf, Kensington, west London

 

 

 

Mr Waldorf was shot five times after being fired at by police officers who were on the trail of a dangerous escaped prisoner called David Martin.

 

 

 

The confusion apparently arose because police mistook Mr Waldorf for Mr Martin, partly because they both had long hair and partly because Mr Waldorf was accompanied by Mr Martin's girlfriend Sue Stephens.

 

 

 

15 Jan 1998: James Ashley, St Leonards, East Sussex

 

 

 

I don't really know much about this case apart from that the three senior police officers were cleared in 2001 of any wrongdoing in the raid.

 

 

 

22 Sep 1999: Harry Stanley, Hackney, east London

 

 

 

Harry Stanley was walking home with a table leg in a plastic bag and was again ordered to stop. Aparently he then lifted up the bag and went to open it and officers belived it to be a shotgun.

 

 

 

July 2001: Derek Bennett, Brixton, south London

 

 

 

He was seen brandishing a cigarette lighter shaped like a gun.

 

 

 

21 July 2005: Jean Charles de Menezes, Stockwell, London

 

 

 

Jean Charles de Menezes leaves a house under surveillance and arrives at Stockwell station. Witnesses say he vaults the automatic ticket barriers and heads for the platforms. He then ran down an escalator after being approached by up to 20 plain-clothed police officers and tried to board a train. He apparently refuses to obey police instructions and after running onto a northbound Northern line train, he is shot dead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As unfortunate as it was for an innocent to lose their life you can see that the police acted in a reasonable way.

 

 

 

Sir Ian Blair (MET Commissioner) said to the press the other day that there was "no point" shooting a suspect in the chest as that is where a bomb would most likely be and it would detonate. Nor could you Taser a suspect for fear of detonating the bomb. The former Met Police Commissioner has sent teams to Israel and other countries hit by suicide bombers to see how they tacle the issue and found the horrible truth that the only way to stop a suicide bomber was to "destroy his brain instantly, utterly" to prevent a dying bomber activating a device.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps you would like me to do some research into your country's police mistakes. They dont happen very often over here, are you so confident in your own police force?

22 Sep 1999: Harry Stanley, Hackney, east London

 

 

 

Harry Stanley was walking home with a table leg in a plastic bag and was again ordered to stop. Aparently he then lifted up the bag and went to open it and officers belived it to be a shotgun.

 

 

 

That one could've been avoided VERY easily.

 

 

 

But as you say, accidental shooting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It happened 6 years ago, so whatever.

They could all have been avoided Rick. But I wasnt there so I cant feel the tension and stress the police did. Hindsight is wonderful, its just a shame its never there in the moment when its needed most.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4713753.stm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This would explain why he ran.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4713753.stm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This would explain why he ran.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats an interesting article. I thought he was shot only 5 times, but this says seven :? . It still sounds like they dont know all the facts about what happened though

 

 

 

If a copper with a gun shouts to me "stop or we'll shoot" the last thing on my mind would be to run.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've said it before, but I think it's relevant again: If anyone pointed a gun at me and told shouted "stop or we'll shoot" at me, I'd stop; policeman, terrorist, bank manager, whoever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've not paid any attention to this: I'm going to do that once it's not longer in the spotlight so that I leave out most of the hype. I gather from what I've read here that he's innocent. Regardless, perhaps the only thing that would make me run from an armed person who wanted me to stop would be if my life were somehow already forfeit, and I would have "failed my task" by standing still and being arrested.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He had been followed by police, who had his block of flats under surveillance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When he was challenged by police in the Tube station, he fled, reportedly leaping the ticket barrier.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Over the past year there have been an increased number of immigration checks at Tube stations - a policy widely reported in Brazilian papers in London.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I say, I gather he was innocent. Respect for the dead, and all, but either he had a good reason to run from the police, or he wasn't all that bright: which is more important, his life, or avoiding some manner of punishment for not having a visa? After all, since we don't have the death penalty in England (we're not that high on brute force, after all (ahem)) he stood a 100% chance of living if he turned himself in, which he would know, having lived here for more than 3 years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Once again; I really have nothing against the guy, assuming he was innocent, and take back anything I said against him or his mental prowess if there was a good reason for his alleged actions. I just don't think we're being told everything here).

 

 

 

 

If a copper with a gun shouts to me "stop or we'll shoot" the last thing on my mind would be to run.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've said it before, but I think it's relevant again: If anyone pointed a gun at me and told shouted "stop or we'll shoot" at me, I'd stop; policeman, terrorist, bank manager, whoever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've not paid any attention to this: I'm going to do that once it's not longer in the spotlight so that I leave out most of the hype. I gather from what I've read here that he's innocent. Regardless, perhaps the only thing that would make me run from an armed person who wanted me to stop would be if my life were somehow already forfeit, and I would have "failed my task" by standing still and being arrested.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He had been followed by police, who had his block of flats under surveillance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When he was challenged by police in the Tube station, he fled, reportedly leaping the ticket barrier.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Over the past year there have been an increased number of immigration checks at Tube stations - a policy widely reported in Brazilian papers in London.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I say, I gather he was innocent. Respect for the dead, and all, but either he had a good reason to run from the police, or he wasn't all that bright: which is more important, his life, or avoiding some manner of punishment for not having a visa? After all, since we don't have the death penalty in England (we're not that high on brute force, after all (ahem)) he stood a 100% chance of living if he turned himself in, which he would know, having lived here for more than 3 years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Once again; I really have nothing against the guy, assuming he was innocent, and take back anything I said against him or his mental prowess if there was a good reason for his alleged actions. I just don't think we're being told everything here).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yea, I agree. There is a guy that you have had under surveillence, and then when cops tell him to stop he starts to run. hmmmm...

I can't tell if you're * ** ***sarcastic there or not: if so--remember the guns and the threatening, and all that; if not, yeah: what you said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: * I removed the word "trying": that was just rude of me, and I didn't notice I'd put it in there, sorry :oops: .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Second Edit: ** I removed the word "to", :oops: :oops: .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Third Edit: *** What's wrong with me tonight! Now I've removed the word "be". I'm the one that needs shooting--for not thinking about what I'm typing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fourth Edit: for consistency's sake, I added the three asterisks into the third edit there. --ok, maybe I'm just bored and am subconsciously trying to bulk out what I wrote.

I can't tell if you're * ** ***sarcastic there or not: if so--remember the guns and the threatening, and all that; if not, yeah: what you said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: * I removed the word "trying": that was just rude of me, and I didn't notice I'd put it in there, sorry :oops: .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Second Edit: ** I removed the word "to", :oops: :oops: .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Third Edit: *** What's wrong with me tonight! Now I've removed the word "be". I'm the one that needs shooting--for not thinking about what I'm typing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fourth Edit: for consistency's sake, I added the three asterisks into the third edit there. --ok, maybe I'm just bored and am subconsciously trying to bulk out what I wrote.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wasnt being sarcastic towards your comments, I was agreeing :wink:

:? From what ive gathered from watching the news, i expect atleast 1 more inocent dead before this terrorist stuff is over. From what ive heard (only what ive heard), Anyone found suspicouse of being a terrorist (like this guy was) is to be killed instintly. Just incase they are terrorists... this isnt right...

 

 

 

Yea, I agree. There is a guy that you have had under surveillence, and then when cops tell him to stop he starts to run. hmmmm...

There was an article on a news website today that claimed he was in England illegaly, which would be a logical reason to run from cops.

:? From what ive gathered from watching the news, i expect atleast 1 more inocent dead before this terrorist stuff is over. From what ive heard (only what ive heard), Anyone found suspicouse of being a terrorist (like this guy was) is to be killed instintly. Just incase they are terrorists... this isnt right...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The thing is though they didn't kill him instantly, they gave him a chance to come quietly, the police WILL have told him that they were plain clothes police officers before brandishing their firearms (which were high quality military anyway). But instead they ran, and chased him some considerable time and i'm sure that all of them will have wanted to arrest him nicely, so that's why this just didn't open fire instantly. It was only when he ran onto a crowded train, (which if they still thought he was a terrorist would be sending alarm bells ringing), that they shot him, to ensure 100% that he wasn't a danger. Terrorists, especially the amateurs, which they presumed this guy to be, are extremely dangerous, and you can't take any chances with people who are willing to strap bombs to them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So IMO given the information that the police had they acted in the right way. It turns out he's innocent, but don't blame the officers, because if i'd been told he WAS a suicide bomber then i would of acted in that way. He wasn't, it was a intelligence mess-up, which probably wasn't the officers fault, or it might have been, it's unlikely we'll know until the investigation is finished.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But the police killing 1 innocent man does in no way make us "just as bad" as all the terrorists. They kill mercilessly without remorse and brutally with no regard for sacred human life. The officers acted based on the information they were given, and unfortunately for the Brazilian he acted like a suspicious terrorist too.

If an unknown guy walked into your house with a knife, swinging it around, wouldn't you kill the bastard too?

If an unknown guy walked into your house with a knife, swinging it around, wouldn't you kill the bastard too?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your point being?

 

If an unknown guy walked into your house with a knife, swinging it around, wouldn't you kill the bastard too?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your point being?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:? Its an anology.... He's comparing a break in person coming to kill you with the terrorists in london.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personaly no, i wouldnt kill them (Unless after many attemps on my life) I would just Tell them to leave, and if they dont, ill threaten them, if not still, try and disable them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, dont break through the censors just to swear....

If an unknown guy walked into your house with a knife, swinging it around, wouldn't you kill the bastard too?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The brazilian wasn't using or even holding any weapon of any sort on him at the time. I don't know how that can be compared to the "swinging of a knife" so you obviously can't read well...

 

 

 

Also, about the comparison of an unknown randomly walking into your house, are you just making stuff up as you go? He didn't walk into a building/house/etc as an unknown or anything, he was simply at a tube station...

 

 

 

On another note, don't avoid the censor...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, back on-topic, in my opinion, here are the facts, with my views...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) The police did not clearly state that they were British Police when asking him to stop. They said they'd shoot if he ran. Now, in my opinion this can go two ways. I would either (a) run, afraid that I was being rolled/mugged, beat, threatened, taken hostage, etc - or (B) hold my hands up and stand on the spot or get on teh ground in fear of gunfire and the possibilty of them being authority. It's not fair in my opinion, to accuse him of doing illegal business because he ran when plain-clothed police men threatened him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) The police did assume, which was wrong, but they did it for a right cause. Don't know what to think about this. I suppose I may have resorted to force (maybe not lethal gunfire, but yeh) if he ran onto a train (if I made teh assumption he was a terrorist), but I still really think it was unnecessary to just assume he was a terrorist :/ Again, I can't walk in their shoes too well, seeing as it was a very quick decision, but I have to say that I am against the policemen's way of thinking, but support their ability to take care of a problem (not that it was).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was going to write more but gotta go now, so I will edit my post later I suppose... Good bye =)

I've just thought of something, but no doubt because I've not been listening to the reports, it's old news. The man reporting said that there were several armed policemen there, and that he heard however many shots...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...could it not be that the policemen all fired, (so letting of that many shots in total), and the guy assumed that he had been shot 5 times in a row by the same person?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe there have been other witnesses now who saw it and it's not like that. Just thought I'd say that, though.

its national security..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

sometimes you have to be a [bleep] and take someones life.

Anyway, back on-topic, in my opinion, here are the facts, with my views...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) The police did not clearly state that they were British Police when asking him to stop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you please quote your "facts". Because the BBC says otherwise. Just because one witness didnt hear didnt mean it didnt happen. Eye witnesses are notorious really and you can never be sure its true. There were some witness reports of 12 shots being fired at one point.

 

 

 

The officers wernt just regular PC's or specials with a gun they were fully trained and acted with force only when it was necessary. The guy was asked to stop and he ran, officers tried to get him to stop but after her jumped onto the train they feared the worst and fired. Under the circumstances i would probably have done the same.

To back up what Matt has said, i suggest people read this article before they start running their mouth about 'the facts'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The 'victim' vaulted the ticket barriers, ran down an escalator, was approached by officers who he then evaded before boarding the train and being shot.

 

 

 

Again, i'd like to make it clear than i'm not condoning what happened - the police made a mistake - but he didn't exactly make it too easy on himself did he?

 

 

 

People are saying they would run from plain clothes people with weapons - use your common sense, the subways are crawling with police for obvious reasons, and you're running around like a lunatic trying to get onto a train. A group of people point weapons at you and tell you to stop or they'll shoot, who the hell do you think it's going to be?

I wonder why they acted this way. For their safety and the safety of others, or just out of frustration and to "Get this scum off the face of the Earth.".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Either will do for me. These suicide bombers and terrorists dont deserve to be treated with ANY courtesy at all. i would rather have 1 man (who, by the way, wasn't even supposed to be in this country becasue his Visa had run out) dead, than have a repeat of 2 weeks ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

congrats to the police for finally showing that the UK will not stand for these sort of events, and that we are one of many major countries who are truly fighting these people.