A Growing Problem...

[mario_sunny]

If you're willing to pay maximum price for an item, shouldn't you get it instantly, or at least very soon after your offer?

 

 

 

If the problem in 2006 was RWT, then the problem in 2008-2009 is manipulators. It's absolutely ridiculous... every single time I need to sell/buy an item, I have to look up its graph on the mainpage to make sure I'm not 700k poorer the next day. In a single day I can lose 2m without even knowing it, without even doing anything, just because some merchant clan decides to mass dump all their whips. This manipulation is getting out of hand. Before Summer 2008, manipulation clans were basically nothing, but now you can look at almost any item over 500k and see just waves. Waves and waves and waves of the price going up and down riding a surfboard. When a merchant clan decides to [bleep]e an item, then its bye bye to buying that item max price for three days. I'm literally just sitting here in the GE waiting for four items to by max price (karils appears the worse right now).

 

 

 

Now I don't know about you guys, but I really don't like it when my bank value is on a rollercoaster. This mass manipulation is only going to get worse. But that's not the bad part; the bad part is jagex is doing virtually nothing about it. Sure, the forum mods are closing a few merchant clan threads here and there, and the jagex mods come into merchant clans and politely tell them to stop, but the manipulators keep coming. This is exactly how RWT started: it started small and jagex basically ignored it. In no time, however, it grew out of hand and jagex had to take very extreme measures to get rid of it. Not to say the measure they took were bad, it just left a very deep wound that took a year to heal.

 

 

 

And for all those who don't know how manipulator chats work: Leaders buy massive amounts of an item. A few days later, leaders tell their clan to buy that item at max. After a few days when the price has risen quite a bit, leaders all dump without telling clan. Leaders then make massive amounts of money while all clanmembers lose money. Leaders then repeat.

 

 

 

So that is my half-rant... I say half-rant because I really want this to be a discussion too, not just a bunch of people yelling at me in the rants forum.

[bronzewarrior]

I agree, I used to be a clan merchanter and profited greatly.

 

 

 

I solo merched guthan sets until the clans started [bleep]ING'ing with the pieces of the set... now i buy a set for mid price and can't sell it for over mid (even if it has gone up 30k)...

 

 

 

My principal source of income, the g.e, has stopped working for me.

 

 

 

Any item with 10k+ value is a potential item to be [bleep]'ed with... I remember buying out rune crossbows before.

[jettrider]

Well first, I think you should not worry about the value of your bank being on a rollercoaster. I never understood why people are so angry about weapons or armor dropping in price. Unless you were planning to sell it, it doesn't affect you. If it's for personal use, it doesn't affect your cashpile. However I agree that you should look at graphs so you can buy and sell monster drops/better armor at the right time.

 

 

 

Jagex isn't doing anything because they don't believe clan merchanting is strictly against the rules. The only rulebreaking that happens in a typical group merchant deal is the leaders lying to the members about an item's new price. Also, since it's extremely hard to catch group merchants out of the many solo merchants who just look for good deals, it wouldn't be feasible to create a new rule or extend an existing one to cover group manipulation.

 

 

 

Since clan merchanting doesn't affect long-term prices, I don't think it's a pressing issue. I would like to see a 'perfect' GE, where every item sells at minimum and buys at maximum, but that will never happen. I admit it's annoying if you need to buy or sell something fast but again, I never really understood why people don't just hang onto purchases. If you want to sell or buy something just bide your time and look at the graphs now and then.

 

 

 

I think Jagex should put stricter limits on the GE. There's no reason why you need more than 1 of any barrow's armor piece every 4 hours, or why you would need to buy 100 rune items at the same time. Keep the raw materials fairly buyable, but put tight limits on middle/upper costing items.

[Salad]

I agree, I used to be a clan merchanter and profited greatly.

 

 

 

I solo merched guthan sets until the clans started [bleep]'ing with the pieces of the set... now i buy a set for mid price and can't sell it for over mid (even if it has gone up 30k)...

 

 

 

My principal source of income, the g.e, has stopped working for me.

 

 

 

Any item with 10k+ value is a potential item to be [bleep]'ed with... I remember buying out rune crossbows before.

 

 

 

People did dust runes before, any item people use is in danger.

 

 

 

And same for me, I used to solo merch verac sets but now I can't do it anymore. When I finally got cash for my bandos plate and tassets and went to buy I couldn't get for max, FOR MAX. This really piss me off. But if you folow the wave you can make many off maipulators by just buying a good time, using and selling before they dump.

[SirTommy2005]

Anyone rich is guilty of that, unless they hunt a lot.

 

Now that the real merchanting has been taken away, people just look for other ways to gain their cash.

 

Question is, how can Jagex beat this down.

[Bouwzie]

And that is why I have no expensive items, only cash. Although I did just buy 225 glories and 50k pure essence, but I don't think the losses on those will hurt me much.

[Dragonlordjl]

I detest the merchanting clans.

 

 

 

I think Jagex should ban Chessy018 and A C I D Y, ban anybody who is ranked in their CCs and close those CCs, and then close the RSOF marketplace forums. Seriously, these cartels are a cancer of the economy. They operate with a pyramid scheme, so that the high-ranked people in the clans make money hand-over-fist, while **** runs downwards and the scrubs in the clan get ****ed over by the sellouts. The only people who post in the RSOF marketplace forums are price manipulators and the sheeple who are stupid enough to believe them. Seriously. In the age of the GE, marketplace forums are obsolete, so I don't see how anyone can make an argument in favor of keeping them.

 

 

 

After they do those things, which should send a clear message that cartels are NOT appreciated, they need to fix the GE controls. Any items worth over 25m should only require one transaction to trigger the "update mechanism," and any new items created (and for a month after their creation), should also follow that mechanism. Then, the GE needs to update four times a day instead of just once-- so that the prices can gravitate more towards their equilibrium prices.

[bronzewarrior]

Although there is a chance of losing 2m, there is a chance of gaining 2m...

 

 

 

The first time i bought an sgs, I got it for 43.4m...

 

 

 

Sold it for 45.2m after a couple updates.

 

 

 

I tried solo merchanting guthans yesterday: I bought 10 sets at 3.78m...

 

 

 

put in ge at 3.85... DID NOT SELL, had to put in at mid price: 3.766. EPIC FAIL #-o .

 

 

 

I detest the merchanting clans.

 

 

 

I think Jagex should ban Chessy018 and A C I D Y, ban anybody who is ranked in their CCs, and then close the RSOF marketplace forums. Seriously, these cartels are a cancer of the economy. They operate with a pyramid scheme, so that the high-ranked people in the clans make money hand-over-fist, while **** runs downwards and the scrubs in the clan get ****ed over by the sellouts. The only people who post in the RSOF marketplace forums are price manipulators and the sheeple who are stupid enough to believe them. Seriously. In the age of the GE, marketplace forums are obsolete, so I don't see how anyone can make an argument in favor of keeping them.

 

 

 

After they do those things, which should send a clear message that cartels are NOT appreciated, they need to fix the GE controls. Any items worth over 25m should only require one transaction to trigger the "update mechanism," and any new items created (and for a month after their creation), should also follow that mechanism. Then, the GE needs to update four times a day instead of just once-- so that the prices can gravitate more towards their equilibrium prices.

 

 

 

I was ranked in a merchanting clan, doesn't mean you should ban me. I agree that clan merchanting is a pyramid scheme. The leaders of the clans should not be banned, jagex must find some way to screw them up.

[Stewie_Griffen]

I think Jagex should ban Chessy018.

 

 

 

She still owes me 10k and some clockwork toys from one of her parties.

 

 

 

Ban her, Jagex. I could care less about the merchanting but she messed with my heart with clockwork toys.

[Dire_Wolf]

Here's why i never do merchant clans:

 

 

 

1: This is a game, it's about fun and challenges...it is not about the currency or items you got.

 

2: You can't trust people for a operation like that.

 

3: Would i feel good doing this? No, i don't like manipulating market.

 

4: It can lead to problems for quality of game (Take trade limit as an example)..so limits on ge?

 

 

 

Merchant clans is stupid. You are playing the game for the fun of it. You level up, you earn gold from drops.

 

 

 

Why is it so important to earn gold from doing something that's not enjoyable? Let's say what you would do:

 

1. Do clan merchanting, the manuplating is working great for a month.

 

2. You got 500M CASH!

 

3. You buy loads skills, and loads expensive items.

 

4. Game over.

 

 

 

It has already affected me, the merchanting with clans that is...more than two times. Maybe more (without noticing). It did when i tried to buy rares (BGS), and it was not selling because...of merchant clans.

 

 

 

All players who do merchanting with clans are not likely to be added on my friends list. Your ruining the game...

[obfuscator]

I agree that merching clans are unfair, but I honestly can't see what jagex can do to prevent this.

[bronzewarrior]

 

1. Do clan merchanting, the manuplating is working great for a month.

 

2. You got 500M CASH!

 

3. You buy loads skills, and loads expensive items.

 

4. Game over.

 

 

I'm up for that! \ .

[Dire_Wolf]

I agree that merching clans are unfair, but I honestly can't see what jagex can do to prevent this.

 

 

 

Yeah, and if they could...it would affect everyone.

 

 

1. Do clan merchanting, the manuplating is working great for a month.

 

2. You got 500M CASH!

 

3. You buy loads skills, and loads expensive items.

 

4. Game over.

 

 

I'm up for that! \ .

 

 

 

Really? I know how you can do that.

 

 

 

1. Research about how to make a Runescape private server

 

2. Make a private server

 

3. Make a account (You being only player since noone would join private servers)

 

4. Give yourself 500M Cash

 

5. Celebrate it?

 

 

 

You said you were up for that, so go do it...

[Zantareous]

I personally love the manipulations, it has made my skilling so cheap, you just gotta know when to take advantage :)

 

 

 

Obviously this doesn't apply to all skills, but I am fortunate in that sense.

[Zaaps1]

Well first, I think you should not worry about the value of your bank being on a rollercoaster. I never understood why people are so angry about weapons or armor dropping in price. Unless you were planning to sell it, it doesn't affect you. If it's for personal use, it doesn't affect your cashpile. However I agree that you should look at graphs so you can buy and sell monster drops/better armor at the right time.

 

 

 

Jagex isn't doing anything because they don't believe clan merchanting is strictly against the rules. The only rulebreaking that happens in a typical group merchant deal is the leaders lying to the members about an item's new price. Also, since it's extremely hard to catch group merchants out of the many solo merchants who just look for good deals, it wouldn't be feasible to create a new rule or extend an existing one to cover group manipulation.

 

 

 

 

Just a few things I'd like to say.

 

 

 

1) It's called equity. Even though you aren't using it, it's a potential resource. It's like buying a house. It DOES matter if the house price goes up or down, even if you don't plan on selling it. If you ever need the money, and find that your equity is worthless, then you're screwed.

 

 

 

2) I personally think that Clan Manipulation IS cheating. What defines cheating?

 

 

 

cheat: a deception for profit to yourself (Princeton.edu)

 

Cheating in a video game is a process whereby a player of a video game creates an advantage beyond the bounds of normal gameplay, usually to make the game easier. (Wikipedia.org)

 

to elude; deprive of something expected (Dictionary.com)

 

 

 

Basically it's using something that you have that others do not in order to gain profit for yourself. What do manipulators have? Control over the market. They use that to profit THEMSELVES AND ONLY THEMSELVES.

 

 

 

Then let's look at macroing. What do macroers have that others do not? Duh, macro programs. They use them to benefit THEMSELVES AND ONLY THEMSELVES.

 

 

 

No new rule or extension is needed. Imo, it's already breaking a rule. Why should someone who can order people around be able to get huge amounts of money? Even look at the title...price MANIPULATION. Eg, FRAUD.

 

 

 

3) Jagex doesn't have many options at their disposal.

 

 

 

What can they do? Too many people would rant if there were bannings, and anything under giving out bannings would just be ineffective.

[Vezon Dash]

I want to get my fire cape now that I have 70 ranged, but I dont want to lose 200k a day on verac's helm and skirt. I'm pissed off.

[Sir_Kurity]

Meh, price manipulations allrrrite..

 

 

 

Without clan merchants it would be harder to merchant solo because there won't be much change in prices.

 

 

 

Don't try and remove the last form of merchanting away from us.

[SirTommy2005]

The best tool for the merchers' disposal is the G.E graph.

 

Get rid of that and it will be a crictial blow to them because they have to actually look up the item now.

[Dire_Wolf]

Meh, price manipulations allrrrite..

 

 

 

Without clan merchants it would be harder to merchant solo because there won't be much change in prices.

 

 

 

Don't try and remove the last form of merchanting away from us.

 

 

 

That's not merchanting, it's manipulating.

 

 

 

Merching is what soloers do.

[bronzewarrior]

I agree that merching clans are unfair, but I honestly can't see what jagex can do to prevent this.

 

 

 

Yeah, and if they could...it would affect everyone.

 

 

1. Do clan merchanting, the manuplating is working great for a month.

 

2. You got 500M CASH!

 

3. You buy loads skills, and loads expensive items.

 

4. Game over.

 

 

I'm up for that! \ .

 

 

 

Really? I know how you can do that.

 

 

 

1. Research about how to make a Runescape private server

 

2. Make a private server

 

3. Make a account (You being only player since noone would join private servers)

 

4. Give yourself 500M Cash

 

5. Celebrate it?

 

 

 

You said you were up for that, so go do it...

 

I was up for doing it on a real server, nice try though.

 

solo merchanting could still work, saifzman has over 120m from it.

[Great_one]

Meh, price manipulations allrrrite..

 

 

 

Without clan merchants it would be harder to merchant solo because there won't be much change in prices.

 

 

 

Don't try and remove the last form of merchanting away from us.

 

 

 

That's not merchanting, it's manipulating.

 

 

 

Merching is what soloers do.

 

+1 btw, when you say us. do you realize that you mean you and about 500k people with under 10m and about 5k with more than 150m, the 5k are the ranked ones.

[Dire_Wolf]

I agree that merching clans are unfair, but I honestly can't see what jagex can do to prevent this.

 

 

 

Yeah, and if they could...it would affect everyone.

 

 

1. Do clan merchanting, the manuplating is working great for a month.

 

2. You got 500M CASH!

 

3. You buy loads skills, and loads expensive items.

 

4. Game over.

 

 

I'm up for that! \ .

 

 

 

Really? I know how you can do that.

 

 

 

1. Research about how to make a Runescape private server

 

2. Make a private server

 

3. Make a account (You being only player since noone would join private servers)

 

4. Give yourself 500M Cash

 

5. Celebrate it?

 

 

 

You said you were up for that, so go do it...

 

I was up for doing it on a real server, nice try though.

 

solo merchanting could still work, saifzman has over 120m from it.

 

Merchant clans is not merchanting to me.

[Randox]

While I won't deny manipulation is an issue, the 'waves' are a natural phenomenon. Eventualy a price rises enough that a whole bunch of people decide to sell. This causes the price to drop causing more selling and more dropping. Eventualy alot of people think its cheep enough to buy again causing teh price to stall or rise, thus causing more buying and more rising. This continues indefinatly though overal trends of up or down are not uncommon.

[bronzewarrior]

 

Merchant clans is not merchanting to me.

 

cool. /care?

[llcoolguy972]

Well first, I think you should not worry about the value of your bank being on a rollercoaster. I never understood why people are so angry about weapons or armor dropping in price. Unless you were planning to sell it, it doesn't affect you. If it's for personal use, it doesn't affect your cashpile. However I agree that you should look at graphs so you can buy and sell monster drops/better armor at the right time.

 

 

 

Jagex isn't doing anything because they don't believe clan merchanting is strictly against the rules. The only rulebreaking that happens in a typical group merchant deal is the leaders lying to the members about an item's new price. Also, since it's extremely hard to catch group merchants out of the many solo merchants who just look for good deals, it wouldn't be feasible to create a new rule or extend an existing one to cover group manipulation.

 

 

 

 

Just a few things I'd like to say.

 

 

 

1) It's called equity. Even though you aren't using it, it's a potential resource. It's like buying a house. It DOES matter if the house price goes up or down, even if you don't plan on selling it. If you ever need the money, and find that your equity is worthless, then you're screwed.

 

That's not an accurate comparison. The reason businesses/people keep track of their worth is because should they have to pay off a large debt or something like that, their assets can be easily liquidated. An abyssal whip won't get repo'ed. The only reason people keep track of their net worth on games like runescape is just to boost their ego. -.-