Private Military Companies

[Lenticular_J]

Mercenaries. For millenia, soldiers-for-hire have pledged their swords to the highest bidder. But what is their stance in the modern world? In many cases it seems that national militaries get tied down far too easy (for example, the pirate situation in Somalia - the US has been called upon by Somali and Kenyan groups for years to step in), but mercenaries seem to find themselves above the law.

 

 

 

What do you think the status of a private military company is in the modern world? Do they have a place in today's (attempted) long range, sterile warfare? Or should warfare be left to national militaries?

 

 

 

Plenty of PMCs operate today; it's estimated that over 100,000 private soldiers operate in Iraq under the US Department of Defense. British, Canadian, and American special forces lose many of their best troops to payed warfare.

 

 

 

I think that private militaries may be the war-wagers of the future. Many nations are rich, but have weak armies. Blackwater Security is one company that definitely takes the forefront of the PMC world today. Even mercenaries need some sort of regulation, though. The fact that private militaries are becoming large and powerful today, and it's one of the wealthiest economic areas in the world, must be addressed.

 

 

 

So, yeah. Whassup wit ya'll's thoughts?

[deathdrow]

I wanna buy an army!

[Riku3220]

I don't think that private militaries are going to get out of hand and become war mongers of the future, but let's just hope for the best.

[ember3579]

Mercs are basically paying twice (or more) the amount of money for half (or less) of the work that could be done with a national military. They're good for doing things which you both don't mind blowing money on and want some level of plausible deniability if it goes raw. Not a whole lot else. The only type of payment that would work well is a goal-oriented one (pay them based on what they accomplish), but right now we're paying for time. So the mercs over there will do a half-[wagon] job so they stay ON the job for as long as possible, getting the largest amount of payment they can. That's how their business runs; getting paid as much as possible as fast as possible. Want them to put forth some effort? Give them a heavy incentive to use some elbow grease. Otherwise, you just endangered your forces by putting a lazy, potentially traitorous element right next to and behind them.

[Kriegsmier]

I still see a big market for these services today and the money is AMAZING. We're talking 6 figures to do the same work the military is/was doing overseas give or take a few things. They even work stateside. They are just as armed as the military, just in a private company setting. They have the weapons, the armor, the training, the helicopters...good stuff. I think private companies like Xe/Blackwater are a very effective, cost effective, and valuable force to have on your side but at the same time things can get sticky. They arn't bound by any Uniform Code of Military Justice so the rules of engagement are totally different to them. As long as there are regulations going in regarding Rules of Engagement i don't see any problems. Might be that each company has its own that are OK'd by the US defense department. Still could be sticky.

 

 

 

In a situation where the US is spread so thin without much allied support, contractors are much needed relief and help. I really don't blame guys jumping ship to get on with a private company, especially the enlisted guys. They can do the same deployment, but get payed six figures. Even their 10 year military tax free salary can't compare to that, doesn't even come close. Why not seriously?

 

 

 

Though not private, the US hires Ugandans to provide security for US bases in Iraq now. Every base you go to, Ugandans run security.

[magekillr]

Do not support these companies, whatsoever. Blackwater/Xe rob the American people A LOT of money, they are involved in a lot of evil stuff, and they should be done away with.

[Kriegsmier]

How do they rob the American people?

[magekillr]

How do they rob the American people?

 

 

 

Oh, I don't know, charging ridiculous amounts for their services? Being awarded no-bid contracts kind of helps that along, no? I don't support a company that's paid to kill, either. Privatization of this sort of policy is extremely dangerous, and easily taken advantage of. Among other things like these that I don't support are private prisons.

[ember3579]

How do they rob the American people?

 

 

 

 

 

Compare the costs for one merc to one soldier. Then remember that the merc will do anything possible to increase their pay, including half-[wagon] a job which is paid on time spent. Mercs are good for deniable work and small to medium difficulty jobs, but don't delude yourself that they won't cut & run when they think that they are in any real danger.

[Kriegsmier]

I've worked with these folks in Iraq before. I don't think you fully understand these guys. These are former/prior military and law enforcement guys. They don't cut and run. They are not "paid to kill". Most of their jobs over there involve executive protection and convoy escorts. They are not SEALs, they are not force recon, they are not special forces. They don't go kicking in doors and lurking in the shadows to assassinate diplomats.

 

 

 

The government is paying them to do jobs a lot of people don't want to do, or are to scared to do, thats a fact. The military is to busy and stretched to thin to cover everything, they need help.

[Faux]

There's no need for them to cover everything to begin with.

[magekillr]

I stick to Jeremy Scahill on this issue:

 

 

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4369311258

[BlueLancer]

Back before PMC's got a bad reputation for their actions abroad, the colonel at my regiment suggested I could enlist for work at BW USA after finishing a tour in Kosovo. I later found out the 'bootcamp' phase at Blackwater facilities would not only cost about $20,000 dollars, but you wouldn't necessarily even pass the various tests and examinations & there goes your money, and you aren't guaranteed employment.

 

 

 

As a career option for a soldier they are one of the most optimal though if you disregard their reputation; Some contractors can make up to $300-$400 per day ($16 an hour even while you sleep and eat) which is nearly $10k a month when you work full time in a foreign country.

 

 

 

The government is paying them to do jobs a lot of people don't want to do

 

 

 

A lot of private contractor jobs in countries like Iraq are simple things like transporting truck cargo, or even driving a politician from a hotel to an airport. They don't even necessarily wield assault rifles at all during their entire employment phase

[Kriegsmier]

The government is paying them to do jobs a lot of people don't want to do

 

 

 

A lot of private contractor jobs in countries like Iraq are simple things like transporting truck cargo, or even driving a politician from a hotel to an airport. They don't even necessarily wield assault rifles at all during their entire employment phase

 

 

 

Thats what i'm saying. Others Here are making them out to be Ricky Recon out there when thats really not the case. Most people do not want to work over in that environment though no matter what job they do. These guys will. At this point in time, executive protection, (bodyguard and transportation services) are their main jobs.

[Bufoman]

Personally, I have no problems with the PMC's themselves, but the long term situation that requires their employment in such large numbers. We need to raise the pay for enlisted personnel, and compete with these contractors. The fact that our more experienced soldiers are signing up as contractors instead of reenlisting should be taken as a sign that we need reforms in military pay and benefits. How can we ask our soldiers to put their lives on the line for one sixth of what a merc gets for performing much safer work?

[Dizzle229]

I really don't get why people are so concerned about PMC's. They don't belong to any specific group, just the highest bidder. Also, they're not exactly the most reliable bunch. They're main jobs are just escort and security, as has been said a billion times already.

 

 

 

Aw hell, I couldn't resist #-o

 

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[trapical]

Man, a lot of you guys need to stop basing your world view on video games and movies. Mercenaries aren't Samus Aran or the DELTA troops from Crysis, they are armed prison guards and bodyguards. It's not like a shadowy CIA agent pays this secret army 5 million dollars to blow up a Russian powerplant, only to later find our the Russians paid the Mercs 6 million to be double agents and take out an American base.

 

 

 

I also don't see the logic in people disagreeing with Kriegsmier, considering he's been there and seen them. -.-

 

 

 

EDIT: that's a very well done commercial dizzle. Catchy tune, shows you the plot, and is short. Props to their advertising department, whoever they are.

[Kriegsmier]

The fact that our more experienced soldiers are signing up as contractors instead of reenlisting should be taken as a sign that we need reforms in military pay and benefits. How can we ask our soldiers to put their lives on the line for one sixth of what a merc gets for performing much safer work?

 

 

 

TOTAL Truth right here. While we're at it lets look at Teachers and Law Enforcement salaries. All 3 need to be raised for the jobs they do.

[ember3579]

Man, a lot of you guys need to stop basing your world view on video games and movies. Mercenaries aren't Samus Aran or the DELTA troops from Crysis, they are armed prison guards and bodyguards. It's not like a shadowy CIA agent pays this secret army 5 million dollars to blow up a Russian powerplant, only to later find our the Russians paid the Mercs 6 million to be double agents and take out an American base.

 

 

 

I also don't see the logic in people disagreeing with Kriegsmier, considering he's been there and seen them. -.-

 

 

 

EDIT: that's a very well done commercial dizzle. Catchy tune, shows you the plot, and is short. Props to their advertising department, whoever they are.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I stand corrected. HOWEVER, I still don't trust the people running these merc companies, nor do I think that they should be paid that much. The only real reason that I can think of that they were used so much in the last 8 years is that they (the companies' leaders) had some buddies in W's administration. We DO need to pay our soldiers/teachers/etc. a Hell of a lot more than we do, though.

[Kiriyama]

Man, a lot of you guys need to stop basing your world view on video games and movies. Mercenaries aren't Samus Aran or the DELTA troops from Crysis, they are armed prison guards and bodyguards. It's not like a shadowy CIA agent pays this secret army 5 million dollars to blow up a Russian powerplant, only to later find our the Russians paid the Mercs 6 million to be double agents and take out an American base.

 

 

 

I also don't see the logic in people disagreeing with Kriegsmier, considering he's been there and seen them. -.-

 

 

 

EDIT: that's a very well done commercial dizzle. Catchy tune, shows you the plot, and is short. Props to their advertising department, whoever they are.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I stand corrected. HOWEVER, I still don't trust the people running these merc companies, nor do I think that they should be paid that much. The only real reason that I can think of that they were used so much in the last 8 years is that they (the companies' leaders) had some buddies in W's administration. We DO need to pay our soldiers/teachers/etc. a Hell of a lot more than we do, though.

 

 

 

I think they're paid that much in order to keep them working for you, and for it to be a form of "hush money" if they are order to do something that is frowned upon in war.

 

 

 

Honestly, raise your soldiers pay and maybe they'd be more willing to do some of the work these mercs do.

[BlackDawn]

I wonder if I could hire a merc with £50...

[EdgedThesis]

I wonder if I could hire a merc with £50...

 

 

 

Sold.

[magekillr]

I also don't see the logic in people disagreeing with Kriegsmier, considering he's been there and seen them.

 

 

 

And I know plenty of military men, mostly Marines, who have ALSO seen it first hand, and worked with them in Iraq; these same people oppose them. I know how much of a fan of Capitalism you are, Trapical, so it shouldn't be a surprise to see your support for private military companies and jails when it's been proven that they're abusive.

 

 

 

The purpose they serve isn't worth contracting them, and they're bad news. They're unprofessional, lack discipline, all think that they are Rambo, and have a "shoot first, and ask questions never" attitude.

 

 

 

However, I do support infrastructure/reconstruction work by private "armies."

[Nero]

Actually Mercenaries are illegal to hire or fund in any way.

 

 

 

Private security contractors, though? Spend away :lol:

[mmmcannibalism]

They're unprofessional, lack discipline, all think that they are Rambo, and have a "shoot first, and ask questions never" attitude.

 

 

 

thats an absurd overgeneralization