Chasing Perfection: Jagex's Quest for a PvP Utopia

[Zaaps1]

Actually, quest points have some to do with levels, but not as much as you make it look.

 

 

 

It's simple. Someone with max qp isn't likely to be rwt. And since the qp would determine what loot you get, it would simplify the whole thing.

 

 

 

Just make loot brackets that you can receive based on your amount of QP. And your loot can never be more than the total amount of what the person you killed had on them.

 

 

 

So you can't make millions. You know, they could also add a 24 loot cap.

 

 

 

This is exactly what we want to avoid. This is exactly what has landed us in this hole in the first place.

 

 

 

When Jagex ended the old wilderness, RWT was gone. Now their job is to make a replace that is as much like the old wild as possible. Their goal is to rebuild, not to reinforce. Rebuild PvP, not reinforce anti-RWT. We don't need any RWT rules. We don't need restrictions on loot based on QP to "stop" RWT. At this point, you just need to keep it simple. Trying to completely stamp out RWT will end you, well, where we are now.

 

 

 

RWT is one of the inevitables you cannot completely stop. But we've burnt down so much of it, we don't need to work on it anymore. So as long as the new system doesn't INVITE RWT, we can leave this topic alone. No need to restrict it even further, and by doing so, make the system more and more complex.

 

 

 

Simplicity and mirroring is the key. Mirror the old wild as best you can, and keep it as simple as you can.

 

 

 

For example: Keep the auto-skull system, but remove everything else and make everything how it was pre-RWT updates. Now, when someone dies, they lose their most valuable item automatically, and you get whatever is left. In addition, if you are not risking a certain amount (not including your most valuable item), you can only attack other people who risk under that amount. There, 2 simple rules.

 

 

 

So if someone had an AGS and the rest basic pking gear (like Barrows, fury, skillcape, etc.), when he dies, he loses everything. The AGS is permanently gone, but everything else (all the equipment and inventory) is for the pker's taking.

 

 

 

And it does not allow RWT because RWT'ers would have to make AT LEAST double the cash. Say you wanted to transfer 5m. You'd have to buy 2 items worth 5m. One would be lost, and the other is given to the buyer. RWT'ers efficiency is more than halved. They need double the time, but in that extra time they have more chances to get caught.

 

 

 

I'm sure there are holes and that's not a realistic model. But I'm just given an example. 2 simple rules and mirrored as best as possible. That's the ideal system.

[demby123]

[hide=Wall of text]

 

They around 10% of people pvp, right? Yet a good third of the topics now are about pvp.

 

Source? :geek:

 

 

 

I don't remember, but it's been widely accepted that the average number of players who regularly PVP is around 10%.

Widely accepted by the players that dont pvp? ;) TBH I find that non pvpers and pvpers tend to be on other sides of the world if you catch my drift.

 

 

 

This seems like an accurate number. If you recall the number of players that quit over the RWT updates, which was about 6% of the total RS population, then compare it with the rest of the RS population...there's also this poll The Habit of a Lifetime that describes that out of all voting participants, more of them would rather skill than PK.[/hide]The thing is, that could apply to anyone, not just skillers.After all, pking doesnt just come from 1 in every stat, and most pkers are in fact training a skill most of the time.Thats not to say they dont pk or like pvp,right?I in fact voted for skills,because I train mage most of the time FOR pvp.heh shot myself in the foot i guess. #-o :oops:

 

Not too many pvpers I know vote in polls either.I toold my friend to vote for that poll, but nooo. -.-

[jcube69]

i agree with mostly everything u said although i didnt read through all 3 pages so i am not sure if any1 before me posted this

 

 

 

ibelive the old wild and what we see now should be combined...

 

 

 

what am i talking about? in any non pvp world for a goof high lv player the wild is a joke i can go anywhere...reverants? pfft what am i gona get swarmed by 4 mabye 5 knights? that sucks but i can still lv if i got swarmed by 5 pkers id most likly not stand a chance..

 

 

 

my points is instead of having dedicated bounty world y not make it so ever wilderness in every world has pking in abled like old days?

 

 

 

not only would this uncrowd the few bh worlds we hav but it would make the wild a risk again and get rid of those damn reverants that drop NOTHING IF U MANGE TO KILL THEM (i rememberkilling the pker that atkd u it was rare and great u got somthing at least not this 500gp BS)

 

 

 

so yes reinstate how bh wild is to all worlds (with some tweaks of course as u mention killing someone worth 76k and getting 5m......compared to killing soemone with 30m and get 100k is seriously [cabbage] up)

 

 

 

but i do sugest keep like 2-3 pvp worlds there are fun and being able to kill anyone anywhere irathe exilirating (but at least bring back pr item prayer..i can live with the auto skull)

 

 

 

by reinstating all the wild (remove bh crater pl0x) we will have pkers in all world and not a massiv pj/jumping fest like we do now on bounty world....

[Yoko Kurama]

Why? That's a good attitude to have - you sure as hell don't see other MMOs taking the same kind of stand that Jagex has about it.

 

 

 

No we don't--why, might you ask? Simple; it isn't necessary. It should be clear by this point that the RWT problem wasn't anywhere near as severe as Jagex portrayed it to be--propaganda is what it was. It was about control, and it was about their obsession to get rid of 'rule-breakers' (RWT); not because RWT was so grave that it would have bankrupt the company but because it was some strange obsession. Ask yourself this, if the RWT problem was as severe, why aren't other games facing such a situation? Why aren't they taking such severe steps? Take WOW for example; ultimately they are a business too. If they were losing the amount of money Jagex claims it was losing,surely they would react? No, WOW is STILL pretty Laissez-Faire, they don't have any such restrictions. Why? Because they actually make an attempt to listen to their customers and don't loathe them like Jagex does. It is this attitude that sets them apart, even though their CS isn't that much better.

 

 

 

An RWT obsession CAN be a bad thing, and this case it clearly is. When your obsession grows so far that you completely neglect your customers for the sake of combating RWT, that is when you draw the line. Some of these restrictions are completely ridiculous. 4 hours? 5% trade cap? These things have damaged the game in a way that RWT could have never. If it isn't merchants hoarding due to the flawed Grand Exchange System which easily lets them to do, then it is Jagex STILL trying to fix the damage from 2 years ago, or it is Jagex riddling the game with bugs. Why? Because they have no vision, the have reacted with knee-jerk reaction--one after another. Every time they please one group, they upset another, so they try to please that one, then they upset the other and so the cycle continues. It is so rushed, and poor quality, particularly bugs. We still haven't gotten anything significant--aside from minor fixes. It has been 7 months, and still NO major update this year aside from Pking; something the vast majority of RS players don't even partake in. You know what, they want control, they can have it. I will even accept no free market--how about just loosening the trade cap to 10%? That would immediately solve most of the problems with merchants and would allow the supply and demand to reach equilibrium faster--since Jagex refuses to correct prices. But no....Yeah, this attitude of their is complete BS.

 

 

 

As for everyone here being 'Anti-RWT', Tip.it has one for the last several years, arguably the biggest proponent of Jagex--unnecessarily so at times.

[Silver_Corner]

For example: Keep the auto-skull system, but remove everything else and make everything how it was pre-RWT updates. Now, when someone dies, they lose their most valuable item automatically, and you get whatever is left. In addition, if you are not risking a certain amount (not including your most valuable item), you can only attack other people who risk under that amount. There, 2 simple rules.

 

 

 

So if someone had an AGS and the rest basic pking gear (like Barrows, fury, skillcape, etc.), when he dies, he loses everything. The AGS is permanently gone, but everything else (all the equipment and inventory) is for the pker's taking.

 

 

 

And it does not allow RWT because RWT'ers would have to make AT LEAST double the cash. Say you wanted to transfer 5m. You'd have to buy 2 items worth 5m. One would be lost, and the other is given to the buyer. RWT'ers efficiency is more than halved. They need double the time, but in that extra time they have more chances to get caught.

 

 

 

I'm sure there are holes and that's not a realistic model. But I'm just given an example. 2 simple rules and mirrored as best as possible. That's the ideal system.

 

 

 

I know your model isn't really a real example but just stating it would have extreme loop holes, as would any system like it, and could be easily exploited by carrying an expensive item worth 1m and 28 other items worth 900k each. Losing 1m and transferring 25m.

 

 

 

But I get your point, and I agree things need to have simplicity. Like you said, Jagex need to stop gearing their PvP to make everyone gain profit and make it like it was originally intended to do, with just a few simply straightforward rules.

 

 

 

Jagex are forgetting that you don't need to make rules for PvP to force profit being made. Instead players over time will adapt their game strategies to gain profit in PvP.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Or, on a PVP world, no one loses anything and no one gains anything. We just kill each other for fun, experience, and bragging rights. Go make money another way.

 

 

 

Problem solved again. :mrgreen:

[Zaaps1]

Or, on a PVP world, no one loses anything and no one gains anything. We just kill each other for fun, experience, and bragging rights. Go make money another way.

 

 

 

Problem solved again. :mrgreen:

 

 

 

There are already two things that do that. Clan Wars FFA and the Duel Arena.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Or, on a PVP world, no one loses anything and no one gains anything. We just kill each other for fun, experience, and bragging rights. Go make money another way.

 

 

 

Problem solved again. :mrgreen:

 

 

 

There are already two things that do that. Clan Wars FFA and the Duel Arena.

 

 

 

Whatever. Don't care. I just want people to stop complaining and be able to afford stuff on the GE.

[demby123]

Or, on a PVP world, no one loses anything and no one gains anything. We just kill each other for fun, experience, and bragging rights. Go make money another way.

 

 

 

Problem solved again. :mrgreen:

 

 

 

There are already two things that do that. Clan Wars FFA and the Duel Arena.

 

 

 

Whatever. Don't care. I just want people to stop complaining and be able to afford stuff on the GE.

 

Well fix pvp,and the complains will stop. Deal? ;)

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Or, on a PVP world, no one loses anything and no one gains anything. We just kill each other for fun, experience, and bragging rights. Go make money another way.

 

 

 

Problem solved again. :mrgreen:

 

 

 

There are already two things that do that. Clan Wars FFA and the Duel Arena.

 

 

 

Whatever. Don't care. I just want people to stop complaining and be able to afford stuff on the GE.

 

Well fix pvp,and the complains will stop. Deal? ;)

 

 

 

Can't fix PVP. It's like a the Jagex Yugo. You can keep it running, but just barely, and everyone will hate it and complain. Better to throw them both in the junkyard.

[demby123]

Or, on a PVP world, no one loses anything and no one gains anything. We just kill each other for fun, experience, and bragging rights. Go make money another way.

 

 

 

Problem solved again. :mrgreen:

 

 

 

There are already two things that do that. Clan Wars FFA and the Duel Arena.

 

 

 

Whatever. Don't care. I just want people to stop complaining and be able to afford stuff on the GE.

 

Well fix pvp,and the complains will stop. Deal? ;)

 

 

 

Can't fix PVP. It's like a the Jagex Yugo. You can keep it running, but just barely, and everyone will hate it and complain. Better to throw them both in the junkyard.

Redesign the powertrain on that thing and sell the new and improved version.More profit,wider audience to other products as well as that lil yugo. :)

 

 

 

Why do you hate having pvp in the game so badly... :(

[Me_Hate_Libs]

I don't hate the PVPing on the game at all. I hate all the people complaining about the issue with PVP. If it goes, they'll shut up.

 

 

 

Plus, would be nice to have some relatively stable prices on armor, weapons, foots, potions, etc.

[demby123]

[hide=]

I don't hate the PVPing on the game at all. I hate all the people complaining about the issue with PVP. If it goes, they'll shut up.[/hide]Take the ge and force player to player trading,people won't shut up about that,nor will pkers.

 

[hide=]Plus, would be nice to have some relatively stable prices on armor, weapons, foots, potions, etc.

[/hide]Merchanting clans won't leave,and skillers and normal merchants would make less profit.Unless jagex would cater heavily to MHers,but then people would complain about that.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

I don't care for merchanters of any sort because they don't make money. They only aquire other people's wealth by being glorified middle men.

 

 

 

As for skillers, get over it and fight something?

[newge4]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. When PvP worlds first came out, I thought it was a great idea. Then came posts about people getting DFHs from people in full rune. Then came the "PvP trick", and suddenly tons of people are making ridiculous amounts of money. In my opinion, this is where Jagex should have stopped. They should have focused on fixing these issues (and any others that came up) with PvP worlds and not on coming up with other PvP options to appease the masses.

 

Apparently people aren't understanding what I said here. I believe that Jagex should have stopped after PvP worlds and any problems with them should have been bug fixed...not had new content added to band-aid the problem. Jagex should live by the acronym K.I.S.S. : keep it simple stupid.

[dragon246665]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. When PvP worlds first came out, I thought it was a great idea. Then came posts about people getting DFHs from people in full rune. Then came the "PvP trick", and suddenly tons of people are making ridiculous amounts of money. In my opinion, this is where Jagex should have stopped. They should have focused on fixing these issues (and any others that came up) with PvP worlds and not on coming up with other PvP options to appease the masses.

 

Apparently people aren't understanding what I said here. I believe that Jagex should have stopped after PvP worlds and any problems with them should have been bug fixed...not had new content added to band-aid the problem. Jagex should live by the acronym K.I.S.S. : keep it simple stupid.

 

 

 

True, jagex should have stayed with the pvp worlds, they wern't causing too many problems and for a short while all the bloodthirsty pkers seemed happy. But then came the constant patch after patch of random pvp "fixes" and everything started to fall apart, now prices are unstable, people are complaining about unstoppable inflation, messy updates that really don't fix anything, and extra rules that just made pvp into a joke for the 76k-ing masses.

 

 

 

And just think, how many quests have we missed? How many new areas have been kept back? How much has been delayed because of failed attempts to fix a broken system?

[Silver_Corner]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. When PvP worlds first came out, I thought it was a great idea. Then came posts about people getting DFHs from people in full rune. Then came the "PvP trick", and suddenly tons of people are making ridiculous amounts of money. In my opinion, this is where Jagex should have stopped. They should have focused on fixing these issues (and any others that came up) with PvP worlds and not on coming up with other PvP options to appease the masses.

 

Apparently people aren't understanding what I said here. I believe that Jagex should have stopped after PvP worlds and any problems with them should have been bug fixed...not had new content added to band-aid the problem. Jagex should live by the acronym K.I.S.S. : keep it simple stupid.

 

 

 

True, jagex should have stayed with the pvp worlds, they wern't causing too many problems and for a short while all the bloodthirsty pkers seemed happy. But then came the constant patch after patch of random pvp "fixes" and everything started to fall apart, now prices are unstable, people are complaining about unstoppable inflation, messy updates that really don't fix anything, and extra rules that just made pvp into a joke for the 76k-ing masses.

 

 

 

And just think, how many quests have we missed? How many new areas have been kept back? How much has been delayed because of failed attempts to fix a broken system?

 

 

 

Agreed except I believe that PvP went downhill before the PvP "fixes". Really the ball started rolling as soon as Jagex told people what factors generated the drops. Once people got ahold of that information, they started to minipulate drops so they yielded profit. If nobody knew the formula, people would have no idea how to 26k/76k.

 

 

 

It's like telling everyone what the Barrows Loot formula is. It's bound to have someone find a hole and exploit it. The "fixes" were just attempts to stop the ball from rolling, but all they did was slow it down, or make it faster. There was no way to stop it.

[dragon246665]

 

 

 

Agreed except I believe that PvP went downhill before the PvP "fixes". Really the ball started rolling as soon as Jagex told people what factors generated the drops. Once people got ahold of that information, they started to minipulate drops so they yielded profit. If nobody knew the formula, people would have no idea how to 26k/76k.

 

 

 

It's like telling everyone what the Barrows Loot formula is. It's bound to have someone find a hole and exploit it. The "fixes" were just attempts to stop the ball from rolling, but all they did was slow it down, or make it faster. There was no way to stop it.

 

 

 

True, and now that the secret is out there is almost no way to fix it, other than a total overhaul of the pvp system (no jagex! don't listen to option number one!) or a severe nerf of the drops from pvp.

[demby123]

I don't care for merchanters of any sort because they don't make money. They only aquire other people's wealth by being glorified middle men.

 

 

 

As for skillers, get over it and fight something?

 

So what player faction do you care about. :lol:

[n64jive]

I don't care for merchanters of any sort because they don't make money. They only aquire other people's wealth by being glorified middle men.

 

 

 

As for skillers, get over it and fight something?

 

So what player faction do you care about. :lol:

 

 

 

obviously the nonconformist one. You should join us....

 

 

 

sorry for that bad pun...had to throw it out there..

[demby123]

I don't care for merchanters of any sort because they don't make money. They only aquire other people's wealth by being glorified middle men.

 

 

 

As for skillers, get over it and fight something?

 

So what player faction do you care about. :lol:

 

 

 

obviously the nonconformist one. You should join us....

 

 

 

sorry for that bad pun...had to throw it out there..

 

:?:

[aspeeder]

I don't care for merchanters of any sort because they don't make money. They only aquire other people's wealth by being glorified middle men.

 

 

 

As for skillers, get over it and fight something?

 

So what player faction do you care about. :lol:

 

 

 

obviously the nonconformist one. You should join us....

 

 

 

sorry for that bad pun...had to throw it out there..

 

:?:

 

Join the people who try to distinguish themselves from everyone else...its not funny if you have to explain it :P .

 

OT: Meh is all I can say, if nuking 26king was +1 Bounty Worlds, then we need a ****ing world destroying laser cannon.

[quelmotz]

Very well written rant.

 

 

 

This is clearly up to the standard of the tip.it times, if not better. If you see this, I think you should submit it to the tip.it times staff/whatever. It deserves it, honestly.

 

 

 

I'll just say this here. The whole thing isn't entirely Jagex's fault. Its stupid to try and please everyone, but players who rant and spam are probably one of the causes of this long chain of fluffy PvP updates.

[Racheya]

Very well written rant.

 

 

 

This is clearly up to the standard of the tip.it times, if not better. If you see this, I think you should submit it to the tip.it times staff/whatever. It deserves it, honestly.

 

 

 

I'll just say this here. The whole thing isn't entirely Jagex's fault. Its stupid to try and please everyone, but players who rant and spam are probably one of the causes of this long chain of fluffy PvP updates.

 

Yeah that frustrates me. Once a week I'll come across a lengthy post that I could easily see as being a Times article. :lol: Serious guys, if you ever write out an idea for a thread and it turns up pretty long, I bet it could easily be made into a Tip.It Times article. PM it to us! If it doesn't get used as an article you can turn it into a thread...

[Zaaps1]

Very well written rant.

 

 

 

This is clearly up to the standard of the tip.it times, if not better. If you see this, I think you should submit it to the tip.it times staff/whatever. It deserves it, honestly.

 

 

 

I'll just say this here. The whole thing isn't entirely Jagex's fault. Its stupid to try and please everyone, but players who rant and spam are probably one of the causes of this long chain of fluffy PvP updates.

 

Yeah that frustrates me. Once a week I'll come across a lengthy post that I could easily see as being a Times article. :lol: Serious guys, if you ever write out an idea for a thread and it turns up pretty long, I bet it could easily be made into a Tip.It Times article. PM it to us! If it doesn't get used as an article you can turn it into a thread...

 

 

 

I was considering it, but I guess it's too late? It would lose its touch, I think.