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Chasing Perfection: Jagex's Quest for a PvP Utopia

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They should just end the whole amg we must stop rwt attitude tbh

 

Most RWTers(from before) bot with accounts and then trade them off, in which case jagex can add a restriction allowing people to pvp only after x amount of days of playing, and considering how Jagex glorifies their new bot-detecting methods, it wouldn't be as much of a problem as it was in the past.

 

I'm not saying switch back to old wilderness, but at least switch to something like the old BH where lvl 3 botters can't sell their 43543543643634 macro'd yew logs as easily.

 

Sure, some RWTers can get away with it, but I think some getting away is better than almost everyone profiting from some system that can land you millions with ease. Hell, with the new +1 worlds, almost everyone is a 1-itemer, I got bored once, took out my d claws for fun, got a target (which as I said, are mostly 1-itemers, yes I'm one of them :[ ), and got 660k at 0 ep

 

And before anyone goes "It's not fair to players who play fairly and don't RWT", keep in mind accounts are easily RWT'able

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I think, since the new pvp system is so mini-game esque, the new artifacts that are dropped should be exchanged for a type of non tradeable pvp currency, like castlewars tickets or void points. These could be spent on xp or non tradeable weapons and armor, heck Jagex could make brawlers purchaseable with bounty credit along with the special pvp weapons/armor. It would stop the rampant inflation and pvp goers could still get item drops.


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I think, since the new pvp system is so mini-game esque, the new artifacts that are dropped should be exchanged for a type of non tradeable pvp currency, like castlewars tickets or void points. These could be spent on xp or non tradeable weapons and armor, heck Jagex could make brawlers purchaseable with bounty credit along with the special pvp weapons/armor. It would stop the rampant inflation and pvp goers could still get item drops.

 

 

 

The problem is that the RS economy is so intertwined with pking just because skilling produces items that should be consumed and disappear with PVP. Monster killing and quests use up some items but the bulk of items are used up whie pvping. While there was limited PVP the economy for player produced goods crashed.

 

 

 

If PVP loot stayed only on PVP worlds, the complaints would swing the other way about the economy everyone would complain that prices were too low, and no one would sell anything that they produce they'd start hoarding if the prices crashed.

 

 

 

Right now even though there is inflation it's still possible to buy items because another player may decide to fish or woodcut because the profits are good. If prices fell again who would supply the goods needed?

 

 

 

RS needs pvp, but the generous drops are unbalancing the game. Like the OP said though, how much longer will the tweaks to pvp continue? It's endless, there will never be a perfect system. Even pre-trade restriction wildy wasn't perfect, but it worked well overall and everyone was used to it flaws and all and there was balance between pkers and skillers.

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there will never be a pvp utopia, mainly because everyone has a different vision of it. mine is no rules or "honour" and no 26king, and good drops for those who fight well, but that wouldnt be ideal for others because of their pking preferences, and as such there can not be a pvp "utopia"


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inb4tl;dr

 

 

 

Good post, though, I agree with everything you said. Arrogance is a HUGE issue with not just the PvP updates but MOST updates. Countless times in the past has Jagex taken ideas from players and warped them to fit their own agendas, just because they couldn't bear to create something that wasn't of their own ingenuity. With the bug that cost one poor guy 350m, Jagex apologized and then had the gall to say "I gave you an apology, and that doesn't happen very often."

 

 

 

Imo, the best solution to the PvP update is to keep the auto-skull, but remove the "no protect item" thing on all worlds, and make it where you cannot attack another player (retaliations are an exception) unless you are risking 75k aside from your most expensive item (aka the one you would protect). This would enable one-iteming, but one itemers would not be "mosquitoes" but instead easy prey. If they wanted to one-item, they'd have to risk 75k and therefore they'd quickly bankrupt themselves by dying so easily. The biggest issue with one-itemers in the past has been that they waste your supplies, but when you kill them you get nothing and they lose nothing. This would fix that.

 

the idea of not being able to attack unless risking 75k is awesome for fixing the 1 itemers but i doubt many people would be happy.


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there will never be a pvp utopia, mainly because everyone has a different vision of it. mine is no rules or "honour" and no 26king, and good drops for those who fight well, but that wouldnt be ideal for others because of their pking preferences, and as such there can not be a pvp "utopia"

 

 

 

Exactly. And that is what Jagex is trying to do. They continuously update PvP attempting to make it better, but they always end up doing something wrong. I may sound like another anti-Jagex ranter there, but that's not Jagex's fault for messing up their updates. They can't help it. When they try to please everyone, it's inevitable that they will mess up. So what needs to happen is Jagex understand what we DO need and what we DON'T need. Part of doing so will be making people unhappy, but it's necessary for a real fix to be achieved.

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+1

 

 

 

Other than I'm a firm beleiver of, you get what your oponent drops. Meh, rsclassic was a good era.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, I think jagex listened to too many people WHO DON'T PK but wanted to chip in on there mouth full. -.-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ahh dear, back when the pirate hut in deep wildy was good training, an exciting too. <3:(I loved rs back in 01-03)


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Nice read (better then some of the Tip.it articles tbh).

 

 

 

I think the best option would be to go back to the drawing board.

 

 

 

Like you said simplicity was the key, back in those days you could PK someone and know you got a fair share of what they where holding.


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Also, I think jagex listened to too many people WHO DON'T PK but wanted to chip in on there mouth full. -.-

 

 

 

 

Yes, that's another major problem. Jagex is taking the advice of people who don't necessarily care about the system.

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Well, if you want a utopia, how about this?

 

 

 

It is around 10% of people who pvp, right? Yet a good third of the topics now are about pvp. And this 10% of players, and by trying to appease them, has effectively screwed the other 90% just trying to play the game.

 

 

 

Get rid of pvp and tell the kids to go play WoW.

 

 

 

Problem solved. :geek:


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They around 10% of people pvp, right? Yet a good third of the topics now are about pvp.

 

Source? :geek:


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They around 10% of people pvp, right? Yet a good third of the topics now are about pvp.

 

Source? :geek:

 

 

 

I don't remember, but it's been widely accepted that the average number of players who regularly PVP is around 10%.


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They around 10% of people pvp, right? Yet a good third of the topics now are about pvp.

 

Source? :geek:

 

 

 

I don't remember, but it's been widely accepted that the average number of players who regularly PVP is around 10%.

Widely accepted by the players that dont pvp? ;) TBH I find that non pvpers and pvpers tend to be on other sides of the world if you catch my drift.

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My personal thoughts are that you can only recieve as much as the opponent is risking.

 

If you get the same,RWT. If less,thats less reward for an already high risk.

 

 

 

[hide=my response]Well currently you get more reward for less risk which is better for rwt than less reward high risk and is more fair. Also I was suggesting maximum of the opponent's risk. Not the same as that would be back to the beginning :lol:[/hide]

 

Also that the person you kill cannot of been on your friends list in the past 48 hours. (This may end DM's, but as you have stated, not everyone can be satisfied.)

 

Clan chats could be a loophole.

 

 

 

[hide=my response]Then disallow clan chats to :lol:[/hide]


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Fine, whatever. Point is, the amount of people regularly PVPing is a slim majority compared to the amount of regular players, and they're damn PVPing is screwing up stuff for the rest of us.

 

 

 

So just scratch the whole thing, have RS carve out a niche as a non-pvp game, and let the PVPers move on to WoW or Guild Wars.


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My personal thoughts are that you can only recieve as much as the opponent is risking.

 

If you get the same,RWT. If less,thats less reward for an already high risk.

 

 

 

[hide=my response]Well currently you get more reward for less risk which is better for rwt than less reward high risk and is more fair. Also I was suggesting maximum of the opponent's risk. Not the same as that would be back to the beginning :lol:[/hide]

 

Also that the person you kill cannot of been on your friends list in the past 48 hours. (This may end DM's, but as you have stated, not everyone can be satisfied.)

 

Clan chats could be a loophole.

 

 

 

[hide=my response]Then disallow clan chats to :lol:[/hide][hide=and mine]Trick though IRC,MSN,anyone?;)[/hide]


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Fine, whatever. Point is, the amount of people regularly PVPing is a slim majority compared to the amount of regular players, and they're damn PVPing is screwing up stuff for the rest of us.

 

 

 

So just scratch the whole thing, have RS carve out a niche as a non-pvp game, and let the PVPers move on to WoW or Guild Wars.

The main thing thing that sets runescape apart,if im not mistaken, is the ability to play the game how you want to, and pvping is just another one of the major activity people like to do in this game.And more people pvp than you think. ;)

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Because you can clearly play it how you want it now right? Except for the 1200 rules they now have for it.

 

 

 

And as far as regular PVPers go, no I don't think there is that many. Only 26king made it popular. It was otherwise, low.


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I agree with a lot of what you are saying. When PvP worlds first came out, I thought it was a great idea. Then came posts about people getting DFHs from people in full rune. Then came the "PvP trick", and suddenly tons of people are making ridiculous amounts of money. In my opinion, this is where Jagex should have stopped. They should have focused on fixing these issues (and any others that came up) with PvP worlds and not on coming up with other PvP options to appease the masses.


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I agree with a lot of what you are saying. When PvP worlds first came out, I thought it was a great idea. Then came posts about people getting DFHs from people in full rune. Then came the "PvP trick", and suddenly tons of people are making ridiculous amounts of money. In my opinion, this is where Jagex should have stopped. They should have focused on fixing these issues (and any others that came up) with PvP worlds and not on coming up with other PvP options to appease the masses.

 

 

 

If they wanted to seriously solve it, your drops values are based on how many QP you have. If you're a pure, you can still PVP, you just don't make any cash.

 

 

 

Problem solved.


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I agree with a lot of what you are saying. When PvP worlds first came out, I thought it was a great idea. Then came posts about people getting DFHs from people in full rune. Then came the "PvP trick", and suddenly tons of people are making ridiculous amounts of money. In my opinion, this is where Jagex should have stopped. They should have focused on fixing these issues (and any others that came up) with PvP worlds and not on coming up with other PvP options to appease the masses.

 

 

 

If they wanted to seriously solve it, your drops values are based on how many QP you have. If you're a pure, you can still PVP, you just don't make any cash.

 

 

 

Problem solved.

 

 

 

I have max QP and I have been tricking for a little bit now, so I should deserve to still make millions while lower players make nothing?

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Actually, quest points have some to do with levels, but not as much as you make it look.

 

 

 

It's simple. Someone with max qp isn't likely to be rwt. And since the qp would determine what loot you get, it would simplify the whole thing.

 

 

 

Just make loot brackets that you can receive based on your amount of QP. And your loot can never be more than the total amount of what the person you killed had on them.

 

 

 

So you can't make millions. You know, they could also add a 24 loot cap.


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Actually, quest points have some to do with levels, but not as much as you make it look.

 

 

 

It's simple. Someone with max qp isn't likely to be rwt. And since the qp would determine what loot you get, it would simplify the whole thing.

 

 

 

Just make loot brackets that you can receive based on your amount of QP. And your loot can never be more than the total amount of what the person you killed had on them.

 

 

 

So you can't make millions. You know, they could also add a 24 loot cap.

 

Its been said by Jmods on the "no trade limit for 200+qp"thread on rsof that RWTers would still quest enough to get multiple quest capers and still sell gold succesfully.Using qp can be abused just like any other method they'll come up with.


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Then scale back how much you can make off it.

 

 

 

No screw it. Do what I said earlier.

 

 

 

Junk PVP! :evil:


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While I do agree with your post, I must disagree with the whole "fighting RWT instead of pleasing players" mindset. They can kill RWT in their own game and keep players pacified, but they haven't stumbled across the magic formula, either. It's true when you said that PvP was simple - kill or be killed - and these new rules and all that stuff totally messed that up. But, there's a way to recover from it - you don't have to nuke everything because it's "failed", because it really hasn't yet. Also, I don't quite understand why everyone's so anti-'anti-RWT' anyways - getting rid of that is a good thing, and the systems needed to replace what you players enjoyed from it (namely getting what they were wearing) just need to be toned down to about 10% of what they are now.

 

 

 

When I said to completely thrash everything in the works, I did not mean to destroy it and never use it again. Far from it. I simply mean that Jagex needs to clear its mind and take a really good look. Jagex needs to understand that the simplest and most elegant solution is. Once they understand that, then they can add whatever they need to (but I stress NEED, the bare minimum is all that is necessary), and many of these may in fact be concepts they've used in the past two years (EP for example, has a very viable future, but not in its current form).

 

 

 

It's true that it hasn't 100% failed yet, but it's on its way. Less and less people are happy with all of these PvP updates. Frankly, I'm tired of them. Jagex dug its own grave when they strayed from their real goal. The only way they can solve this problem is by going back to that bare basic goal and working from that, and only that.

 

 

 

Well I might have misunderstood you, and in this vein I do agree. The only problem is that simplicity leads to predictability, which leads to RWT. Brianite pointed out here that if you keep a system in which you consistently get a percentage of their drops, RWT can resurface again, totally nullifying years of updates. Keeping things simple isn't a viable option, but there are ways to retool the system as it stands.

 

 

 

1) Brawlers become tradable, thus giving both skillers and PvPers something valuable

 

2) PvP armors dropped at the same rate as icons/statuettes, and icons/statuettes reduced to 5-10% of their current value

 

3) Every aspect used to calculate drops is hidden instead of made public, as to discourage 26King or any other kind of system manipulation

 

 

 

Again, these are ideas, but I honestly think that the system cannot be taken back to a "simpler" time. I'll blame RWT for wrecking that. And as far as people being less and less satisfied with these updates, you're damn right I'm getting dissatisfied - I'm no PKer, but it seems like the overspoken minority is getting more or less 2 years of attention, whereas high levels have been demanding more content as well...Even I know I'll never take part in PKing (since I can't be bothered to anymore with my pures, and I don't want to do it in clans anymore), not in the next ten years, and they can't seem to get enough updates...

 

 

 

They should just end the whole amg we must stop rwt attitude tbh

 

 

 

Why? That's a good attitude to have - you sure as hell don't see other MMOs taking the same kind of stand that Jagex has about it.

 

 

 

They around 10% of people pvp, right? Yet a good third of the topics now are about pvp.

 

Source? :geek:

 

 

 

I don't remember, but it's been widely accepted that the average number of players who regularly PVP is around 10%.

Widely accepted by the players that dont pvp? ;) TBH I find that non pvpers and pvpers tend to be on other sides of the world if you catch my drift.

 

 

 

This seems like an accurate number. If you recall the number of players that quit over the RWT updates, which was about 6% of the total RS population, then compare it with the rest of the RS population...there's also this poll The Habit of a Lifetime that describes that out of all voting participants, more of them would rather skill than PK.

 

 

 

[EDIT]

 

 

 

Then scale back how much you can make off it.

 

 

 

No screw it. Do what I said earlier.

 

 

 

Junk PVP! :evil:

 

 

 

I swear to God, if they nuke Stealing Creation, there will be Hell to pay.


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