You guys make it sound like they live like kings. "Omg they get so much free money every week because they are aboriginals its so unfair durf durf durf". Do you honestly think these people enjoy their lives? I'm sure they consider themselves failures every morning, responsible for losing thousands of years of aboriginal history. I mean, if they did enjoy their lives, why would they be sniffing gasoline, drinking alcohol and smoking weed?

 

 

 

White people came in and essentially had a mass genocide century against the aboriginals. Another few centuries later, every white person is whining because aboriginals have not met the standards of their society yet. However, they never has any established businesses or anything that has any worth in todays society. All they had was their land, and now it's gone. When you chop off a dog's leg, do you also whine when it has trouble walking? It must be a useless dog if it hasn't grown back yet...

I think you missed the point bro.

Yeh fair enough we came in and took their land, I'd be pissed off too. But if someone took my land 200 years ago then really I would have moved on. They can't keep on feeling sorry for themselves because of something that happened 200odd years ago.

 

 

 

Do I honestly think they enjoy their lives? No I don't. But they don't want anything more, they are happy doing what they have

 

 

 

Do I wake up depressed because my ancestors were criminals? Nope. It was centuries ago, and if most white people can change from being convicts into running a country then surely they can change.

Firstly, smoking and drinking doesn't imply that you don't enjoy life. Secondly, that was a bad analogy. No one chopped off their legs. Their ancestors - not them - were the ones who suffered. You can get upset about it, but don't blame the current generation. People need to realize you can't live in the [bleep]ing past. I've had ancestors who were harassed by other races. Does this mean it's okay for me to expect something out of the groups of people who wronged my ancestors? No, that would be racist. Oh wait - it wouldn't, because racism is a word used to cater to society's double standards.

If you don't want to blame invading white people for current lazyness of aboriginals - okay. But I do not believe aboriginals simply chose not to work. There must be a problem trying to integrate themselves into the system, so they have trouble getting regular jobs.

 

 

 

Thinking an entire [bleep]ing generation chooses to [bleep] and moan and waste their lives is so ignorant I feel like :wall: . If they were presented the opportunity to work hard to support their family, i'm confident to say they would. You guys, however, think they'd rather sit back and do drugs.

 

 

 

Off to work, back in 9 hours :wall:

You guys, however, think they'd rather sit back and do drugs.

 

 

 

 

Plus if that attitude is as prevailent in real life as it appears to be on these forums, it is more than likely that they'll struggle to get jobs that they are capable of doing and willing to do anyway.

I'm from Australia.

 

Near my mums work there was a break in to the local Pub/Inn.

 

 

 

Aboriginal people broke into it.

 

No money was stolen.

 

All that was stolen was booze.

 

 

 

You tell me, Fast?

 

If they really wanted to support their families, they could get a near $400 p/week income from Centrelink and push trolleys around shopping centres for an extra $200 or so. But they dont.

 

There is literally no requirements to push trolleys in my neighbourhood. Even my psycho cousin could get a job pushing trolleys. And knowing him he would pick up and throw a trolley at someone if they annoyed him the slightest bit.

 

 

 

You guys, however, think they'd rather sit back and do drugs.

 

 

 

 

Plus if that attitude is as prevailent in real life as it appears to be on these forums, it is more than likely that they'll struggle to get jobs that they are capable of doing and willing to do anyway.

 

 

 

Say they are in their mid 30s. 20 years ago Aboriginals were "treated equally" but they didnt want to take the chance of an education.

 

I remember watching a video of an Aboriginal girl around 19 telling a story how she was actually insulted because she did work in school unlike the aboriginal kids around her.

 

They apparently called her "coconut" as in, black on the outside, and white on the inside... Because she wanted an education.

 

 

 

I really want Adrenal, Zonor and Mage to post

 

:lol:

If you don't want to blame invading white people for current lazyness of aboriginals - okay. But I do not believe aboriginals simply chose not to work. There must be a problem trying to integrate themselves into the system, so they have trouble getting regular jobs.

 

 

 

Thinking an entire [bleep] generation chooses to [bleep] and moan and waste their lives is so ignorant I feel like :wall: . If they were presented the opportunity to work hard to support their family, i'm confident to say they would. You guys, however, think they'd rather sit back and do drugs.

 

 

 

Off to work, back in 9 hours :wall:

 

 

 

But they are given ample opportunity to get jobs. Recently, the FOG's (Former Origin Greats) came to my school and had a talk with us. They said that there was going to be a big convention that we can go to with over 200 jobs there waiting. I got all excited because I thought there might be some apprenticeships there and it would so easy to walk in and get a job like that. Turns out it was for Aboriginals only. Why do they need to be given a job before they would want to work?

 

 

 

 

 

Of course no one wants to just sit around and do nothing with their lives, but if they get everything handed to them (so to speak), why would you want to get a job?

It's true.

 

 

 

Fine that all these injustices have been comitted against them in the past, and it is truly horrible but the aboriginal people need now to take responsibility for their own actions and their own future. They must now rely on themselves rather than anyone else. I have noticed this trend -- and the only solution is to be self motivated and self sufficent.

 

 

 

Stop bludging and take control.

If you don't want to blame invading white people for current lazyness of aboriginals - okay. But I do not believe aboriginals simply chose not to work. There must be a problem trying to integrate themselves into the system, so they have trouble getting regular jobs.

 

 

 

Thinking an entire [bleep] generation chooses to [bleep] and moan and waste their lives is so ignorant I feel like :wall: . If they were presented the opportunity to work hard to support their family, i'm confident to say they would. You guys, however, think they'd rather sit back and do drugs.

 

 

 

Off to work, back in 9 hours :wall:

 

I have been to towns where people with black skin do not go to school, they do not get jobs. The only people who get jobs there are 'white folk'. The only blacks who get jobs there are Christians, so they don't drink and smoke all day. The parents do what they want all day and basically force their kids out of the house all day, so the kids walk out and do stuff. There are kids who are addicted to nicotine by 6, and they get drunk on weekends. They like it how it is, they never have to work and they don't want to.

 

 

 

I really hate how the Aboriginals get spoon fed, there is all these ads about helping them get an education, but I get told to man the [bleep] up and get my own money. If I am told to stfu because of what happened I'll just retaliate with the point that they didn't do the suffering and I wasn't the one killing them. I finish what I start, so be glad I don't go round killing people of a different race.

 

 

 

If I sound racist then get over it, I hate everyone.

It's true.

 

 

 

Fine that all these injustices have been comitted against them in the past, and it is truly horrible but the aboriginal people need now to take responsibility for their own actions and their own future. They must now rely on themselves rather than anyone else. I have noticed this trend -- and the only solution is to be self motivated and self sufficent.

 

 

 

Stop bludging and take control.

 

 

 

Yeah.

 

There is alot of unemployment in the world. But the way these guys treat it and receive allowances is just a load of crap.

How ate they aboriginies? I thought aboriginies lived in the jungle and wore rags and painted their faces. :?

How ate they aboriginies? I thought aboriginies lived in the jungle and wore rags and painted their faces. :?

 

 

 

I'll admit.

 

That was kinda funny..

 

 

 

:|

How ate they aboriginies? I thought aboriginies lived in the jungle and wore rags and painted their faces. :?

 

 

 

Okay seriously, if Ray sounded a little racist, then you are the biggest [bleep]in' racist on the planet.

 

 

 

You are not being funny with that remark, you're just being a douche.

I really want Adrenal, Zonor and Mage to post

 

:lol:

 

You make it sound like I'm part of some TIF version of Godwin's Law.

 

 

 

Anyway.

 

 

 

The big issue with the indigenous population is that they have an ingrained home culture which doesn't necessarily agree with that of the wider Australian society. The older generation of indigenous people have difficulty appreciating the benefits of education and social responsibility, and thus are unable to pass on those values to their children. Some indigenous children take steps to take control of their own lives, but the instability of home life makes it near-impossible for them to do well in school. From conversations with indigenous high school students, I can say that while the majority of them tend to fit the stereotype that their parents' generation has created for them, there are a few who exercise their ability to develop their potential as educated and responsible members of society.

 

 

 

However, the fact that the students I have spoken to were from a school designated by the NSW Department of Education and Training as "hard to staff" (that is, disadvantaged and rife with problems that very few teachers want to work there) is telling. The vast majority of indigenous children are in such schools, largely as a result of problems at home. Either their parents' activities prevent them from achieving academically, or the parents actively prevent them from said.

 

 

 

These problems are difficult to deal with because, as has been said, it's far too easy for the less reasonable members of the indigenous community to pull the race card the moment the government attempts to "interfere" with their culture. Nor does it help that our education system itself helps to reinforce a victim culture among indigenous people, while giving students of non-indigenous background the impression (through curricula that emphasis "valuing", "appreciation" and "celebration" of indigenous cultures) that to criticise any aspect of indigenous culture is a cardinal sin. In a country that claims to hold egalitarian values dear to heart and celebrates the idea of a "fair go", I think we may have really dropped the ball on the issue of indigenous equity.

 

 

 

I am somewhat less hesitant to voice my opinions on this topic here because the Faculty at the university frowns on students who do not subscribe to the philosophy that the dignity of minority cultures is infallible and sacrosanct.

 

 

 

The Rudd government made some headway with the great spectacle of the Apology, but it doesn't seem to have done enough to follow up on that. The PM has essentially said, "sorry for everything our ancestors did to your ancestors; now get over it and do something useful," however, this message doesn't seem to have been received, or the second part has been largely ignored by both the indigenous community at large as well as by bleeding heart policy makers.

Obviously I'm not Australian, but I think your problem is that you're comparing them to how they fit into your/Western society. Lets look at all the things Aboriginal Australia didn't have: writing, centralized governments, metal tools and weapons, domesticated animals for transport and food. So while New Zealand and Australia were still basically

 

living in the stone age, the West had developed all these things. So it was not a surprise that the West was able to conquer Australia.

 

So there was a huge difference in lifestyles between the two, but that doesn't mean the one of these is smarter than the other. How is a industrialized civilization better than a hunter-gatherer one? Sure the West has/had better medical care, longer life spans, but we also have less social support from relatives.

 

So even though Aboriginals tend to perform poorly at tasks that Westerners have been trained to perform since childhood while they have not. But imagine how stupid a westerner might have looked trying to do a task that aboriginals have done for 40,000 years? I.e. tracking animals, surviving off the land etc. (Obviously that's not possible today with so much of their culture gone). Remember how much help the first Americans needed from the primitive Indians? Hell, aboriginals could even be smarter than us, with natural selection probably much stronger with so few of them left, and they used to have a much more active lifestyle than someone from an industrialized society.

 

 

 

On another note, you should read Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond.

Obviously I'm not Australian, but I think your problem is that you're comparing them to how they fit into your/Western society. Lets look at all the things Aboriginal Australia didn't have: writing, centralized governments, metal tools and weapons, domesticated animals for transport and food. So while New Zealand and Australia were still basically

 

living in the stone age, the West had developed all these things. So it was not a surprise that the West was able to conquer Australia.

 

So there was a huge difference in lifestyles between the two, but that doesn't mean the one of these is smarter than the other. How is a industrialized civilization better than a hunter-gatherer one? Sure the West has/had better medical care, longer life spans, but we also have less social support from relatives.

 

So even though Aboriginals tend to perform poorly at tasks that Westerners have been trained to perform since childhood while they have not. But imagine how stupid a westerner might have looked trying to do a task that aboriginals have done for 40,000 years? I.e. tracking animals, surviving off the land etc. (Obviously that's not possible today with so much of their culture gone). Remember how much help the first Americans needed from the primitive Indians? Hell, aboriginals could even be smarter than us, with natural selection probably much stronger with so few of them left, and they used to have a much more active lifestyle than someone from an industrialized society.

 

 

 

On another note, you should read Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond.

 

Diamond has some very good anthropological ideas, but they don't really pertain to how indigenous peoples integrate into modern societies.

 

 

 

However well indigenous people can perform tasks which their culture prepares them for is irrelevant (even discounting the fact that the majority of indigenous people you meet in Sydney wouldn't have the first clue about bushcraft). What matters is that they now live as part of a Western nation with predominantly Western values, and they reap the benefits of that. We don't know if they would be happier if they remained a hunter-gatherer society. Cultural relativism is a singularly useless idea when you consider that these people have already adapted to urban lifestyles and desire the benefits of Western civilisation, as we all do, but a great many of them refuse to uphold their end of the social bargain.

 

 

 

At this point, they have already milked history for all it's worth, and then some.

 

Diamond has some very good anthropological ideas, but they don't really pertain to how indigenous peoples integrate into modern societies.

 

I know I was off topic...But you still have the mindset that they had to integrate, and as they were not able to act like Westerners as Westerners, that they most be less of a person.

 

 

 

What matters is that they now live as part of a Western nation with predominantly Western values, and they reap the benefits of that.

 

But who says there's benefits from living in a western Civilization.

 

 

 

We don't know if they would be happier if they remained a hunter-gatherer society.

 

Nor do they have a choice now...

 

 

 

Cultural relativism is a singularly useless idea when you consider that these people have already adapted to urban lifestyles and desire the benefits of Western civilisation, as we all do, but a great many of them refuse to uphold their end of the social bargain.

 

But isn't the whole point of this thread that they haven't adapted to urban lifestyle and don't desire the "benefits" of western civilization: schools, jobs etc.

 

 

 

At this point, they have already milked history for all it's worth, and then some.

 

 

 

Justified by social darwinism we have already convinced ourselves that Western civilization must be better, and in turn conquered anyone we deemed inferior. Obviously we can't go back now, nor could these two civilizations coexist. Yet it doesn't mean that since was able to capture the other that it is better. For example, lets say the whole point of our existence is happiness. Can you argue that someone in a Western Civilization is happier than someone in a hunter-gather based one?

 

The problem is not that they can't integrate into our society, but our mindset that they, whether or not they wanted to, should be forced to integrate.

I really want Adrenal, Zonor and Mage to post

 

:lol:

 

You make it sound like I'm part of some TIF version of Godwin's Law.

 

[bleep]es don't know 'bout my kangaroos and Tooheys New.

 

 

 

I really hate the NSW DET, their method for keeping the internet 'safe' is pointless, as far as I know I can't notify them they have wrongly blocked items, and a whitelist always fails. I will always get my hands on a proxy that works. Plus you can play RuneScape, Steam and WoW at Tafe.

 

 

 

I am somewhat less hesitant to voice my opinions on this topic here because the Faculty at the university frowns on students who do not subscribe to the philosophy that the dignity of minority cultures is infallible and sacrosanct.

 

Wow, Tafe is much more relaxed then, my friends have been racist and sexist with not even a yelling. One guy was editing a pic of the KFC guy so it looked like he was wearing a KKK robe and the teacher was like "Oh, now that's naughty" and that was it. :?

It's all racial. I hate races. Not to mention religions. It would be better if we were all the same looking and thinking.

 

 

But "The Sneetches" was such a great book.

How ate they aboriginies? I thought aboriginies lived in the jungle and wore rags and painted their faces. :?

 

 

 

Okay seriously, if Ray sounded a little racist, then you are the biggest [bleep]' racist on the planet.

 

 

 

You are not being funny with that remark, you're just being a douche.

 

 

 

It wasn't even meant to be a joke. :wall:

ungrateful IMO

 

That's one of the stupidest comments I've ever heard. They were there before you, if anyone's ungrateful, it's you. You didn't allow them to live there, they allowed you.

It's all racial. I hate races. Not to mention religions. It would be better if we were all the same looking and thinking.

 

 

 

 

I disagree - having freewill makes life less boring. As for race, yeah. There would be far less problems if there were only one skin color. The most we can do is ignore the differences of our skins, but when the government won't even do that then how is everyone else expected to?

It's all racial. I hate races. Not to mention religions. It would be better if we were all the same looking and thinking.

 

 

 

 

I disagree - having freewill makes life less boring. As for race, yeah. There would be far less problems if there were only one skin color. The most we can do is ignore the differences of our skins, but when the government won't even do that then how is everyone else expected to?

 

 

 

"If we all were of the same skin color, by noon we would've found something to prejudice against each other"

 

 

 

I'm paraphrasing a quote, but I forgot entirely who wrote the exact quote. The point still stands, I don't think it'd change much if everyone was the same skin color.

I think you guys are complaining about the fact that they're easily irked by race issues. Which makes you not like them. Which gives them a reason to by irked easily by race issues. It's vicious circle. Break it.