ungrateful IMO

 

That's one of the stupidest comments I've ever heard. They were there before you, if anyone's ungrateful, it's you. You didn't allow them to live there, they allowed you.

we apoligiesd and gave them back what they wanted,so your argument is invalid

 

 

 

What the hell is a maori, and he didn't really say anything wrong. :?

 

 

 

Native people. Like aboriganals, just a different type.

If the aboriginals are like the blacks here in the US, pulling the whole "It's their culture" card is pretty stupid. Ask any black guy what their ancestors did back in Africa. 99 out of 100 won't know. So if they don't know their ancestor's culture, they can't say that they want to be in it. They have to follow the culture of the land, which is Western.

 

 

 

Besides, with all the things I'm reading on this thread, all the help the aboriginals are getting, when one of them don't want to work its because they don't want to. They can think themselves as failures, I don't care. But they have to contribute to society if they take from society. Else they need to be locked up.

Just a sec... Sorting through some stuff.

 

 

 

The initial topic was fine. But some people are taking this too far.

 

 

 

I urge everyone to read this:

 

1.5 - Flaming, Violence, Harassment & Pointless Vulgarity

 

 

 

Mild, intelligent flaming is allowable. However, pointless harassment aimed at a specific individual or group of people is unacceptable. It is not our intention to limit the poster's option to use occasional curse words to demonstrate a point. However pointless, excessive, or obscene cursing will be edited or deleted. There is a chat filter in operation, which will disguise certain inappropriate words. Forum infractions may result in immediate actions being taken that can range from written warnings, temporary suspension or permanent suspension from this site, depending on the severity and frequency of the offense. User names (and profile information) may not be offensive, vulgar, profane, or abusive.

 

 

 

Intentionally posting false arguments, intentionally misquoting other users, flames or personal attacks for no other purpose than to incite a negative reaction, annoy others or disrupt a discussion is also prohibited. Posts that are disparaging toward any religion, race, nation, social status, gender, or sexual orientation are strictly forbidden. No personal threats or harassment. This includes posting pictures representing an attack. Debate opinions - not the people behind them. This also applies to all forums, threads, posts, private messages, profiles, avatars and signatures. Any post using excessive vulgarity, threatening or harassing, obscene or hateful, deliberately inaccurate or misleading, explicitly sexual in nature, an invasion of a person's privacy, abusing our censor, or in any other way violates the law, may be edited or removed and the user may be banned (at the discretion of the Administrators).

The rules mention religion but we still "harass" that as well without anybody saying a word.

 

 

 

What the hell is a maori, and he didn't really say anything wrong. :?

 

 

 

Native people. Like aboriganals, just a different type.

 

 

 

Aboriginals essentially comes to mean any indigenous, homogenous population of a "land". Doesn't matter whether they are "primitive" or not.

 

 

 

Also, Zonor and Dave. I think your're antagonizing them just a little bit. White settlement in Australia has essentially been here for 200 years. And the aboriginals - 60,000. I'm sure they can adapt and change to our current environment. It is wrong for you to think so low of them. As simple minded neanderthals who prefer hunting and eating "bush tucker" even now. Ultimately, I think it comes down to complacency and laziness.

Before you judge a culture, try attempting to learn a bit about them.

 

 

 

Fewer Aboriginal people drink alcohol in comparison with non-Aboriginal people. However, of those who drink, do so at more harmful levels. And that's hardly surprising considering the colonization and the ongoing legacy of that era. And when I say Aboriginal I am also including those of Torres Straight/Islander descent.

 

 

 

At the 2001 census, Australia's population amounted to almost 19.5 million (Australian Bureau of Statistics 2002). Of this total, it was estimated that less than half a million people (2.4%) were Aboriginal or Torres Straight Islander. One fifth of the Aboriginal population were concentrated in the Northern Territory. In other states (and territories) of Australia the Aboriginal population amounted to less than 4% of the total. Although in areas of the Northern Territory such as Jabiru and Apatula, aboriginals are accounted for approx. three quarters of the total population (Australian Bureau of Statistics 2002).

 

 

 

In 2001, one fifth of the Aboriginals reported that they did not even drink alcohol (20.6%), in comparison to slightly fewer non Aboriginals (17.3%; Australian Institute of Health and Welfare 2002a). However, a higher percentage of Aboriginal people reported drinking amounts considered at risk for either short-term or long-term damage. Almost half the Aboriginal population have reported risky drinking for short-term harm, and 20% reported drinking at levels considered risky for long-term harm (48.7% and 19.9%, respectively; AIHW 2002b).

 

 

 

There is a general agreement that colonization is reflected in the social and economic disparities between Aboriginals and the rest of Australia. For example, in 1997-99 the life expectancy at birth for the Aboriginal people was approx. 20 years lower than the rest of Australia (Australian Bureau of Statistics 2001). A 1994 national survey involving Aboriginals showed that education, income and home ownership is reduced (Australian Bureau of Statistics 1996). Hospital data also indicate higher levels of mental disorders, behavioural disorders and a higher hospitalization rate for diseases (Australian Bureau of Statistics 2001).

 

 

 

There is also some debate that Aboriginals had access to intoxicating substances prior to colonization. Some argue that Aboriginal people's lack of awareness regarding intoxicating substances meant they were particularly vulnerable to alcohol misuse when colonization occurred. Brady (1998) reports various examples of Aboriginal's manufacture of low-alcohol drinks from the parts of Indigenous plants and trees, which took place before colonization. For example, the sap of Eucalyptus Gunnii, of which can be extremely intoxicating when allowed to be left for some time. Many Aboriginal slaves were also paid in Alcohol by the white landowners in exchange for their labor (Atkinson 2002; Saggers & Grey 1998). For almost a century, the Aboriginal population were legally prohibited from drinking (Alexander 1990). For example, as late as 1965, in Western Australia a person could be fined up to $200 or imprisoned for six months for supplying a "native" with alcohol (Saggers & Gray 1998).

 

 

 

Here are some Aboriginal comments which reflected the uplifting of this law:

 

 

 

"When we had citizenship to drink, that time I drink"

 

"When people got citizen for alcohol, then everybody start drinking" (Brady 1995a. pp. 54 & 63).

 

 

 

Aboriginals of Australia mainly drink in groups. Some Northern Territory locals named their favourite places as the following "the long grass", the "river bank" or "the park" (Alati 1996). Communal drinking contributes to feelings of equality and encourages sharing (Atkinson 2002). While other Aboriginals declared that they "drink in order to belong" (Alexander 1990, p. xvi). It seems it is a traditional obligation within the Aboriginal community to share their resources.

Also, Zonor and Dave. I think your're antagonizing them just a little bit. White settlement in Australia has essentially been here for 200 years. And the aboriginals - 60,000. I'm sure they can adapt and change to our current environment. It is wrong for you to think so low of them. As simple minded neanderthals who prefer hunting and eating "bush tucker" even now. Ultimately, I think it comes down to complacency and laziness.

 

I give you that I am a little prejudiced. I don't make excuses for that. I believe that everyone has a responsibility to contribute to the society that provides for them, and my disapproval for people's failure in this regard isn't limited to indigenous people.

 

 

 

However, I wouldn't go so far as to say that I think that indigenous people are "simple minded". I am well aware that there are indigenous people who contribute to society and even more (of the younger generation) who want to develop their potential to do so, but the problem lies, for the most part, in the older generation holding them back, whether out of jealously, spite for our society, or whatever reason. And I do think that we as a society are partly to blame for promoting their victim culture.

 

 

 

Justified by social darwinism we have already convinced ourselves that Western civilization must be better, and in turn conquered anyone we deemed inferior. Obviously we can't go back now, nor could these two civilizations coexist. Yet it doesn't mean that since was able to capture the other that it is better. For example, lets say the whole point of our existence is happiness. Can you argue that someone in a Western Civilization is happier than someone in a hunter-gather based one?

 

The problem is not that they can't integrate into our society, but our mindset that they, whether or not they wanted to, should be forced to integrate.

 

Whether or not one culture is "superior" is irrelevant. If an individual wants to take advantage of the benefits of a society, they are obligated to contribute their own efforts and resources to maintaining and improving that society. If that means that they must integrate, then so be it.

 

 

 

Wow, Tafe is much more relaxed then, my friends have been racist and sexist with not even a yelling. One guy was editing a pic of the KFC guy so it looked like he was wearing a KKK robe and the teacher was like "Oh, now that's naughty" and that was it. :?

 

There is a horrifying amount of left bias in my university in general, and in the Education and Arts faculties in particular.

I agree with someone above me. The world would be so much better if everyone looked exactly the same. Perhaps maybe all girls look the same and all boys look the same, maybe...

 

 

 

But in school kids are taught the world would be boring that way and that originality in your looks is good, I sir, disagree.

 

 

 

Edit: And no I'm not black or jewish or australian....

I agree with someone above me. The world would be so much better if everyone looked exactly the same. Perhaps maybe all girls look the same and all boys look the same, maybe...

 

 

 

But in school kids are taught the world would be boring that way and that originality in your looks is good, I sir, disagree.

 

 

 

Edit: And no I'm not black or jewish or australian....

 

Yeah, except that's not about to happen. Stopping racism is a more likely goal to set.

The government isnt racist, they're so anti racist that they think they actually need to apoligise and give aboriginals a better go than us.

 

As someone stated - it wasnt this generation who screwed them over. It was a previous one. Native americans are mostly over it, and I think aboriginals are too.

 

But alot of them still use this as a comeback when the government take something off of them.

 

If a Mod or Admin feels this is lockable, go ahead I dont care. I just had to vent this :thumbup:

I agree with someone above me. The world would be so much better if everyone looked exactly the same. Perhaps maybe all girls look the same and all boys look the same, maybe...

 

 

 

But in school kids are taught the world would be boring that way and that originality in your looks is good, I sir, disagree.

 

 

 

Edit: And no I'm not black or jewish or australian....

 

Yeah, except that's not about to happen. Stopping racism is a more likely goal to set.

 

 

 

Why don't we try to devise a serum that cures every known disease, or send someone to another galaxy instead? We might actually succeed with one of those...

 

Also, Zonor and Dave. I think your're antagonizing them just a little bit. White settlement in Australia has essentially been here for 200 years. And the aboriginals - 60,000. I'm sure they can adapt and change to our current environment. It is wrong for you to think so low of them. As simple minded neanderthals who prefer hunting and eating "bush tucker" even now. Ultimately, I think it comes down to complacency and laziness.

 

I wasn't saying they couldn't, I was saying that we shouldn't have forced them to. Yet it's obviously a little late for that now.

 

You guys that live in Australia would easily know better than I do. Today, they may seem lazy, but we still have to look at the underlying cause, and I'm still going to say it's that Westerners forced them to adapt to their culture.

 

 

Justified by social darwinism we have already convinced ourselves that Western civilization must be better, and in turn conquered anyone we deemed inferior. Obviously we can't go back now, nor could these two civilizations coexist. Yet it doesn't mean that since was able to capture the other that it is better. For example, lets say the whole point of our existence is happiness. Can you argue that someone in a Western Civilization is happier than someone in a hunter-gather based one?

 

The problem is not that they can't integrate into our society, but our mindset that they, whether or not they wanted to, should be forced to integrate.

 

Whether or not one culture is "superior" is irrelevant. If an individual wants to take advantage of the benefits of a society, they are obligated to contribute their own efforts and resources to maintaining and improving that society. If that means that they must integrate, then so be it.

 

 

It is relevant. If we hadn't thought our culture was superior, we wouldn't have forced them to adapt to it. Instead we could have viewed neither one superior than the other.

 

How do we know that they would have wanted to reap the benefits and negatives of Western society.

 

I thought we hadn't given them a choice, but again as I don't know as much by not living in Australia or New Zealand.

 

On another note, I thought it was obvious, but I wasn't talking about the current situation. In their current predicament, even though they were forced to adapt and however unfair it may seem to them, they are now obligated to participate in that society.

 

Also, Zonor and Dave. I think your're antagonizing them just a little bit. White settlement in Australia has essentially been here for 200 years. And the aboriginals - 60,000. I'm sure they can adapt and change to our current environment. It is wrong for you to think so low of them. As simple minded neanderthals who prefer hunting and eating "bush tucker" even now. Ultimately, I think it comes down to complacency and laziness.

 

I wasn't saying they couldn't, I was saying that we shouldn't have forced them to. Yet it's obviously a little late for that now.

 

You guys that live in Australia would easily know better than I do. Today, they may seem lazy, but we still have to look at the underlying cause, and I'm still going to say it's that Westerners forced them to adapt to their culture.

 

 

 

Well in reality they have had like two centuries to get used to this, and they havent. It's their fault. And we should stop paying for them.

 

 

 

They even have the nerve to use their welfare money on booze, drugs and cigarettes.

 

Well in reality they have had like two centuries to get used to this, and they havent. It's their fault. And we should stop paying for them.

 

 

 

 

But should they have been forced to get used to this? Presently, I guess they should just except that whatever happened in the past, wrong or right, happened and they should try the best to make the best of their situation.

But why should they been forced to get used to this? Presently, I guess they should just except that whatever happened in the past, wrong or right, happened and they should try the best to make the best of their situation.

 

 

 

Because what they are doing now isnt trying to be like their ancestors. They are leeching off of the government and doing already illegal things. They are getting enough special treatment as it is, and even the Native americans have moved on, and everyone has evolved and adapted to the "current age", so why the hell cant they stop whining and live like a normal person in this day-and-age and stop being treated as if they actually try.

Because what they are doing now isnt trying to be like their ancestors. They are leeching off of the government and doing already illegal things. They are getting enough special treatment as it is, and even the Native americans have moved on, and everyone has evolved and adapted to the "current age", so why the hell cant they stop whining and live like a normal person in this day-and-age and stop being treated as if they actually try.

 

From what you've said, it sounds like they haven't adapted after these 200 years. And I still don't get why it was okay to force them to adapt, but I'll just leave it at that.

Because what they are doing now isnt trying to be like their ancestors. They are leeching off of the government and doing already illegal things. They are getting enough special treatment as it is, and even the Native americans have moved on, and everyone has evolved and adapted to the "current age", so why the hell cant they stop whining and live like a normal person in this day-and-age and stop being treated as if they actually try.

 

From what you've said, it sounds like they haven't adapted after these 200 years. And I still don't get why it was okay to force them to adapt, but I'll just leave it at that.

 

Because they're not being like their ancestors. If they give a damn about their culture, they wouldn't be in the city.

 

Because they're not being like their ancestors. If they give a damn about their culture, they wouldn't be in the city.

 

Is there no correlation between them being aboriginal and having more troubles than everyone else today? Is the whole reason that they haven't done as well because they don't want to?

No. even aboriginal kids go to school. So there is no excuse.

 

They can get an education, they can get a job. It's not hard at all. I, at 15 (3 weeks) could probably walk in to a gas station and get a job there now. Employment in Australia isnt hard at all, lots of places just give jobs out.

 

 

 

E.G Trolley pushing.

I still think that there should be a reason for why, when they have these supposed oppurtunities, they aren't taking advantage of these. Are they not victimized more, do they not have more crime? Is there no other reason for this?

As a few people have stated, they are lazy and the government babyfeeds them enough so they arent inclined to get a job.

 

But as I also said, the government is stupid.

 

 

 

Also, aboriginals around my neighbourhood are usually the ones thieving stuff from shops. I even remember when Iwas like 12, I heard 14 year old aboriginals outside of Target.

 

One said "did you get it?" the other said "No i thought [name] had it".

 

Personally I havent seen any white person do this and I've only seen it 2 times. But you get what i mean.

They even have the nerve to use their welfare money on booze, drugs and cigarettes.

 

 

 

As a few people have stated, they are lazy and the government babyfeeds them enough so they arent inclined to get a job.

 

 

 

Also, aboriginals around my neighbourhood are usually the ones thieving stuff from shops.

 

 

 

There are more white people on welfare than the entire Aboriginal culture. There is a higher unemployment rate in white people. Not to mention a higher rate in theft/crime by white people. White people drink more too, they just drink safer amounts.

 

 

 

Let's create a thread about how [bleep]ed up white people are lol

Let's create a thread about how [bleep] up white people are lol

 

 

 

We already have enough political threads though.

 

 

 

By the way, I've heard that black people are twice as likely to be unemployed and three times as likely to live in poverty. There's so much contradicting evidence that I don't know who to believe. Although, from what I witnessed with my own two eyes, I know for a fact that black colleges exist but white colleges don't.

There are more white people on welfare than the entire Aboriginal culture. There is a higher unemployment rate in white people. Not to mention a higher rate in theft/crime by white people. White people drink more too, they just drink safer amounts.

 

 

 

Let's create a thread about how [bleep] up white people are lol

 

 

 

I'll give you that. But white people and unemployment usually dont go with kids or a family living with them at the time, so they dont screw up many other peoples lives like some aboriginals.

 

But there are alot more white people than there are aboriginal people, as you said yourself.

 

Yes, I still notice I am coming off a little stereotypical, but I really dont intend on looking like a nazi wannabe, nor do I want to be.

 

 

 

To be honest, the government shouldnt give such money to anyone who is unemployed. Everyone is capable of getting a job except for mentally ill people who usually have someone looking after them and paying their expenses.

 

But if the government wants to give money out to unemployed people, why exactly do aboriginals get more? Not to mention there are numerous other benefits aboriginal people get over white people. But they would technically have a harder time getting jobs because a lot of people are conscious about having "black people in the workplace" and whatnot. But that doesnt mean they are looking for jobs that much.

 

 

 

Sure, I do know some aboriginal people who arent trying to screw up their lives and some of them really want to do well by the looks of it, but the majority of aboriginals I know and most likely are in australia dont really care for whatever reason.