Your views on file sharing and piracy

[FunPhish]

I pirate everything from songs to Roller-Coaster Tycoon 2, the people who create these things are rich enough as it is. Where is the line between money you need and just being greedy, who knows, but the way I see it these people are getting along just fine.

 

 

 

There are machines in McDonalds that provide one-day DVD rentals for $1.08 per rent. Its so cheap its almost piracy. :?

 

 

 

Not everyone is that rich, for example there are tons of non mainstream bands who have the little profit they would be getting made even smaller because people would rather just download it. Lots of game companies, even well known ones go out of business as well; they need to earn money as well, its not like everyone is super rich you know. And its not even like the songs are that expensive. Even if you had no money, i'm sure there are alternate ways of listening to music, like turning on MTV or the radio or going on your favourite artists official music channel. Its not like anyones forcing you to illegally download stuff.

 

 

 

I was raised on the original Napster, I grew up seeing cd's as a waste of $15, this opinion will never change, ever. A cd is an absolute waste of money, if I can get a loaf of bread for free rather than paying $15 obviously I'm getting it for free, the baker can kiss my [wagon]. The majority of songs I download are so old the original artist probobly doesn't even own the rights anymore. As far as game companies needing money, I bought 3 RCT's so that's over $100 I gave them, god forbid they throw me a bone and let me get RCT 2 for free. And no I'm not being forced, but I HAVE NO MONEY, so I DO NOT have another option, if I want these things I HAVE to pirate them because I CAN NOT afford them.

[Celt23]

The RI/MPAA need to fix their obsolete business model, stop their outrageous lawsuits, and their attempts at restricting freedom in the information age. If they do that, then they wouldn't have such an abysmal reputation and maybe both sides would be happy. It's simply a matter of fact that you can't stop piracy.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

I have a pretty firm stance on piracy - I'm for it. I do it on occasion, with justifications. But there are so many things wrong with the way the system is set up now that it's absolutely ludicrous.

 

 

 

To begin with, piracy should not be seen as some sort of evil thing that is robbing artists blind. It's actually helping them. One of my favorite artists (Moby) released a song for free, and since he did that, I'm actually considering buying the album when I have both time and money. Not to mention there are other artists' songs that I've sampled in a similar manner, either free from last.fm or from friends, and they've all but won me over as a customer.

 

 

 

You might be thinking, "Well you haven't bought any of their songs, so you *are* taking money from them", and you might have been justified in that statement if I wasn't ever going to buy that music. But that's not the issue at hand here. The issue is if I want to buy their music or not. There's no way in Hell that I am going to pay $0.99 for an artists' song that is absolute crap. I also hate making decisions on things that I haven't either heard reviews from or listened to myself. The way I see it, it's the equivalent of going to a college that you just heard about because you just heard about it, then realizing it was crap, and trying to get your tuition back. Do your research before you purchase. That's what the piracy model encourages, in my eyes.

 

 

 

Next, we have the so-called "issue" of anime. I like anime a lot. Especially Bleach. The only problem is that it's not nearly as up to date as it is in Japan. Does this mean I'll never buy the box set? I will when it comes out complete, that's for sure. Not to mention, most anime licensees see this opportunity to sire interest in the series they're producing at hand, with the most prominent example of such being Naruto Shippuden being aired a week online after in Japan.

 

 

 

Again, this comes back to the point, "the more people see it, the more likely they are to enjoy it". That's all it is. Of course, RIAA/MPAA can't see past their own wallets, so they don't normally accept the kind of publicity things like movies and songs get from these kinds of systems.

 

 

 

Third, I pirate the BGM of games that I own. I absolutely hate considering that "piracy", as I actually own the game - I just want to listen to the BGM as well (and some BGM game CDs don't even retail in the United States). Hey - what the Hell is wrong with me listening to "Agnus Dei" from Ace Combat 04? I could accomplish the same thing if I put my legit bought AC04 disc in my PS2 and played the song there. I'm just doing it from a different device.

 

 

 

No one's really bothered anyone about the BGM music thing; it's more of a niche market than anything. If they did bother me though, I'll be glad to dig out my old Game Gear cartridges when they question me about the Sonic music I'm listening to.

 

 

 

Fourth, the reason that I embrace the sharing/piracy model is because of the system I choose to use. Did you know that it's illegal for me to watch legally purchased movies on my computer? That's [cabbage]. I'm not spending $35 so I could get slapped with a lawsuit behind the DMCA. It's not that I don't want to buy the movies, it's just that the way they're making us watch them and restricting how we may watch them which drives me to piracy. Although I will admit, it hasn't stopped me from buying movies that I really wanted.

 

 

 

Finally, I think there's a handful of confusion (in Hollywood; what else is new?) about the real benefits of piracy. They have the perception that pirates will resell pirated songs or movies at a profit, which typically isn't the case - not to say that it doesn't still happen, but if a college student pirates 100 songs, it's probably because they want to try out those artists, not make a quick buck.

 

 

 

Funny thing is that the colleagues I work with on campus feel the same way, and they hope that Hollywood wakes up to the issue before they either force P2P to innovate to be indiscernible from normal Internet traffic, or we resort back to the underground of Sneakernet.

 

 

 

Oh, and on the 'legit' uses of torrenting clients - you can bet your bottom dollar that there will be Hell to pay if they force me to download a Linux ISO from an overworked main server. In that case, torrenting helps because not only are you getting the ISO, you're reducing the load to a particular server, so it doesn't go completely offline or becomes unbearably slow (imagine 256Kb/s downloads on a 40Mb line).

[Ss_J9_Goten]

I was raised on the original Napster, I grew up seeing cd's as a waste of $15, this opinion will never change, ever. A cd is an absolute waste of money, if I can get a loaf of bread for free rather than paying $15 obviously I'm getting it for free, the baker can kiss my [wagon]. The majority of songs I download are so old the original artist probobly doesn't even own the rights anymore. As far as game companies needing money, I bought 3 RCT's so that's over $100 I gave them, god forbid they throw me a bone and let me get RCT 2 for free. And no I'm not being forced, but I HAVE NO MONEY, so I DO NOT have another option, if I want these things I HAVE to pirate them because I CAN NOT afford them.

 

 

 

I'm for "piracy" as well, but you're arguments are just [developmentally delayed]ed. You're acting as if you're entitled to these things.

 

 

 

1. So you'd feel someone was fully justified if they took something of yours rather than paying for it?

 

 

 

2. That's stupid; just because (in your mind) they probably don't own the rights doesn't mean they don't own the rights. Besides which, a better argument would be that the money goes to the label rather than the artist.

 

 

 

3. You didn't give that money to them, you bought something off them. Big difference. Stop acting as if you're doing them a [bleep]ing charity by buying those (and why the hell would you need three?). And yeah, it's their product, which they own the rights to, so that throwing you a bone [cabbage] doesn't fly.

 

 

 

4. If you don't have the money for it, suck it up. That's the weakest argument I've ever heard (don't worry, you're not the first). The only time that excuse becomes even remotely acceptable is when it's a necessity.

[FunPhish]

I was raised on the original Napster, I grew up seeing cd's as a waste of $15, this opinion will never change, ever. A cd is an absolute waste of money, if I can get a loaf of bread for free rather than paying $15 obviously I'm getting it for free, the baker can kiss my [wagon]. The majority of songs I download are so old the original artist probobly doesn't even own the rights anymore. As far as game companies needing money, I bought 3 RCT's so that's over $100 I gave them, god forbid they throw me a bone and let me get RCT 2 for free. And no I'm not being forced, but I HAVE NO MONEY, so I DO NOT have another option, if I want these things I HAVE to pirate them because I CAN NOT afford them.

 

 

 

I'm for "piracy" as well, but you're arguments are just [developmentally delayed]. You're acting as if you're entitled to these things.

 

 

 

1. So you'd feel someone was fully justified if they took something of yours rather than paying for it?

 

 

 

2. That's stupid; just because (in your mind) they probably don't own the rights doesn't mean they don't own the rights. Besides which, a better argument would be that the money goes to the label rather than the artist.

 

 

 

3. You didn't give that money to them, you bought something off them. Big difference. Stop acting as if you're doing them a [bleep] charity by buying those (and why the hell would you need three?). And yeah, it's their product, which they own the rights to, so that throwing you a bone [cabbage] doesn't fly.

 

 

 

4. If you don't have the money for it, suck it up. That's the weakest argument I've ever heard (don't worry, you're not the first). The only time that excuse becomes even remotely acceptable is when it's a necessity.

 

 

 

1. They aren't taking anything from me, so I don't know how I'd feel, untill that times comes I DON'T CARE.

 

 

 

2. I never said for sure they don't own the rights, and secondly I don't even know how else to find half of the old-skool beats I get.

 

 

 

3. I might as well have, they spend like $10 a disk I spend $35? Seems like charity to me. Oh and I didn't buy 3 copies of the same game moron, I bought expansions.

 

 

 

 

 

4. Kiss my [wagon], I WON'T suck it up, I'll downlaod what I want when I want as I am entitled to.

 

 

 

5. You need to calm the hell down dude, you act like I'm stealing from you, quit being so insulting you're only making yourself look stupid. No one here is going to change my mind, I don't care who is going bankrupt I'm getting my music when I want it.

[Racheya]

Calm down guys lets not start flaming.

 

 

 

Discussing FunPhish's attitude towards piracy I have to say that it's that sort of mentality that works. If you're not selfish then you'll never have everything you want and you'll be unhappy. People strive to be happy and really you have 3 choices:

 

 

 

1) Buy the CDs and be unhappy because you have no money left

 

2) Not buy the CDs and be unhappy because you can't have them

 

3) Pirate the CDs and be happy because you still have money and the music

 

 

 

I think that being happy is important. Also having enough money to get food is important too. So what would be the logical choice? If people can get something for free then they're going to take it. Why not?

[Ss_J9_Goten]

So, honest question, neither of you find anything wrong with people taking what they want just because they can?

 

 

 

Yeah, and I'd actually feel better if I have the cd. It's just something about owning the physical product and being able to put it in my cd player that makes me happy, but to each their own, I guess.

 

 

 

But this just isn't a case of selfishness, I'm more appalled with his attitude than that.

 

 

 

1. So you can't summon even a little bit of empathy? My point was that you're not entitled to anything unless you pay for it (unless it's being given to you willingly for free). I'd also be interested as to why you feel you're entitled to it.

 

 

 

2. Um, yeah I know you said that. I'm pretty sure if you read my post, you'd know that I know that.

 

 

 

3. Mark-up is a pretty easy concept to grasp. They spend money producing the physical copy; they spend money developing the original copy. They have to pay game designers, marketing, etc. And this is a big difference from a charity, how can you even begin to compare the two, in all seriousness? And nice work jackass, saying you bought three RCT's would indicate to most people you bought three copies of the game. So don't fire up at me for your poor communication.

 

 

 

4. You're not entitled to anything. Words cannot even begin to convey my utter disdain for your attitude.

 

 

 

5.

You need to calm the hell down dude, you act like I'm stealing from you, quit being so insulting you're only making yourself look stupid. No one here is going to change my mind, I don't care who is going bankrupt I'm getting my music when I want it.

 

 

 

 

I always hated posting images, but this seemed so perfect...

[Kiriyama]

Calm down guys lets not start flaming.

 

 

 

Discussing FunPhish's attitude towards piracy I have to say that it's that sort of mentality that works. If you're not selfish then you'll never have everything you want and you'll be unhappy. People strive to be happy and really you have 3 choices:

 

 

 

1) Buy the CDs and be unhappy because you have no money left

 

2) Not buy the CDs and be unhappy because you can't have them

 

3) Pirate the CDs and be happy because you still have money and the music

 

 

 

I think that being happy is important. Also having enough money to get food is important too. So what would be the logical choice? If people can get something for free then they're going to take it. Why not?

 

 

 

-.-

 

 

 

That is the stupidest thing ever.

 

 

 

If you're buying CDs and unhappy because you have no money left, then it is your own damn fault for not managing your money correctly.

 

 

 

You have at least 4 choices.

 

 

 

1) Buy the CDs and be happy.

 

2) Overspend on CDs and be unhappy that your choice has left you with no money.

 

3) Choose not to get the CDs and realise it was your choice not to purchase it and was therefore right for you.

 

4) Pirate the CD, which is illegal, but still be happy with your choice.

 

 

 

We can get anything for free, it's called theft, but you don't see everyone running about stealing anything they want, do you?

[Boris5000]

Downloading stuff illegally still requires us to pay... Yep, your phone company charges you for your connection... :o

[Nadril]

2. I never said for sure they don't own the rights, and secondly I don't even know how else to find half of the old-skool beats I get.

 

 

 

Just so you know copyright for music, IIRC, is the artists life + 15 years?

 

 

 

3. I might as well have, they spend like $10 a disk I spend $35? Seems like charity to me. Oh and I didn't buy 3 copies of the same game moron, I bought expansions.

 

 

 

Clearly the only cost that went into it was the cost of a disc. (which is no where near $10, not even close to $1). Game development is incredibly costly.

 

 

 

5. You need to calm the hell down dude, you act like I'm stealing from you, quit being so insulting you're only making yourself look stupid. No one here is going to change my mind, I don't care who is going bankrupt I'm getting my music when I want it.

 

 

 

You're really annoying. I'm just going to go out and say that. I'm not "against" piracy but your reasoning for it is the most insane I've ever seen. Just pirate it and stop trying to reason.

[Racheya]

Calm down guys lets not start flaming.

 

 

 

Discussing FunPhish's attitude towards piracy I have to say that it's that sort of mentality that works. If you're not selfish then you'll never have everything you want and you'll be unhappy. People strive to be happy and really you have 3 choices:

 

 

 

1) Buy the CDs and be unhappy because you have no money left

 

2) Not buy the CDs and be unhappy because you can't have them

 

3) Pirate the CDs and be happy because you still have money and the music

 

 

 

I think that being happy is important. Also having enough money to get food is important too. So what would be the logical choice? If people can get something for free then they're going to take it. Why not?

 

 

 

-.-

 

 

 

That is the stupidest thing ever.

 

 

 

If you're buying CDs and unhappy because you have no money left, then it is your own damn fault for not managing your money correctly.

 

 

 

You have at least 4 choices.

 

 

 

1) Buy the CDs and be happy.

 

2) Overspend on CDs and be unhappy that your choice has left you with no money.

 

3) Choose not to get the CDs and realise it was your choice not to purchase it and was therefore right for you.

 

4) Pirate the CD, which is illegal, but still be happy with your choice.

 

 

 

We can get anything for free, it's called theft, but you don't see everyone running about stealing anything they want, do you?

 

I understand your point, but you don't have to overspend to not have enough money other things if you buy a CD. If I were to buy a CD now I'd end up broke. For some people, like me, it's that bad. Some people just don't get money to spend on stuff. Does that mean these people aren't entitled to be entertained?

 

 

 

And it's not stealing, it's copying. Something hasn't gone because it was pirated, it's there same as it always was.

[Jernlov]

CDs are a waste of money anyway.

 

 

 

Vinyl is where it's at. If you're going to buy music, it's the only way.

[Nadril]

I understand your point, but you don't have to overspend to not have enough money other things if you buy a CD. If I were to buy a CD now I'd end up broke. For some people, like me, it's that bad. Some people just don't get money to spend on stuff. Does that mean these people aren't entitled to be entertained?

 

 

 

And it's not stealing, it's copying. Something hasn't gone because it was pirated, it's there same as it always was.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is a difference between you just doing it and trying to justify by saying you are entitled to do so. You, nor anyone else, is not entitled to free music, games, ect. It just doesn't work like that in the real world.

 

 

 

However, with piracy I find if you want it -- just download it. [bleep] trying to justify it and make yourself feel better about it. It's illegal, and rightfully so it should be. However I should also mention that sometimes people need to go to illegal means to make their "voice" heard, as record companies are much more inclined to see a large [bleep]e in piracy than just a drop in sales. Afterall those pirates are "lost sales" according to them. Get enough of these lost sales and you'll have some higher ups wondering just how the hell can you get them to purchase their music.

 

 

 

But yeah, trying to justify and say it's alright is really annoying. Just live with the fact that you are doing something illegal, and assess the risks at hand. That's not to say that I agree with the insane lawsuits the RIAA puts out though.

[Kiriyama]

If buying 1 CD means you go broke, then it is technically overspending, as you are spending more than you can afford to.

 

 

 

Okay fine, it's not stealing, it's copying. However, using that logic, I could go borrow a book from a library, spend some time copying it word for word onto my computer, then return it. I'm not doing anything wrong there, am I? That's the same thing as pirating a film or CD.

 

 

 

People are entitled to be entertained, but if you have to do it through illegal methods, then really, you are not entitled to anything. When you buy a CD, you buy the right to listen to it. The actual material on the disc does not belong to you.

 

 

 

If you want to be entertained for free, listen to the damn radio or something. It's technically free, but you get what you pay for if you dislike the material on it.

 

 

 

You can never really justify piracy, can't afford CDs? Get a job, or just suck it up if you have a job and still can't afford. If you don't want to pay, then really, what [bleep]ing right do you have?

[Nadril]

Okay fine, it's not stealing, it's copying. However, using that logic, I could go borrow a book from a library, spend some time copying it word for word onto my computer, then return it. I'm not doing anything wrong there, am I? That's the same thing as pirating a film or CD.

 

 

 

Showing a movie only you bought to friends is the same as pirating.

 

 

 

Burning a copy of a CD for a friend is the same as pirating.

 

 

 

Showing a video to a classroom without the proper license is the same as pirating.

 

 

 

 

 

:) And I see nothing wrong with your "example", unless the person tried to sell the copy of the book.

[BlueTear]

Some people just don't get money to spend on stuff. Does that mean these people aren't entitled to be entertained?

So you're basically arguing that the people who do get the money to spend on stuff, should spend it on digital entertainment, causing production of digital entertainment, which can then be freely distributed based on need to the people who can't pay. Because if no one paid, there'd be no production, so there wouldn't be anything to download in the first place. So someone has to pay.

 

 

 

But not the people without money. Other people pay their entertainment for them. Is that about the gist of it?

[Kiriyama]

That was the best example I could actually come up with, since you can't technically return opened CDs/DvDs/Games for the price you got it for.

 

 

 

Yeah, a lot of them are essentially pirating, especially the second one. I admit to doing them, and recieving copies of CDs from a mate. I won't justify what I did, I know it's illegal. Hell, I've probably done all of your examples in some way, in no way was I right to do so, but at least I won't justify it. Hell, you can't even borrow CDs off someone, because that is technically illegal. I still do that, and often end up ripping them onto my computer.

 

 

 

Yeah, so I do actually pirate stuff, and I'm not against piracy either. What I am against is those who try justify piracy.

 

 

 

And Rocco, he speaks more or less the truth. In order for a lot of stuff to get online in order for others to obtain it, someone does have to pay for their entertainment.

[Giordano]

Some people just don't get money to spend on stuff. Does that mean these people aren't entitled to be entertained?

So you're basically arguing that the people who do get the money to spend on stuff, should spend it on digital entertainment, causing production of digital entertainment, which can then be freely distributed based on need to the people who can't pay. Because if no one paid, there'd be no production, so there wouldn't be anything to download in the first place. So someone has to pay.

 

 

 

But not the people without money. Other people pay their entertainment for them. Is that about the gist of it?

 

You make it sound worse than it is.

 

Well, that IS how our capitalistic system works. If you don't have the money to buy products you work for it.

 

 

 

And it is also in our society to save money, as Dusty (I think?) said, and piracy is a way of saving.

[FunPhish]

I wish you guys would quit making fun of me, you're really hurting my feelings. I probobly said alittle too much but my only point is that I'm broke, and I'm getting my entertainment by any means I have to. Hell I'd steal from Wal-Mart if It was as easy as pirating. I have no shame in being a theif, I was raised to get mine, and odds are I'll be that way untill I die.

[Rebdragon]

You piece of [cabbage]. "Get mine"? Ha.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

I wish you guys would quit making fun of me, you're really hurting my feelings. I probobly said alittle too much but my only point is that I'm broke, and I'm getting my entertainment by any means I have to. Hell I'd steal from Wal-Mart if It was as easy as pirating. I have no shame in being a theif, I was raised to get mine, and odds are I'll be that way untill I die.

 

No one's calling you out because you're a pirate; they're calling you out because you justify piracy in such a seedy way that it makes their stomachs turn.

 

 

 

I said it earlier - I pirate what I can, when I can. But I sure as hell don't want to be a criminal. Either I have already paid for what I downloaded in some way (e.g. game BGM music or movies I own legit) or I don't plan on reselling them (e.g. Bleach/Naruto collection). But equating piracy to stealing is just a misunderstanding. Perhaps you should get that cleared up a bit.

[Nero]

Haha I love the people in this thread that write ridiculously long posts justifying their pirating. Why can't people just admit that they do it because it's free? I guarantee you that's why 99% of people pirate things.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Haha I love the people in this thread that write ridiculously long posts justifying their pirating. Why can't people just admit that they do it because it's free? I guarantee you that's why 99% of people pirate things.

 

I'm almost certain you can find a torrent of the short-lived series "Cavemen" on the Internet, and I'm almost certain that no one in their right (or wrong) mind would have that series. It freaking sucked.

 

 

 

People don't pirate because it's free. They pirate because they happen to like what they're downloading. Don't let the price tag fool you.

[Skull]

I torrent 'cause it's free.

[Nadril]

Haha I love the people in this thread that write ridiculously long posts justifying their pirating. Why can't people just admit that they do it because it's free? I guarantee you that's why 99% of people pirate things.

 

 

 

People don't pirate because it's free. They pirate because they happen to like what they're downloading. Don't let the price tag fool you.

 

 

 

That doesn't make any sense.