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The Obligatory Ice Hockey Thread


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If kessel was so undoubtably great, then why didn't any of the other teams go for him. There were plenty of other teams that could've taken him, but none did. My arguement is based on the sole belief that probability can be used to calculate the chances of 3 picks being better than kessel, and in the longrun, 3 picks will help boston more than kessel will help toronto.

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Faster, you truly surprise me.

 

What you're suggesting is that me and blyaunte are trying to 'predict the future', when in all actuality, we're using simple probability to solve the kessel equation.

 

Let's assume that there are 900 players in the nhl:

 

Kessel's +/- is ranked 867/900, thus meaning that he is better than 32 players. The chance of one rookie obtaining any given one of the +/-'s is 1 in 900. Now, time to do some math:

 

There's a 32 in 900 chance of one rookie having a +/- below kessel's, a 1 in 900 chance of a rookie tieing, and a 867 in 900 chance of 1 rookie having a better +/- than kessel. Multiply it by 3 for 3 picks, and although the overwhelming odds don't change, the ratio does (going from 33:867 to 69:2601).

 

Now, there's still a chance that the rookies will all do worse, but that chance is so miniscule if you factor in probability. This was also using 1 statistic. Using multiple, you'd get a better understanding of how we don't need to see the future to understand why the kessel deal was horrible.

Your shoddy probabilities based solely on +/- just deepens my feelings towards your attitude towards hockey (and the other person who's not being too nice in this thread).

You think you know everything. You may realize that you don't know some things, but I'm talking about the stuff you don't even know you don't know. It's mind boggling.

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If kessel was so undoubtably great, then why didn't any of the other teams go for him. There were plenty of other teams that could've taken him, but none did. My arguement is based on the sole belief that probability can be used to calculate the chances of 3 picks being better than kessel, and in the longrun, 3 picks will help boston more than kessel will help toronto.

Are you serious? A ton of teams tried to get him. BB was competing with 5+, and to this day i've talked to many bruins fans who are pissed boston let him go.

 

If you were to argue three pick may be better than Kessel, I'd agree. But waiting and seeing is the only logical step, and the fact is, Kessel helped toronto this year far more than three picks ever could.

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And in the off-season, should boston trade these 3 picks, they'll help more than kessel ever good. Picks enable weaker teams to get players that they want. If boston does what many are expecting them to do, then expect them to be a top playoff contendor next year. Toronto took kessel, and boston took the playoff spot.

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And in the off-season, should boston trade these 3 picks, they'll help more than kessel ever good. Picks enable weaker teams to get players that they want. If boston does what many are expecting them to do, then expect them to be a top playoff contendor next year. Toronto took kessel, and boston took the playoff spot.

Boston is a playoff contender this year. They have no need for draft picks whatsoever.

 

Do you honestly think that if toronto didn't make that trade that they'd be in a playoff spot this year?

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Boston may be in the playoffs, but their team still needs picks seeing as many of their top players are old, and picks are generally useful for acquiring players via trades.

 

Yguy, toronto did make that trade yet they're still not in the playoffs. I think that says a lot when you consider the fact that kessel was supposed to 'completely revolutionize their team'. Well, toronto may be 'revolutionized', but they're still lacking a playoff spot for the 7th straight year.

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Boston may be in the playoffs, but their team still needs picks seeing as many of their top players are old, and picks are generally useful for acquiring players via trades.

 

Yguy, toronto did make that trade yet they're still not in the playoffs. I think that says a lot when you consider the fact that kessel was supposed to 'completely revolutionize their team'. Well, toronto may be 'revolutionized', but they're still lacking a playoff spot for the 7th straight year.

 

Of course, but Boston doesn't need picks more than any other team.

 

I don't remember hearing Kessel was supposed to completely revolutionize their team. He was supposed to provide elite scoring, which he has done consistently since his arrival. Also, stop with this "7th straight year" bs. The team was completely different seven years ago. Say three or two years if you have any interest in being objective.

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Oh, I'll be the first to admit the leafs have made mistakes in the past, many of them. But this is a completely different team and administration now, it's unfair to hold them to the failures of past players/gms.

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Not really. Although they have a new administration, the team they had a decade ago is still effectively there stat-wise. Arguably though, the best gm they've had was fletcher, primarily due to him not having a bias toward picking up washed-up anaheim players. That, and fletcher knew exactly how he wanted the leafs, building it the same way that he'd build his cheeseburger.

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Not really. Although they have a new administration, the team they had a decade ago is still effectively there stat-wise. Arguably though, the best gm they've had was fletcher, primarily due to him not having a bias toward picking up washed-up anaheim players. That, and fletcher knew exactly how he wanted the leafs, building it the same way that he'd build his cheeseburger.

 

That doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. And what exactly do you mean by "picking washed up anaheim players"?

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"It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti

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Defensively, toronto is still at the very same spot now as they were back in 2001. Burke, if you remember correctly, used to be the gm for a little team in anaheim known as the ducks. Because of this, he made plenty of friends there, and has been trying to use that to get toronto some of his old anaheim players (namely giguere). Fletcher never had that bias, and this bias was the only true reason that a knowledgable person such as burke would bring over a useless/horrible goalie in giguere.

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Defensively, toronto is still at the very same spot now as they were back in 2001. Burke, if you remember correctly, used to be the gm for a little team in anaheim known as the ducks. Because of this, he made plenty of friends there, and has been trying to use that to get toronto some of his old anaheim players (namely giguere). Fletcher never had that bias, and this bias was the only true reason that a knowledgable person such as burke would bring over a useless/horrible goalie in giguere.

 

Firstly - just because a team has similar statistics doesn't mean they're the same team. That's ridiculous.

 

Secondly - Giguere is a former cup, vezina, and conn smythe winner. Horrible? Seriously?

 

That said, he had a bad year, sure. The whole point of that trade was to get rid of Toskala who was undeniably worse.

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giguere is a former cup/vezina winner whose best seasons were clearly behind him. He did such a poor job that hiller effectively usurped his starting job (managing to bring the ducks into the playoffs, like giguere did years ago). The leafs are effectively the same team. Similar statistics, similar goaltending, just an undeniably worse gm.

 

They got rid of toskala, sure, but goaltender-wise, they became no further ahead with giguere. They could've traded toskala away for a draft pick, and used the cap space of giguere to get themselves better overall offence.

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giguere is a former cup/vezina winner whose best seasons were clearly behind him. He did such a poor job that hiller effectively usurped his starting job (managing to bring the ducks into the playoffs, like giguere did years ago). The leafs are effectively the same team. Similar statistics, similar goaltending, just an undeniably worse gm.

 

They got rid of toskala, sure, but goaltender-wise, they became no further ahead with giguere. They could've traded toskala away for a draft pick, and used the cap space of giguere to get themselves better overall offence.

 

No, sorry. A team with completely different players and management is not the same. Also, you're forgetting Burke has won a cup and was instrumental in shaping the current best team in the league.

 

Could have traded toskala away for a pick? I doubt it, that's how awful he was. They didn't need cap space either, they have cap space to burn.

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"It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti

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lol i'm pretty sure i've seen the toskala argument a couple of pages back

 

this is just going around in a circle. ridiculous.

 

just reposting this for the new page in case people haven't seen it

 

need more people to join the TIF playoff pool

 

http://games.espn.go...up?groupID=2886

 

use california and 90210 for state/zip if you have trouble registering

 

first round entries lock tomorrow.

 

ESPN is actually offering legitimate prizes also if you're confident with your picks

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You have to admit though: giguere kept the leafs out of the playoffs this year. The leafs could've traded toskala for an 8th rounder, and they'd still have more to work with than they would with giguere. Burke won a cup, with the ducks. He also may have shaped the canucks, but with the way they were headed, any person following the path could've done the same things as burke.

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You have to admit though: giguere kept the leafs out of the playoffs this year. The leafs could've traded toskala for an 8th rounder, and they'd still have more to work with than they would with giguere. Burke won a cup, with the ducks. He also may have shaped the canucks, but with the way they were headed, any person following the path could've done the same things as burke.

 

zzzzzzzz could've would've should've. burke had the foresight to grab the pieces he needed to win the cup and won. as much as i hate building a team through FA and trades over drafting, burke has proven he has an idea what to do.

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You have to admit though: giguere kept the leafs out of the playoffs this year. The leafs could've traded toskala for an 8th rounder, and they'd still have more to work with than they would with giguere. Burke won a cup, with the ducks. He also may have shaped the canucks, but with the way they were headed, any person following the path could've done the same things as burke.

The eighth round doesn't exist anymore.

 

And a 7th round pick is not better then a former vezina winning goaltender, sorry.

The canucks are headed where they were precisely because burke is good at what he does.

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"It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti

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A 7th rounder and 6mil in cap space is worth more than giguere, as they can be used to get what toronto currently needs (those being better forwards).

Firstly - I've already said the cap space is irrelevant as TO has cap space to burn.

 

And giguere is worth far more than a seventh round draft pick. That would be idiotic of Anaheim to trade him for that.

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"It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti

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