Ancient Curses: Sap and Leech

[Wkw]

Leeches DON'T effect defense.

 

There is sap warrior (atk, str, def), sap magic (magic, def) and sap ranger (range, def) that start at 10 and go up to 20%. They give you no bonus

 

There is leech attack, leech strength, leech defense, leech magic, and leech range, which boost you 5%-10% and lower your enemy 10%-25%, with a higher drain rate

 

Sap warrior is nearly equal to leech attack, str, def, and it is better, because you have one prayer on instead of three, and the drain rate for sap is much lower then for three leech.

[Kalafai]

Tsk. You miss the value of that extra 5% defence. You'll hit nearly 10% more often on high defencery objects.

[siim]

Ever since I got 95 prayer, I have been on the curse book, and I must say that it really helps. For an example at arma, with the prayers I could manage 12 solo kills (using eagle and steel), now with leech def and leech range I can manage 15 kills. It's just that Kree + all 3 minis are drained 25% of their def and that it is very helpful.

 

Also turmoil is better than piety because it drains slower.

[stonewall337]

Sap/leech are BETTER then turmoil or piety at most places...

 

Think of it this way. For the past three days I have been owning the dag kings. I only have 80 prayer. I can kill supreme taking pretty much no damage with sap range on. This effects Prime, too, but he has no range to sap. Sap also effects defense. After I kill supreme, prime's defense is obliderated and I can range him with broad bolts IN FULL BANDOS!

Using piety would just let me hit more on supreme.

Using turmoil, would, like piety, just boost my melee. I'd gain no extra boost because prime or sumpreme don't have atk and str to steal from

 

Now, how would YOU know which is better, when you have never tested turmoil? Hmm?

[Wkw]

Because turmoil just raises your bonuses, and that is just your ASD bonuses. Useless for range and mage

[JoeDaStudd]

Because turmoil just raises your bonuses, and that is just your ASD bonuses. Useless for range and mage

Without you test it how do you know they don't have melee stats?

Primes monster examine max hit is in the 30's however his real max is in the 60's, which means that monster examine is only taking into account a style he doesn't use. IE melee or range.

 

 

In theory leech/sap defense is the same or better then 10% attack, so you only lose the 10% strength bonus with the new curses.

I'll try tanking black demons with sap warrior and see how I go.

[Wkw]

Monster examine only accounts for melee attacks..but still, if you were a hybrid at the kings, turmoil = USELESS because you would only max out the def boost, not atk or str, unless you decided to try and kill Rex

 

For anything that can't melee or that you aren't meleeing, sap/leech is better for turmoil

For anything that can melee and that you are meleeing, turmiol is better.

[TheAncient]

You're brilliant, sseli. Where do you go to school?

 

hah you're funny :)

 

Anyway on topic, note that leech defense >> sap ranger / mage / melee

 

Why?

I believe it takes shorter for leech defense's full effect ( 10% --> 25% ) to kick in. Sap ranger / mage / melee reduce defense and another skill in an alternating fashion, but leech defense reduces defense only.

[darkpoet837]

You're brilliant, sseli. Where do you go to school?

 

hah you're funny :)

 

Anyway on topic, note that leech defense >> sap ranger / mage / melee

 

Why?

I believe it takes shorter for leech defense's full effect ( 10% --> 25% ) to kick in. Sap ranger / mage / melee reduce defense and another skill in an alternating fashion, but leech defense reduces defense only.

 

Except that if you are using mage or range against them, their mage/range stat provides some defense as well. So while leech is better on a pure defense level basis, sap prayers drain both defensive sides of that class. Meaning, the real drain to defense is somewhere around 40% rather than 20% like it says, and the 25% drain of leech prayers are indeed less than this.

[TheAncient]

You're brilliant, sseli. Where do you go to school?

 

hah you're funny :)

 

Anyway on topic, note that leech defense >> sap ranger / mage / melee

 

Why?

I believe it takes shorter for leech defense's full effect ( 10% --> 25% ) to kick in. Sap ranger / mage / melee reduce defense and another skill in an alternating fashion, but leech defense reduces defense only.

 

Except that if you are using mage or range against them, their mage/range stat provides some defense as well. So while leech is better on a pure defense level basis, sap prayers drain both defensive sides of that class. Meaning, the real drain to defense is somewhere around 40% rather than 20% like it says, and the 25% drain of leech prayers are indeed less than this.

 

I've read somewhere that for mage and range defense, it's 70% Defense level and 30% mage or range level. Plus leech defense has a lower drain rate so if you want you can also add leech range or leech mage.

[i_D_r]

What I love about curses is they've added something to rs that it lacked compared to other games- what gear to use, prayers, etc. has been so predictable. But curses really is a case by case sorta thing. For myself (as well as most of you) we have tons of questions that aren't easily going to be answered.

[Wkw]

Range level has nothing to do with your range defense. That depends on your def lvl and your armor.

 

Magic is the only skill that, in comjunction with defense, effects your defense to magic.

[bedman]

I used leech str on my gargoyle task and my str boost was permanently 9-10%, and it didn't seem to drain much faster than 10% str from normal spellbook. So no, curses ARE useful for slaying too, especially since a lot of people start to slay with turmoil (even moreso now maybe with the new cape).

[Robert_R]

Leeches DON'T effect defense.

 

There is sap warrior (atk, str, def), sap magic (magic, def) and sap ranger (range, def) that start at 10 and go up to 20%. They give you no bonus

 

There is leech attack, leech strength, leech defense, leech magic, and leech range, which boost you 5%-10% and lower your enemy 10%-25%, with a higher drain rate

 

Sap warrior is nearly equal to leech attack, str, def, and it is better, because you have one prayer on instead of three, and the drain rate for sap is much lower then for three leech.

Slower drain rate and the convenience of only having to turn one prayer on doesn't make it better it just makes it easier to use. Unless you're definition of better is which is easiest to use and lasts longer. Sap prayers are, in terms of bonuses, worse than leech. Not to mention sap warrior randomly drains one of the 3 stats so there's no way to tell if you're draining just defence as opposed to using leech defence to make the monster easier to hit for things like range.

 

I used leech str on my gargoyle task and my str boost was permanently 9-10%, and it didn't seem to drain much faster than 10% str from normal spellbook. So no, curses ARE useful for slaying too, especially since a lot of people start to slay with turmoil (even moreso now maybe with the new cape).

Slaying with turmoil is ftw :) I actually started to slay a little bit again, I don't like the skill too much, because I wanted to use turmoil. Tbh soul split is my favorite prayer for slaying because it allows you to use a fighting familiar(even though there really aren't that many good ones at my level) and not worry about food on tasks in multi combat areas.

[Wkw]

Sorry, but the bump, but I've been killing Supreme for like, the past week.

I've been in Bandos top and bottom, v helm, d boots, barrow gloves, and ardy cape 3. Weapons I used were balmung and d hally spec.

 

I did about 200 kills and for the style that I kill, I prefer to use sap ranger on all the time, the drain rate isn't that big. Supreme doesn't hit often, and neither do the range spinos.

 

However I've gotten a dag task (woot) so, OFC I am going to do it on the kings. I decide to compare it to piety and PIETY SUCKS. The drain rate is huge, and I can't kill prime as fast without lowering his defense.

 

So, in short, if you are 80+ prayer, curses are 105% better then prayer. Because, yes, I did hit higher on supreme with piety, I did not hit as much. And hitting 45 45 is better then hitting 65 0

[warren211]

In I don't want to turn this thread into a Nomad efficiency discussion, but I'm just going to mention that I found the leech prayers very useful at Nomad. Since I was using brew-restores, I had a pretty much infinite prayer supply throughout the fight, so I was able to use all the leech spells along with the prayer that increases duration of boosted stats (just to keep my def at maximum for longest) and a deflect prayer. Yes, I know the deflect prayers don't reduce damage to you, but rumor has it that it occasionally does 1s to Nomad when he does lots of damage to you with normal hits. So I figured I'd do it anyway, I mean its not like my prayer was at risk of going down. Since I was using sgs, the leech def made up for my lack of bgs spec. So in the end, I think the leech prayers were a much better choice than piety.

 

Plus, another good thing about the leeches is that you can simultaneously leech range, mage, and melee stats. Unlike piety or the range/mage prayers in regular prayerbook which only can boost 1 stat at a time, the leeches boosted my range for better hand cannon hits, my mage for better magic def, and leech defence was of course the savior to the curses by increasing my def and killing his.

[Punitive_D]

In I don't want to turn this thread into a Nomad efficiency discussion, but I'm just going to mention that I found the leech prayers very useful at Nomad. Since I was using brew-restores, I had a pretty much infinite prayer supply throughout the fight, so I was able to use all the leech spells along with the prayer that increases duration of boosted stats (just to keep my def at maximum for longest) and a deflect prayer. Yes, I know the deflect prayers don't reduce damage to you, but rumor has it that it occasionally does 1s to Nomad when he does lots of damage to you with normal hits. So I figured I'd do it anyway, I mean its not like my prayer was at risk of going down. Since I was using sgs, the leech def made up for my lack of bgs spec. So in the end, I think the leech prayers were a much better choice than piety.

 

Plus, another good thing about the leeches is that you can simultaneously leech range, mage, and melee stats. Unlike piety or the range/mage prayers in regular prayerbook which only can boost 1 stat at a time, the leeches boosted my range for better hand cannon hits, my mage for better magic def, and leech defence was of course the savior to the curses by increasing my def and killing his.

 

You talk of using leech defense instead of bgs. Wouldn't it be better to use both?