Ancient Curses: Sap and Leech

[TheAncient]

Turmoil and Soul Split have been the main area of attention for the Ancient curses. However, not all of us have 95 prayer, and many consider the Curse prayerbook to be useless without Turmoil and Soul Split. However, I think it's worth taking another look at the Sap and Leech curses.

 

The main drawback behind switching to the Curse prayerbook is the loss of 5% and 10% boost prayers; however, these are mainly meant for low-intensity combat such as slaying or training. In this area, the normal prayer book is much better than Curses. This is out of our discussion.

 

The Sap and Leech curses are designed for intense combat situations, such as against bosses or in PvP, since the strength of these prayers relies on the power of the opponent. Therefore, we should really only compare the curses to normal prayers in these high intensity combat situations.

 

Here's a summary of my comparison between the two prayerbooks:

 

Ancient Curses (Sap and Leech only):

-- Mainly for bosses; Sap and Leech aren't too good in melee PvP

-- Can use prayers to counter all corners of the combat triangle simultaneously

-- Are significantly better against bosses (?)

-- Berserker works well with extreme potions

-- Better for hybrids since you can cover more sides of the combat triangle

-- Better for mages since your curse effects can affect multiple opponents at once

-- Better for mages since 15% mage prayer only affects accuracy and not damage

 

Normal Prayers:

-- Comparatively lower drain rate for the same effect

-- Better for rangers (eagle eye is better than any Curse for rangers)

 

Do you use Sap/Leech? Why? And in what situations?

[J35u5_M4]

I'd still keep the curses, I don't do a lot of PvP so I don't need normal prayers for this, and all I do that requires prayer is boss hunting and barrows, where curses work perfectly fine :3

[TheAncient]

I'd still keep the curses, I don't do a lot of PvP so I don't need normal prayers for this, and all I do that requires prayer is boss hunting and barrows, where curses work perfectly fine :3

 

I can't imagine using curses at barrows -- which do you use?

[Robert_R]

I've used leech defence at the corp in a clan of about 8 people because I see no point in turmoil with that large of a group and leech defence really does help.

[iusetitans]

Turmoil and Soul Split have been the main area of attention for the Ancient curses. However, not all of us have 95 prayer, and many consider the Curse prayerbook to be useless without Turmoil and Soul Split. However, I think it's worth taking another look at the Sap and Leech curses.

 

The main drawback behind switching to the Curse prayerbook is the loss of 5% and 10% boost prayers; however, these are mainly meant for low-intensity combat such as slaying or training. In this area, the normal prayer book is much better than Curses. This is out of our discussion.

 

The Sap and Leech curses are designed for intense combat situations, such as against bosses or in PvP, since the strength of these prayers relies on the power of the opponent. Therefore, we should really only compare the curses to normal prayers in these high intensity combat situations.

 

Here's a summary of my comparison between the two prayerbooks:

 

Ancient Curses (Sap and Leech only):

-- Mainly for bosses; Sap and Leech aren't too good in melee PvP

-- Can use prayers to counter all corners of the combat triangle simultaneously

-- Are significantly better against bosses (?)

-- Berserker works well with extreme potions

-- Better for hybrids since you can cover more sides of the combat triangle

-- Better for mages since your curse effects can affect multiple opponents at once

-- Better for mages since 15% mage prayer only affects accuracy and not damage

 

Normal Prayers:

-- Comparatively lower drain rate for the same effect

-- Better for rangers (eagle eye is better than any Curse for rangers)

 

Do you use Sap/Leech? Why? And in what situations?

 

 

sap and leeches are bad for ranges and mages

 

+15% bonus drops to 5%(or 10% over time)

 

you say it's good for hybriding as you can have them active simultainiously but a good hybrid can switch between eagle eye and mystic might between switching anyway so it really makes you worst off

[SanNo1]

I'd still keep the curses, I don't do a lot of PvP so I don't need normal prayers for this, and all I do that requires prayer is boss hunting and barrows, where curses work perfectly fine :3

 

I can't imagine using curses at barrows -- which do you use?

I guess he uses the deflect prayers.

 

I'm using the normal prayer book atm, because i slay a lot and I find the +10% prayer more worthwile, and I can't be bothered raising my prayer lvl to 82 atm, but I will raise it in the near future and probably keep the regular book for slaying purposes. I might change it once in a while for boss hunting though now that I think of it, but only if this thread proves it's better to leech then to piety when neccessary ;)

[J35u5_M4]

I'd still keep the curses, I don't do a lot of PvP so I don't need normal prayers for this, and all I do that requires prayer is boss hunting and barrows, where curses work perfectly fine :3

 

I can't imagine using curses at barrows -- which do you use?

I guess he uses the deflect prayers.

 

I'm using the normal prayer book atm, because i slay a lot and I find the +10% prayer more worthwile, and I can't be bothered raising my prayer lvl to 82 atm, but I will raise it in the near future and probably keep the regular book for slaying purposes. I might change it once in a while for boss hunting though now that I think of it, but only if this thread proves it's better to leech then to piety when neccessary ;)

 

Well I use Soul Split and Turmoil, sometimes when I'm hitting only 0s, I flash Leech Def and it helps a bit :3

[TheAncient]

sap and leeches are bad for ranges and mages

 

+15% bonus drops to 5%(or 10% over time)

 

you say it's good for hybriding as you can have them active simultainiously but a good hybrid can switch between eagle eye and mystic might between switching anyway so it really makes you worst off

 

For pure mages: +5-10% mage/-10-20% defense/-10-20% mage is much better than +15% mage

For pure rangers: yes, eagle eye is much better, because it affects damage

 

For hybrids (1v1), curses are better. You'll have time to have the curses reach their full effects - in this case, I think curses > 15% boosts. Yes, a good hybrid can switch between prayers, but even so, it takes up APM / tempo / attention that could be used for switching prot prays or attacks

For hybrids (multi), curses are worse, cause you lack the 15% defense prayer / piety -- which is pretty important for tanking

[iusetitans]

sap and leeches are bad for ranges and mages

 

+15% bonus drops to 5%(or 10% over time)

 

you say it's good for hybriding as you can have them active simultainiously but a good hybrid can switch between eagle eye and mystic might between switching anyway so it really makes you worst off

 

For pure mages: +5-10% mage/-10-20% defense/-10-20% mage is much better than +15% mage

For pure rangers: yes, eagle eye is much better, because it affects damage

 

For hybrids: even if you switch prayers perfectly, it still takes up APM (actions per minute, aka attention) that you could have used to heal or switch.

 

healing will cause hit delay unlike item and pray switching but in the time between hits a hybrid can switch all their gear and prayer

[TheAncient]

sap and leeches are bad for ranges and mages

 

+15% bonus drops to 5%(or 10% over time)

 

you say it's good for hybriding as you can have them active simultainiously but a good hybrid can switch between eagle eye and mystic might between switching anyway so it really makes you worst off

 

For pure mages: +5-10% mage/-10-20% defense/-10-20% mage is much better than +15% mage

For pure rangers: yes, eagle eye is much better, because it affects damage

 

For hybrids: even if you switch prayers perfectly, it still takes up APM (actions per minute, aka attention) that you could have used to heal or switch.

 

healing will cause hit delay unlike item and pray switching but in the time between hits a hybrid can switch all their gear and prayer

 

Not if you use uni's or titans. Plus you can repot with that tempo if you really wanted to

 

And no, I have plenty of combat experience and it's nearly impossible to eat, switch top, bottom, weapon, protection prayer, offense prayer, and then attack enemy all in one tempo.

[iusetitans]

sap and leeches are bad for ranges and mages

 

+15% bonus drops to 5%(or 10% over time)

 

you say it's good for hybriding as you can have them active simultainiously but a good hybrid can switch between eagle eye and mystic might between switching anyway so it really makes you worst off

 

For pure mages: +5-10% mage/-10-20% defense/-10-20% mage is much better than +15% mage

For pure rangers: yes, eagle eye is much better, because it affects damage

 

For hybrids: even if you switch prayers perfectly, it still takes up APM (actions per minute, aka attention) that you could have used to heal or switch.

 

healing will cause hit delay unlike item and pray switching but in the time between hits a hybrid can switch all their gear and prayer

 

Not if you use uni's or titans. Plus you can repot with that tempo if you really wanted to

 

And no, I have plenty of combat experience and it's nearly impossible to eat, switch top, bottom, weapon, protection prayer, offense prayer, and then attack enemy all in one tempo.

 

unis and titans lol? inferior to pack yaks and the millions of players without summoning wouldn't use them

 

and not with hot keys

[Cantristenon]

Leech def+magic+range for solo armadyl, sap mage or some combo of previous for armadyl with teams. Leech range is worse than normal prayer book boost prayers but deflection damage makes it up imo at least.

 

Leech att+str+def+magic for corporeal beast.

 

Leech defence + range for solo sara.

 

The main important thing with leeches with teams is that only 1 person in team needs to use them since their effects don't stack. Although it's possible to share different leeches for different persons at arma, for example.

[SanNo1]

I'd still keep the curses, I don't do a lot of PvP so I don't need normal prayers for this, and all I do that requires prayer is boss hunting and barrows, where curses work perfectly fine :3

 

I can't imagine using curses at barrows -- which do you use?

I guess he uses the deflect prayers.

 

I'm using the normal prayer book atm, because i slay a lot and I find the +10% prayer more worthwile, and I can't be bothered raising my prayer lvl to 82 atm, but I will raise it in the near future and probably keep the regular book for slaying purposes. I might change it once in a while for boss hunting though now that I think of it, but only if this thread proves it's better to leech then to piety when neccessary ;)

 

Well I use Soul Split and Turmoil, sometimes when I'm hitting only 0s, I flash Leech Def and it helps a bit :3

Ah I see. I guessed the deflect prayers because initially wanted to discuss curses for people who can't use those two :P. My bad :oops:. Pretty obvious to keep the new prayer book if you got 95+ prayer :P...

[Wkw]

Sap/leech are BETTER then turmoil or piety at most places...

 

Think of it this way. For the past three days I have been owning the dag kings. I only have 80 prayer. I can kill supreme taking pretty much no damage with sap range on. This effects Prime, too, but he has no range to sap. Sap also effects defense. After I kill supreme, prime's defense is obliderated and I can range him with broad bolts IN FULL BANDOS!

Using piety would just let me hit more on supreme.

Using turmoil, would, like piety, just boost my melee. I'd gain no extra boost because prime or sumpreme don't have atk and str to steal from

[Da_Latios]

Unless your attack style is something other than melee, use turmoil.

 

That's my bottom line.

[Wkw]

Waterfiends. You can turmoil all you want, but you won't get the extra boost because they lack atk and str lvls

[Robert_R]

Waterfiends. You can turmoil all you want, but you won't get the extra boost because they lack atk and str lvls

You do get extra boost just not as much as if the other player/monster has 99 att/str. Either way at waterfiends it's still a higher boost than piety.

[TheAncient]

Waterfiends. You can turmoil all you want, but you won't get the extra boost because they lack atk and str lvls

You do get extra boost just not as much as if the other player/monster has 99 att/str. Either way at waterfiends it's still a higher boost than piety.

 

I think wf has 1 attack 1 strength, so turmoil is worse there.

[Kalafai]

Leech defence is my goal, right now I'm just sapping, and it's doing better than ultimate strength/attack/eagal eye ever did. Defense is important to the things I fight, so even nudging that down just a bit with sap makes me hit like I'm wearing an attack cape.

[Aneron]

Waterfiends. You can turmoil all you want, but you won't get the extra boost because they lack atk and str lvls

You do get extra boost just not as much as if the other player/monster has 99 att/str. Either way at waterfiends it's still a higher boost than piety.

 

I think wf has 1 attack 1 strength, so turmoil is worse there.

 

turmoil is worse than piety against 1 att/str things lol, but I use it anyways cos i cba getting off and waterfiends dont have all that much def anyways (att is the only thing that is worse).

 

leech is very effective with large teams against bosses because it helps everyone. I only really use normals for tds because you cant switch to turmoil quickly and curses lack an effective range booster. i just use turmoil for every slayer task now L

[Amundogus2]

Like kalafai said, curses arent out of discussion for slaying and such. I am also going for 80 prayer so I can get leech defence. The drain rate isnt bad at all.

[Wkw]

I find that one sap (depending on the monster) are much better then leech defense. Because sap has a higher max for def drain (25% instead of 20) AND it drains your opponents combat ability. I find that I am able to hit more on my opponet with sap on then with leech def/something else. And the drain rate is lower, too

[UserOnRS]

I find that one sap (depending on the monster) are much better then leech defense. Because sap has a higher max for def drain (25% instead of 20) AND it drains your opponents combat ability. I find that I am able to hit more on my opponet with sap on then with leech def/something else. And the drain rate is lower, too

Leech has a higher drain % and increses your stat too. :blink: The only thing you're right about is that the drain rate is lower.

[Wkw]

lower drain rate + higher stat drain > higher drain rate + lower stat drain + small stat boost

[la la la]

You're brilliant, sseli. Where do you go to school?

 

On topic, I agree with bobthesock. Leeches are better in teams because they affect defence, making combat easier for everyone. Unless you are 95 prayer or above, piety is arguably better due to its attack and strength boosts. The higher the defence of the boss, the better an argument for ancients.